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stellarshnap
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Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious
#19009286 - 10/21/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Have you ever experienced coincidences that were so perfect it seemed completely impossible for them to be simply coincidence? Have those perfect coincidences happened with such a frequency that you began to see them as more than coincidences? As syncronicities? Have these syncronicities opened your mind to the idea that there is A WHOLE LOT MORE to the universe then we could ever possibly imagine? Perhaps that your mind has a mind of its own?
This has happened to me a whole awful lot, and the most recent one has made me really question the way I view the universe, and my place in it. Of course this experience was under the influence of LSD, the best way to undermine any theory. Nonetheless I'd like to share it. I was on two hits of some real potent L, and was faced with the decision of what to do with my life. I considered being a nurse, helping people. It seemed like a great idea, I felt I would be happy in such a field, plus the money is decent. But then something popped into my head, "it takes true courage to go against the flow". I was very conflicted while making the decision of being "the courage" or "the help" (what I labeled the two paths I was considering). I felt like choosing the help, and admitting my lack of true courage, was something to be ashamed of. So I leaned toward the courage, but I thought about my actions, and what they reflected of me. So I leaned toward the help. Then I remembered who I was when I was a child, courageous as can be, and I felt that was still somewhere inside of me, so I leaned towards the courage. While I was in this game of back and forth my sober friend who was in another room watching tv, unaware that I was tripping, called me over. He showed me this performance of two men in blue glow suits acting out the idea of "two halves of the whole". (Half the suit glows, half is black). It hit me immediately, "IS THE UNIVERSE TALKING TO ME!?". "How could it be that at this moment, as I am on acid, conflicted between two paths, this performance comes on demonstrating that both halves are necessary for the whole, that neither decision is better than the other?"
The decision I made isn't important, but still this blows my mind. Was it purely a coincidence that was just that perfect? Just like every other extraordinarily perfect coincidence I've encountered under the influence of psychedelics? Or was it something more?
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
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cheeshcat
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
#19010212 - 10/21/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nothing is a coincidence my dear
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap] 1
#19010240 - 10/21/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Have you ever experienced coincidences that were so perfect it seemed completely impossible for them to be simply coincidence?
No, because I understand probability and the fact that there are trillions upon trillions of events every single day happening to billions of people and some are bound to overlap. Stay on the North Pole alone for a few months and see how many weird coincidences there are.
Why do mystic-heads ALWAYS fill in their ignorance of how something works with m-a-g-i-c?
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: cheeshcat]
#19010244 - 10/21/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cheeshcat said: Nothing is a coincidence my dear
Flat declarations have very little value.
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stellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#19010273 - 10/21/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's why I was asking OC, I wanted to make sure it was as unjustified a claim as I thought it was. I did however find a way to interpret the experience through symbolism and psychology. Learned some things about myself so that's good
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
#19010315 - 10/21/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's fine, but as I repeatedly point out to others who hold the mystical view of synchronicity - there is no way to empirically test the hypothesis. It is 100% interpretive.
Also worth noting (not making a comment about you), but certain mental illnesses such as schizophrenia cause victims to see connections everywhere and to assign great meaning to them.
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stellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#19010439 - 10/21/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well LSD is known to have effects akin to schizophrenia is it not?
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
#19010452 - 10/21/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do schizophrenics enjoy The Grateful Dead?
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stellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#19010483 - 10/21/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Some do I'm sure.
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
#19010790 - 10/21/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
stellarshnap said: Well LSD is known to have effects akin to schizophrenia is it not? 
Not really.. The psychedelic experience is not akin to schizophrenia.
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You are not special
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stellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
#19011232 - 10/21/13 10:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well... "certain mental illnesses such as schizophrenia cause victims to *see connections everywhere and to assign great meaning to them*". That's a reoccurring quality of psychedelics.
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
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FishOilTheKid
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
#19011313 - 10/21/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Was it purely a coincidence that was just that perfect?
Yes but this is the way it works here.
When it happens with a frequency that allows you to rule out mere coincidence reality is quite magical!
Now I know that the flow of thought perceived by people can be manipulated by disembodied intelligence(s).
Thought insertion actually happens and people can be used as tools to communicate the mystery of the balance.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap] 2
#19011630 - 10/22/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, many, many times. Sometimes, Synchronicity (a modern term for miracle IMO) can blend with magick, when such events are elicited, rather than experienced spontaneously. After 15 years of relationship with my Lady, I decided to marry her. I selected a propitious time, and an equally propitious moment: 11/11/11 @ 11:11:11 AM EST. A witness watched the computer clock. Now, it was at exactly this second, as measured somewhat arbitrarily on this computer, but nevertheless, numerological accurate, that I kissed the bride. BUT, I must preface this story with two events that involve my select subjectivity.
The ritual was brief, and included the statue of Thoth, which is the the 'Tongue of Ra,' or in Christian equivalent concept, the 'word of God.' Thoth is the patron god of magick, writing, and communication, which was translated into the Greek Hermes and Roman Mercury. Thoth is the patron deity of Alchemy, and as a marriage vow, we took turns reading the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus. This brief writing is supposed to encapsulate the essence of spiritual work - the Great Work. At any rate, here is the Synchronicity. When the statue of Thoth arrived in the mail at my front door 7 years earlier, and I went to retrieve it after coming home from work, I saw 5 ibis birds sitting in the tree overlooking my front door. Thoth is the ibis-headed deity of Egypt. I had never seen ibises in my yard, and at the time I had lived here for 9 years. The Synchronicity at that moment astounded me. I am pretty sure that ibises had visited my property before, but I had never witnessed them. Jump 7 years.
On 11/11/11, as my notary public and two friends gathered at my house, one of my friends, unaware of the Synchronicity of 7 years hence, called my attention to the front door. There were 9 ibises pecking at the ground on my front yard. This was the second time I had ever witnessed ibises on my property. The last time was when the statue of the ibis-headed statue of Thoth arrived 7 years earlier! I had arranged alchemical symbols around that statue the night before, and I had in mind the hope for some kind of Synchronistic phenomenon to manifest. The arrangement of symbols to elicit a Synchronicity is magick, yet it is magick of a higher or transcendental variety (theurgy) rather than low magick (thaumaturgy) because the intention was one which sought a condition of Union (Alchemical Marriage) rather than the satiation of a desire. It is a unique instance in my life where magick and mysticism came together. In the language of Analytical Psychology, the coincidence of inner psychic and outer physical congruence is manifest Synchronicity. I define this with a certain amount of authority in this matter, having spent 8 years in analysis with 3 Zurich-trained Jungian analysts, 100 hours of Jungian seminars by American and European analysts, 40 years of academic and clinical experience, and 40+ years of psychedelic experience in matters Synchronistic.
Either one has the ability to connect the dots and see the pattern in situations like these, or not. Those whose Intuitive function is their "Inferior Function" will be biased towards Sensate perception, and will by corollary be biased exclusively towards cause-effect processes, failing to perceive "acausal" processes. One must be able to tread lightly while walking the path of Intuition in order to see and appreciate these things that are as Jung described as Synchronicity, namely, "An Acausal Connecting Principle." This is a 'Rainbow Bridge.' Events such as these are like metaphysical stepping stones, spread far apart in time, yet they highlight a path through one's life, like connecting the dots on a child's puzzle.

Sir Isaac Newton's translation of The Emerald Tablet found among his alchemical papers that are currently housed in King's College Library, Cambridge University:
Tis true without lying, certain & most true. That which is below is like that which is above & that which is above is like that which is below to do the miracles of one only thing And as all things have been & arose from one by the mediation of one: so all things have their birth from this one thing by adaptation. The Sun is its father, the Moon its mother, the wind hath carried it in its belly, the earth is its nurse. The father of all perfection in the whole world is here. Its force or power is entire if it be converted into earth. Separate thou the earth from the fire, the subtile from the gross sweetly with great indoustry. It ascends from the earth to the heaven & again it descends to the earth & receives the force of things superior & inferior. By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world & thereby all obscurity shall fly from you. Its force is above all force. For it vanquishes every subtile thing & penetrates every solid thing. So was the world created. From this are & do come admirable adaptations whereof the means (or process) is here in this. Hence I am called Hermes Trismegistus, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world That which I have said of the operation of the Sun is accomplished & ended.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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stellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#19012514 - 10/22/13 08:17 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's interesting Markos. I've been analyzing my experience in a more logical way and I've found a more comprehensible way to look at it. The two halves which I was conflicted in choosing between, are two halves of the same whole, the whole being me. During the experience I thought I had to choose between them, in retrospect I found that I need to become the whole, not just a part of it. Not only do I have to rediscover and solidify the courage I have lost through the tumultuous years of puberty, but also follow the path I seem to have chosen for myself, which is helping people, in other words I think I've decided to be a nurse. The experience seemed to be an opportunity to bridge the gap between my perceived self and my real self. In other words become the person I want to be. Honestly seeing the experience in this light makes it seem all the more profound. Psychedelics in conjunction with the symbolistic nature of the human mind is truly incredible 
In terms of synchronicity and the universes self awareness, I have no way to prove that it was anything more than a coincidence, so I'll look at it as such, for the sake of killing my own ignorance. As long as I do what I feel I need to do, I don't think it's such a big problem.
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
#19012990 - 10/22/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Of course it's a coincidence - a meaningful coincidence, which enjoins the inner subjective and outer objective poles of experience. You are now talking about a purely subjective response to a possible coincidence, a decision you intend to make. That is all well and good, but then you are moving away from a understanding that enjoins a cosmic process and are taking about something called congruence, by psychologist Carl Rogers, which is to say, decreasing the dissonance between your actual self and your ideal self. With regard to Synchronicity, read this brief but fascinating account that Sinologist Richard Wilhelm (translator of the I Ching, the Chinese Book of Changes) wrote. His observations reified Jung's observations.
http://www.ralphmag.org/BN/why.html
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion] 1
#19013194 - 10/22/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: That's fine, but as I repeatedly point out to others who hold the mystical view of synchronicity - there is no way to empirically test the hypothesis. It is 100% interpretive.
Also worth noting (not making a comment about you), but certain mental illnesses such as schizophrenia cause victims to see connections everywhere and to assign great meaning to them.
It is true that Synchronicity cannot be proved for the obvious reason that it is defined as "An Acausal Connecting Principle." We've both had this discussion before on these forums. Coming from a science background initially, I regard the Scientific Method as the most straightfoward, logical means to prove causation. However, as I came to experience anomalous behaviors deemed parapsychological, and paranormal (I differentiate), I could not devise any controlled experiments to prove that an undefined phenomenon existed. I mean, when I had "ring-like-a-bell-in-the-head" telepathy (Gertrude Schmeidler's expression), the people whose thoughts I perceived without benefit of my aural sensory organs, were horrified! Their jaws dropped. They stammered out something like "I didn't SAY that, I THOUGHT that!" I can't prove that even if those people reified the story.
Similarly, when my ex-wife, me, and our sheep dog, Pandy, all saw a grey oblong 'object' suddenly appear and glide under the table in the darkened dining room, (Pandy put her head up and tilted it like dogs do), I jumped up, interpreting a tailless rodent, perhaps a shrew (I never saw a shrew in Miami). What else could it have been, rationally speaking about a visual perception that two humans and a canine responded to? Lights were turned on, flashlights brought out, the opposite direction from where we all sat was thoroughly explored. No errant car light from outside yielded any illusions. Over the years in my current house, with my second wife, we have also seen momentary gray forms, usually where the grandfather clock stands. I may be a "mystic-head" to you, but I assure you that I do not suffer from visual hallucinations, spurious interpretations, or an over-active imagination (whatever that is). I AM however, familiar with a good deal of mythical, magickal, folklorist, and occult literature that I take seriously insofar as these themes have endured for centuries at times, and which may be accounts of similar anomalous phenomena - "glitches in the Matrix" so-so-speak. I approach with the only mental tool that one can use - Phenomenology. It requires a solid confidence in the clarity of one's perception.I don't go in for the pendulums and modern electronic electroscopes of ghost hunters I have, however, considered paying to take a ghost tour of the Deering Estate in Coconut Grove, FL, just to see if I can learn anything from people who ARE convinced of the existence of ghosts. If duppies appear as opaque, physical phenomena, ghosts only manifest translucently at best, according to reports.
My wife is an INTP personality like myself, so we are very Intuitive, and this function seems to be the avenue that allows for psychic experiences, which is to say, phenomena appearing in consciousness, but seemingly bypassing the sensory apparatus. When my wife left London at age 6 and went to live with her grandmother in Jamaica, she saw on more than one occasion, a top-hatted, tall man, wearing a coat with tails and a high upturned collar (so his face was hidden), suddenly climb out of a mango tree next to the veranda on which she played. The man walked past her and into the house, where he promptly vanished. When she told her grandmother, the response was, "Oh child, you have new eyes," which meant that a child, whose mind was as yet not biased and filled with notions of the impossible, she could still perceive some of the non-physical events that island people have been calling duppies for generations. There is a similarity in appearance with the L'wa Baron Samedi in Haitian Vodun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Samedi My wife is pre-eminently sane. I would stake my reputation on it as a mental health professional. She is a Cornell graduate (also admitted to Princeton and U. of Pennsylvania), and is extremely logical as well as intelligent. There is nothing flakey about her personality. These are simply reports of paranormal, or parapsychological experiences, not an attempt to 'prove' or convince anyone. Only such subjectively experienced events are convincing, and they open one up to the possibility of other reported things. I did not have faith in things other people have seen and reported on, until I had a few scientifically inexplicable events myself.
I'd like to illustrate that my use of the Scientific Method goes back to age 10, but I only have pics of my home lab from 1967 (9th grade) and 1971 (12th grade), when I left for college to study microbiology. Of course, LSD changed everything, and I turned the object of my studies to mind instead of microbiology. Just sayin' - with pictures.

-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/22/13 11:39 AM)
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stellarshnap
Poet who doesn't know it


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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#19013220 - 10/22/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well if synchronicity is brought about by being synchronous with yourself, you don't really need to understand the cosmic process, rather what you are doing to affect it.
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap] 1
#19013338 - 10/22/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
stellarshnap said: Well if synchronicity is brought about by being synchronous with yourself, you don't really need to understand the cosmic process, rather what you are doing to affect it.
But you see, it is paradoxical. The subjective self or ego is not causative. A kind of realization, or making real of inner harmony, serves as a kind of 'seed crystal' to local space-time, not will-power. When you grow crystals, you evaporate a salt solution until you can recover one crystal that is well-defined enough to tie a thread around. Then you hang it in a supersaturated solution of whatever salt you're using, and its intrinsic harmony catalyzes the growth of a larger and larger crystal around itself, manifesting the same internal structure of the tiny seed crystal. This metaphor suggests The Way things apparently work with the more complex harmonies of nature, as in the atmospheric condition described in The Rain Maker. But the psychic fabric of the people were also an intrinsic part of local space-time. The people themselves were out of harmony with The Way (Tao) things were supposed to be optimally. The Rain Maker was the seed crystal in the process of re-establishing local harmony.
All summer I was beside myself with loss of my job of 27 years. I was forced, against my ego, into early retirement. My swimming pool turned progressively greener, unlike anything I've ever seen in 17 years of living here. No matter how many chemicals, algaecides, powdered shock I added, I could not clear the water. I spent a fortune on line and in two different pool stores. Not until my emotions began to settle, my freak-out panic subsided, and my mind began to clear, did my pool water begin to clear. As they always said in the TV show Ripley's Believe It Or Not, "Believe it, or not!"
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#19014085 - 10/22/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is a state of mind that will make every moment a synchronistic event. It's a little bit of an unconsciousness, "taking your eye off the ball" (McKenna), and then it starts to go wild.
I think it is subjective proof for the individual that we exist inside a meaningful mental construct of some kind. It also makes obvious that your brain is able to tap into it, tune into its different frequencies.
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LSD and mushrooms / ie. psychedelics have nothing to do with schizophrenia. This idea fell out of favor long ago among academia and I am willing to bet as the research process is legalised again into these compounds we'll find they do not incite schizophrenic brain chemistry and cognition, but take on a whole world of their own that may be a harmless place for a schizophrenic to roam.
Mushrooms are a kind of game, playful, little divine, beautiful world. It's a higher dimensional perspective of your ordinary reality. I don't know what LSD is because my one chance at trying it was blocked by Abilify, but being a similar molecule I can only guess it's similar.
There is always a plottedness to any trip. It's always the perfect, right moment, it's where you were meant to be, it's clearly meant to be part of human psychic life, to trip.
It's cannabis that is going to be the chemical unlocker of latent schizophrenia.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: circastes]
#19016735 - 10/22/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Psychedelics including cannabis can lower the ego defenses that have suppressed schizophrenic symptoms. I warned one young student many years ago, whom I and an independent clinician diagnosed as Schizophrenic, Paranoid Type, to assiduously avoid LSD. He didn't listen and precipitated a psychotic break. He fired a shotgun off in a relative's store, and was jailed. He's been living on the streets for years. Cannabis was responsible for triggering panic attacks in a friend's son whom I spoke with recently. Some literature does say that cannabis can trigger psychotic breaks too. These conditions already exist latently, but once ego defenses are dissolved, they break through into consciousness.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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PocketLady



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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#19017572 - 10/23/13 04:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Coming from a science background initially, I regard the Scientific Method as the most straightfoward, logical means to prove causation. However, as I came to experience anomalous behaviors deemed parapsychological, and paranormal (I differentiate), I could not devise any controlled experiments to prove that an undefined phenomenon existed. I mean, when I had "ring-like-a-bell-in-the-head" telepathy (Gertrude Schmeidler's expression), the people whose thoughts I perceived without benefit of my aural sensory organs, were horrified! Their jaws dropped. They stammered out something like "I didn't SAY that, I THOUGHT that!" I can't prove that even if those people reified the story.
Awesome post Markos. I have struggled for a while with this. I also believe in the scientific method but have had some strange experiences that I know to be true, but that I can never objectively prove. I've spent many an hour questioning my sanity, but always come back to the fact that I am a level-headed, rational, and logical person.
A year or so ago I was experiencing a plethora of synchronistic events and have had MANY experiences that seem to indicate humans can sense and feel each other's feelings without the use of body language. I mention feelings rather than thoughts because I've never experiences a situation where someone has directly read my exact thoughts or vice versa.
I wrote about this phenomenon a few days ago here:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18984800#18984800
When this all started to happen I initially completely denied the experience. For sometimes months at a time I convinced myself that it had just all been in my head, but every time something would happen to remind me that it was actually real. And yet, I can't objectively prove any of it and most likely will never be able to
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Icelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19017698 - 10/23/13 05:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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A year or so ago I was experiencing a plethora of synchronistic events and have had MANY experiences that seem to indicate humans can sense and feel each other's feelings without the use of body language.
How about some examples? Remember what forum you're in.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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PocketLady



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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Icelander]
#19017745 - 10/23/13 06:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There are lots of examples of the latter in the link I posted above. This is definitely not something I can easily explain away.
Regarding actual synchronicity, it seems to be much harder to pin down due to it's very personal nature. Most of my synchronicities have revolved around lessons I've needed to learn in order to make my life better. I am very hesitant to post any here because I am fully aware that what is meaningful to me will almost certainly seem like mere coincidence to anyone else, and I accept and understand that, and hey maybe those people would be right. Subjecting them to scrutiny is pointless as even I'm not sure if they are real or imagined.
The other stuff on the other hand, humans sensing feelings...well it's become very hard for me to write off those experiences.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Icelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19017778 - 10/23/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well I can "sense" feelings over the internet yet I'm wrong almost as much as I'm right. And body language pick up is so subtle you would have to have the person completely out of sight and voice to say it had no effect with any surety.
But my point is that if you are going to talk about it in a forum like this then it should be up for scrutiny. Otherwise PM might be more appropriate.
I went back and looked at (skimmed) your thread and noticed that they all seemed to include the use of drugs which imo likely invalidates any of your findings. I say this from my 40+ years of using and studying drug experience.
What experiences do you have that are as similar or intense in completely sober states of consciousness?
What one thinks they experience on drugged states usually has very little to do with what is going on outside ones own head.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (10/23/13 07:07 AM)
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PocketLady



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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Icelander]
#19017801 - 10/23/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am saying that it's silly to scrutinise stuff that is definitely 100% subjective. Experiences that cannot possibly be shared by anyone else. Stuff I freely admit may be imagined.
My post was a reply to Markos' comment that just because something cannot be scientifically proven, it doesn't make it impossible. I am willing to talk about stuff that can actually be part of a discussion, which is why I wrote a whole essay on it on the link I posted.
Regarding what you are saying about body language...How about being at the back of a packed concert venue with several hundred people between you and the stage, and the people on stage reacting? That cannot possibly be body language imho. I'm talking about sensing feelings, as in physically being able to feel them in your body, a bit like they are your own.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (10/23/13 07:20 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19017817 - 10/23/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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And you are experiencing these things drug free? Tell me yes and then I'll start listening. How do you know they are reacting and did you speak with them later to confirm this? IMO this is all going down in your imagination. In 40+ years of tripping I've imagined so many things I though real at the time I've lost count. None of it was actually happening in this world.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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PocketLady



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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Icelander]
#19017833 - 10/23/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes I have experienced this in a drug-free state, but I will admit it was first brought to my attention the first time I did acid. Acid brought a lot of things to my attention.
The thing is, in order to experience what I am talking about, you need some pretty specific conditions. You need:
1. A group of people who are more aware than your average Joe. 2. You need a substance to heighten that awareness even more (maybe not 100% necessary but helps with number 1). 3. You need everyone to be on the same emotional wavelength so that any change in emotion is obvious. I think it might be better to say that you need people who are "high" or totally in the moment, so that any "drop" caused by a negative emotion is highly noticeable.
The best way I can prove this is to say - Go to a psytrance party on acid, dance your arse off for a bit having a great time, and then think some negative stuff in the middle of the dance floor. Observe what happens. Repeat until satisfied that it's extremely unlikely there is another explanation for your observations.
I have repeated this experiment more times than I can count, always with the same result.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Icelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19017869 - 10/23/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The best way I can prove this is to say - Go to a psytrance party on acid, dance your arse off for a bit having a great time, and then think some negative stuff in the middle of the dance floor. Observe what happens. Repeat until satisfied that it's extremely unlikely there is another explanation for your observations.
Do you really think I haven't tried this in 40+ years of tripping balls. I've spent three weeks (three years) at Burning Man dancing, tripping, going in and out of weird negative thought patterns without once noticing any change in the outside world. Not to mention all the concerts and other festivals i've attended over the years.
I've heard your story from countless friends who eventually abandoned it in the light of day and some time. I've never once seen it pan out. I've stood next to trippers who grab my arm and say excitedly, "look! do you see it now" . But I didn't see shit. 
What you are seeing imo is your mental state super-imposed over the scene and conformation bias among peers.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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PocketLady



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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19017900 - 10/23/13 08:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well what can I say. All of my evidence is completely anecdotal, I know that. I kinda hope what you are saying is true, because tbh all this freaks me out a bit. I don't really like the idea of people being able to feel my feelings...! It's just it's happened to me so many times now. Once or twice, yeah ok, it's all in my head, but we are talking like 7 or 8 4 day festivals over the past 2 years and at least double that amount of gigs/parties. I'm off out to a gig/party on Friday. Ok, so devil's advocate, any suggestions as to how I can prove this isn't real?
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Icelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19017907 - 10/23/13 08:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just start doing this at work or on the street with strangers in a sober state. If it only works around people you empathize with then you can suspect conformation bias. Personally I'm amazed at how good we can read subtle body language but often ignore the information. Canines can even do it better than humans so the studies indicate and sometimes their behaviors seem magical. In the same way that they can smell something that never even comes close to your radar. Once I started studying canine body language I realized they were trying to communicate to me all the time but I was missing all but the most obvious stuff.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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FishOilTheKid
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19018047 - 10/23/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm talking about sensing feelings, as in physically being able to feel them in your body, a bit like they are your own.
I know exactly what you are talking about.
Pychs enhance ESP in my experience too. And, it is possible to breakthrough to a place populated with non-human entities where you will never come back down to your previous baseline state.
But let me suggest that we are like a host to an intelligence that is partial inhabitance guiding us or leading us astray. This force which is a population unto itself is interacting with mankind and orchestrating meaning by way of this synchronicity. They feed off of us and in turn feed us. Most do not hear them when they talk and most do not see them. Like Mckenna was on about - psychedelics are a communication device and a calling card. Psilocybe thrust me into a very direct confrontation with this 'other.'
Like a layer in photoshop they, either from within the body or from another host, do superimpose meaning over the 'image' perceived by the individual by inserting in real time a thought stream that is synched with the visual of external reality. It appears that the people 'out there' are actually communicating willfully. You wouldn't notice that its not just the product of your own thought or supposed interaction because it appears to be.
It is a trick in my case most of the time to gain belief and therefore an inflow. It is a controlled psychosis but an effective method of idea exchange between me and this non-human group of entities. Its an important tool for transferring understanding and one that can be used to create hell by making a real mess of one's sanity and stability and boundaries. The signature look IME is this almost robotic super smooth flowing motion trailing heaven behind with every step.
I do believe that you and others are experiencing something real. I however have my doubts that it is always coming willfully from the person (or animal) that seems to be communicating. They are used to manipulate what you believe in my experience. Having observed this for some time now (the last four years) I feel confident that this^ is all a huge super secret aspect of how our lives come together here on Earth.
The human can be hacked and programmed. We are like agents of information. We matter and the information matters enough for it to be controlled like I describe and you have experienced.
Do you ever confront these people that you are experimenting with? Do you ever talk to them inside the head and hear them talk back in voices either in the mind or from the mouth?
Quote:
Ok, so devil's advocate, any suggestions as to how I can prove this isn't real?
Walk up to them and engage them. Ask them if you can do an experiment. Form pictures or words in the mind, direct them at the person and ask them to report on what they are picking up. Ask them to do the same to you. Often you will find that it seems relatively impossible to actually communicate. So there is another explanation for how this comes together going on behind the scenes where the ideas become conclusions in the mind. There is a purpose for this.
Edited by FishOilTheKid (10/23/13 03:41 PM)
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circastes
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#19019570 - 10/23/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Psychedelics including cannabis can lower the ego defenses that have suppressed schizophrenic symptoms. I warned one young student many years ago, whom I and an independent clinician diagnosed as Schizophrenic, Paranoid Type, to assiduously avoid LSD. He didn't listen and precipitated a psychotic break. He fired a shotgun off in a relative's store, and was jailed. He's been living on the streets for years. Cannabis was responsible for triggering panic attacks in a friend's son whom I spoke with recently. Some literature does say that cannabis can trigger psychotic breaks too. These conditions already exist latently, but once ego defenses are dissolved, they break through into consciousness.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19019697 - 10/23/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, apparently there is emotional as well as cognitive telepathy. One has to be able to rule out subtle physical cues like microexpressions, and body language. On a few occasions, twice on acid, once while waiting for a professor to let us all into class, I 'heard' (for lack of an appropriate word) the voices of people. The acid experience included two different people, both behind me in a tight crowd at a Dead concert. I turned to look both times but these two unrelated guys were facially still, and one of the things I heard was not something that a guy would say out loud. He was a tall, skinny guy and standing in front of him and immediately on my right was a short, muscular mesomorph with his shirt off. I heard, "Wow, look at the build on this guy." I turned around because in 1973, you just wouldn't hear someone say something like that. I took out my little hash pipe and lit it. I then heard another voice from another guy behind me to my left. "How about a hit of that?" I heard. I turned and looked, but all I saw was this guy glaring at me. There were so many people shoulder-to-shoulder, it wasn't opportune to offer my pipe - and have it come back! Outside a statistics class, was this Indian girl named Uma, like Uma Thurman, 'goddess of the dawn.' I found her attractive, but I was in a long-distance engagement. I 'heard' this girl think, with a tone of indignation in her sing-song Indian inflection, as I smiled and passed her by, "Am I not desirable?!" I knew immediately that she did not vocalize that in the midst of a bunch of clustered people.
It took a couple of these experiences to discern the difference between 'hearing' mentally, without the usual enervations of the ear. There is an absence of a sensation we're not usually aware of until it's not there! So, whatever psychophysical interactions you perceived, I for one believe that you experienced what you dismissed as having been all in your head. I have not had more than 7 such experiences in my life. One was slightly different, but I'll not elaborate here. THE most frustrating thing is that most people will not believe you, and may call you a liar. People get angry for different reasons. (1) they may believe me, but haven't experienced a Psi function themselves and would like to, (2) they perceive me as expounding powers, as if I have control over these things, (3) those who have been the subject of whose thoughts I've perceived are alarmed, and become afraid that I'll hear more of their thoughts. Fear creates hate and anger. I think these telepathic events were encapsulated between 1973 and 1980. I've had precognitive dreams since junior high school. No clairvoyance or clairaudience. Definitely no psychokinesis/telekinesis.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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FishOilTheKid
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#19020129 - 10/23/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I witness this everyday.
There are lies to deal with though. They form an orchestrated deception that narrates the supposed telepathic exchanges.
They are basically laughing at the population confusing the shit out of them by feeding them an alternative reality tunnel.
I often have whole conversations with people will remaining completely silent externally. Its exactly as if these entities are telling me what people think but I doubt they are telling the Truth. And often I will act it out with body language and facial expressions while talking in a voice inside the head so if the communication is real they at least see that I'm responding. I risk looking completely insane to the observer if I believe too much. At one point I thought everybody knew exactly what was going on and was keeping it a secret so they wouldn't talk about it out loud because they were instructed not to.
I see them and they climb around on my body creating hell everywhere. Its usually a group of familiar voices. One male and one female most notably.
They can produce color in your visual field by manipulating the image of reality. They use this method of communication to prove their existence and control.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19020363 - 10/23/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I was experiencing a plethora of synchronistic events and have had MANY experiences that seem to indicate humans can sense and feel each other's feelings without the use of body language
What makes you believe that these experiences are not amenable to testing and verification?
--------------------
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: FishOilTheKid]
#19022288 - 10/23/13 10:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, well, I am not describing "entities," nor am I describing paranoid schizophrenic aural hallucinations. I am attempting to describe very isolated events, two close together in space-time, the rest separated by months or years, with the last of 7 events having occurred some 33 years ago. Holding conversations with others, if even possible, would immediately become two people recording these thoughts on paper for comparison. There would be an agreement that pure mental telepathy was occurring, and anyone with the slightest scientific curiosity would surely comply. I can only form conjectures about the condition that you are describing as an everyday phenomenon for you, but that immediately distinguishes your experiences from mine. I remain conversant with the ideas of J. B. Rhine, one of his students, Bob Brier (a former professor of mine), Gertrude Schmeidler, Charles Tart, Rupert Sheldrake, and other serious researchers of Psi functions. I do not believe the stories by Uri Geller, for example, and his alleged UFO induced abilities, including teleportation of physical objects, but I am open to second hand accounts, say, of Ram Dass (AKA Dr. Richard Alpert) of the Hindu Guru, Neem Karolie Baba's abilities.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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PocketLady



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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#19023455 - 10/24/13 03:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
I was experiencing a plethora of synchronistic events and have had MANY experiences that seem to indicate humans can sense and feel each other's feelings without the use of body language
What makes you believe that these experiences are not amenable to testing and verification?
Because of the conditions needed - See my previous post to Icelander. If it is real then it's clearly not something that can be easily detected because otherwise we would all know about it already. I know as soon as I mention LSD everyone instantly switches off because clearly the acid is just messing with my head right? But in case no one has noticed, all psychedelics put you in an incredibly sensitive state where perhaps you are able to detect things you wouldn't normally consciously notice.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Icelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19023489 - 10/24/13 03:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Except as was my experience and you would likely find the vast majority of LSD experiencers would not agree with your findings.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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PocketLady



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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Icelander]
#19023514 - 10/24/13 03:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yep you may be right. But I can't deny my own experiences, especially after trying to deny them so many times. That's the thing. I am not just jumping to conclusions. I have been sceptical. I have told myself it's impossible. Could my mind still be playing tricks on me? Maybe.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Icelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
#19024061 - 10/24/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The mind is complex and runs us. Not the other way around imo. It's capable of the most complex fantasies. Just remember what you think you are seeing is just a cloud of atomic particles.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Fierce Deity
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
#19025222 - 10/24/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would say that synchronicity and coincidences are both representations that we are one collective entity experiencing itself from many different facets simultaneously. When you need something, your friend has it for you. When your friend needs something, it is there for you.
People can block this flow all they want by greed. They can pretend that they aren't also the whole as well as a part. They eventually find out that once they participate in the flow, that their life flowers in ways that they never knew possible. Trusting your intuition tells you when it is time to let something flow out or let something flow in.
-------------------- Ah, the mystery. When sight and seen are complete, who looks through these eyes? All words are lies. This statement, too, is false.
 
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Shermsticks
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Fierce Deity]
#19026755 - 10/24/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Synchronicity can be tested and verified...It is sort of like the UFO in that no one believes in it until it happens to them, and that, like the UFO, many people will not believe it even if the coincidence is recorded and the math done which puts the stacking of coincidences into the 'impossible' range.
As when Carl Jung and his patient were talking about the patients dream in which she had seen a scarab, and at that moment a scarab appeared through Jungs window. 1) She had a dream about a scarab 2) While talking to Jung about the scarab it appears.
Chances of that happening are likely 1: fifteen billion, and yet these types of coincidences happen all the time throughout a persons lifetime.
How many things have happened or not happened I wonder, due to a shooting star going by at just the right moment..or an overheard word or unlikely event..
Synchronicity has likely driven a lot history, especially early history when leaders took coincidence with more than a grain of salt.
-------------------- Carve an x in your head
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: FishOilTheKid]
#19027285 - 10/24/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pychs enhance ESP in my experience too
ESP = 0
Enhanced ESP * 10 still equals zero.
Telekinesis is enhanced in exactly the same way.
But 'pychs' don't do shit for spelling.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Shermsticks]
#19027291 - 10/24/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
It is sort of like the UFO in that no one believes in it until it happens to them
I believe people see aerial objects they are unable to identify. So what?
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Shermsticks]
#19033628 - 10/25/13 11:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chances of that happening are likely 1: fifteen billion
Please show your math on this made-up nonsense.
Quote:
Synchronicity can be tested and verified...
So then why have all such tests failed? Should I venture a guess?
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Icelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#19033882 - 10/26/13 12:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I love the way people make up bizarre stats to back their suspect claims.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Shermsticks]
#19034270 - 10/26/13 04:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Chances of that happening are likely 1: fifteen billion
Did you know that 73.7% of all statistics are made up?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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