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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19017572 - 10/23/13 04:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Coming from a science background initially, I regard the Scientific Method as the most straightfoward, logical means to prove causation. However, as I came to experience anomalous behaviors deemed parapsychological, and paranormal (I differentiate), I could not devise any controlled experiments to prove that an undefined phenomenon existed. I mean, when I had "ring-like-a-bell-in-the-head" telepathy (Gertrude Schmeidler's expression), the people whose thoughts I perceived without benefit of my aural sensory organs, were horrified! Their jaws dropped. They stammered out something like "I didn't SAY that, I THOUGHT that!" I can't prove that even if those people reified the story.




Awesome post Markos.  I have struggled for a while with this.  I also believe in the scientific method but have had some strange experiences that I know to be true, but that I can never objectively prove.  I've spent many an hour questioning my sanity, but always come back to the fact that I am a level-headed, rational, and logical person. 

A year or so ago I was experiencing a plethora of synchronistic events and have had MANY experiences that seem to indicate humans can sense and feel each other's feelings without the use of body language.  I mention feelings rather than thoughts because I've never experiences a situation where someone has directly read my exact thoughts or vice versa. 

I wrote about this phenomenon a few days ago here:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18984800#18984800

When this all started to happen I initially completely denied the experience.  For sometimes months at a time I convinced myself that it had just all been in my head, but every time something would happen to remind me that it was actually real.  And yet, I can't objectively prove any of it and most likely will never be able to :shrug: 

:feelsweirdman:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19017698 - 10/23/13 05:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

A year or so ago I was experiencing a plethora of synchronistic events and have had MANY experiences that seem to indicate humans can sense and feel each other's feelings without the use of body language.

How about some examples?  Remember what forum you're in.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Icelander]
    #19017745 - 10/23/13 06:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

There are lots of examples of the latter in the link I posted above.  This is definitely not something I can easily explain away.

Regarding actual synchronicity, it seems to be much harder to pin down due to it's very personal nature.  Most of my synchronicities have revolved around lessons I've needed to learn in order to make my life better.  I am very hesitant to post any here because I am fully aware that what is meaningful to me will almost certainly seem like mere coincidence to anyone else, and I accept and understand that, and hey maybe those people would be right.  Subjecting them to scrutiny is pointless as even I'm not sure if they are real or imagined. 

The other stuff on the other hand, humans sensing feelings...well it's become very hard for me to write off those experiences.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19017778 - 10/23/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well I can "sense" feelings over the internet yet I'm wrong almost as much as I'm right.  And body language pick up is so subtle you would have to have the person completely out of sight and voice to say it had no effect with any surety. 

But my point is that if you are going to talk about it in a forum like this then it should be up for scrutiny.  Otherwise PM might be more appropriate.

I went back and looked at (skimmed) your thread and noticed that they all seemed to include the use of drugs which imo likely invalidates any of your findings.  I say this from my 40+  years of using and studying drug experience.

What experiences do you have that are as similar or intense in completely sober states of consciousness? 

What one thinks they experience on drugged states usually has very little to do with what is going on outside ones own head.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/23/13 07:07 AM)


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Icelander]
    #19017801 - 10/23/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I am saying that it's silly to scrutinise stuff that is definitely 100% subjective.  Experiences that cannot possibly be shared by anyone else.  Stuff I freely admit may be imagined. 

My post was a reply to Markos' comment that just because something cannot be scientifically proven, it doesn't make it impossible. I am willing to talk about stuff that can actually be part of a discussion, which is why I wrote a whole essay on it on the link I posted. 

Regarding what you are saying about body language...How about being at the back of a packed concert venue with several hundred people between you and the stage, and the people on stage reacting?  That cannot possibly be body language imho.  I'm talking about sensing feelings, as in physically being able to feel them in your body, a bit like they are your own.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


Edited by PocketLady (10/23/13 07:20 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19017817 - 10/23/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

And you are experiencing these things drug free?  Tell me yes and then I'll start listening.
  How do you know they are reacting and did you speak with them later to confirm this?  IMO this is all going down in your imagination.  In 40+ years of tripping I've imagined so many things I though real at the time I've lost count.  None of it was actually happening in this world.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Icelander]
    #19017833 - 10/23/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes I have experienced this in a drug-free state, but I will admit it was first brought to my attention the first time I did acid.  Acid brought a lot of things to my attention.

The thing is, in order to experience what I am talking about, you need some pretty specific conditions.  You need:

1. A group of people who are more aware than your average Joe. 
2. You need a substance to heighten that awareness even more (maybe not 100% necessary but helps with number 1).
3.  You need everyone to be on the same emotional wavelength so that any change in emotion is obvious.  I think it might be better to say that you need people who are "high" or totally in the moment, so that any "drop" caused by a negative emotion is highly noticeable. 

The best way I can prove this is to say - Go to a psytrance party on acid, dance your arse off for a bit having a great time, and then think some negative stuff in the middle of the dance floor. Observe what happens. Repeat until satisfied that it's extremely unlikely there is another explanation for your observations.

I have repeated this experiment more times than I can count, always with the same result.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19017869 - 10/23/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The best way I can prove this is to say - Go to a psytrance party on acid, dance your arse off for a bit having a great time, and then think some negative stuff in the middle of the dance floor. Observe what happens. Repeat until satisfied that it's extremely unlikely there is another explanation for your observations.


Do you really think I haven't tried this in 40+ years of tripping balls.  I've spent three weeks (three years) at Burning Man dancing, tripping, going in and out of weird negative thought patterns without once noticing any change in the outside world. Not to mention all the concerts and other festivals i've attended over the years.

I've heard your story from countless friends who eventually abandoned it in the light of day and some time.  I've never once seen it pan out.  I've stood next to trippers who grab my arm and say excitedly, "look! do you see it now" . But I didn't see shit. :shrug:

What you are seeing imo is your mental state super-imposed over the scene and conformation bias among peers.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19017900 - 10/23/13 08:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well what can I say. All of my evidence is completely anecdotal, I  know that.  I kinda hope what you are saying is true, because tbh all this freaks me out a bit.  I don't really like the idea of people being able to feel my feelings...!  It's just it's happened to me so many times now.  Once or twice, yeah ok, it's all in my head, but we are talking like 7 or 8 4 day festivals over the past 2 years and at least double that amount of gigs/parties.  I'm off out to a gig/party on Friday.  Ok, so devil's advocate, any suggestions as to how I can prove this isn't real?


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19017907 - 10/23/13 08:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Just start doing this at work or on the street with strangers in a sober state. If it only works around people you empathize with then you can suspect conformation bias. Personally I'm amazed at how good we can read subtle body language but often ignore the information.  Canines can even do it better than humans so the studies indicate and sometimes their behaviors seem magical.  In the same way that they can smell something that never even comes close to your radar. Once I started studying canine body language I realized they were trying to communicate to me all the time but I was missing all but the most obvious stuff.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19018047 - 10/23/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I'm talking about sensing feelings, as in physically being able to feel them in your body, a bit like they are your own.




I know exactly what you are talking about.:eek:



Pychs enhance ESP in my experience too.  And, it is possible to breakthrough to a place populated with non-human entities where you will never come back down to your previous baseline state.:awesurprise:

But let me suggest that we are like a host to an intelligence that is partial inhabitance guiding us or leading us astray.  This force which is a population unto itself is interacting with mankind and orchestrating meaning by way of this synchronicity.    They feed off of us and in turn feed us.  Most do not hear them when they talk and most do not see them.  Like Mckenna was on about - psychedelics are a communication device and a calling card.  Psilocybe thrust me into a very direct confrontation with this 'other.'

Like a layer in photoshop they, either from within the body or from another host, do superimpose meaning over the 'image' perceived by the individual by inserting in real time a thought stream that is synched with the visual of external reality.  It appears that the people 'out there' are actually communicating willfully.  You wouldn't notice that its not just the product of your own thought or supposed interaction because it appears to be.

It is a trick in my case most of the time to gain belief and therefore an inflow.  It is a controlled psychosis but an effective method of idea exchange between me and this non-human group of entities.  Its an important tool for transferring understanding and one that can be used to create hell by making a real mess of one's sanity and stability and boundaries.  The signature look IME is this almost robotic super smooth flowing motion trailing heaven behind with every step.

I do believe that you and others are experiencing something real.  I however have my doubts that it is always coming willfully from the person (or animal) that seems to be communicating.  They are used to manipulate what you believe in my experience.  Having observed this for some time now (the last four years) I feel confident that this^ is all a huge super secret aspect of how our lives come together here on Earth.

The human can be hacked and programmed.  We are like agents of information.  We matter and the information matters enough for it to be controlled like I describe and you have experienced.

Do you ever confront these people that you are experimenting with?  Do you ever talk to them inside the head and hear them talk back in voices either in the mind or from the mouth?

Quote:

Ok, so devil's advocate, any suggestions as to how I can prove this isn't real?




Walk up to them and engage them.  Ask them if you can do an experiment.  Form pictures or words in the mind, direct them at the person and ask them to report on what they are picking up.  Ask them to do the same to you.  Often you will find that it seems relatively impossible to actually communicate.  So there is another explanation for how this comes together going on behind the scenes where the ideas become conclusions in the mind.  There is a purpose for this.


Edited by FishOilTheKid (10/23/13 03:41 PM)


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19019570 - 10/23/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Psychedelics including cannabis can lower the ego defenses that have suppressed schizophrenic symptoms. I warned one young student many years ago, whom I and an independent clinician diagnosed as Schizophrenic, Paranoid Type, to assiduously avoid LSD. He didn't listen and precipitated a psychotic break. He fired a shotgun off in a relative's store, and was jailed. He's been living on the streets for years. Cannabis was responsible for triggering panic attacks in a friend's son whom I spoke with recently. Some literature does say that cannabis can trigger psychotic breaks too. These conditions already exist latently, but once ego defenses are dissolved, they break through into consciousness.



:strokebeard:


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19019697 - 10/23/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, apparently there is emotional as well as cognitive telepathy. One has to be able to rule out subtle physical cues like microexpressions, and body language. On a few occasions, twice on acid, once while waiting for a professor to let us all into class, I 'heard' (for lack of an appropriate word) the voices of people. The acid experience included two different people, both behind me in a tight crowd at a Dead concert. I turned to look both times but these two unrelated guys were facially still, and one of the things I heard was not something that a guy would say out loud. He was a tall, skinny guy and standing in front of him and immediately on my right was a short, muscular mesomorph with his shirt off. I heard, "Wow, look at the build on this guy." I turned around because in 1973, you just wouldn't hear someone say something like that. I took out my little hash pipe and lit it. I then heard another voice from another guy behind me to my left. "How about a hit of that?" I heard. I turned and looked, but all I saw was this guy glaring at me. There were so many people shoulder-to-shoulder, it wasn't opportune to offer my pipe - and have it come back! Outside a statistics class, was this Indian girl named Uma, like Uma Thurman, 'goddess of the dawn.' I found her attractive, but I was in a long-distance engagement. I 'heard' this girl think, with a tone of indignation in her sing-song Indian inflection, as I smiled and passed her by, "Am I not desirable?!" I knew immediately that she did not vocalize that in the midst of a bunch of clustered people.

It took a couple of these experiences to discern the difference between 'hearing' mentally, without the usual enervations of the ear. There is an absence of a sensation we're not usually aware of until it's not there! So, whatever psychophysical interactions you perceived, I for one believe that you experienced what you dismissed as having been all in your head. I have not had more than 7 such experiences in my life. One was slightly different, but I'll not elaborate here. THE most frustrating thing is that most people will not believe you, and may call you a liar. People get angry for different reasons. (1) they may believe me, but haven't experienced a Psi function themselves and would like to, (2) they perceive me as expounding powers, as if I have control over these things, (3) those who have been the subject of whose thoughts I've perceived are alarmed, and become afraid that I'll hear more of their thoughts. Fear creates hate and anger. I think these telepathic events were encapsulated between 1973 and 1980. I've had precognitive dreams since junior high school. No clairvoyance or clairaudience. Definitely no psychokinesis/telekinesis.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19020129 - 10/23/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I witness this everyday.:thumbup:

There are lies to deal with though.  They form an orchestrated deception that narrates the supposed telepathic exchanges.

They are basically laughing at the population confusing the shit out of them by feeding them an alternative reality tunnel.

I often have whole conversations with people will remaining completely silent externally.  Its exactly as if these entities are telling me what people think but I doubt they are telling the Truth.  And often I will act it out with body language and facial expressions while talking in a voice inside the head so if the communication is real they at least see that I'm responding.  I risk looking completely insane to the observer if I believe too much.  At one point I thought everybody knew exactly what was going on and was keeping it a secret so they wouldn't talk about it out loud because they were instructed not to.

I see them and they climb around on my body creating hell everywhere.  Its usually a group of familiar voices.  One male and one female most notably.

They can produce color in your visual field by manipulating the image of reality.  They use this method of communication to prove their existence and control.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19020363 - 10/23/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I was experiencing a plethora of synchronistic events and have had MANY experiences that seem to indicate humans can sense and feel each other's feelings without the use of body language




What makes you believe that these experiences are not amenable to testing and verification?


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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #19022288 - 10/23/13 10:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, well, I am not describing "entities," nor am I describing paranoid schizophrenic aural hallucinations. I am attempting to describe very isolated events, two close together in space-time, the rest separated by months or years, with the last of 7 events having occurred some 33 years ago. Holding conversations with others, if even possible, would immediately become two people recording these thoughts on paper for comparison. There would be an agreement that pure mental telepathy was occurring, and anyone with the slightest scientific curiosity would surely comply. I can only form conjectures about the condition that you are describing as an everyday phenomenon for you, but that immediately distinguishes your experiences from mine. I remain conversant with the ideas of J. B. Rhine, one of his students, Bob Brier (a former professor of mine), Gertrude Schmeidler, Charles Tart, Rupert Sheldrake, and other serious researchers of Psi functions. I do not believe the stories by Uri Geller, for example, and his alleged UFO induced abilities, including teleportation of physical objects, but I am open to second hand accounts, say, of Ram Dass (AKA Dr. Richard Alpert) of the Hindu Guru, Neem Karolie Baba's abilities.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19023455 - 10/24/13 03:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I was experiencing a plethora of synchronistic events and have had MANY experiences that seem to indicate humans can sense and feel each other's feelings without the use of body language




What makes you believe that these experiences are not amenable to testing and verification?




Because of the conditions needed - See my previous post to Icelander.  If it is real then it's clearly not something that can be easily detected because otherwise we would all know about it already.  I know as soon as I mention LSD everyone instantly switches off because clearly the acid is just messing with my head right?  But in case no one has noticed, all psychedelics put you in an incredibly sensitive state where perhaps you are able to detect things you wouldn't normally consciously notice.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19023489 - 10/24/13 03:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Except as was my experience and you would likely find the vast majority of LSD experiencers would not agree with your findings.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Icelander]
    #19023514 - 10/24/13 03:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yep you may be right.  But I can't deny my own experiences, especially after trying to deny them so many times.  That's the thing. I am not just jumping to conclusions.  I have been sceptical.  I have told myself it's impossible.  Could my mind still be playing tricks on me?  Maybe.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: PocketLady]
    #19024061 - 10/24/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The mind is complex and runs us. Not the other way around imo.  It's capable of the most complex fantasies.  Just remember what you think you are seeing is just a cloud of atomic particles.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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