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Offlinestellarshnap
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Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious
    #19009286 - 10/21/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Have you ever experienced coincidences that were so perfect it seemed completely impossible for them to be simply coincidence? Have those perfect coincidences happened with such a frequency that you began to see them as more than coincidences? As syncronicities? Have these syncronicities opened your mind to the idea that there is A WHOLE LOT MORE to the universe then we could ever possibly imagine? Perhaps that your mind has a mind of its own?

This has happened to me a whole awful lot, and the most recent one has made me really question the way I view the universe, and my place in it.
Of course this experience was under the influence of LSD, the best way to undermine any theory. Nonetheless I'd like to share it. I was on two hits of some real potent L, and was faced with the decision of what to do with my life. I considered being a nurse, helping people. It seemed like a great idea, I felt I would be happy in such a field, plus the money is decent. But then something popped into my head, "it takes true courage to go against the flow". I was very conflicted while making the decision of being "the courage" or "the help" (what I labeled the two paths I was considering). I felt like choosing the help, and admitting my lack of true courage, was something to be ashamed of. So I leaned toward the courage, but I thought about my actions, and what they reflected of me. So I leaned toward the help. Then I remembered who I was when I was a child, courageous as can be, and I felt that was still somewhere inside of me, so I leaned towards the courage. While I was in this game of back and forth my sober friend who was in another room watching tv, unaware that I was tripping, called me over. He showed me this performance of two men in blue glow suits acting out the idea of "two halves of the whole". (Half the suit glows, half is black). It hit me immediately, "IS THE UNIVERSE TALKING TO ME!?". "How could it be that at this moment, as I am on acid, conflicted between two paths, this performance comes on demonstrating that both halves are necessary for the whole, that neither decision is better than the other?"

The decision I made isn't important, but still this blows my mind. Was it purely a coincidence that was just that perfect? Just like every other extraordinarily perfect coincidence I've encountered under the influence of psychedelics? Or was it something more?


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Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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Offlinecheeshcat
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
    #19010212 - 10/21/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Nothing is a coincidence my dear


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap] * 1
    #19010240 - 10/21/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Have you ever experienced coincidences that were so perfect it seemed completely impossible for them to be simply coincidence?




No, because I understand probability and the fact that there are trillions upon trillions of events every single day happening to billions of people and some are bound to overlap. Stay on the North Pole alone for a few months and see how many weird coincidences there are.

Why do mystic-heads ALWAYS fill in their ignorance of how something works with m-a-g-i-c?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: cheeshcat]
    #19010244 - 10/21/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cheeshcat said:
Nothing is a coincidence my dear




Flat declarations have very little value.


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Offlinestellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19010273 - 10/21/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That's why I was asking OC, I wanted to make sure it was as unjustified a claim as I thought it was. I did however find a way to interpret the experience through symbolism and psychology. Learned some things about myself so that's good


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
    #19010315 - 10/21/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That's fine, but as I repeatedly point out to others who hold the mystical view of synchronicity - there is no way to empirically test the hypothesis. It is 100% interpretive.

Also worth noting (not making a comment about you), but certain mental illnesses such as schizophrenia cause victims to see connections everywhere and to assign great meaning to them.


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Offlinestellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19010439 - 10/21/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well LSD is known to have effects akin to schizophrenia is it not? :lol:


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
    #19010452 - 10/21/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Do schizophrenics enjoy The Grateful Dead?


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Offlinestellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19010483 - 10/21/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Some do I'm sure.


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
    #19010790 - 10/21/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

stellarshnap said:
Well LSD is known to have effects akin to schizophrenia is it not? :lol:




Not really.. The psychedelic experience is not akin to schizophrenia.


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:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:


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Offlinestellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19011232 - 10/21/13 10:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well... "certain mental illnesses such as schizophrenia cause victims to *see connections everywhere and to assign great meaning to them*". That's a reoccurring quality of psychedelics.


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
    #19011313 - 10/21/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Was it purely a coincidence that was just that perfect?




Yes but this is the way it works here.

When it happens with a frequency that allows you to rule out mere coincidence reality is quite magical!

Now I know that the flow of thought perceived by people can be manipulated by disembodied intelligence(s).

Thought insertion actually happens and people can be used as tools to communicate the mystery of the balance.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap] * 2
    #19011630 - 10/22/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, many, many times. Sometimes, Synchronicity (a modern term for miracle IMO) can blend with magick, when such events are elicited, rather than experienced spontaneously. After 15 years of relationship with my Lady, I decided to marry her. I selected a propitious time, and an equally propitious moment: 11/11/11 @ 11:11:11 AM EST. A witness watched the computer clock. Now, it was at exactly this second, as measured somewhat arbitrarily on this computer, but nevertheless, numerological accurate, that I kissed the bride. BUT, I must preface this story with two events that involve my select subjectivity.

The ritual was brief, and included the statue of Thoth, which is the the 'Tongue of Ra,' or in Christian equivalent concept, the 'word of God.' Thoth is the patron god of magick, writing, and communication, which was translated into the Greek Hermes and Roman Mercury. Thoth is the patron deity of Alchemy, and as a marriage vow, we took turns reading the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus. This brief writing is supposed to encapsulate the essence of spiritual work - the Great Work. At any rate, here is the Synchronicity. When the statue of Thoth arrived in the mail at my front door 7 years earlier, and I went to retrieve it after coming home from work, I saw 5 ibis birds sitting in the tree overlooking my front door. Thoth is the ibis-headed deity of Egypt. I had never seen ibises in my yard, and at the time I had lived here for 9 years. The Synchronicity at that moment astounded me. I am pretty sure that ibises had visited my property before, but I had never witnessed them. Jump 7 years.

On 11/11/11, as my notary public and two friends gathered at my house, one of my friends, unaware of the Synchronicity of 7 years hence, called my attention to the front door. There were 9 ibises pecking at the ground on my front yard. This was the second time I had ever witnessed ibises on my property. The last time was when the statue of the ibis-headed statue of Thoth arrived 7 years earlier! I had arranged alchemical symbols around that statue the night before, and I had in mind the hope for some kind of Synchronistic phenomenon to manifest. The arrangement of symbols to elicit a Synchronicity is magick, yet it is magick of a higher or transcendental variety (theurgy) rather than low magick (thaumaturgy) because the intention was one which sought a condition of Union (Alchemical Marriage) rather than the satiation of a desire. It is a unique instance in my life where magick and mysticism came together. In the language of Analytical Psychology, the coincidence of inner psychic and outer physical congruence is manifest Synchronicity. I define this with a certain amount of authority in this matter, having spent 8 years in analysis with 3 Zurich-trained Jungian analysts, 100 hours of Jungian seminars by American and European analysts, 40 years of academic and clinical experience, and 40+ years of psychedelic experience in matters Synchronistic.

Either one has the ability to connect the dots and see the pattern in situations like these, or not. Those whose Intuitive function is their "Inferior Function" will be biased towards Sensate perception, and will by corollary be biased exclusively towards cause-effect processes, failing to perceive "acausal" processes. One must be able to tread lightly while walking the path of Intuition in order to see and appreciate these things that are as Jung described as Synchronicity, namely, "An Acausal Connecting Principle." This is a 'Rainbow Bridge.' Events such as these are like metaphysical stepping stones, spread far apart in time, yet they highlight a path through one's life, like connecting the dots on a child's puzzle.

     

Sir Isaac Newton's translation of The Emerald Tablet found among his alchemical papers that are currently housed in King's College Library, Cambridge University:

Tis true without lying, certain & most true.
That which is below is like that which is above & that which is above is like that which is below to do the miracles of one only thing
And as all things have been & arose from one by the mediation of one: so all things have their birth from this one thing by adaptation.
The Sun is its father, the Moon its mother, the wind hath carried it in its belly, the earth is its nurse.
The father of all perfection in the whole world is here.
Its force or power is entire if it be converted into earth.
Separate thou the earth from the fire, the subtile from the gross sweetly with great indoustry.
It ascends from the earth to the heaven & again it descends to the earth & receives the force of things superior & inferior.
By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world
& thereby all obscurity shall fly from you.
Its force is above all force. For it vanquishes every subtile thing & penetrates every solid thing.
So was the world created.
From this are & do come admirable adaptations whereof the means (or process) is here in this. Hence I am called Hermes Trismegistus, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world
That which I have said of the operation of the Sun is accomplished & ended.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinestellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19012514 - 10/22/13 08:17 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That's interesting Markos. I've been analyzing my experience in a more logical way and I've found a more comprehensible way to look at it. The two halves which I was conflicted in choosing between, are two halves of the same whole, the whole being me. During the experience I thought I had to choose between them, in retrospect I found that I need to become the whole, not just a part of it. Not only do I have to rediscover and solidify the courage I have lost through the tumultuous years of puberty, but also follow the path I seem to have chosen for myself, which is helping people, in other words I think I've decided to be a nurse. The experience seemed to be an opportunity to bridge the gap between my perceived self and my real self. In other words become the person I want to be. Honestly seeing the experience in this light makes it seem all the more profound. Psychedelics in conjunction with the symbolistic nature of the human mind is truly incredible :eek:

In terms of synchronicity and the universes self awareness, I have no way to prove that it was anything more than a coincidence, so I'll look at it as such, for the sake of killing my own ignorance. As long as I do what I feel I need to do, I don't think it's such a big problem.


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap]
    #19012990 - 10/22/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Of course it's a coincidence - a meaningful coincidence, which enjoins the inner subjective and outer objective poles of experience. You are now talking about a purely subjective response to a possible coincidence, a decision you intend to make. That is all well and good, but then you are moving away from a understanding that enjoins a cosmic process and are taking about something called congruence, by psychologist Carl Rogers, which is to say, decreasing the dissonance between your actual self and your ideal self. With regard to Synchronicity, read this brief but fascinating account that Sinologist Richard Wilhelm (translator of the I Ching, the Chinese Book of Changes) wrote. His observations reified Jung's observations.

http://www.ralphmag.org/BN/why.html


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #19013194 - 10/22/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
That's fine, but as I repeatedly point out to others who hold the mystical view of synchronicity - there is no way to empirically test the hypothesis. It is 100% interpretive.

Also worth noting (not making a comment about you), but certain mental illnesses such as schizophrenia cause victims to see connections everywhere and to assign great meaning to them.




It is true that Synchronicity cannot be proved for the obvious reason that it is defined as "An Acausal Connecting Principle." We've both had this discussion before on these forums. Coming from a science background initially, I regard the Scientific Method as the most straightfoward, logical means to prove causation. However, as I came to experience anomalous behaviors deemed parapsychological, and paranormal (I differentiate), I could not devise any controlled experiments to prove that an undefined phenomenon existed. I mean, when I had "ring-like-a-bell-in-the-head" telepathy (Gertrude Schmeidler's expression), the people whose thoughts I perceived without benefit of my aural sensory organs, were horrified! Their jaws dropped. They stammered out something like "I didn't SAY that, I THOUGHT that!" I can't prove that even if those people reified the story.

Similarly, when my ex-wife, me, and our sheep dog, Pandy, all saw a grey oblong 'object' suddenly appear and glide under the table in the darkened dining room, (Pandy put her head up and tilted it like dogs do), I jumped up, interpreting a tailless rodent, perhaps a shrew (I never saw a shrew in Miami). What else could it have been, rationally speaking about a visual perception that two humans and a canine responded to? Lights were turned on, flashlights brought out, the opposite direction from where we all sat was thoroughly explored. No errant car light from outside yielded any illusions. Over the years in my current house, with my second wife, we have also seen momentary gray forms, usually where the grandfather clock stands. I may be a "mystic-head" to you, but I assure you that I do not suffer from visual hallucinations, spurious interpretations, or an over-active imagination (whatever that is). I AM however, familiar with a good deal of mythical, magickal, folklorist, and occult literature that I take seriously insofar as these themes have endured for centuries at times, and which may  be accounts of similar anomalous phenomena - "glitches in the Matrix" so-so-speak. I approach with the only mental tool that one can use - Phenomenology. It requires a solid confidence in the clarity of one's perception.I don't go in for the pendulums and modern electronic electroscopes of ghost hunters :lol: I have, however, considered paying to take a ghost tour of the Deering Estate in Coconut Grove, FL, just to see if I can learn anything from people who ARE convinced of the existence of ghosts. If duppies appear as opaque, physical phenomena, ghosts only manifest translucently at best, according to reports.

My wife is an INTP personality like myself, so we are very Intuitive, and this function seems to be the avenue that allows for psychic experiences, which is to say, phenomena appearing in consciousness, but seemingly bypassing the sensory apparatus. When my wife left London at age 6 and went to live with her grandmother in Jamaica, she saw on more than one occasion, a top-hatted, tall man, wearing a coat with tails and a high upturned collar (so his face was hidden), suddenly climb out of a mango tree next to the veranda on which she played. The man walked past her and into the house, where he promptly vanished. When she told her grandmother, the response was, "Oh child, you have new eyes," which meant that a child, whose mind was as yet not biased and filled with notions of the impossible, she could still perceive some of the non-physical events that island people have been calling duppies for generations. There is a similarity in appearance with the L'wa Baron Samedi in Haitian Vodun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Samedi
My wife is pre-eminently sane. I would stake my reputation on it as a mental health professional. She is a Cornell graduate (also admitted to Princeton and U. of Pennsylvania), and is extremely logical as well as intelligent. There is nothing flakey about her personality. These are simply reports of paranormal, or parapsychological experiences, not an attempt to 'prove' or convince anyone. Only such subjectively experienced events are convincing, and they open one up to the possibility of other reported things. I did not have faith in things other people have seen and reported on, until I had a few scientifically inexplicable events myself.

I'd like to illustrate that my use of the Scientific Method goes back to age 10, but I only have pics of my home lab from 1967 (9th grade) and 1971 (12th grade), when I left for college to study microbiology. Of course, LSD changed everything, and I turned the object of my studies to mind instead of microbiology. Just sayin' - with pictures.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/22/13 11:39 AM)


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Offlinestellarshnap
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19013220 - 10/22/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well if synchronicity is brought about by being synchronous with yourself, you don't really need to understand the cosmic process, rather what you are doing to affect it.


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: stellarshnap] * 1
    #19013338 - 10/22/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

stellarshnap said:
Well if synchronicity is brought about by being synchronous with yourself, you don't really need to understand the cosmic process, rather what you are doing to affect it.




But you see, it is paradoxical. The subjective self or ego is not causative. A kind of realization, or making real of inner harmony, serves as a kind of 'seed crystal' to local space-time, not will-power. When you grow crystals, you evaporate a salt solution until you can recover one crystal that is well-defined enough to tie a thread around. Then you hang it in a supersaturated solution of whatever salt you're using, and its intrinsic harmony catalyzes the growth of a larger and larger crystal around itself, manifesting the same internal structure of the tiny seed crystal. This metaphor suggests The Way things apparently work with the more complex harmonies of nature, as in the atmospheric condition described in The Rain Maker. But the psychic fabric of the people were also an intrinsic part of local space-time. The people themselves were out of harmony with The Way  (Tao) things were supposed to be optimally. The Rain Maker was the seed crystal in the process of re-establishing local harmony.

All summer I was beside myself with loss of my job of 27 years. I was forced, against my ego, into early retirement. My swimming pool turned progressively greener, unlike anything I've ever seen in 17 years of living here. No matter how many chemicals, algaecides, powdered shock I added, I could not clear the water. I spent a fortune on line and in two different pool stores. Not until my emotions began to settle, my freak-out panic subsided, and my mind began to clear, did my pool water begin to clear. As they always said in the TV show Ripley's Believe It Or Not, "Believe it, or not!"


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19014085 - 10/22/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

There is a state of mind that will make every moment a synchronistic event. It's a little bit of an unconsciousness, "taking your eye off the ball" (McKenna), and then it starts to go wild.

I think it is subjective proof for the individual that we exist inside a meaningful mental construct of some kind. It also makes obvious that your brain is able to tap into it, tune into its different frequencies.

---

LSD and mushrooms / ie. psychedelics have nothing to do with schizophrenia. This idea fell out of favor long ago among academia and I am willing to bet as the research process is legalised again into these compounds we'll find they do not incite schizophrenic brain chemistry and cognition, but take on a whole world of their own that may be a harmless place for a schizophrenic to roam.

Mushrooms are a kind of game, playful, little divine, beautiful world. It's a higher dimensional perspective of your ordinary reality. I don't know what LSD is because my one chance at trying it was blocked by Abilify, but being a similar molecule I can only guess it's similar.

There is always a plottedness to any trip. It's always the perfect, right moment, it's where you were meant to be, it's clearly meant to be part of human psychic life, to trip.

It's cannabis that is going to be the chemical unlocker of latent schizophrenia.


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My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Synchronicity and the Collective Unconscious [Re: circastes]
    #19016735 - 10/22/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Psychedelics including cannabis can lower the ego defenses that have suppressed schizophrenic symptoms. I warned one young student many years ago, whom I and an independent clinician diagnosed as Schizophrenic, Paranoid Type, to assiduously avoid LSD. He didn't listen and precipitated a psychotic break. He fired a shotgun off in a relative's store, and was jailed. He's been living on the streets for years. Cannabis was responsible for triggering panic attacks in a friend's son whom I spoke with recently. Some literature does say that cannabis can trigger psychotic breaks too. These conditions already exist latently, but once ego defenses are dissolved, they break through into consciousness.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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