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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,985
Loc: PNW
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Soaked seed vs simmered seed, what is going on?
#19007894 - 10/21/13 10:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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So I never tried the soak in hot water for 24 hours method so I thought I would give it a shot.
I knocked up 24 jars with a lc that colonized my simmered seed jars just fine.
Well in the soaked seed jars I have no growth even after 7 full days. But in the jars that I simmered I see growth within 3-5 days like clock work. What is going on here?
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Soaked seed vs simmered seed, what is going on? [Re: budmanman]
#19007898 - 10/21/13 10:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The simmered seeds were prepared better.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Soaked seed vs simmered seed, what is going on? [Re: krypto2000]
#19007982 - 10/21/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ya but that doesn't tell him anything.
Your soaked seeds are likely under-hydrated, and perhaps a bit under-cooked to make it easy for the mycelium to germinate and/or take hold.
If you want to just 'soak' to prepare your grains, try pouring hard-boiling water directly onto them (in a tote or something) then straining and loading up 12-24hrs later. The flash cook will get them ready finely and the pressure cooker will finish the job. I've done it many times and this prep is described in my tek threads
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,985
Loc: PNW
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Re: Soaked seed vs simmered seed, what is going on? [Re: Violet]
#19008024 - 10/21/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just don't get how they could be under hydrated. A lot of people on here do the hot tap water soak and have success I thought. I squeezed a grain and it turned into mush so it seemed like it was hydrated to me. After pressure cooking though it did not look all that hydrated. I always pressure cook for 2 hours.
Will the myc ever be able to take hold?
The reason I tried it is because when I simmer my grains they always burst a lot.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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thedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Soaked seed vs simmered seed, what is going on? [Re: budmanman]
#19008073 - 10/21/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The only suggestion I might make is that if you are going to forego the simmer, perhaps it might benefit you to knock down your PC sterilization time to around 60 minutes to prevent the grains from cooking out too much moisture. Also, if you are bursting too many grains during your simmer, why not just cut back on the simmer time?
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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,985
Loc: PNW
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Re: Soaked seed vs simmered seed, what is going on? [Re: budmanman]
#19008075 - 10/21/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Endospores are very real and a problem if not properly dealt with.
Simmering dry grains will hydrate them, as will soaking. However, if you boil or simmer dry grains, they expand too fast and many will burst. Burst grains spill starch and are harder for the mycelium to colonize. This can and does cause problems later.
Soaking grains in hot water hydrates them without bursting. If one follows this procedure, the boil is to get them hot enough to steam dry before loading into jars. Other growers use different procedures, but all of them involve getting the grains to the correct moisture content and then sterilizing.
Endospores do not need to germinate to be killed. Stinky, fermented grains will have far more endospores than the original dry grain simply because endospore forming bacteria will begin to form new endospores within hours of germination. Simply hydrate the grains before pressure cooking for at least 4 hours. When the grains are hydrated, the hard shell of the endospore is also hydrated, thus it will easily be nuked in the pressure cooker whether it has germinated or not. RR
RR made this post and I was like hmm maybe just soaking really does hydrate them without bursting.
Well that is obviously not true.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,985
Loc: PNW
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Re: Soaked seed vs simmered seed, what is going on? [Re: thedefone]
#19008084 - 10/21/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
thedefone said: The only suggestion I might make is that if you are going to forego the simmer, perhaps it might benefit you to knock down your PC sterilization time to around 60 minutes to prevent the grains from cooking out too much moisture. Also, if you are bursting too many grains during your simmer, why not just cut back on the simmer time?
I am using rye and if not pced for 90+ minutes you might as well assume ur gonna get green mold.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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thedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Soaked seed vs simmered seed, what is going on? [Re: budmanman]
#19008222 - 10/21/13 12:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am using rye and if not pced for 90+ minutes you might as well assume ur gonna get green mold.
Doesn't even that leave you with 30 minutes that you could cut off from your PC times?
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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,985
Loc: PNW
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Re: Soaked seed vs simmered seed, what is going on? [Re: thedefone]
#19011014 - 10/21/13 10:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah I could but I just like to know it is all dead lol.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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