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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: koraks]
    #19002794 - 10/20/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Also if the sun or a smoked cigarette can change your DNA why wouldn't a plant be able to do the same? What if those RNAi plants shutdown DNA repair genes and thus indirectly promote heterogenous changes in your somatic cells. It wouldn't be too fantastic to have this happen in your germ line helping you transmit a not so epigenetic change to your offspring.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19002802 - 10/20/13 06:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, but then again, in a GMO debate, the questions would be:
* is the chance of this happening higher with GMO's than with unmodified organisms?
* is the impact bigger with GMO's than with unmodified organisms?
There's quite a few real questions attached to the GMO debate. Unfortunately, they are rarely asked (let alone answered).


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: thelanzii]
    #19002865 - 10/20/13 07:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nemmies said:
organic is not sprayed with cancer causing chemicals
Ill take my vegetables untouched by the hand of man, please and thankyou





you're wrong and clearly have no idea what you're talking about

organic pesticides are actually worse than the synthetic counterparts,
organic crops can be sprayed with synthetics but only for a total of 5% of
the quantities used, the problem is that people foolish enough to believe
that organic means better, they're clearly not doing any reading on the
subject. a simple truth is that the organic pesticides tend to be far more
harmful than other products and 100% of the pesticide used on organic crops
can be organic and can cause cancer

http://pesticidetruths.com/2011/11/27/organic-pesticides-cause-cancer-in-rats-and-mice-omri-listed/


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #19002874 - 10/20/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I don't usually buy them. One because they are usually loaded with pesticides/herbicides.

Two because non-organic usually means GMO these days.
Here's a few more reasons.






lol...  just like the organics


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: koraks]
    #19002958 - 10/20/13 08:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Congratulations on being locked into a by now meaningless, semantic discussion on the scope of the term 'genetics'. What is the relevance to the yes-or-no-to-GMO discussion of your desperately trying to get mellowparty to say that you're right?





I was calling him out on telling somebody that they were incorrect on something that they were not incorrect about. And he has still failed to prove that. i do not really care if he says I am right or not, he has no proof to back up what he is saying and therefore is now trying to change his argument.


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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19002976 - 10/20/13 08:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Chemical changes on DNA bases are still DNA changes




umm no, they are changes to enzymes that DNA associates with, not changes to DNA itself





Quote:

So thats not food genetically altering ourselves even if said changes have an effect generations later? And no I did not specify changes in the DNA sequence.




Altering "ourselves" is not the same thing as altering our genetics as you implied was possible. And you still fail to produce any sound evidence of this.

You are just angry because you got called out for telling someone they were wrong when you were really just trolling or whatever it was you were trying to accomplish. Now you are backed into a corner and have too much pride to admit your mistake


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Offlinemellowparty
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Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 18,467
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19003120 - 10/20/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Quote:

Chemical changes on DNA bases are still DNA changes




umm no, they are changes to enzymes that DNA associates with, not changes to DNA itself




Incorrect.

C-5 in cytosine can accept methyl groups from S-adenosylmethionine which can then be hydroxylated and further modified by many enzymatic activities.



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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19003276 - 10/20/13 10:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
And he has still failed to prove that.



And you have still failed to prove how your hair splitting relates to the GMO debate. Now let's hear it.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19004846 - 10/20/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
And he has still failed to prove that.



And you have still failed to prove how your hair splitting relates to the GMO debate. Now let's hear it.





So when did I say that it relates to the debate? Now lets hear why you are involving yourself in such a pointless debate.


Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Quote:

Chemical changes on DNA bases are still DNA changes




umm no, they are changes to enzymes that DNA associates with, not changes to DNA itself




Incorrect.

C-5 in cytosine can accept methyl groups from S-adenosylmethionine which can then be hydroxylated and further modified by many enzymatic activities.








It is still not actually altering our genes, good try though


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19004854 - 10/20/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)



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Invisiblethelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19005060 - 10/20/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i buy local.  i have worked at the farm I buy 90 percent of my produce from.  they do not spray anything.  excuse my broad statement.


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InvisibleKhii Khwaay
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Registered: 04/16/12
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: thelanzii]
    #19005120 - 10/20/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I buy local as much as I can, too. The only problem is, I live in an area that has a short growing season, so if I wanted to eat locally grown food all year long, I'd be eating mostly potatoes and turnip all winter.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: thelanzii]
    #19005205 - 10/20/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nemmies said:
i buy local.  i have worked at the farm I buy 90 percent of my produce from.  they do not spray anything.  excuse my broad statement.





the problem is that 90% of the US organic market share is controlled by
Con-Agra, and HJ Heinz which leaves  fewer than 10% as smaller local growers
which dont use anything  we'd consider harmful but my points are that organic
isnt always less harmful to the environment and that most og the organic
produce isnt what people believe it to be


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Offlinemellowparty
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Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 18,467
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19006220 - 10/20/13 10:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It is still not actually altering our genes, good try though



:imout:
You have made it obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19006235 - 10/20/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

It is still not actually altering our genes, good try though



:imout:
You have made it obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about.





And yet you still have failed to produce any evidence that GMO foods actually alter our genes . . .

. . . Still waiting


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Offlinemellowparty
legitimate researcher


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 18,467
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19006256 - 10/20/13 10:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

It is still not actually altering our genes, good try though



:imout:
You have made it obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about.





And yet you still have failed to produce any evidence that GMO foods actually alter our genes . . .

. . . Still waiting



Don't change the subject, you were wrong on the DNA change thing, then I showed you had no idea what you're talking about and you still won't accept that chemical changes alter our genes.

And here is an example of how plant RNAs can change the way your genes work.
http://www.nature.com/cr/journal/v22/n1/full/cr2011158a.html


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19006293 - 10/20/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

It is still not actually altering our genes, good try though



:imout:
You have made it obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about.





And yet you still have failed to produce any evidence that GMO foods actually alter our genes . . .

. . . Still waiting



Don't change the subject, you were wrong on the DNA change thing, then I showed you had no idea what you're talking about and you still won't accept that chemical changes alter our genes.

And here is an example of how plant RNAs can change the way your genes work.
http://www.nature.com/cr/journal/v22/n1/full/cr2011158a.html






Quote:

These findings demonstrate that exogenous plant miRNAs in food can regulate the expression of target genes in mammals.




Sorry, but that is not considered altering our genes.

I have not changed the subject one little bit. And changing the way are genes work is not equal nor the same thing as altering our genes, but again, good try

:happyclaps:


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Offlinemellowparty
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Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 18,467
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19006375 - 10/20/13 10:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

And changing the way are genes work is not equal nor the same thing as altering our genes



The genes are only relevant in terms of the flow of genetic information. If you change the flow of information you obviously alter the genes mode of action. You can have an inactive gene and change it all you want but its not going to have any effect on life whatsoever.


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Offlinemellowparty
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Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 18,467
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19006383 - 10/20/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Also those chemical changes I described are considered actual gene changes regardless of what you think you understand or know (which you clearly don't as you demonstrated when you denounced base modifications). That sort of changes can be transmitted through generations and have a profound effect on the somatic cells of said generation. It has been shown that the nutritional intake of people some 60-70 years ago has an effect on health today in terms of diabetes and heart disease frequency.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19006397 - 10/20/13 10:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ok well you obviously are not going to provide any actual evidence of this theory of yours so am just going to stop responding to you. If you do happen to provide this evidence I would gladly change my position on the issue. Thanks


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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