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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Repertoire89]
#19008869 - 10/21/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Actually yes, because the person plummeting to the ground can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're not in a dream or simulation.
May seem unlikely, but technically speaking (the only kind of speaking which matters in philosophy) the event is still observed solely from a subjective viewpoint. There is simply no escaping the subjectivity of existence.
Will you bandy words with death too? You might try I suppose, as history has shown over the course of countless billions of deaths there is a fixed result in that scenario and no amount of word play will change what happens when a human jumps off a cliff or a tall building.
History shows only what your mind perceives which is his point. There is no way to know the accuracy of that perception. I might be strapped to a gurney in a mental ward from a LSD disaster in 1971, imagining all this nonsense.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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GoldenEye
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Icelander]
#19008921 - 10/21/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Aren't the small truths you speak of merely conventions we all agree upon because they are quite insignificant but make life/communication just that tad bit easier?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: GoldenEye]
#19008941 - 10/21/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Who exactly are you posting to?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Icelander]
#19009151 - 10/21/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
History shows only what your mind perceives which is his point. There is no way to know the accuracy of that perception. I might be strapped to a gurney in a mental ward from a LSD disaster in 1971, imagining all this nonsense. 
As far as I'm concerned that has as much credence as catholicism, simply no evidence to suggest that what we perceive is not objective and a world of evidence to suggest it is.
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NetDiver
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Repertoire89]
#19009362 - 10/21/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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No, there isn't. Think about it. Everything any human has ever known, they have learned about through the lens of their mind and their perception. Never once have we seen an un-perceivable realm; by definition it's impossible. If we can't see it or touch it or experience it in any way, how could we gather evidence in favor of its existence?
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GoldenEye
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Icelander]
#19009379 - 10/21/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Who exactly are you posting to?
The OP, I only read the opening post to be honest
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Repertoire89
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: NetDiver]
#19009439 - 10/21/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: No, there isn't. Think about it. Everything any human has ever known, they have learned about through the lens of their mind and their perception. Never once have we seen an un-perceivable realm; by definition it's impossible. If we can't see it or touch it or experience it in any way, how could we gather evidence in favor of its existence?
What happens after death we don't know, or at least I don't know. As far as someone falling off a building the records pretty clear, very few survive the impact (as strange as it is some have survived falls from air planes)
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Hobozen


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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Repertoire89]
#19011399 - 10/21/13 11:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Hobozen]
#19011419 - 10/21/13 11:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hobozen


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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Repertoire89]
#19011522 - 10/21/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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woo woo woo, all we do is wooo
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Repertoire89
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Hobozen]
#19011541 - 10/22/13 12:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not bad good sir, not bad at all
Edited by Repertoire89 (10/22/13 12:10 AM)
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Hobozen


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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Repertoire89]
#19011571 - 10/22/13 12:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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ah ah ah ah
that face looks familiar is it you or is it me?
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Repertoire89
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Hobozen]
#19011663 - 10/22/13 12:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Repertoire89]
#19012376 - 10/22/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
History shows only what your mind perceives which is his point. There is no way to know the accuracy of that perception. I might be strapped to a gurney in a mental ward from a LSD disaster in 1971, imagining all this nonsense. 
As far as I'm concerned that has as much credence as catholicism, simply no evidence to suggest that what we perceive is not objective and a world of evidence to suggest it is.
Right as far a you're concerned. But ultimately I don't see it that way and imo for very good reasons.
Science has basically shown us what we perceive is not objective existence. What you are looking at is basically a cloud of atoms and such and it's very likely that's not the bottom of the rabbit hole either.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Icelander]
#19013308 - 10/22/13 11:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Right as far a you're concerned. But ultimately I don't see it that way and imo for very good reasons.
Science has basically shown us what we perceive is not objective existence. What you are looking at is basically a cloud of atoms and such and it's very likely that's not the bottom of the rabbit hole either.
I'm not speculating what happens after the body dies, but having daily reoccurances of various phenomena its more than safe to say certain reactions are inevitable.
Going into a sparring match there is no question of whether a fist making it past my guard will hurt or if it could possibly knock me unconscious. That's simply the way it is and can be demonstrated easily should anyone doubt the fundamental existence of the phenomena. No words or shift in perspective will change it.
At the same time we know that a person who falls from a thousand feet in the air will not get up and brush themselves off. Whatever is known about atoms and physics, that knowledge came through experiments within unchanging circumstances stretching back to the days when lions ruled the savannah. Would there be language, mathematics or microscopes without the unchanging nature of the objective world? We think and communicate in patterns, which repetition gives us. Death is one of the fundamentals of that pattern, even the stars die and we know that from consistent observation. The possibility of a lack of death, is an abstract concept with no basis in observation.
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Repertoire89
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Icelander]
#19013342 - 10/22/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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This conversation is pretty funny, was thinking about the possibility of DA behind the idea of a subjective universe. Then again the possibility of insecurity behind my own arguments for a largely objective universe, grasping for solid ground.
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Icelander
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Repertoire89]
#19013350 - 10/22/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I suspect you're tied to a gurney somewhere in some demonic heaven imagining all all that shit. 
Could happen. Ultimately we know nothing for sure. But the possible illusion of reality seems sufficient for acting within the possible illusion of reality. So on a day to day basis I act as if I know things I'm not really completely sure of.
After sixty years of watching the progress of science that seems pretty well established that we know nothing for sure ultimately.
We could go back and forth about this all day but why? I'm usually debating the other side of this so I already know what you're going to say. Sometime it's fun to switch sides of the debate.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Icelander]
#19013377 - 10/22/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If it weren't for my experience with OBEs, LD and psychedelics I wouldn't give the idea of a subjective universe much thought. In general I view this world as objective though, as much so as I doubt the existence of the christian god which is to say a near surety.
Everyone will arrive at their own conclusion, but from what I've gathered over the years I'm sure this world will exist beyond my death and the concepts of physics will hold.
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Icelander
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Repertoire89]
#19013464 - 10/22/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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To be sure of anything is hubris imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: the truth, The Truth and THE TRUTH! [Re: Icelander]
#19013496 - 10/22/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You have been using the 'word of the month' for three months now. Time for a new one. How about adoxography?
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