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Offlineloggrower
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Genetic decline rate for grain > grain transfers?
    #19003396 - 10/20/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I am curious what the genetic decline rate is for say a standard commercial Oyster or Shiitake strain.

Say you spawn a bag of grain with 10% Oyster grain spawn, and then grow that bag out, then spawn another bag, and so on... How many transfers until genetic decline kicks in and starts measurably reducing yield/spawn rate?

10 tranfers? 50 transfers?


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OfflineShu
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Re: Genetic decline rate for grain > grain transfers? [Re: loggrower]
    #19004555 - 10/20/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The answer is 42.


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Offlineloggrower
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Re: Genetic decline rate for grain > grain transfers? [Re: Shu]
    #19006205 - 10/20/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

LoL! 42 bottles of beer on the wall... No, seriously!

Has there ever been any solid studies... Eg, take some plain spores from a standard commercial Oyster strain to reset the clock, spawn them on agar, and then goto grain transfers and see how many until the spawn shows a production decline?


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Genetic decline rate for grain > grain transfers? [Re: loggrower]
    #19006240 - 10/20/13 10:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Let's find out! 1, 2 ,3! 3 transfers to get to the end of continuous vigorous growth!

On a side note, who the hell gets to the center of a tootsie pop in 3 licks!  We were fed lies our whole childhoods :omfg:


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Genetic decline rate for grain > grain transfers? [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19006266 - 10/20/13 10:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

On a serious note though I have heard ten thrown out there but all in all it's likely going to depend on conditions, actual rates, and whatever else.  Hell depending on where you get your culture it may already be at the end of the road.  Always have a back up of your original culture and it's just good standard practice to go back to it from time to time rather than wait for that one grow where your just gonna get crap results.  Weaker growth= increased risk for contams.  Last thing you want to do is lose track of your greenhouse for a couple days and check it to find an outbreak of sporulated trich.


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InvisibleGanzig
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Re: Genetic decline rate for grain > grain transfers? [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19006959 - 10/21/13 02:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hundreds.


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Offlineforrest
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Re: Genetic decline rate for grain > grain transfers? [Re: Ganzig]
    #19007193 - 10/21/13 05:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

it would probably be more correct to speak in terms of volume expansion or mass expansion rate.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Genetic decline rate for grain > grain transfers? [Re: forrest]
    #19007446 - 10/21/13 08:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

loggrower said:
I am curious what the genetic decline rate is for say a standard commercial Oyster or Shiitake strain.

Say you spawn a bag of grain with 10% Oyster grain spawn, and then grow that bag out, then spawn another bag, and so on... How many transfers until genetic decline kicks in and starts measurably reducing yield/spawn rate?

10 tranfers? 50 transfers?




How many miles can you walk in a pair of red shoes?

How far can you drive a blue car on a tank of gas?

You gave insufficient info to answer your question, but this question comes up all the time anyway so it's easy to find out with the search function.  Doing grain to grain transfers with 1/2 pint jars will expand the mycelium much less than G2G with quart jars.  Quart jars will expand the mycelium much less than large filter patch bags.

Here's where I explained it last week.  Good luck.
RR


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Offlineloggrower
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Re: Genetic decline rate for grain > grain transfers? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19009158 - 10/21/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It sounds like it's important to shake the jars up real well. The less distance the mycelium has to grow from each spawn grain to the new grain the less cellular divisions you end up with, right?


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