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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: koraks]
    #19002535 - 10/20/13 02:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GMO foods genetically alter nature without genetically altering ourselves.



Incorrect


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: thelanzii]
    #19002578 - 10/20/13 03:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nemmies said:
http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/food/risks.htm
http://www.toxicsaction.org/problems-and-solutions/pesticides
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-info/healthyliving/cancercontroversies/pesticides/

you want this on your food?  look what the fucker is wearing.
and to the poster above you.  in this context my brief response made sense.  GMO foods genetically alter nature without genetically altering ourselves.  Sacred geometry should be left untouched.







This was quoted from one of the articles you posted, and it is completely true . . .

Quote:

For now, the evidence is not strong enough to give us any clear answers.




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Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19002581 - 10/20/13 03:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

GMO foods genetically alter nature without genetically altering ourselves.



Incorrect





Oh really? So you are implying that you think GMO foods actually change our DNA?

LMFAO


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Offlinemellowparty
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Registered: 05/17/09
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19002594 - 10/20/13 03:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

GMO foods genetically alter nature without genetically altering ourselves.



Incorrect





Oh really? So you are implying that you think GMO foods actually change our DNA?

LMFAO



Yes, just because you're a moron and can't comprehend how doesn't mean its not possible.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19002602 - 10/20/13 03:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I read they banned it in Japan and other countries

Also if the shit is like some sort of strain that takes out all the others there could be some world ending shit at hand


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19002622 - 10/20/13 03:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

GMO foods genetically alter nature without genetically altering ourselves.



Incorrect





Oh really? So you are implying that you think GMO foods actually change our DNA?

LMFAO



Yes, just because you're a moron and can't comprehend how doesn't mean its not possible.




Hahah it is so funny to see when someone has nothing to back up their argument they resort to flaming people by calling them a moron.


lol The fact remains, GMO foods do not change our DNA. Where is your source proving that, or is that something you just pulled out of your ass?


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: cez]
    #19002637 - 10/20/13 03:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass] * 1
    #19002642 - 10/20/13 03:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Hahah it is so funny to see when someone has nothing to back up their argument they resort to flaming people by calling them a moron.


lol The fact remains, GMO foods do not change our DNA. Where is your source proving that, or is that something you just pulled out of your ass?



You are too arrogant and I will not bless you with my extensive knowledge in the field of plant RNA biology and germ line epigenetics. The fact remains that plant RNAs enter your body untouched and can change the methylation pattern of your sperm so the children of your grandchildren will pay the price for what you ate today.

If I wanted to I could make tomatoes that give you liver cancer (or cure it whatever).


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19002645 - 10/20/13 04:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Hahah it is so funny to see when someone has nothing to back up their argument they resort to flaming people by calling them a moron.


lol The fact remains, GMO foods do not change our DNA. Where is your source proving that, or is that something you just pulled out of your ass?



You are too arrogant and I will not bless you with my extensive knowledge in the field of plant RNA biology and germ line epigenetics. The fact remains that plant RNAs enter your body untouched and can change the methylation pattern of your sperm so the children of your grandchildren will pay the price for what you ate today.

If I wanted to I could make tomatoes that give you liver cancer (or cure it whatever).




Until you produce any factual evidence you are talking out of your ass, but do not have shit to say


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Offlinemellowparty
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Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 18,467
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19002650 - 10/20/13 04:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If that helps your little brain cope with the reality of the situation then ok and besides I've given you enough keywords to do your own research and not rely on others like an info parasite. Look up miR168a, piwi RNAs, exosomes, HEN1 2'O-methyltransferase, lamarckian epigenetics.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19002672 - 10/20/13 04:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

None of that is specific to GMO and you know it. If you mean to say that there are mechanisms that allow external factors to trigger changes in the DNA in existing organisms, then yeah, sure - but we knew that already. We just learn new routes all the time. However, this doesn't serve as an argument that GMO is inherently more dangerous than, well, life in general.

Again, why don't the anti-GMO-tards quit befuddling the GMO debate? We might actually get somewhere if they don't do that. Like I said before, there are real issues at hand; why not focus on specific ones instead of arguing that "there's a risk somewhere in there, so the whole concept of GM is inherently bad?"


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: koraks]
    #19002692 - 10/20/13 04:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

None of that is specific to GMO and you know it.



I agree but I still use it as an argument cause GMO plants are still plants :troll: Also we've and the plants have evolved together so there would have been some selective pressure balancing out the interkingdom transfer of genetic modulators, whether they act merely at the post-transcriptional (in the miR168a rice story) or epigenetic level (I firmly believe this is true, its an extremely hot topic of research at the moment).

However, since we've evolved around these mechanisms we must have adapted to a certain degree. Some of the new GMO plants would utilize strategies to impact directly on the RNA systems inside insects. That is the plants will deliver engineered microRNAs inside the insects gut and fuck up their gene expression i.e. kill them.

Who's to say we can control what ever single RNA we engineer would do to our bodies especially our liver and germ cells. Its not like we know everything about microRNAs and the exomiRNA RITS complex interactions at the chromatin landscape. Studies have shown that the level of nutrition our grandparents experienced affects our health today and the function exhibited high regression coefficient (I'm trying to dig out this finding atm).

I'm pro GMO research and I think GMO would help solve the world hunger problem but there are dangers we haven't even conceptualized yet. While the effect on later generations decades later is not one of them I wouldn't like to think the teams working on those new anti insect plants would have missed some sequence that could neutralize a tumour suppressor or DNA damage repair gene expression in our bodies. I only hope that if they can break it they can also fix it.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19002713 - 10/20/13 05:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
we've and the plants have evolved together so there would have been some selective pressure balancing out the interkingdom transfer of genetic modulators



I see what you mean, but that argument doesn't necessarily seem valid to me. Evolution is a dynamic process, and the evolution of several species next to each other is therefore very likely to be pushed out of balance pretty much all the time. One of the things in this thread that really worries me is that many people seem to regard the ecosystem as some sort of static system that is in an ideal state. It isn't. It's a big mess with many species competing for the same resources. Any balance is really just the result of people perceiving that it's there, while it really is a system that is in constant motion with the current state being just the way things happen to be today. I really think humanity should stop being so obsessed with trying to lock an inherently dynamic system into a steady state. It's a pretty hopeless effort that could easily have exactly the opposite result from what we intend to achieve.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19002722 - 10/20/13 05:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

None of that is specific to GMO and you know it.



I agree but I still use it as an argument cause GMO plants are still plants :troll: Also we've and the plants have evolved together so there would have been some selective pressure balancing out the interkingdom transfer of genetic modulators, whether they act merely at the post-transcriptional (in the miR168a rice story) or epigenetic level (I firmly believe this is true, its an extremely hot topic of research at the moment).

However, since we've evolved around these mechanisms we must have adapted to a certain degree. Some of the new GMO plants would utilize strategies to impact directly on the RNA systems inside insects. That is the plants will deliver engineered microRNAs inside the insects gut and fuck up their gene expression i.e. kill them.

Who's to say we can control what ever single RNA we engineer would do to our bodies especially our liver and germ cells. Its not like we know everything about microRNAs and the exomiRNA RITS complex interactions at the chromatin landscape. Studies have shown that the level of nutrition our grandparents experienced affects our health today and the function exhibited high regression coefficient (I'm trying to dig out this finding atm).

I'm pro GMO research and I think GMO would help solve the world hunger problem but there are dangers we haven't even conceptualized yet. While the effect on later generations decades later is not one of them I wouldn't like to think the teams working on those new anti insect plants would have missed some sequence that could neutralize a tumour suppressor or DNA damage repair gene expression in our bodies. I only hope that if they can break it they can also fix it.





So basically what you are implying is that you have no evidence to support your theory that food can change our DNA. You could have saved yourself a lot of time and just said that in the beginning


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Offlinemellowparty
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Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 18,467
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19002746 - 10/20/13 05:35 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

None of that is specific to GMO and you know it.



I agree but I still use it as an argument cause GMO plants are still plants :troll: Also we've and the plants have evolved together so there would have been some selective pressure balancing out the interkingdom transfer of genetic modulators, whether they act merely at the post-transcriptional (in the miR168a rice story) or epigenetic level (I firmly believe this is true, its an extremely hot topic of research at the moment).

However, since we've evolved around these mechanisms we must have adapted to a certain degree. Some of the new GMO plants would utilize strategies to impact directly on the RNA systems inside insects. That is the plants will deliver engineered microRNAs inside the insects gut and fuck up their gene expression i.e. kill them.

Who's to say we can control what ever single RNA we engineer would do to our bodies especially our liver and germ cells. Its not like we know everything about microRNAs and the exomiRNA RITS complex interactions at the chromatin landscape. Studies have shown that the level of nutrition our grandparents experienced affects our health today and the function exhibited high regression coefficient (I'm trying to dig out this finding atm).

I'm pro GMO research and I think GMO would help solve the world hunger problem but there are dangers we haven't even conceptualized yet. While the effect on later generations decades later is not one of them I wouldn't like to think the teams working on those new anti insect plants would have missed some sequence that could neutralize a tumour suppressor or DNA damage repair gene expression in our bodies. I only hope that if they can break it they can also fix it.





So basically what you are implying is that you have no evidence to support your theory that food can change our DNA. You could have saved yourself a lot of time and just said that in the beginning



Food can change how our genes work at the post transcriptional level. There is an overwhelming body of evidence suggesting that analogous endogenous mechanisms physically change our DNA at the chemical level and its extremely likely that plant food could operate in a similar manner. You can dismiss the pieces of the puzzle all you want but I believe that food affects our DNA at the epigenetic level. I believe it would be definitively proven in the next 5-10 years because all the evidence points towards that.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19002755 - 10/20/13 05:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
In biology, and specifically genetics, epigenetics is the study of mitotically or meiotically heritable changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype, caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence—hence the name epi- (Greek: επί- over, above, outer) -genetics.[1]
It refers to functionally relevant modifications to the genome that do not involve a change in the nucleotide sequence. Examples of such modifications are DNA methylation and histone modification, both of which serve to regulate gene expression without altering the underlying DNA sequence








So yeah as I was saying, food cannot change our DNA. Until you have evidence your theory has no basis. You suggest I look up this or that, but why would I waste my time doing that when I am not the one making a false claim. That would be you.


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Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19002762 - 10/20/13 05:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence



Did I say anything about changes in the DNA sequences? Chemical changes on DNA bases are still DNA changes. On a more abstract level you have heritable changes in the proteins that are intimately associated with DNA and ultimately affect its function and properties. MicroRNAs and other small RNA species modify these changes in DNA/chromatin having an effect on your health and physiology. Whats stopping plant microRNAs doing the same?


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: mellowparty]
    #19002773 - 10/20/13 05:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Did I say anything about changes in the DNA sequences?




You did say this.

Quote:

mellowparty said:
Quote:

GMO foods genetically alter nature without genetically altering ourselves.



Incorrect






And no GMO foods do not alter our DNA. This is the mechanism of epigenetics :

Quote:

Nutrients can reverse or change epigenetic phenomena such as DNA methylation and histone modifications, thereby modifying the expression of critical genes associated with physiologic and pathologic processes, including embryonic development, aging, and carcinogenesis. It appears that nutrients and bioactive food components can influence epigenetic phenomena either by directly inhibiting enzymes that catalyze DNA methylation or histone modifications, or by altering the availability of substrates necessary for those enzymatic reactions.




And it DOES NOT alter our genes as you claim in the above post


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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Offlinemellowparty
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Registered: 05/17/09
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Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19002778 - 10/20/13 06:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So thats not food genetically altering ourselves even if said changes have an effect generations later? And no I did not specify changes in the DNA sequence. On the other hand epigenetic changes can have an effect as drastic as that of sequence alterations if not more profound effect.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: What's your views on fruit/veggies that aren't organic? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19002779 - 10/20/13 06:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Congratulations on being locked into a by now meaningless, semantic discussion on the scope of the term 'genetics'. What is the relevance to the yes-or-no-to-GMO discussion of your desperately trying to get mellowparty to say that you're right?


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