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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 299
Last seen: 11 months, 16 hours
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Feel alienated from society 1
#19002776 - 10/20/13 06:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey. Over the past couple of years I have been reborn due to psychedelics - I am a completely different person now and my mind works in a drastically different way to how it used to and how everyone else's around me does. I go to a college which connects to a high school which means masses of brainwashed trend-following idiots - even the teachers are only slightly better. I have begun to feel very alienated from almost everyone except my very close friends, just due to how different we are. Everybody succumbs to petty argument, bullies one another, focuses on physical appearance... everyone around me just seems to be living according to that capitalist programming. I am not sure if it is mushrooms making me realize i'm the only sane one, or mushrooms making me insane without me realizing... please help - has anyone else had this feeling before?
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19002788 - 10/20/13 06:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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mainstream is like that. You can hide in there and pretend to be the same, but personally thats the WORST I CAN THINK OF. Or
Build your own "small" society for the win
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 299
Last seen: 11 months, 16 hours
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19002801 - 10/20/13 06:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Its very difficult to do so in such a controlled environment
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sof4r0ckeRs1984



Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,886
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19002817 - 10/20/13 06:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Be yourself, but don't cast your pearls to the pigs. Watch your steps, but don't get paranoid. Try to be safe like they do, but don't necessarily be like them. You know yourself you have to play your own game, but without falling from humanity.
The world is just as bad as good. One parts, the next comes.
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GoldenEye
...



Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Yes. And don't judge. They are not worse or better than you. They are just different. You can learn from everyone.
The trick is to figure out a way to let yourself be you, even in your inevitable contacts with them.
The other trick is not to judge. Wait a minute, I started with that one. That must mean I'm done.
You'll be fine.
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Libertin
Absurdist


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 959
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Mushrooms haven't made you 'insane', you've simply gained an elevated perspective on society. Psychedelics are well known to produce insights of amazing clarity.
My advice:
- Accept your alienation.
- Take a hard line-approach to being a non-conformist. This way, when people see you're different they'll want to know 'what you're about', you'll naturally attract the attention of curious and interesting people, it might not happen often though, interesting people are few and far between. Find the others.
- Try to develop compassion towards sheeple rather than misanthropy.
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sof4r0ckeRs1984



Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,886
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: GoldenEye]
#19002837 - 10/20/13 06:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, analyse, don't judge. It can't be said often enough. You are not better than them either. But don't let anybody fuck you over, except if you have to in order to avoid greater evil. When you know you live in a society of who-fucks-first there is often no other possibility then to fuck first. Don't mix up sheeples and wolves.
Edited by sof4r0ckeRs1984 (10/20/13 06:45 AM)
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 299
Last seen: 11 months, 16 hours
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Thanks for the replies, they have been helpful
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Harrishroom
Stranger

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 146
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19002852 - 10/20/13 06:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah I know what you're talking about. People seem to be so consumed by modern life that they are so resistant to talk about the mysterious nature of reality and life. Some of them will consciously dismiss these thoughts as stupid or anxiety provoking. Either way, I don't judge others or put myself above them for this. I don't wanna throw down the government and conventional society, I just think it would be cool if we could live modern lives AND be more aware of ourselves and our surrounding reality. My 
--------------------
Anything that I post on this account should not be considered real or legitimate under the law. I am role playing and none of the procedures I describe have actually taken place; all information posted has been gathered from throughout the internet.
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blckmynnse8
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 206
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Harrishroom]
#19002863 - 10/20/13 07:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also, if you are looking not to be trapped by society make sure to avoid as much monetary debt as possible. Learn to be wise with money and you will be able to live far more comfortably on less income than most people.
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GoldenEye
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Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: blckmynnse8] 1
#19002870 - 10/20/13 07:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Viewing money as materialised trust makes the concept of it a bit less evil.
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bishlap
Po Thead


Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 4,085
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: GoldenEye]
#19002949 - 10/20/13 07:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- "If you're not worried that you took way to much, you didn't take enough" - Terrence McKenna There is no soul, only the ego dies. The body was never yours.
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sof4r0ckeRs1984



Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,886
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: GoldenEye]
#19002966 - 10/20/13 08:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenEye said: Viewing money as materialised trust makes the concept of it a bit less evil.
:top:
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mandrax360
Woodchipper Deluxe


Registered: 09/20/11
Posts: 1,891
Loc: Nelson Mandela House, Peckham
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: GoldenEye]
#19002977 - 10/20/13 08:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm a good few year your senior and can tell you that most the people you go to college with you will hardly ever see again when you finish unless you have similar interests . Just be yourself , if people don't like you for who you are then it's there loss . You have a group of close friend so enjoy there company .
You have already took a step in the right direction as you could have just sat at home on the xbox till you're 18 and waited in the dole queue but you are better than that .To all those kids you go to college with that have a image to keep should take a hard look at the world today . Most people live out of there means and try to keep up with the joneses and all that does is creates problems with debt somewhere down the line .
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TwinEclipse
Psychedelic Alchemist

Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 1,499
Loc: NGC1097
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: mandrax360] 1
#19002989 - 10/20/13 08:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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After mushrooms doses, movies and TV shows looked different to me. Felt fake...focused on other things. They forever change your perspective on a manipulated world.
We weren't made to waste our lives making money. We are made to explore, conquer and survive.
-------------------- My purpose: to love, to share, and to experience....all while conforming to my psychedelic experiences.
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PanGaia
The Guide


Registered: 04/15/12
Posts: 402
Loc: ☀️
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: TwinEclipse]
#19003045 - 10/20/13 08:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is how I felt for like the year after my first trip. As other people said, you have to realize that you are not better than them. This is a very normal phase. I didn't have the knowledge or motivation to change myself at the time, so I stayed in it for awhile.
Just be yourself and find a group of people that love and accept you for who you are. Generally if you look for good people, you find them.
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19003103 - 10/20/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tombc1 said: Its very difficult to do so in such a controlled environment
who said lifes gonna be easy bro. Life is gonna be easy if you keep your eyes and mind shut but not if you dare to question. 
On the other hand maybe you are guest in a looney bin, then your argument is correct
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HostDisorder
Stranger


Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 529
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19003144 - 10/20/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think a lot of people on this forum can relate to you OP. Anyone who feels obligated beyond all measure to understand the truth of existence is, that type of mindset will struggle to connect with mindsets that are oblivious to the world around them and base their lives around materialistic ideology.
But as stated above, it's very important to treat these people with compassion and understanding rather than with disdain and misanthropy, I've been doing the latter for a while all it's done is turned me into a miserable recluse.
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Universe
Friend


Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 1,161
Last seen: 22 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19003155 - 10/20/13 09:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Don't be down for feeling alienated from the mainstream clique. Those people give an appearance of unity, like they're all on the same page, but they're not. Most of them feel alienated, probably even more than you.. but they feel alienated from each other. People are so good at putting on a happy show, because that's all they have. It's like a raincoat to protect and disguise what's really going on inside. Be happy that psychedelics have given you the ability to see the big picture. Those people can't see past their noses. Meanwhile, all of their energy is put into the meaningless task of trying to determine and effect their standing within their group. I left all that behind when I was 16.
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 299
Last seen: 11 months, 16 hours
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Universe]
#19003410 - 10/20/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Amazing replies Glad to see that so many people can relate to this feeling. It really saddens me that the world is this way - when I first tripped I felt like I had found some massive secret and it astonished me that mushrooms aren't more widely used: its a testament to how f*cked our society is! :P You guys have certainly influenced my opinions - i guess I have seen now that misanthropy is perhaps the easy option when really the most productive thing I can do is empathize & try to help others in the same way I was helped.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19003438 - 10/20/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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psilocybinjunkie
relaxin



Registered: 03/17/01
Posts: 14,515
Last seen: 2 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19003557 - 10/20/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tombc1 said: Hey. Over the past couple of years I have been reborn due to psychedelics - I am a completely different person now and my mind works in a drastically different way to how it used to and how everyone else's around me does. I go to a college which connects to a high school which means masses of brainwashed trend-following idiots - even the teachers are only slightly better. I have begun to feel very alienated from almost everyone except my very close friends, just due to how different we are. Everybody succumbs to petty argument, bullies one another, focuses on physical appearance... everyone around me just seems to be living according to that capitalist programming. I am not sure if it is mushrooms making me realize i'm the only sane one, or mushrooms making me insane without me realizing... please help - has anyone else had this feeling before? 
Well it's probably good you don't feel in tune with petty sheep and have a follow the trend mentality. Individualism and honesty are very much disliked and heavily frowned upon in our society. So you're not a mindless conformist, that's nothing to be ashamed of. The immature and petty people are the ones who have shame, but they don't. Absolutely no reason for you to get sucked in with a crowed zombies that lets TV do their thinking for them. Enjoy your friends and your ability to make your own decisions.
GL!
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Gratuitous Grace

Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 21
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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"Had this feeling before?" Sure, of course. Out of synch with society. That said, I don't think you need to go to the extreme of perfect sanity versus insanity to make sense of it. You've spent a couple of apparently productive years getting things sorted out with the help of psychedelics. Awesome! The world is obviously going to look different through the lens of the lessons you've "brought back." The key (it seems to me) is in finding ways of adapting those lessons to fit your earthly situation. 'Cause, as much as we may wish we lived "out there," we just don't. It's kind of an awful thing to come to grips with, actually. That is, wishing life were the blissed out experience that we (can) get with the help of chemicals ... and realizing that it's just unsustainable. There's always something or someone willing to bring us back down, right? If you have some very good friends, then it seems to me that you're way ahead of the game. I've seen people in your situation cut ties with absolutely everyone. Not good. You can't be close with "society" -- it just doesn't work that way -- so maybe it's best to focus your energy on the positive people whom you consider kindred spirits. That should be satisfying enough?
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 299
Last seen: 11 months, 16 hours
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Quote:
Gratuitous Grace said: "Had this feeling before?" Sure, of course. Out of synch with society. That said, I don't think you need to go to the extreme of perfect sanity versus insanity to make sense of it. You've spent a couple of apparently productive years getting things sorted out with the help of psychedelics. Awesome! The world is obviously going to look different through the lens of the lessons you've "brought back." The key (it seems to me) is in finding ways of adapting those lessons to fit your earthly situation. 'Cause, as much as we may wish we lived "out there," we just don't. It's kind of an awful thing to come to grips with, actually. That is, wishing life were the blissed out experience that we (can) get with the help of chemicals ... and realizing that it's just unsustainable. There's always something or someone willing to bring us back down, right? If you have some very good friends, then it seems to me that you're way ahead of the game. I've seen people in your situation cut ties with absolutely everyone. Not good. You can't be close with "society" -- it just doesn't work that way -- so maybe it's best to focus your energy on the positive people whom you consider kindred spirits. That should be satisfying enough?
The problem is that even some of my close friends aren't much more open or free-thinking or anything than the regular joe - I find it hard to relate to some of them as well; they are just slightly more intelligent than the rest :P
Edited by Tombc1 (10/22/13 09:14 AM)
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HostDisorder
Stranger


Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 529
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19004504 - 10/20/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tombc1 said:
Quote:
Gratuitous Grace said: "Had this feeling before?" Sure, of course. Out of synch with society. That said, I don't think you need to go to the extreme of perfect sanity versus insanity to make sense of it. You've spent a couple of apparently productive years getting things sorted out with the help of psychedelics. Awesome! The world is obviously going to look different through the lens of the lessons you've "brought back." The key (it seems to me) is in finding ways of adapting those lessons to fit your earthly situation. 'Cause, as much as we may wish we lived "out there," we just don't. It's kind of an awful thing to come to grips with, actually. That is, wishing life were the blissed out experience that we (can) get with the help of chemicals ... and realizing that it's just unsustainable. There's always something or someone willing to bring us back down, right? If you have some very good friends, then it seems to me that you're way ahead of the game. I've seen people in your situation cut ties with absolutely everyone. Not good. You can't be close with "society" -- it just doesn't work that way -- so maybe it's best to focus your energy on the positive people whom you consider kindred spirits. That should be satisfying enough?
The problem is that even my close friends aren't much more open or free-thinking or anything than the regular joe - I find it hard to relate to them as well; they are just slightly more intelligent than the rest :P
Absolutely my problem also, difficult to find groups of similar minded people, don't even know where to start.
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j_db69
Forever learning shaman



Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 897
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19004536 - 10/20/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are you craving social interaction? Do you feel it is an important aspect of (whatever it is that you believe we are experiencing)?
I think we have lots of left over, evolutionary traits, such as the desire for social interaction. When those were forming, they were necessary for survival. People cling to them, especially when they do not understand, either b/c they can't, or won't.
But sadly, we do have to play the game that society has deemed "normal". One good thing is that will be easier for you and it will let you do the things that can bring you real joy.
Anything you can do to help others understand, either through knowledge or kindness, would be helpful to us ALL. I think we can all agree this place needs more of those kinds of people.
and hey, there is always the internet to bring you closer to like minded individuals what are YOU going to do with your understanding???
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: HostDisorder]
#19004569 - 10/20/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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...
Edited by rikuni (03/16/14 05:20 AM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19004612 - 10/20/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tombc1 said: Hey. Over the past couple of years I have been reborn due to psychedelics - I am a completely different person now and my mind works in a drastically different way to how it used to and how everyone else's around me does. I go to a college which connects to a high school which means masses of brainwashed trend-following idiots - even the teachers are only slightly better. I have begun to feel very alienated from almost everyone except my very close friends, just due to how different we are. Everybody succumbs to petty argument, bullies one another, focuses on physical appearance... everyone around me just seems to be living according to that capitalist programming. I am not sure if it is mushrooms making me realize i'm the only sane one, or mushrooms making me insane without me realizing... please help - has anyone else had this feeling before? 
That's life amongst the empty shells. Fortunately (unfortunately?) you no longer qualify. It's a hard step to take, but necessary. You just gotta rise above it, it can help if you just recognize there's nothing wrong with you. 
Illegitimi non carborundum.
But as the Buddha said, first have compassion. They don't know what they are, and you do. That's a significant difference. Just recognize that not everybody - not even your best friends - want that kind of knowledge. Use it for good and to raise them up whenever the opportunity presents itself.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (10/20/13 04:17 PM)
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 299
Last seen: 11 months, 16 hours
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: j_db69]
#19004641 - 10/20/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
j_db69 said: Are you craving social interaction? Do you feel it is an important aspect of (whatever it is that you believe we are experiencing)?
I think we have lots of left over, evolutionary traits, such as the desire for social interaction. When those were forming, they were necessary for survival. People cling to them, especially when they do not understand, either b/c they can't, or won't.
But sadly, we do have to play the game that society has deemed "normal". One good thing is that will be easier for you and it will let you do the things that can bring you real joy.
Anything you can do to help others understand, either through knowledge or kindness, would be helpful to us ALL. I think we can all agree this place needs more of those kinds of people.
and hey, there is always the internet to bring you closer to like minded individuals what are YOU going to do with your understanding???
I do not crave social interaction - in fact, I generally detest it, however, I am forced to interact socially on a daily basis due to the premise of this post; I attend college, it is impossible to simply ignore everybody. I would be treated very poorly if I decided my own company is the only company :P
Besides, I am not arrogant enough to assume I have nothing to learn from others - there are interesting people and there are likeminded people, its just very difficult to find a group of them in such a small place, like the one I live in.
Edited by Tombc1 (10/20/13 04:19 PM)
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Fungi
Psycho4ctive


Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 393
Loc: Melbourne
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19005643 - 10/20/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mushrooms changed my diet and lifestyle around completely or at least they had a big influence. I've cut out all red meat and now eat mostly raw vegan. It also raised my consciousness about our bullshit health system, Big Pharma and made me aware why anti depressants which kill people are legal while weed is illegal. There is more but you get the picture.
Would love to live somewhere warm and away from the mainstream "society".
-------------------- Formerly known as Psycho4ctive To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic, Just Take a Pinch of Psychedelic
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Hygrocybe
Walkin Wonderland



Registered: 06/06/09
Posts: 1,227
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Fungi]
#19005791 - 10/20/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alienation can become an identity.
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Dreaming Nomad
Psyborg



Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 908
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Hygrocybe]
#19005897 - 10/20/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Does thinking you're the last sane person on the planet make you crazy? Cause if so...
The feeling is mutual here. Glad to know I'm not the only one. Don't get me wrong I'm not one to judge and I do enjoy and learn from the company of others. I just can't help but to wonder how aware some people even are exactly, and like-minded individuals don't seem too common (the shroomery is one exception). But hey, it's the only game in town. Until first contact anyways then I'm gone!
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They say curiosity killed the cat... Fortunately, I am not a cat.
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Gratuitous Grace

Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 21
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: HostDisorder]
#19007995 - 10/21/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
HostDisorder said:
Quote:
Tombc1 said:
Quote:
Gratuitous Grace said: "Had this feeling before?" Sure, of course. Out of synch with society. That said, I don't think you need to go to the extreme of perfect sanity versus insanity to make sense of it. You've spent a couple of apparently productive years getting things sorted out with the help of psychedelics. Awesome! The world is obviously going to look different through the lens of the lessons you've "brought back." The key (it seems to me) is in finding ways of adapting those lessons to fit your earthly situation. 'Cause, as much as we may wish we lived "out there," we just don't. It's kind of an awful thing to come to grips with, actually. That is, wishing life were the blissed out experience that we (can) get with the help of chemicals ... and realizing that it's just unsustainable. There's always something or someone willing to bring us back down, right? If you have some very good friends, then it seems to me that you're way ahead of the game. I've seen people in your situation cut ties with absolutely everyone. Not good. You can't be close with "society" -- it just doesn't work that way -- so maybe it's best to focus your energy on the positive people whom you consider kindred spirits. That should be satisfying enough?
The problem is that even my close friends aren't much more open or free-thinking or anything than the regular joe - I find it hard to relate to them as well; they are just slightly more intelligent than the rest :P
Absolutely my problem also, difficult to find groups of similar minded people, don't even know where to start.
Hell yeah, it's a problem! LOL! You can't come back from where we've been, with the lessons we've learned, knowing what we now know ... and turn on the Giants game? For some reason, I'm reminded of that Buddhist saying, "better not to start; once you start, better to finish." This isn't the easy road, folks. But, we're on it now ... going back isn't an option (even if some of us might want that option) ... and the only way forward is forward. (I suppose you could stand still, too. That's the "cutting all ties" approach I mentioned. But, that would be a shame, I think.)
This is tough. Since no one knows where anyone lives, it's hard to give specific suggestions on "where to start." Even before the "where" of it, though, there's the *prerequisite* of being really friendly, open, honest, considerate, and caring. Without that, there's no chance. Once there, maybe start looking outside of the usual suspects -- like, beyond family, friends, school? There's got to be a used bookstore in town, a weekly poetry reading somewhere, a vintage clothing shop, an independent newspaper, a record store, a weird cafe, an activist organization, a club with live music, a guy fixing his VW bus, an ashram or someplace devoted to eastern thought, a garage with cool motorcycles out front, some skydivers, a few people living under the bridge ... IDK what you're going to find in your community. But, there's gotta be *something* going on there. No offense, but I just can't believe that any one of you is the *only* guy in town who's turned on and tuned in ... LOL! There are a couple of others. You may not get to describe your best acid trip the afternoon you meet some of these folks. You may never get to do that. But, you'll run into real people doing real stuff that they care deeply about -- and who aren't in it (their activity, their relationships, LIFE) solely for the money. That's good enough it seems to me.
Practically speaking, what I've learned is that "how are you?" gets you somewhere; but "hey, it looks like you've got something pretty interesting going on here ... is there some way I could get involved?" gets you a lot further. Just think about that statement/question in all of the hypothetical contexts I rattled off above. It's a demonstration of your interest, it scores you big personality points, it moves every situation forward, and it will get you in with like-minded people. And the beautiful thing about approaching situations this way is that you're going in with the perfect self-selection tool. Get a negative response? That's cool ... because the reality becomes clear -- whatever was going on actually wasn't that interesting and, in retrospect, you wouldn't have been happy getting involved. Get a positive response? You're in, and who knows where something like that could lead?
The more I type, the more I think this might be more of a "how" problem than a "where" problem. IDK ... if I'm wrong, just tell me and I'll try again.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19008069 - 10/21/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tombc1 said: Hey. Over the past couple of years I have been reborn due to psychedelics - I am a completely different person now and my mind works in a drastically different way to how it used to and how everyone else's around me does. I go to a college which connects to a high school which means masses of brainwashed trend-following idiots - even the teachers are only slightly better. I have begun to feel very alienated from almost everyone except my very close friends, just due to how different we are. Everybody succumbs to petty argument, bullies one another, focuses on physical appearance... everyone around me just seems to be living according to that capitalist programming. I am not sure if it is mushrooms making me realize i'm the only sane one, or mushrooms making me insane without me realizing... please help - has anyone else had this feeling before? 
Instead of focusing on the things that separate you from these people, I would suggest focusing on ways to connect with these people. Share what you have with them. Sure they aren't ready to have psychedelics shared with them, but share a smile, or a funny story. Try to connect with whoever you can. Maybe you could be the positive influence that makes all the difference in helping some of them wake up to who they really are.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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World of Echo

Registered: 09/14/11
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman] 1
#19008141 - 10/21/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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IME once you have this wisdom, you must live by it, display it. share it in your actions. judgement free, always loving. people you interact with will notice. they will be grateful. they may ask why you are always so "chill". just smile once you Understand , you cannot go back. careful , some will try to prey on your kindness.
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j_db69
Forever learning shaman



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19008173 - 10/21/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The only problem with "connecting" to these other people, is that you will just have to bring yourself down to their level of understanding and it gets... boring. Plus these people either can't or won't see what you are trying to show them, so what's the point? sure if they NEED you, then you could be there.
Like someone above said, once you see, you can't unsee. others may not want to do that, as life become much harder, but it is the only way out. The others will be here over and over and over.
Does it strike anyone else as odd, that most people who understand, are spread out pretty evenly, and there is a kind of repulsion when you meet someone, like forces repel or something lol a gradual pushing away from both sides...
I don't think I could be married to someone just like me, that is for sure I guess the saying, "opposites attract" is truthful
-------------------- One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious. --Jung
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ImFukNCLUELESS
I SPIT ON PEOPLE


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I too have become a very introverted person since devoleping into what i consider a true "pyschonaut" as in a person that uses pyshedelics as a means to better understand and improve ones self
I use to be one of the cogs in society with a bunch of meaningless relationships thinking what was inportant was what material goods or what kind of car one drove and in a matter of 2yrs i have completly wrote off all the meaningless bullshit friends, got rid of the nice cars,moved into a smaller house and paid it off
No longer am i a zombie i have a very small circle of friends that are more family than friends the kind that never would judge for actions of another. Im full of indivisualism and unfortuntly or the way i see it luckly view todays society for what it is full of propiganda,rude,and wasteful That i choose no longer to be part of Be thankful for having the ability of freethinking and the clarity to see life as what i is *Good Vibes*
--------------------
how to pass a drug test FOO MAN'S WBS TEK damions5050's coir tek DONATE TO THE "IM FUCKING BROKE FUND" 1PtqhURaxtCpGpeUBNqeZi7XnmKwWe8WWf "my girl said it's OK to have a little penis I prefer she didnt have a penis at all"-prisoner#1
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rickjamez20
Shroomer



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Quote:
World of Echo said: IME once you have this wisdom, you must live by it, display it. share it in your actions. judgement free, always loving. people you interact with will notice. they will be grateful. they may ask why you are always so "chill". just smile once you Understand , you cannot go back. careful , some will try to prey on your kindness.
I've noticed this, through the many trips I've had they really have chilled me out so to speak. I hardly ever get mad or yell anymore, you'd have to do something really fucked up to me in order for me to get violent or angry. I've had friends say they've never seen me angry before
-------------------- http://iacopoapps.appspot.com/hopalongwebgl/ https://www.outpan.com/app/44bdd9869c/interactive-fluid-simulation - If you're tripping click here. Thank me later. Every single person deserves a psychedelic experience, make it happen.
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tokerL
Registered: 09/24/13
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rickjamez20]
#19008598 - 10/21/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah, to hell with the sheeple, i like GE maize... i feel like a monk with the inside knowledge or a perception manager selectively conveying or withholding information to engineer your consent and control you. Maybe you just have autism living on the "edges of the known world" and can't handle the dishonest Neuro Typcials living in a madison avenue airbrush the details fake reality
When I was a child I always thought I didn't fit in and preached about healthy raw diets and ethical practices long before i went on a Hero Journey on drug mushrooms but people Grow Up, people learn to turn off their empathy while buying Chinese Slave goods... Freedom rules and the freedom to persuade people is Freedom and I like the way people are now but don't worry Icke says the global awakening is happening and no form of Supression Tactics is going to stop it
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GoldenEye
...



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Quote:
World of Echo said: people you interact with will notice. they will be grateful. they may ask why you are always so "chill". just smile.
This right here is the recipe of awesomeness.
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: GoldenEye] 1
#19008931 - 10/21/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have taken much of this advice under wing; I spent most of my day in college speaking to people I usually wouldn't, smiling at strangers.. just trying to be a positive force in any given scenario. It was enough in the moment to know that I was making a small difference. I can really relate to a lot of the posts here, really sounds like you're reading my mind :')
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19008973 - 10/21/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The universe is friendly to those who are friendly. The universe shuns those who shun others. Sounds like you're doing it right. Good job OP
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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World of Echo

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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19009005 - 10/21/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Everyday my friend, everyday. soon you won't know any other way. Cheers to you, op! 
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



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Quote:
World of Echo said: Everyday my friend, everyday. soon you won't know any other way. Cheers to you, op!  
Thanks! I feel like a pathway has been opened up that was otherwise obscured, as ridiculous as I feel saying that. I guess I just needed to know I wasn't the only one The replies are very much appreciated
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World of Echo

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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19009105 - 10/21/13 03:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just remember the feeling., live by it. don't lose sight. don't let the society make you bitter. enjoy yourself
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Quote:
I feel like a pathway has been opened up that was otherwise obscured, as ridiculous as I feel saying that.
You might feel strange saying it, but that's the reality. If you look into any of the original texts of valid spiritual practices, you'll find this very same thing described. The door opens and you step through it - and you can do this anytime and all the time. 
PS
PS hey I was gonna write a much more complicated reply but you saved me from doing that.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
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Loc: Boston
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19010399 - 10/21/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: The universe is friendly to those who are friendly. The universe shuns those who shun others. Sounds like you're doing it right. Good job OP
This. Everyone seems to get what they signed up for aka deserve
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger

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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19010418 - 10/21/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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OP, if anyone tells you the message of unity and love is insane, then fear not they are the insane ones. A majority of people engage in petty and often pointlessly disturbing behavior
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sof4r0ckeRs1984



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19010481 - 10/21/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's like this: The mighty men in humanity don't want people to see the big picture, they want them to fit IN the picture somehow as small units. It has been like that for so long. Divide and reign. And most people are used to be divided and defined so they won't do shit changing status quo as long as they can cope with it.
Like for example only when you study engineering (Sorry Roger ^^) and go into research you do really have an overlook over the matter that you're working with and then you can change something about the way things work. It was like that for thousands of years now. Science today is in such an a priori state that you won't hardly ever be able to invent something new without being a pretty a priori thinker.
I don't say science is evil, but science will make none happy. Many smart young people start studying, thinking they can change the world and become famous and one day they see that they have only become a small part in a big machine. It's pretty much always like that, but we have to cope with that.
I go as far as saying that there is spring, summer, autumn and winter in life and that life looks pretty shitty if you don't believe in jesus or in reincarnation or something like that. Otherwise the winter seems pretty much unbearable to me.
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tokerL
Registered: 09/24/13
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what about all the scoundrels who lived 100+ years why did they not reap what they sowed? maybe ECCO just doesnt give a shit about you
and says you aren't complicit
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sof4r0ckeRs1984



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: tokerL] 2
#19010646 - 10/21/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's not about giving more days to your life, but giving more life to your days.
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GoldenEye
...



Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
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I'm proud.
Such an underused yet awesome emotion. I try to be proud of many little achievements, whether they are mine or somebody else's.
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: GoldenEye]
#19012219 - 10/22/13 05:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just wait until your first couple of Ayahuasca experiences 
Almost every day I have some kind of similar thoughts to OP, and am reminded of Lao Zi, a very wise smart and clever man, who disillusioned with his mainstream fellow Chinese people, had to one day get on his buffalo, say fuck it all, that's it, I'm going anywhere but here.
I'm not sure how many years it will take me to relocate to either the Netherlands or South America, but I find the mainstream non-psychedelic world so utterly boring and misguided, that it's just a given for me that I can find no other way long term. It's a huge disconnect IMO, between the two groups.
Maybe in time I'll learn to tolerate the mainstream clearheads better, but for now it's
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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HostDisorder
Stranger


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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19012355 - 10/22/13 07:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think the hardest thing about awkening, enlightenment, whatever, is integrating into every day life. I don't feel I've ever successfully done that, because one forgets that most of the people of whom you interact with are on a completely different mental plane to you, and there is always that strong dissonance, and you realise that you just have to smile and keep it to yourself, they don't give a fuck and would rather know how much weight Jennifer Anniston has put on over the summer.
Neither of us are superior or inferior though, thats the fucking trap we fall into, feeling superior because we've 'seen it' so to speak. At the end of the day, i think we genuinely are the brahman in disguise no matter if you realise this or you don't in your life time, and as Watts explained: the 'squares' don't ever need to be taught or converted, they're just playing the game of hide and seek SO well, that they've forgotten who they are, they're just so far out. Lmao.
I reckon for most people, they will be slapped in the face with the truth on their death bed, when they realise there is no one in control. There never was or will be.
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: HostDisorder]
#19012396 - 10/22/13 07:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
HostDisorder said: I think the hardest thing about awkening, enlightenment, whatever, is integrating into every day life. I don't feel I've ever successfully done that, because one forgets that most of the people of whom you interact with are on a completely different mental plane to you, and there is always that strong dissonance, and you realise that you just have to smile and keep it to yourself, they don't give a fuck and would rather know how much weight Jennifer Anniston has put on over the summer.
Neither of us are superior or inferior though, thats the fucking trap we fall into, feeling superior because we've 'seen it' so to speak. At the end of the day, i think we genuinely are the brahman in disguise no matter if you realise this or you don't in your life time, and as Watts explained: the 'squares' don't ever need to be taught or converted, they're just playing the game of hide and seek SO well, that they've forgotten who they are, they're just so far out. Lmao.
I reckon for most people, they will be slapped in the face with the truth on their death bed, when they realise there is no one in control. There never was or will be.
Ah so many feels that I feel. The thing which makes it worse in my situation is that I live amongst high school students - without a doubt THE most brainwashed and the ones which fit into our 'square' shape the best. People who will fucking despise somebody simply because they wear a headband to school or something petty like that... It is horrible to witness all the hate that goes around simply because people can't tolerate anyone who isn't exactly like them. It is disgusting that our education system seems to encourage this; my college teachers and peers assume that I am a dropout and a failure simply because of the way I dress, yet they soon realize I am one of the most intelligent people in the college..
The dissonance is massive; my mental plane differs so much from theirs that as far as they are concerned, I am on drugs constantly.
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger

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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19012507 - 10/22/13 08:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just keep on doing your thing man. I've got hair down to my nips and probably dress like a bumb a lot. Some days nothing but death metal shirts, other days i'm completely reverse, rocking the grateful dead or whatever. Rotating the same shirts every week. Rarely shave, I rarely talk to anyone. Anyone who's known me thought i was a stoner long before i did drugs... But i am thoroughly raping my college classes as far as scores go. With one exception that was a high b, all my test and essay scores the past few weeks have been 96 and above. Im probably going to finish up this biochem degree and then drop out into a yurt village where i recently did an ayahuasca ceremony. Schools easy for me but the more i go through with this life style the more i realize i hate it. I hate dealing with the people. All of them. I know this sounds incredibly pretentious, but it's just like everywhere i go. Like you said, people bitching about stupid shit. Judging for stupid shit. Uptight about stupid shit. I'm tired of the merit of my work and intelligence being docked for dumb things like formatting disagreement when the entire department can't even come to a consensus of how a lab report should be written. I'm tired of dealing with text book scientists who can only repeat what they learn without learning to actually read into nature. I'm tired of the dicks pretending that global warming is a hoax for personal monetary gain that will get them absolutely nowhere when our ecosystem is completely reformatted. Tired of the mass hypocrisy and on and on and on
To be alienated from this society, is to be liberated imo. This world is such a beautiful place and humans are such shitheads.
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EmL



Registered: 01/27/13
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Amen to that brother!

This thread have been of great help to me since I too feel alienated, even from some of my closest family & friends. I don't want to live the typical perfect citizen life and this thinking began long before I tried any drug. Psychedelics have helped me to see that it is possible to live a good life away from our mainstream society and I am happy to see that I am clearly not alone.
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Spacerific
- - - >


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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: HostDisorder]
#19012644 - 10/22/13 08:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
HostDisorder said: Neither of us are superior or inferior though, thats the fucking trap we fall into, feeling superior because we've 'seen it' so to speak. At the end of the day, i think we genuinely are the brahman in disguise no matter if you realise this or you don't in your life time, and as Watts explained: the 'squares' don't ever need to be taught or converted, they're just playing the game of hide and seek SO well, that they've forgotten who they are, they're just so far out. Lmao.
It's not about converting all squares, replacing one monoculture belief system with another. It's about finding a large enough community of people with similar beliefs, so that you're not completely alienated. I for one have had serious problems coming back from festivals, where many people "get" me and the lifestyle I prefer, back into white Christian mainstream areas that I have less and less in common with
Ecosystems are healthy when they have some variety, and right now there's a strong imbalance against psychedelic tendencies, psychedelic-inspired lifestyles. If you have 99% of religious establishments in an area belonging to one of the Abrahamic religions, no wiccans no ashrams no temples no psychedelics no anything, it's a bit over the top IMO.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19012655 - 10/22/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I always try to bring the love I feel generated at festivals back into the real world with me. Festivals are an interesting phenomenon, and how we process them is as well. It's really easy for everyone to be all kind and nice for a weekend infused with love enhancing drugs and music and stuff. The challenge lies in integrating that love into our daily lives. Otherwise it's just a cop out IMO.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19012676 - 10/22/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: I always try to bring the love I feel generated at festivals back into the real world with me. Festivals are an interesting phenomenon, and how we process them is as well. It's really easy for everyone to be all kind and nice for a weekend infused with love enhancing drugs and music and stuff. The challenge lies in integrating that love into our daily lives. Otherwise it's just a cop out IMO.
you should see how "unhappy" or worse (full of hate)etc. people here in germany are... Your challenge might be a too damn hard to do.
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger

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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19012679 - 10/22/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: I always try to bring the love I feel generated at festivals back into the real world with me. Festivals are an interesting phenomenon, and how we process them is as well. It's really easy for everyone to be all kind and nice for a weekend infused with love enhancing drugs and music and stuff. The challenge lies in integrating that love into our daily lives. Otherwise it's just a cop out IMO.
This. But it is so so so hard that i have nearly given up this last time around. TBH though i think it would benefit many of us to get involved in psychedelic communities. The people i took ayahuasca with, i realized felt extremely safe to me and those are the people i need to start surrounding myself with.
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
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Quote:
JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:
nicechrisman said: I always try to bring the love I feel generated at festivals back into the real world with me. Festivals are an interesting phenomenon, and how we process them is as well. It's really easy for everyone to be all kind and nice for a weekend infused with love enhancing drugs and music and stuff. The challenge lies in integrating that love into our daily lives. Otherwise it's just a cop out IMO.
This. But it is so so so hard that i have nearly given up this last time around. TBH though i think it would benefit many of us to get involved in psychedelic communities. The people i took ayahuasca with, i realized felt extremely safe to me and those are the people i need to start surrounding myself with.
I need to find some of said people
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19012707 - 10/22/13 09:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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...
Edited by rikuni (03/16/14 05:20 AM)
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sof4r0ckeRs1984



Registered: 07/30/10
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19013046 - 10/22/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The squares are just the red lights that the wolves above put in your way. The snakes spit poison and throw their dead skins after you. There are people far worse than the squares. Don't think that because you're going to University soon you will meet better people. It's rather the opposite! The smarter the people are, the better they understand to have fun, the better they play, the worse it gets. Don't even think people into psychs are better people. Like this conversation that is held by like 0.1% of all shroomery members, imagine what this means in the real world.
To be honest, I wouldn't search for anyone out there. I'd wait until I met the right people rather than trying to bond to some cliques and try hard to be a part of them.
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19013098 - 10/22/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: I always try to bring the love I feel generated at festivals back into the real world with me. Festivals are an interesting phenomenon, and how we process them is as well. It's really easy for everyone to be all kind and nice for a weekend infused with love enhancing drugs and music and stuff. The challenge lies in integrating that love into our daily lives. Otherwise it's just a cop out IMO.
I know and I am trying as well. I will wear my Boom 2012 bracelet for as long as I have my right hand 
I think the festivals are the budding of a new type of spiritual experience, and sooner or later it WILL push psychedelics into responsible mainstream use, like religious contexts and research / learning / problem solving / therapy.
I also plan to volunteer with teams that organize festivals starting with 2014. As an artist it's a good move anyway.
That being said until the festival season and volunteering time comes around, I am having serious difficulties being surrounded with 100% clearheads where I live now. Only benefit is that it motivates me to earn enough to afford some stay in the Netherlands, and hopefully one day move there.
Quote:
rikuni said:
Quote:
Tombc1 said:
Quote:
JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:
nicechrisman said: I always try to bring the love I feel generated at festivals back into the real world with me. Festivals are an interesting phenomenon, and how we process them is as well. It's really easy for everyone to be all kind and nice for a weekend infused with love enhancing drugs and music and stuff. The challenge lies in integrating that love into our daily lives. Otherwise it's just a cop out IMO.
This. But it is so so so hard that i have nearly given up this last time around. TBH though i think it would benefit many of us to get involved in psychedelic communities. The people i took ayahuasca with, i realized felt extremely safe to me and those are the people i need to start surrounding myself with.
I need to find some of said people 
next to impossible to find, I have tried. Im not speaking of the retreats where you can go for a weekend while paying good cash.. they are easy to find.
Just a quick reminder, in the Netherlands Santo Daime is perfectly legal. santodaime.nl for details. 30 euro for a ceremony. Stay away from the Dance Works
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19013806 - 10/22/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think the festivals are the budding of a new type of spiritual experience, and sooner or later it WILL push psychedelics into responsible mainstream use, like religious contexts and research / learning / problem solving / therapy.
Doubtful that anything will ever push psychedelics into "responsible" mainstream use - whatever the fuck that might be - because of the one unbreachable barrier to widespread psychedelic use: the majority of people are scared shitless by any exposure to mental change. They like what they are, and they don't want to know more or feel more or be more.
What MIGHT happen someday is big pharma extracting certain aspects of psychedelic side effects and repackaging them molecularly for profit. It's been done before. But don't hold your breath that a majority of people will somehow come to embrace changing their minds for the better. 
As always, these changes are down to the individual, and since that's the only one you have even the remotest possibility of actual influencing, that's where you do the work. The rest are not on you, as hard as it might be to see. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19015054 - 10/22/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Having seen Santo Daime getting accepted in the Netherlands, I do believe there is hope. If people let themselves be drawn into purely shit ideas like crystal meth, PCP, booze and smoking, I'm pretty sure there are plenty who will follow positive examples as well, and come to partake. These things happen slowly. I imagine if your parent / spouse / role model of any sort is a Santo Daime member for instance, chances are you'll try it out as well at some point, especially if it's socially acceptable. If one of the religions gets accepted into mainstream (and again, in the Netherlands it's already there) this opens the way for others also.
I'm pretty sure sooner or later people will "get" that psychedelics go really well with innovation, design, patents and these things are directly linked to profit and market share. So at some point corporate interests will have no choice but to support their use, for their own people, as they do give a competitive edge in certain fields. Maybe it'll take decades maybe more, but we'll get there I think. Truth eventually comes out.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19016720 - 10/22/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Possibly. Psychedelics have been around for a long time, though. But just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen sometime. But does it really matter? IME just trying to apply mushrooms for writing mostly, it was a hard sell to convince anybody else that they really are facilitators.
There doesn't have to be corporate acceptance - in fact, that would probably be the worst possible thing that could happen, to have your sacrament commercialized. And I suspect psychedelic backlash will undermine any corporate attempts - purely for profit - to utilize such substances as well. They aren't pets, and they won't be slaves. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19017503 - 10/23/13 03:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I use them for making art, and I'm pretty sure it's only my lack of technical skills (ability to paint what I see internally, and lack of experience with art promotion) that's keeping me from making crazy bank. But those are both learnable skills so it's only a matter of time. What psychs bring to the table however, that's IMO definitely not learnable skill, and you can't simply copy and learn your way into making that kind of art.
Not sure how it is for writing, but certainly the chances of one getting very original ideas that have never been considered before, is significantly higher with psychs than without. Not 100%, but much much higher.
I don't think there's much to commercialize. If designers, architects and so on, will catch on to the fact that psychs improve certain kinds of cognition / creative processes, and improve them significantly, they might simply become part of the design process, at least for some people. Maybe it's just a segment, like maybe only fellow trippers can even appreciate that kind of architecture properly, so it will be catering to a segment of the market, not all of it.
Look at Hundertwasser architecture for instance. I love it, many people do, but I don't think it's everybody's cup of tea.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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HostDisorder
Stranger


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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19017722 - 10/23/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spacerific said: I use them for making art, and I'm pretty sure it's only my lack of technical skills (ability to paint what I see internally, and lack of experience with art promotion) that's keeping me from making crazy bank. But those are both learnable skills so it's only a matter of time. What psychs bring to the table however, that's IMO definitely not learnable skill, and you can't simply copy and learn your way into making that kind of art.
Not sure how it is for writing, but certainly the chances of one getting very original ideas that have never been considered before, is significantly higher with psychs than without. Not 100%, but much much higher.
I don't think there's much to commercialize. If designers, architects and so on, will catch on to the fact that psychs improve certain kinds of cognition / creative processes, and improve them significantly, they might simply become part of the design process, at least for some people. Maybe it's just a segment, like maybe only fellow trippers can even appreciate that kind of architecture properly, so it will be catering to a segment of the market, not all of it.
Look at Hundertwasser architecture for instance. I love it, many people do, but I don't think it's everybody's cup of tea.
Which particular psychs do you find lend themselves best towards creativity? I suppose the dose can't be heavy? And also, when you've sobered up, do the ideas that arose in your trip still seem innovative?
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: HostDisorder]
#19017853 - 10/23/13 07:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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OP im sure many have said something like this but just let me say that if youre feeling alienated by society then that means youre doing SOMETHING right
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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necrobytez
Happiness is a decision :D



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#19018173 - 10/23/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yup i feel alienated everytime i get social.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19019051 - 10/23/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spacerific said: I use them for making art, and I'm pretty sure it's only my lack of technical skills (ability to paint what I see internally, and lack of experience with art promotion) that's keeping me from making crazy bank. But those are both learnable skills so it's only a matter of time. What psychs bring to the table however, that's IMO definitely not learnable skill, and you can't simply copy and learn your way into making that kind of art.
Not sure how it is for writing, but certainly the chances of one getting very original ideas that have never been considered before, is significantly higher with psychs than without. Not 100%, but much much higher.
I don't think there's much to commercialize. If designers, architects and so on, will catch on to the fact that psychs improve certain kinds of cognition / creative processes, and improve them significantly, they might simply become part of the design process, at least for some people. Maybe it's just a segment, like maybe only fellow trippers can even appreciate that kind of architecture properly, so it will be catering to a segment of the market, not all of it.
Look at Hundertwasser architecture for instance. I love it, many people do, but I don't think it's everybody's cup of tea.
A lot of people already know all of this. When you talk about "corporate" interests I assume you're talking about commercialization, nothing more. Sorry if I misunderstood.
What isn't widely known though are the more subtle aspects of psychs, in which I'm referring to mushrooms - which is my experience. Controlled studies could pick this stuff up. They haven't been done yet. If and when they are expect a vast increase in pharma interest.
Creativity is always a noble goal, BTW. 
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: HostDisorder]
#19019285 - 10/23/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
HostDisorder said:
Quote:
Spacerific said: I use them for making art, and I'm pretty sure it's only my lack of technical skills (ability to paint what I see internally, and lack of experience with art promotion) that's keeping me from making crazy bank. But those are both learnable skills so it's only a matter of time. What psychs bring to the table however, that's IMO definitely not learnable skill, and you can't simply copy and learn your way into making that kind of art.
Not sure how it is for writing, but certainly the chances of one getting very original ideas that have never been considered before, is significantly higher with psychs than without. Not 100%, but much much higher.
I don't think there's much to commercialize. If designers, architects and so on, will catch on to the fact that psychs improve certain kinds of cognition / creative processes, and improve them significantly, they might simply become part of the design process, at least for some people. Maybe it's just a segment, like maybe only fellow trippers can even appreciate that kind of architecture properly, so it will be catering to a segment of the market, not all of it.
Look at Hundertwasser architecture for instance. I love it, many people do, but I don't think it's everybody's cup of tea.
Which particular psychs do you find lend themselves best towards creativity? I suppose the dose can't be heavy? And also, when you've sobered up, do the ideas that arose in your trip still seem innovative?
Ayahuasca, mushrooms, acid, salvia, mescaline. I'd say Ibogaine because other artists have spoken well of it, but I haven't tried it myself yet so I don't know.
The dose can and should be quite high actually, if you want to get anywhere. But the thing is that your vision will tell you only in ways you can understand and know about. If you're a chemist, you'll get chemistry-related insights and idea. If you're an architect, you'll get architecture ideas. If you're a painter, you'll get painting ideas and so on. You have to have the training and ways of expression, to make something with the content that's shown to you.
Here read this article right here, see how this works.
Since I'm a painter I care most for visual arts and ideas that came from the psychedelic realm. Visionary art as it's called lately. But I have received specific info regarding architecture for instance, design, very 3D ideas, when simply asking the vision about painting. That's the value of these experiences, that you ask about one thing and they shift your attention in unpredictable ways, to consider very innovative interactions. Like in the case of a painting, the shape of the wall that it's on, the shape of the room, building and city that the building is in, etc. I asked a question about what to paint (in an Ayahuasca trip) and I got answers that included pretty much how to live the rest of my life, not just to put on one canvas. And they were the kind of answers that if I had any architecture training and experience, would rock our fucking world. Since I don't, I guess we'll have to wait for an architect to show up for that Aya 





Not saying Gaudi was into psychedelics, but his works certainly looks like something's up
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19019356 - 10/23/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Spacerific said: I use them for making art, and I'm pretty sure it's only my lack of technical skills (ability to paint what I see internally, and lack of experience with art promotion) that's keeping me from making crazy bank. But those are both learnable skills so it's only a matter of time. What psychs bring to the table however, that's IMO definitely not learnable skill, and you can't simply copy and learn your way into making that kind of art.
Not sure how it is for writing, but certainly the chances of one getting very original ideas that have never been considered before, is significantly higher with psychs than without. Not 100%, but much much higher.
I don't think there's much to commercialize. If designers, architects and so on, will catch on to the fact that psychs improve certain kinds of cognition / creative processes, and improve them significantly, they might simply become part of the design process, at least for some people. Maybe it's just a segment, like maybe only fellow trippers can even appreciate that kind of architecture properly, so it will be catering to a segment of the market, not all of it.
Look at Hundertwasser architecture for instance. I love it, many people do, but I don't think it's everybody's cup of tea.
A lot of people already know all of this. When you talk about "corporate" interests I assume you're talking about commercialization, nothing more. Sorry if I misunderstood.
What isn't widely known though are the more subtle aspects of psychs, in which I'm referring to mushrooms - which is my experience. Controlled studies could pick this stuff up. They haven't been done yet. If and when they are expect a vast increase in pharma interest.
Creativity is always a noble goal, BTW. 
PS
Well people might know of this in some vague generic way, but if they don't actually apply it in daily life and production processes, it's as if they didn't know at all.
I'm having my own struggles with my artistic training and whatever, so results for me personally are slow to show at this time, but I consider good deep proper tripping as vital to me as an artist, as would be good drawing, color mixing or observation skills.
In practice, I've put in several international trips for the specific purpose of strong psychedelic experiences, and plan to do this for the rest of my life, as much as I can afford it. Netherlands a few times until now, but much more once my budget will permit. I'm looking to go to Peru for example, because there's a certain kind of "art plant" there, an additive to Ayahuasca, that's basically supercharged Ayahuasca specifically for art and design purposes.
Now the question is why don't most world-class designers (of products, cars, industrial design etc, billion dollar businesses) know about this and actually send their best people over there to get this neural upgrade? Why don't they even go for regular Ayahuasca, although they have a legal option here in Europe for some years now? Because these professionals literally don't know it exists, haven't absorbed this fact into their day to day operations and design processes. Or training as a designer. They don't "get" how having a person boosted by this experience, would impact their bottom line over the next 20-30 years or creative endeavors.
And you do have to have the professional training and expertise as well. You won't be inventing LSD after a trip if you're not a chemist.
I expect professional designers and corporations of all sorts to get into this, because to a properly trained individual (artist, designer, chemist, researcher) a few cups of aya worth $50 could bring ideas worth billions, if properly implemented. The kind of benefits don't even come from one person taking them, but like the Internet, comes from the interactions of many people taking them and using those ideas. When the corporate world really "gets" this fact, IMO all this legal bullshit will vanish, because psychedelics properly used turn directly into profit.
That plant is out there. Largely unknown even to the people that know about Ayahuasca and psychs. I've seen art made after it. There wasn't much convincing to be done after I've seen the art. I know I have to save up and take it, for me it's not even optional.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19035591 - 10/26/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well people might know of this in some vague generic way, but if they don't actually apply it in daily life and production processes, it's as if they didn't know at all.
Obviously I'm not referring to ALL people, just SOME people.
The rest is, just do it. Don't set arbitrary limits on what you can do. 
And in answer to "why don't...send people...neural upgrade?" No fucking way is it that simple. The spectrum of side effects is complex and the rabbit hole is very deep. You have to be extremely motivated to make use of this stuff, and if you aren't that way, it just slaps your ass and tells you to go away. 
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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GreySatyr
Pagan-Psyche


Registered: 06/20/13
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19035822 - 10/26/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I went through this BAD for about a year. I dropped a shit ton of acid one Spring and then I moved and just felt how ridiculous society is. Yeah, it is really ridiculous but part of it is also you. I had to stop psychedelics for about ten months just to feel somewhat normal again. It's really hard to integrate your life changing experiences when uoufeelthis way and its easy to run and pretend its better to be somewhere else with other people when all you really need is to jump Ito society and lay your own foundation and just watch how many of those guilty bone heads agree with you on most topics but they don't have the will to change themselves because they haven't ever thunk a thought before until you put it into their minds.
The key is being assertive and not so damn passive like most psychedelic users are. Be aggressive in your change of life and show people the way, don't drop out of society but force your closest friends to look from a different view and in turn they will show others the way. You need to establish a sort of foundation within your circle of acquaintances instead of bein some passive introverted freak to them you must be a charismatic psychedelic savior. Take action, boy!
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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c0ntent_in_spac3
Higher being


Registered: 10/02/13
Posts: 22
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: GreySatyr]
#19036351 - 10/26/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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@Tombc1 aka OP
I've felt similar at one point and still do sometimes until I break it down.. We aren't "insane" by any means, thinking that is just ur own thought process convincing u that u are. We're simply just way more "connected to our surroundings" and aware of how stupid materialistic things are ect.. u get it my man! If anything everyone else are the insane ones.. so worried about following trends like u were saying, brain washed and caught up in relationships ect. They're so caught up in their own egos without even knowing it and we can see it all
So how does that make us "insane" per say?? Don't ever get it messed up like that. Any time u do feel that way think this, has always helped me....
"Your not insane, why do u even need your sanity? It's just another thing that keeps u from reality anyways"
And once u realize that and learn to let ur thoughts flow by and not think urself into madness like that.. lottttttsssssss of things about ur life will change for the better. U'll be loved by everybody for being more "real" than anyone else too. Eat clean, try to sleep right and treat ur body well.. a car can't be well maintained without the proper care. Be well my brother
-------------------- The ego tries to prove that we cannot change, undermining our ability to transcend obstacles
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19037104 - 10/26/13 06:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Well people might know of this in some vague generic way, but if they don't actually apply it in daily life and production processes, it's as if they didn't know at all.
Obviously I'm not referring to ALL people, just SOME people.
The rest is, just do it. Don't set arbitrary limits on what you can do. 
And in answer to "why don't...send people...neural upgrade?" No fucking way is it that simple. The spectrum of side effects is complex and the rabbit hole is very deep. You have to be extremely motivated to make use of this stuff, and if you aren't that way, it just slaps your ass and tells you to go away. 
PS
Well I only have my own experience to go by here, but here's my thinking: many designers / artists / engineers / whatever, are actually VERY involved in their profession. They DO put in massive amounts of time in reading, practicing, learning, training, so they DO have sincere desire. If the next step reads "ask the plant about it" I am sure many people would put in the time to ask it properly. If sent to a shaman, or even presented with the plant alone, I think many would get highly interesting answers. Shamans may say - go eat this specific diet for a week. Many people would do it. In the exact same way they learn to wear gloves and masks to avoid contaminations, they would learn to do this and do it right. If the requirements and benefits were more accurately known, many people would actually go the distance.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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sof4r0ckeRs1984



Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,886
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19037183 - 10/26/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just met somebody on the tram, he said he was son by profession. I wonder if his father was father by profession...
"I have rich parents and what can you do?"
Poor planet
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adastra80
Boss

Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 50
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19037222 - 10/26/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You have a point. Many people won't see like you do. Many people may not actually be enlightened. Just be careful. Sometimes it's a long fall off a high horse...
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sof4r0ckeRs1984



Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,886
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: adastra80]
#19037406 - 10/26/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Worse then falling is staying down.
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Hygrocybe
Walkin Wonderland



Registered: 06/06/09
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Post deleted by HygrocybeReason for deletion: poop
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Hygrocybe
Walkin Wonderland



Registered: 06/06/09
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Re: Feel alienated from society *DELETED* [Re: Hygrocybe]
#19037453 - 10/26/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by HygrocybeReason for deletion: pooppoop
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Hygrocybe]
#19037517 - 10/26/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hygro, breathe mate, everything is OK.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19037797 - 10/26/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spacerific said:Well I only have my own experience to go by here, but here's my thinking: many designers / artists / engineers / whatever, are actually VERY involved in their profession. They DO put in massive amounts of time in reading, practicing, learning, training, so they DO have sincere desire. If the next step reads "ask the plant about it" I am sure many people would put in the time to ask it properly. If sent to a shaman, or even presented with the plant alone, I think many would get highly interesting answers. Shamans may say - go eat this specific diet for a week. Many people would do it. In the exact same way they learn to wear gloves and masks to avoid contaminations, they would learn to do this and do it right. If the requirements and benefits were more accurately known, many people would actually go the distance.
Yeah, OK. I know I put the time into my couple of professions, and I know I want to see that time pay off somehow. As a writer, I'm AMAZED by the power of the mushrooms for opening the doors I need opened. Hands down, the single most useful tool I've ever used. And though it took me a while to figure out how to harness it, eventually I did. 
As a designer/builder/inventor of complex machinery and high-end (unspecified) products, well, not so unqualified an aid. I get most of what I get through endless amounts of concentration and occasional moments of inspiration. I have had multiple breakthrough insights into the design of (physical) devices that could be extremely useful in the world, if and when it becomes possible to build them. Not just your "billions of dollar" but literally "trillions of dollars" - basic world-changing hardware. But even being able to construct prototypes of some of this is still decades away, and entire technologies have to come into existence to make it possible. In some cases I have to invent new physics to make it possible. So how do I know if I'm constructing the distant future, or just receiving it through the multidimensional pathways the mushrooms can open? If I can get the patents then I'll go for the constructing version. 
So to address your point though, why IS it that this isn't better known? Could it be because of uneven results - for every Steve Jobs who allegedly used acid to engineer certain valuable things, are there millions of wanna-bes who never came up with squat? (And I don't hold Jobs in high esteem, BTW, by all accounts he was a professional asshole and not much better personally, and then he threw his life away ignoring mainstream medicine...) Maybe it doesn't matter, if the shit you come up with is good enough... 
OTOH if it doesn't make sense to anybody and it doesn't do anything cool, what's the point exactly? Just sayin'.
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19039783 - 10/27/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
So to address your point though, why IS it that this isn't better known? Could it be because of uneven results - for every Steve Jobs who allegedly used acid to engineer certain valuable things, are there millions of wanna-bes who never came up with squat?
Actually no. You put well trained professional people together with well organized psy experiences, patents come out.
I've also seen one of the scientists organizing the sessions in that study, in a documentary. Very worthwhile endeavor if you ask me.
Seeing what I've seen in the aya ceremonies and also shrooms and acid trips, I have no doubt these things can help tremendously with designing real functional products for a great future.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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GoldenEye
...



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Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19039829 - 10/27/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I recently saw that! It should be researched further.
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rikuni

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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: GoldenEye]
#19039853 - 10/27/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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man I do that research almost 6 months and its like freaking work. I just decided to take a psychedelic break because Im have no fun doing it just plain hard freaking work. Also the more you can connect the more you have to fucking process.. It came to a point for me where I was up 20h doing one thing after another all the time without a break. Did that for 2 weeks and was wasted.. But I guess I already have the shit to be a Millionaire and shit
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19040181 - 10/27/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
rikuni said: man I do that research almost 6 months and its like freaking work. I just decided to take a psychedelic break because Im have no fun doing it just plain hard freaking work. Also the more you can connect the more you have to fucking process.. It came to a point for me where I was up 20h doing one thing after another all the time without a break. Did that for 2 weeks and was wasted.. But I guess I already have the shit to be a Millionaire and shit 
Well I think there's a functional way to do that. Santo Daime people use it, Native Americans use it and so on. YOu trip one day, you don't trip and in fact process your visions for 1-2 weeks or whatever period. Then trip again, and repeat, regularly, consistently. Binge tripping probably won't work, you get burnout then be idle for months.
Also working in team is probably more effective than working solo. That's why they do these ceremonies and sweat lodges in groups.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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rikuni

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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19040234 - 10/27/13 10:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Also working in team is probably more effective than working solo. That's why they do these ceremonies and sweat lodges in groups.
Depends of what your planning to DO. Alone or group both has good and bad sides. 
But if you BADASS like me, you drink alone with insane dosages and channel thangs and stuff
That has some dangerous side effects sometimes.
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19040326 - 10/27/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well for one thing group meetings are regular. You yourself only do it when you feel like it, and it's also less structured.
I'd say using both is best. Even if you stop with the solo tripping, then you at least have the quarterly toga trip & complimentary orgy or something
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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rikuni

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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19040388 - 10/27/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spacerific said: Well for one thing group meetings are regular. You yourself only do it when you feel like it, and it's also less structured.
I'd say using both is best. Even if you stop with the solo tripping, then you at least have the quarterly toga trip & complimentary orgy or something 
wait a second, there are orgys also where that daime stuff goes down.? Where do i sign up...
I may just have changed my mind completely about that topic
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19040725 - 10/27/13 01:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well no there aren't, BUT your sincere reaction (and mine as well actually) makes it obvious that there should be 
For the record I believe that the optima way to live for humans is in tribe-like groups 50+ people, periodic collective shroom / aya / mescaline trips that at least some of the time would probably move quite naturally into orgies. Terence McKenna described it, some of the Aya trips also showed me how it could be done in modern or futuristic urban settings. Tribe doesn't have to mean bows and arrows and mud huts, it can be as futuristic as we can imagine. Level 56 of the skyscraper or section 34 of the space station etc. The skillset of any one tribe doesn't have to be fishing/hunting, it can be advanced propulsion design etc. Guild-style, studied from an early age, specialized focused expertise. Interconnect the know-how of several such communities, you end up with spaceships, cities, anything.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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rikuni

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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19041306 - 10/27/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah, ayahuasca and orgys in intergalactic crystal like spaceship citys Thats the shit I would like to see
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19041933 - 10/27/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Actually no. You put well trained professional people together with well organized psy experiences, patents come out.
I've also seen one of the scientists organizing the sessions in that study, in a documentary. Very worthwhile endeavor if you ask me.
Seeing what I've seen in the aya ceremonies and also shrooms and acid trips, I have no doubt these things can help tremendously with designing real functional products for a great future.
Yeah, I first read about that many years ago. But it ain't happening now - having "no doubt" is not the same as having a demonstrated working process in hand. Do you have any real life experience with all of this, or are you just quoting what you've found elsewhere? Just curious - see it doesn't really matter to me, as I already do what I do without any problems, have demonstrated the utility, and I know it works.
Don't just talk about it, get busy putting it to use! 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (10/27/13 06:22 PM)
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19041991 - 10/27/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Actually no. You put well trained professional people together with well organized psy experiences, patents come out.
I've also seen one of the scientists organizing the sessions in that study, in a documentary. Very worthwhile endeavor if you ask me.
Seeing what I've seen in the aya ceremonies and also shrooms and acid trips, I have no doubt these things can help tremendously with designing real functional products for a great future.
Having "no doubt" is not the same as having a demonstrated process. Do you have any real life experience with all of this, or are you just quoting what you've found elsewhere? It doesn't really matter to me, as I already do what I do without any problems and I know it works. Just curious... 
PS
Well that study is a demonstrated in itself, isn't it?
I didn't take 10 friends and fed them acid and told them to focus on a real problem, no. I have no acid to spare nor enough tripper friends to give it to, unfortunately 
The one thing I have is my own experience, as once I did go with a question to the aya church. In about 15-20 seconds tops (after I thought to ask the question, at about the peak of the trip) I got the answer to my painting question, and it was severely bleeding out into geometry, architecture, city design and long term emotional well-being for humans. As in, not only how to design a decent looking painting, but also how to design a nice wall and room to put it in, then the same principles actually make great buildings, and those buildings can make a fantastic looking city with incredible tourist and economic potential. A kind of science of aerodynamics, but for human emotions, not for gas molecules, if you will.
I'm sure they'll stumble across it again and end up using it in the future, or they'll feel equally shitty in grey boxy spaceships as we Westerners feel today in the boxy office skyscrapers. Architecture and space affect teh way you feel, and some things are seriously wrong / open to improvement about how we do things now. See Gaudi for more, or Damanhur. Or Hundertwasser. Only those are unique works, while the vision showed ways of standardizing and mass producing it for general consumption, as now we have the cheap computing power and technical means to get it done, unlike a few decades ago.
Now this kind of stuff is probably best discussed and/or tripped about with some sort of interdisciplinary team in a few of those different areas. Or designers of industrial products who could take and apply the same principles.
In any case I'd definitely recommend it for people with the technical problems, to literally walk up to that aya church, partake, then at the height of their experience bring it up. The specific question about industrial welding process, protein folding, decline of bee populations etc. May not work every single time but I'm pretty sure it's 100% worth the try.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19042064 - 10/27/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well that study is a demonstrated in itself, isn't it?
Not necessarily, though that's what it looks like - there are all kinds of confounding effects and opportunities for poor protocol in this kind of thing - much too much to go into. If you haven't done this yourself you're not going to appreciate the finer points of what it takes to actually do it.
But like I said, I've no doubt it works, because I've done it myself off and on for quite a few years with massive doses of mushrooms. That's just a practical study, not a scientific one, but it has produced plenty of results across various fields. Unfortunately some of that is too far advanced to be able to utilize yet, given current technology. 
Well OK, you got a specific answer from an Aya church. That's cool. Have you used it for anything since then?
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19042131 - 10/27/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well OK, you got a specific answer from an Aya church. That's cool. Have you used it for anything since then?
Changed the way I approach certain things in painting, kinds of spaces and lines I prefer in everything, any material object of any scale.
If I ever build or assist in designing a house or anything for that matter, I will use some or all of those principles. I've seen them used by architects and designers with great results, so I know they work. I'm repainting my studio walls, trying to understand those principles and get used to using them. A lifetime of being trained/educated in the completely opposite way, AND living, working studying in poorly designed spaces takes time to rewrite. By the way you've seen a lot of this stuff in psy art already, and also in the design of psychedelic festival stages, things of that nature. I've seen them mentioned by a great hypnotist, how fractals in nature affect our emotions positively.
Unfortunately my confidence and knowledge of the art market (basically my training as a painter, what I was talking about that we need from the human end, technical training) that's far from complete, so implementing has been slowed down tremendously. But again that's on me, I asked the question, was showed a functional working answer, and so far have failed to implement it solely for lack of discipline and so on, not because it was a bad answer. In more skilled hands it would definitely work better.
I could explain a bit more in a PM if need be, perhaps it touches some of your interests as well, or you might have some ideas how to apply it.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Fungi
Psycho4ctive


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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19042757 - 10/27/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I laugh at people who love psychedelics yet they ignore any messages they are being send. The problem for me is I find it harder and harder fitting into this society.
-------------------- Formerly known as Psycho4ctive To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic, Just Take a Pinch of Psychedelic
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Tombc1
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Fungi]
#19046137 - 10/28/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fungi said: I laugh at people who love psychedelics yet they ignore any messages they are being send. The problem for me is I find it harder and harder fitting into this society.
I agree. Finding it impossible to fit in; feel like a sword being jammed into a keyhole.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19046540 - 10/28/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I love jamming my sword in keyholes
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific] 1
#19047217 - 10/28/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Changed the way I approach certain things in painting, kinds of spaces and lines I prefer in everything, any material object of any scale.
That's excellent. I've had similar breakthroughs with writing and machine design - it just makes all so much easier in practice.
For instance, I used to write the hard way. It took about 7 years to finish my first novel! That's not commercially sustainable, not that it needed to be. But now I draft stories through dictation while shrooming, and it's a world of difference. I can (and have) done this 5 days a week for weeks on end, getting all the way through complete drafts of books in weeks rather than years. The continuity is awesome, and the rest of the job is a lot easier because it's mostly editing and polishing, and the stories are alive because they were told out loud in ancient human tradition. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Spacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19048057 - 10/28/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Changed the way I approach certain things in painting, kinds of spaces and lines I prefer in everything, any material object of any scale.
That's excellent. I've had similar breakthroughs with writing and machine design - it just makes all so much easier in practice.
For instance, I used to write the hard way. It took about 7 years to finish my first novel! That's not commercially sustainable, not that it needed to be. But now I draft stories through dictation while shrooming, and it's a world of difference. I can (and have) done this 5 days a week for weeks on end, getting all the way through complete drafts of books in weeks rather than years. The continuity is awesome, and the rest of the job is a lot easier because it's mostly editing and polishing, and the stories are alive because they were told out loud in ancient human tradition. 
PS
That right there is absolutely fucking awesome. Precisely what I noticed regarding the ancient traditions. There you are in some urban apartment and once the shroom gods awaken, wham! The ancient ways are alive as well. Bardic traditions, storytelling, teaching, grasping, and that most basic way of direct understanding and insight, as when the first caveman went "OOoogh! " when he figured out ingeniously that fire could be lit, that a burned stick could put a buffalo on cave walls and so on.
You might have seen The Mindscape of Alan Moore. In fact as a writer, no doubt you have. Leaving link for others who haven't. The man speaks of Solve and Coagula, the great processes in alchemy. We are (at a society level) far too top heavy on Solve, always dissecting and classifying things into smaller and smaller parts and details. Once the shrooms hit, they bring forth glorious balance and Coagula. How do spaceships fit together with our evolution as primates? How does sexuality? Art? Spoken word? Technology, old and new?
We are truly blessed to know of these things. These are amazing times.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Tombc1
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19048101 - 10/28/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: I love jamming my sword in keyholes
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hbwr
Human


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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19048382 - 10/28/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've felt like that since I was 13, and before I ever put any substances into my body. I've been reading philosophy and psychology since then (I'm in my 30s now), and that reading has opened my eyes to just how full of shit mainstream society is. But you still have to live in it, and in order to survive, you need to set those thoughts to your advantage, and tell yourself that you have some higher purpose.
While everybody else is following trends - whether those trends be following the latest fashions, being blinded by the ideas they see on television, or trying to keep up with the Joneses by getting a bigger and better car (nothing wrong with that, but if it's the only purpose you have, then it's not good).
If you read some Carl Jung, you'll see that people in modern society are lacking a higher purpose - Jung terms this the myth. We lack myths in our life, and by myth he means a purpose, a belief in some kind of binding force, or deity, that keeps us grounded to the universal subconscious. And so we try to find other myths - that's why celebrity culture is so prevalent - because people want to believe in some deity, and we deify celebrities, where we should be finding that deity within ourselves, or in nature, or in belief in a greater whole. Human beings in the modern world are very isolated, and I think many people are lost without a sense of true purpose.
That's why there is such a prevalence of depression, bipolar, and anxiety in the modern world. It's because people have nothing to hold on to but consumer goods, and 'getting ahead'. Even religion has become commodified.
So feeling alienated from society isn't anything strange. I think many people feel alienated. You just feel alienated for different reasons - good reasons - because you understand that there's more to life than just being cool and finding a purpose in buying stuff that you really don't need. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that stuff - I enjoy getting the latest tablet or car just like anybody else. It's just good to be mindful that these things aren't going to make you happy, and that you can get by just fine without thosre things. You own them, they don't own you.
You have to be a part of society to get by, you need to make money and everything to survive, but you don't need to buy into the whole superficial advertising culture. I think it's okay to feel alienated from all that clutter, because that means you are thinking for yourself.
Do you watch television much? I suggest staying away from television, especially advertising. It's designed to make you feel bad, unless you buy this or that product. Take that away and you have one less oppressive conduit to worry about.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: hbwr]
#19048576 - 10/28/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mmm, good post. And I was at BestBuy today looking at the latest model of an extremely cool laptop/tablet which I am determined to get - but it's something I actually will use mostly for writing. See, though, I was looking at it in a very grounded way at the time. Not just like - "whoa, cool" (which it is) but "how damn useful!" and as a piece of modern technology it is that.
I don't think technology has any inherent drawbacks, other than making stuff so it recycles better. Hell, that's the problem with a lot of people as well - how do you reuse/reduce/recycle them? Both when they die and for all the stuff they accumulate that, once dead, they don't need anymore and nobody else wants? But how to talk people down from being mass consumers until they see that they don't really need their brand-new Caddy SUV or whatever other piece of consumer dreck they're being offered...? I mean, how to talk them down from that by making USE of mass media? That's a tough call.
That's what I like about mushrooms, they really allow you to see through all the crap. I used to notice cars, and be able to identify them, shit like that - but I finally got to where I don't even see them as "cars" anymore, just moving pieces of matter with certain characteristics. Ditto for a lot of other stuff, and now often enough ditto for people as well. I don't accept the "meaning" of the collections of matter, when they have no particular purpose other than to just exist. It can make things interesting, being able to be completely alienated from society like that, and still playing a role in it, superficial at times, but always authentic to my own insight. Which itself sees me as nothing more than another of those collections of matter, and helps me get rid of shit that I don't need, before I die and get recycled. 
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: hbwr]
#19049239 - 10/28/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hbwr said: I've felt like that since I was 13, and before I ever put any substances into my body. I've been reading philosophy and psychology since then (I'm in my 30s now), and that reading has opened my eyes to just how full of shit mainstream society is. But you still have to live in it, and in order to survive, you need to set those thoughts to your advantage, and tell yourself that you have some higher purpose.
While everybody else is following trends - whether those trends be following the latest fashions, being blinded by the ideas they see on television, or trying to keep up with the Joneses by getting a bigger and better car (nothing wrong with that, but if it's the only purpose you have, then it's not good).
If you read some Carl Jung, you'll see that people in modern society are lacking a higher purpose - Jung terms this the myth. We lack myths in our life, and by myth he means a purpose, a belief in some kind of binding force, or deity, that keeps us grounded to the universal subconscious. And so we try to find other myths - that's why celebrity culture is so prevalent - because people want to believe in some deity, and we deify celebrities, where we should be finding that deity within ourselves, or in nature, or in belief in a greater whole. Human beings in the modern world are very isolated, and I think many people are lost without a sense of true purpose.
That's why there is such a prevalence of depression, bipolar, and anxiety in the modern world. It's because people have nothing to hold on to but consumer goods, and 'getting ahead'. Even religion has become commodified.
So feeling alienated from society isn't anything strange. I think many people feel alienated. You just feel alienated for different reasons - good reasons - because you understand that there's more to life than just being cool and finding a purpose in buying stuff that you really don't need. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that stuff - I enjoy getting the latest tablet or car just like anybody else. It's just good to be mindful that these things aren't going to make you happy, and that you can get by just fine without thosre things. You own them, they don't own you.
You have to be a part of society to get by, you need to make money and everything to survive, but you don't need to buy into the whole superficial advertising culture. I think it's okay to feel alienated from all that clutter, because that means you are thinking for yourself.
Do you watch television much? I suggest staying away from television, especially advertising. It's designed to make you feel bad, unless you buy this or that product. Take that away and you have one less oppressive conduit to worry about.
Interesting reply. I made it a point several months ago to avoid TV as best I can. Its rather interesting after you sever yourself from the aforementioned conduit and notice how attached everybody seems to be to the television screen. People feel uncomfortable sitting in a room without the television on sometimes. That is disgusting. :P Sorry for the rather shallow reply, it's very late - i shall contribute more tomorrow! This thread is epic.
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hbwr
Human


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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19049565 - 10/28/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You know I just re-read my post and realized that I came across as being a little bit harsh against people, especially the part about mainstream society being full of shit. I don't mean to say that most people are full of shit (although many people can be). I just mean that the structure of modern western society is so consumer-based and control-based that I think the structure itself is full of shit, and that translates to making a fulfilling life quite difficult for people. I mean, everybody is just really trying to get by in life the best way they can, but not everybody is at a point in their life that they can see beyond what they are told to think.
Well done for minimizing your television watching! I think it's kind of sad how in most modern living rooms that the TV is the focal point, and all chairs and sofas point towards it. Chairs should point towards each other so people can engage each other, shouldn't they? Even in my house, my partner loves television, so I have no choice really lol. If I were living alone, there would be no television in my home. But having said that I still like to watch some programmes, but perhaps only about an hour every couple of days.
I remember when I was young dad and I would lie down and watch TV in the living room, but we'd never talk. I guess that's one reason I don't watch much TV - whenever I watch it I just picture dad sitting there and not saying a word, and him hushing me when I'd want to talk. I watched so much TV up until the age of 16 that it was almost like my friend! But then I went away to study, and stopped, and I realized that I didn't need it at all. I think it's one of the worst drugs the modern age, with my list of worst drugs being: tobacco (I've smoked for years), alcohol, sugar, TV, crack, and heroin, oh and krocodil! But I guess some people would disagree with that list.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: hbwr]
#19049580 - 10/28/13 11:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nah dude Kroc is the bomb diggety.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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hbwr
Human


Registered: 10/28/13
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19049617 - 10/28/13 11:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: Nah dude Kroc is the bomb diggety.
lol I hope you don't mean that, losing a leg to a pus-filled abscess is totally my idea of great fun!
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: hbwr]
#19049629 - 10/28/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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All the hype over that shit cracks me up. Yeah it's a big thing in Russia because you can get codeine with no prescription and then people use shitty ass ingredients to convert it into an injectable form. There's no reason for the scare about it in the US because codeine is not readily available to the masses here.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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Brain Melter



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 48
Loc: planet earth
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19049814 - 10/29/13 12:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Love everybody for what they are, there is no right way to be in life.
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Brain Melter]
#19049886 - 10/29/13 12:27 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
But how to talk people down from being mass consumers until they see that they don't really need their brand-new Caddy SUV or whatever other piece of consumer dreck they're being offered...? I mean, how to talk them down from that by making USE of mass media? That's a tough call.
No it's not. You walk up to any advertising agency and they'll make the right ads for you.
Alain de Botton and before that Epicurus in his day, have done exactly, precisely that. Truth in advertising 
I will say that IMO we Westerners have several fucked up traditions that are absolutely appalling, that are there at least in part because we don't allow psychs around, and other state changers. Coca leaf, what have you. Not having the good stuff, people reach for other state changers usually much worse. One example is processed sugar, and things that come from it. Ask any doc, they will tell you that foods with high glycemic index are bad for you, they're hard on your whole system, they cause unnecessary insulin spikes and then sugar crashes, it's one big clusterfuck. Yet we consider it perfectly acceptable for any corporation to advertise the shit out of their shitty sugar products, chocolates and cookies and coke and mountain dew crap like there's no tomorrow. Quote:
Brain Melter said: Love everybody for what they are, there is no right way to be in life. 
Well there are products we know for a fact to be very unhealthy. Tobacco, excessive sugar, alcohol, grilled fatty foods, red meat made from grain-fed beef and so on. In a healthy society these things would read bewildering and exotic to you, something you haven't heard of this month, not something that you have to actively avoid everywhere all the time. But they're common, and we're slowly but surely reaping it all. Obesity, autism, heart disease, ADHD, depression, so on and so forth. I'd say there is a right way to be in life, and if one is obese and depressed they're probably doing it a bit wrong.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
Edited by Spacerific (10/29/13 12:29 AM)
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Brain Melter



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 48
Loc: planet earth
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19049917 - 10/29/13 12:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brain Melter said: Love everybody for what they are, there is no right way to be in life. 
Well there are products we know for a fact to be very unhealthy. Tobacco, excessive sugar, alcohol, grilled fatty foods, red meat made from grain-fed beef and so on. In a healthy society these things would read bewildering and exotic to you, something you haven't heard of this month, not something that you have to actively avoid everywhere all the time. But they're common, and we're slowly but surely reaping it all. Obesity, autism, heart disease, ADHD, depression, so on and so forth. I'd say there is a right way to be in life, and if one is obese and depressed they're probably doing it a bit wrong.
Yeah but some people are happy doing unhealthy things haha. The way I see it man, if youre doing whatever makes you happy and that whatever doesnt hurt anybody, youre living the right way. Like those fat women who eat incredible amounts to be very fat on purpose are happy with themselves despite the health risk (I still dont understand that one haha) I like my cigarettes and I know theyre going to kill me eventually but shit, nothing beats a cigarette after a meal or with my coffee. I don't plan on living to 100 either hahaha. to each his own man thats all I gotta say
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Brain Melter]
#19049963 - 10/29/13 12:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah but some people are happy doing unhealthy things haha. The way I see it man, if youre doing whatever makes you happy and that whatever doesnt hurt anybody, youre living the right way. Like those fat women who eat incredible amounts to be very fat on purpose are happy with themselves despite the health risk (I still dont understand that one haha) I like my cigarettes and I know theyre going to kill me eventually but shit, nothing beats a cigarette after a meal or with my coffee. I don't plan on living to 100 either hahaha. to each his own man thats all I gotta say
Well, you have to consider the fact that smoking, drinking and obesity are actually things you spread into your peer group. There's statistical data to show that to be the case.
You smoke after meals. Awesome. Do you have kids, or do you plan to have kids at some point? Are you ok with the fact that they're likely to be smokers as well?
It's not quite so black and white once you're starting to influence kids into drinking and smoking, or eating disgusting fat shit that will turn them obese, because aww in our family we like to eat well. I like chubby girls, I do, even more than most. I find round shapes on a girl fine and tasty. That being said I am thoroughly disgusted with the whales.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Brain Melter



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 48
Loc: planet earth
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19050018 - 10/29/13 01:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spacerific said:
Quote:
Yeah but some people are happy doing unhealthy things haha. The way I see it man, if youre doing whatever makes you happy and that whatever doesnt hurt anybody, youre living the right way. Like those fat women who eat incredible amounts to be very fat on purpose are happy with themselves despite the health risk (I still dont understand that one haha) I like my cigarettes and I know theyre going to kill me eventually but shit, nothing beats a cigarette after a meal or with my coffee. I don't plan on living to 100 either hahaha. to each his own man thats all I gotta say
Well, you have to consider the fact that smoking, drinking and obesity are actually things you spread into your peer group. There's statistical data to show that to be the case.
You smoke after meals. Awesome. Do you have kids, or do you plan to have kids at some point? Are you ok with the fact that they're likely to be smokers as well?
It's not quite so black and white once you're starting to influence kids into drinking and smoking, or eating disgusting fat shit that will turn them obese, because aww in our family we like to eat well. I like chubby girls, I do, even more than most. I find round shapes on a girl fine and tasty. That being said I am thoroughly disgusted with the whales.

Lololololol that picture. I think youre over analyzing my pretty general statement haha I respect it though
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Brain Melter]
#19050178 - 10/29/13 02:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just found the documentary about the experiment with LSD and creativity, with scientific / engineering problems. Inside LSD.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: hbwr]
#19050250 - 10/29/13 03:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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hbwr said:
Quote:
nicechrisman said: Nah dude Kroc is the bomb diggety.
lol I hope you don't mean that, losing a leg to a pus-filled abscess is totally my idea of great fun!
dont judge cause I think you didnt try it. GO smoke some and then tell us again
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19050273 - 10/29/13 03:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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creativity, with scientific / engineering problems. Inside LSD.
my study reveals that my level of creativity were up 10000000000000000000000000000000000% and i fucking mean it. 
I just take a break because i was flooded and that shit was too much to handle
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19050298 - 10/29/13 03:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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For sure, everything in moderation.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19050324 - 10/29/13 04:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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are there any ceremonies in winter at that daime thing ?
Maybe i check that out sometime
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19050463 - 10/29/13 05:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well are you in the Netherlands or going there soon? I do believe they have 1-2 ceremonies every month, consistently, and there's 2 different churches each with their own schedule. Awesome times at both of them but I prefer the one in The Hague as the group is smaller and they have awesome vaporizer bongs on the church altar, as opposed to joints which I can't smoke at all.
Santodaime.nl for the website and schedules. Press Translate for English version. Oh and yes, you WILL get to smoke weed in the church
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19051770 - 10/29/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I can go there anytime but it takes some planning. I have to look if that works out this year. Smoking weed in church sounds like the real deal
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19051865 - 10/29/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Go man, go go go 
Only took one time for me to get me motivated to go again and again. You'll feel the good effects for months, you'll feel them in subsequent trips on other substances, it can't be overstated how awesome this is if you can go.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 299
Last seen: 11 months, 16 hours
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19051939 - 10/29/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spacerific said: Go man, go go go 
Only took one time for me to get me motivated to go again and again. You'll feel the good effects for months, you'll feel them in subsequent trips on other substances, it can't be overstated how awesome this is if you can go. 
Would give a lot to be able to attend a Santo Daime ceremony
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19052485 - 10/29/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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No it's not. You walk up to any advertising agency and they'll make the right ads for you.
Ah come on. An ad that will make people stop watching ads forever, and stop buying shit nobody needs forever? Dream on!
OTOH psychedelics will do exactly that - only they are illegal and can't be advertised. But wait - what would be the point? 
possible side effects may include seeing through corporate greed, refusing to sell your life short working for somebody else, a general irreverence for all establishment religions, feelings of awe in nature of no commercial value, working harder to make the world a friendlier place to all its inhabitants, rejection of societal norms, living closer to the land, rejecting unwholesome food, abandoning addictive substances, and just generally being a total tree-hugging pain in the ass of the masses.
Quote:
Yet we consider it perfectly acceptable for any corporation to advertise the shit out of their shitty sugar products,
This "we" is not me, but the point is already made so I'm leaving it here.
PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (10/29/13 03:41 PM)
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19053401 - 10/29/13 06:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Have you watched the Epicurus video?
This is exactly what they did back in those communes. They raised huge permanent ads in the middle of the markets, reminding people AS THEY BUY that happiness doesn't come from material goods, it comes from friends freedom and an analyzed life. All of which are not found by buying more than one needs. So it can be done. The system was stable and worked until they were violently wiped out for religious reasons, as they were a pain in the ass for surrounding cults that had gods to promote.
Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Yet we consider it perfectly acceptable for any corporation to advertise the shit out of their shitty sugar products,
This "we" is not me, but the point is already made so I'm leaving it here.
PS
You're right, I should have said we're allowing it to happen, even though we don't consider it acceptable. We're still not putting an end to it, and it's all slowly creeping further and further inside our food chain. See Monsanto and GM seeds and all that. Any responsible tree hugging that hopes to last should at some point include limiting the poisoning of trees. What a bunch of irresponsible people can and cannot do. Not to themselves, but to everything out here, trees water etc.
So far Monsanto has free reign all over the planet, advertising agencies are free to amplify the message of anyone, for things like aspartame-containing drinks, military recruitment, SSRI's and so on. Our lines in the sand are drawn at specific kinds of organized crime, so pretty low standards.
Communities like Damanhur for instance, they've said NO to big rectangular coke ads in the middle of their community, as they figured out people thrive better in artful settings, not the visual equivalent of spam.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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sof4r0ckeRs1984



Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,886
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19058341 - 10/30/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So there has to be someone who would be doing it like Frank Zappa and further their ideas by buying newspaper pages.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Yeah, except (strangely enough) Zappa never did drugs. Said he tried cocaine once and couldn't stand weed. That was about it...
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Jesus Cristo
High on Drugs



Registered: 07/25/11
Posts: 739
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19058801 - 10/30/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
No it's not. You walk up to any advertising agency and they'll make the right ads for you.
Ah come on. An ad that will make people stop watching ads forever, and stop buying shit nobody needs forever? Dream on!
OTOH psychedelics will do exactly that - only they are illegal and can't be advertised. But wait - what would be the point? 
possible side effects may include seeing through corporate greed, refusing to sell your life short working for somebody else, a general irreverence for all establishment religions, feelings of awe in nature of no commercial value, working harder to make the world a friendlier place to all its inhabitants, rejection of societal norms, living closer to the land, rejecting unwholesome food, abandoning addictive substances, and just generally being a total tree-hugging pain in the ass of the masses.
Quote:
Yet we consider it perfectly acceptable for any corporation to advertise the shit out of their shitty sugar products,
This "we" is not me, but the point is already made so I'm leaving it here.
PS
im guessing the best ads have probably been made by psychedelic users which would be ironic but it seems very likely from my experiences.
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OmniDimensional
The Mother Plant


Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 193
Loc: Earth?
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19059645 - 10/30/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Tombc1 said: Hey. Over the past couple of years I have been reborn due to psychedelics - I am a completely different person now and my mind works in a drastically different way to how it used to and how everyone else's around me does. I go to a college which connects to a high school which means masses of brainwashed trend-following idiots - even the teachers are only slightly better. I have begun to feel very alienated from almost everyone except my very close friends, just due to how different we are. Everybody succumbs to petty argument, bullies one another, focuses on physical appearance... everyone around me just seems to be living according to that capitalist programming. I am not sure if it is mushrooms making me realize i'm the only sane one, or mushrooms making me insane without me realizing... please help - has anyone else had this feeling before? 
You are not insane. You are normal. Everyone else is insane. It sucks but the only thing you can do is connect with like minded individuals. And, sometimes it is better to be alone then surrounded by mindless zombies.
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19059699 - 10/30/13 08:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
possible side effects may include seeing through corporate greed, refusing to sell your life short working for somebody else, a general irreverence for all establishment religions, feelings of awe in nature of no commercial value, working harder to make the world a friendlier place to all its inhabitants, rejection of societal norms, living closer to the land, rejecting unwholesome food, abandoning addictive substances, and just generally being a total tree-hugging pain in the ass of the masses.
Thanks for that
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