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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Fungi]
#19046137 - 10/28/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fungi said: I laugh at people who love psychedelics yet they ignore any messages they are being send. The problem for me is I find it harder and harder fitting into this society.
I agree. Finding it impossible to fit in; feel like a sword being jammed into a keyhole.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19046540 - 10/28/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I love jamming my sword in keyholes
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific] 1
#19047217 - 10/28/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Changed the way I approach certain things in painting, kinds of spaces and lines I prefer in everything, any material object of any scale.
That's excellent. I've had similar breakthroughs with writing and machine design - it just makes all so much easier in practice.
For instance, I used to write the hard way. It took about 7 years to finish my first novel! That's not commercially sustainable, not that it needed to be. But now I draft stories through dictation while shrooming, and it's a world of difference. I can (and have) done this 5 days a week for weeks on end, getting all the way through complete drafts of books in weeks rather than years. The continuity is awesome, and the rest of the job is a lot easier because it's mostly editing and polishing, and the stories are alive because they were told out loud in ancient human tradition. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19048057 - 10/28/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Changed the way I approach certain things in painting, kinds of spaces and lines I prefer in everything, any material object of any scale.
That's excellent. I've had similar breakthroughs with writing and machine design - it just makes all so much easier in practice.
For instance, I used to write the hard way. It took about 7 years to finish my first novel! That's not commercially sustainable, not that it needed to be. But now I draft stories through dictation while shrooming, and it's a world of difference. I can (and have) done this 5 days a week for weeks on end, getting all the way through complete drafts of books in weeks rather than years. The continuity is awesome, and the rest of the job is a lot easier because it's mostly editing and polishing, and the stories are alive because they were told out loud in ancient human tradition. 
PS
That right there is absolutely fucking awesome. Precisely what I noticed regarding the ancient traditions. There you are in some urban apartment and once the shroom gods awaken, wham! The ancient ways are alive as well. Bardic traditions, storytelling, teaching, grasping, and that most basic way of direct understanding and insight, as when the first caveman went "OOoogh! " when he figured out ingeniously that fire could be lit, that a burned stick could put a buffalo on cave walls and so on.
You might have seen The Mindscape of Alan Moore. In fact as a writer, no doubt you have. Leaving link for others who haven't. The man speaks of Solve and Coagula, the great processes in alchemy. We are (at a society level) far too top heavy on Solve, always dissecting and classifying things into smaller and smaller parts and details. Once the shrooms hit, they bring forth glorious balance and Coagula. How do spaceships fit together with our evolution as primates? How does sexuality? Art? Spoken word? Technology, old and new?
We are truly blessed to know of these things. These are amazing times.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 299
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19048101 - 10/28/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: I love jamming my sword in keyholes
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hbwr
Human


Registered: 10/28/13
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19048382 - 10/28/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've felt like that since I was 13, and before I ever put any substances into my body. I've been reading philosophy and psychology since then (I'm in my 30s now), and that reading has opened my eyes to just how full of shit mainstream society is. But you still have to live in it, and in order to survive, you need to set those thoughts to your advantage, and tell yourself that you have some higher purpose.
While everybody else is following trends - whether those trends be following the latest fashions, being blinded by the ideas they see on television, or trying to keep up with the Joneses by getting a bigger and better car (nothing wrong with that, but if it's the only purpose you have, then it's not good).
If you read some Carl Jung, you'll see that people in modern society are lacking a higher purpose - Jung terms this the myth. We lack myths in our life, and by myth he means a purpose, a belief in some kind of binding force, or deity, that keeps us grounded to the universal subconscious. And so we try to find other myths - that's why celebrity culture is so prevalent - because people want to believe in some deity, and we deify celebrities, where we should be finding that deity within ourselves, or in nature, or in belief in a greater whole. Human beings in the modern world are very isolated, and I think many people are lost without a sense of true purpose.
That's why there is such a prevalence of depression, bipolar, and anxiety in the modern world. It's because people have nothing to hold on to but consumer goods, and 'getting ahead'. Even religion has become commodified.
So feeling alienated from society isn't anything strange. I think many people feel alienated. You just feel alienated for different reasons - good reasons - because you understand that there's more to life than just being cool and finding a purpose in buying stuff that you really don't need. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that stuff - I enjoy getting the latest tablet or car just like anybody else. It's just good to be mindful that these things aren't going to make you happy, and that you can get by just fine without thosre things. You own them, they don't own you.
You have to be a part of society to get by, you need to make money and everything to survive, but you don't need to buy into the whole superficial advertising culture. I think it's okay to feel alienated from all that clutter, because that means you are thinking for yourself.
Do you watch television much? I suggest staying away from television, especially advertising. It's designed to make you feel bad, unless you buy this or that product. Take that away and you have one less oppressive conduit to worry about.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: hbwr]
#19048576 - 10/28/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mmm, good post. And I was at BestBuy today looking at the latest model of an extremely cool laptop/tablet which I am determined to get - but it's something I actually will use mostly for writing. See, though, I was looking at it in a very grounded way at the time. Not just like - "whoa, cool" (which it is) but "how damn useful!" and as a piece of modern technology it is that.
I don't think technology has any inherent drawbacks, other than making stuff so it recycles better. Hell, that's the problem with a lot of people as well - how do you reuse/reduce/recycle them? Both when they die and for all the stuff they accumulate that, once dead, they don't need anymore and nobody else wants? But how to talk people down from being mass consumers until they see that they don't really need their brand-new Caddy SUV or whatever other piece of consumer dreck they're being offered...? I mean, how to talk them down from that by making USE of mass media? That's a tough call.
That's what I like about mushrooms, they really allow you to see through all the crap. I used to notice cars, and be able to identify them, shit like that - but I finally got to where I don't even see them as "cars" anymore, just moving pieces of matter with certain characteristics. Ditto for a lot of other stuff, and now often enough ditto for people as well. I don't accept the "meaning" of the collections of matter, when they have no particular purpose other than to just exist. It can make things interesting, being able to be completely alienated from society like that, and still playing a role in it, superficial at times, but always authentic to my own insight. Which itself sees me as nothing more than another of those collections of matter, and helps me get rid of shit that I don't need, before I die and get recycled. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Tombc1
Shroomerite



Registered: 09/06/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: hbwr]
#19049239 - 10/28/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hbwr said: I've felt like that since I was 13, and before I ever put any substances into my body. I've been reading philosophy and psychology since then (I'm in my 30s now), and that reading has opened my eyes to just how full of shit mainstream society is. But you still have to live in it, and in order to survive, you need to set those thoughts to your advantage, and tell yourself that you have some higher purpose.
While everybody else is following trends - whether those trends be following the latest fashions, being blinded by the ideas they see on television, or trying to keep up with the Joneses by getting a bigger and better car (nothing wrong with that, but if it's the only purpose you have, then it's not good).
If you read some Carl Jung, you'll see that people in modern society are lacking a higher purpose - Jung terms this the myth. We lack myths in our life, and by myth he means a purpose, a belief in some kind of binding force, or deity, that keeps us grounded to the universal subconscious. And so we try to find other myths - that's why celebrity culture is so prevalent - because people want to believe in some deity, and we deify celebrities, where we should be finding that deity within ourselves, or in nature, or in belief in a greater whole. Human beings in the modern world are very isolated, and I think many people are lost without a sense of true purpose.
That's why there is such a prevalence of depression, bipolar, and anxiety in the modern world. It's because people have nothing to hold on to but consumer goods, and 'getting ahead'. Even religion has become commodified.
So feeling alienated from society isn't anything strange. I think many people feel alienated. You just feel alienated for different reasons - good reasons - because you understand that there's more to life than just being cool and finding a purpose in buying stuff that you really don't need. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that stuff - I enjoy getting the latest tablet or car just like anybody else. It's just good to be mindful that these things aren't going to make you happy, and that you can get by just fine without thosre things. You own them, they don't own you.
You have to be a part of society to get by, you need to make money and everything to survive, but you don't need to buy into the whole superficial advertising culture. I think it's okay to feel alienated from all that clutter, because that means you are thinking for yourself.
Do you watch television much? I suggest staying away from television, especially advertising. It's designed to make you feel bad, unless you buy this or that product. Take that away and you have one less oppressive conduit to worry about.
Interesting reply. I made it a point several months ago to avoid TV as best I can. Its rather interesting after you sever yourself from the aforementioned conduit and notice how attached everybody seems to be to the television screen. People feel uncomfortable sitting in a room without the television on sometimes. That is disgusting. :P Sorry for the rather shallow reply, it's very late - i shall contribute more tomorrow! This thread is epic.
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hbwr
Human


Registered: 10/28/13
Posts: 46
Last seen: 10 years, 7 days
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19049565 - 10/28/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You know I just re-read my post and realized that I came across as being a little bit harsh against people, especially the part about mainstream society being full of shit. I don't mean to say that most people are full of shit (although many people can be). I just mean that the structure of modern western society is so consumer-based and control-based that I think the structure itself is full of shit, and that translates to making a fulfilling life quite difficult for people. I mean, everybody is just really trying to get by in life the best way they can, but not everybody is at a point in their life that they can see beyond what they are told to think.
Well done for minimizing your television watching! I think it's kind of sad how in most modern living rooms that the TV is the focal point, and all chairs and sofas point towards it. Chairs should point towards each other so people can engage each other, shouldn't they? Even in my house, my partner loves television, so I have no choice really lol. If I were living alone, there would be no television in my home. But having said that I still like to watch some programmes, but perhaps only about an hour every couple of days.
I remember when I was young dad and I would lie down and watch TV in the living room, but we'd never talk. I guess that's one reason I don't watch much TV - whenever I watch it I just picture dad sitting there and not saying a word, and him hushing me when I'd want to talk. I watched so much TV up until the age of 16 that it was almost like my friend! But then I went away to study, and stopped, and I realized that I didn't need it at all. I think it's one of the worst drugs the modern age, with my list of worst drugs being: tobacco (I've smoked for years), alcohol, sugar, TV, crack, and heroin, oh and krocodil! But I guess some people would disagree with that list.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: hbwr]
#19049580 - 10/28/13 11:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nah dude Kroc is the bomb diggety.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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hbwr
Human


Registered: 10/28/13
Posts: 46
Last seen: 10 years, 7 days
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19049617 - 10/28/13 11:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: Nah dude Kroc is the bomb diggety.
lol I hope you don't mean that, losing a leg to a pus-filled abscess is totally my idea of great fun!
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: hbwr]
#19049629 - 10/28/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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All the hype over that shit cracks me up. Yeah it's a big thing in Russia because you can get codeine with no prescription and then people use shitty ass ingredients to convert it into an injectable form. There's no reason for the scare about it in the US because codeine is not readily available to the masses here.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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Brain Melter



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 48
Loc: planet earth
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
#19049814 - 10/29/13 12:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Love everybody for what they are, there is no right way to be in life.
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Brain Melter]
#19049886 - 10/29/13 12:27 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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But how to talk people down from being mass consumers until they see that they don't really need their brand-new Caddy SUV or whatever other piece of consumer dreck they're being offered...? I mean, how to talk them down from that by making USE of mass media? That's a tough call.
No it's not. You walk up to any advertising agency and they'll make the right ads for you.
Alain de Botton and before that Epicurus in his day, have done exactly, precisely that. Truth in advertising 
I will say that IMO we Westerners have several fucked up traditions that are absolutely appalling, that are there at least in part because we don't allow psychs around, and other state changers. Coca leaf, what have you. Not having the good stuff, people reach for other state changers usually much worse. One example is processed sugar, and things that come from it. Ask any doc, they will tell you that foods with high glycemic index are bad for you, they're hard on your whole system, they cause unnecessary insulin spikes and then sugar crashes, it's one big clusterfuck. Yet we consider it perfectly acceptable for any corporation to advertise the shit out of their shitty sugar products, chocolates and cookies and coke and mountain dew crap like there's no tomorrow. Quote:
Brain Melter said: Love everybody for what they are, there is no right way to be in life. 
Well there are products we know for a fact to be very unhealthy. Tobacco, excessive sugar, alcohol, grilled fatty foods, red meat made from grain-fed beef and so on. In a healthy society these things would read bewildering and exotic to you, something you haven't heard of this month, not something that you have to actively avoid everywhere all the time. But they're common, and we're slowly but surely reaping it all. Obesity, autism, heart disease, ADHD, depression, so on and so forth. I'd say there is a right way to be in life, and if one is obese and depressed they're probably doing it a bit wrong.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
Edited by Spacerific (10/29/13 12:29 AM)
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Brain Melter



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 48
Loc: planet earth
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19049917 - 10/29/13 12:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brain Melter said: Love everybody for what they are, there is no right way to be in life. 
Well there are products we know for a fact to be very unhealthy. Tobacco, excessive sugar, alcohol, grilled fatty foods, red meat made from grain-fed beef and so on. In a healthy society these things would read bewildering and exotic to you, something you haven't heard of this month, not something that you have to actively avoid everywhere all the time. But they're common, and we're slowly but surely reaping it all. Obesity, autism, heart disease, ADHD, depression, so on and so forth. I'd say there is a right way to be in life, and if one is obese and depressed they're probably doing it a bit wrong.
Yeah but some people are happy doing unhealthy things haha. The way I see it man, if youre doing whatever makes you happy and that whatever doesnt hurt anybody, youre living the right way. Like those fat women who eat incredible amounts to be very fat on purpose are happy with themselves despite the health risk (I still dont understand that one haha) I like my cigarettes and I know theyre going to kill me eventually but shit, nothing beats a cigarette after a meal or with my coffee. I don't plan on living to 100 either hahaha. to each his own man thats all I gotta say
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Brain Melter]
#19049963 - 10/29/13 12:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah but some people are happy doing unhealthy things haha. The way I see it man, if youre doing whatever makes you happy and that whatever doesnt hurt anybody, youre living the right way. Like those fat women who eat incredible amounts to be very fat on purpose are happy with themselves despite the health risk (I still dont understand that one haha) I like my cigarettes and I know theyre going to kill me eventually but shit, nothing beats a cigarette after a meal or with my coffee. I don't plan on living to 100 either hahaha. to each his own man thats all I gotta say
Well, you have to consider the fact that smoking, drinking and obesity are actually things you spread into your peer group. There's statistical data to show that to be the case.
You smoke after meals. Awesome. Do you have kids, or do you plan to have kids at some point? Are you ok with the fact that they're likely to be smokers as well?
It's not quite so black and white once you're starting to influence kids into drinking and smoking, or eating disgusting fat shit that will turn them obese, because aww in our family we like to eat well. I like chubby girls, I do, even more than most. I find round shapes on a girl fine and tasty. That being said I am thoroughly disgusted with the whales.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Brain Melter



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 48
Loc: planet earth
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19050018 - 10/29/13 01:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spacerific said:
Quote:
Yeah but some people are happy doing unhealthy things haha. The way I see it man, if youre doing whatever makes you happy and that whatever doesnt hurt anybody, youre living the right way. Like those fat women who eat incredible amounts to be very fat on purpose are happy with themselves despite the health risk (I still dont understand that one haha) I like my cigarettes and I know theyre going to kill me eventually but shit, nothing beats a cigarette after a meal or with my coffee. I don't plan on living to 100 either hahaha. to each his own man thats all I gotta say
Well, you have to consider the fact that smoking, drinking and obesity are actually things you spread into your peer group. There's statistical data to show that to be the case.
You smoke after meals. Awesome. Do you have kids, or do you plan to have kids at some point? Are you ok with the fact that they're likely to be smokers as well?
It's not quite so black and white once you're starting to influence kids into drinking and smoking, or eating disgusting fat shit that will turn them obese, because aww in our family we like to eat well. I like chubby girls, I do, even more than most. I find round shapes on a girl fine and tasty. That being said I am thoroughly disgusted with the whales.

Lololololol that picture. I think youre over analyzing my pretty general statement haha I respect it though
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Brain Melter]
#19050178 - 10/29/13 02:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just found the documentary about the experiment with LSD and creativity, with scientific / engineering problems. Inside LSD.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: hbwr]
#19050250 - 10/29/13 03:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hbwr said:
Quote:
nicechrisman said: Nah dude Kroc is the bomb diggety.
lol I hope you don't mean that, losing a leg to a pus-filled abscess is totally my idea of great fun!
dont judge cause I think you didnt try it. GO smoke some and then tell us again
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19050273 - 10/29/13 03:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
creativity, with scientific / engineering problems. Inside LSD.
my study reveals that my level of creativity were up 10000000000000000000000000000000000% and i fucking mean it. 
I just take a break because i was flooded and that shit was too much to handle
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