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adastra80
Boss

Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 50
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
#19037222 - 10/26/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You have a point. Many people won't see like you do. Many people may not actually be enlightened. Just be careful. Sometimes it's a long fall off a high horse...
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sof4r0ckeRs1984



Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,886
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: adastra80]
#19037406 - 10/26/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Worse then falling is staying down.
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Hygrocybe
Walkin Wonderland



Registered: 06/06/09
Posts: 1,227
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Post deleted by HygrocybeReason for deletion: poop
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Hygrocybe
Walkin Wonderland



Registered: 06/06/09
Posts: 1,227
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
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Re: Feel alienated from society *DELETED* [Re: Hygrocybe]
#19037453 - 10/26/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by HygrocybeReason for deletion: pooppoop
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Hygrocybe]
#19037517 - 10/26/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hygro, breathe mate, everything is OK.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19037797 - 10/26/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spacerific said:Well I only have my own experience to go by here, but here's my thinking: many designers / artists / engineers / whatever, are actually VERY involved in their profession. They DO put in massive amounts of time in reading, practicing, learning, training, so they DO have sincere desire. If the next step reads "ask the plant about it" I am sure many people would put in the time to ask it properly. If sent to a shaman, or even presented with the plant alone, I think many would get highly interesting answers. Shamans may say - go eat this specific diet for a week. Many people would do it. In the exact same way they learn to wear gloves and masks to avoid contaminations, they would learn to do this and do it right. If the requirements and benefits were more accurately known, many people would actually go the distance.
Yeah, OK. I know I put the time into my couple of professions, and I know I want to see that time pay off somehow. As a writer, I'm AMAZED by the power of the mushrooms for opening the doors I need opened. Hands down, the single most useful tool I've ever used. And though it took me a while to figure out how to harness it, eventually I did. 
As a designer/builder/inventor of complex machinery and high-end (unspecified) products, well, not so unqualified an aid. I get most of what I get through endless amounts of concentration and occasional moments of inspiration. I have had multiple breakthrough insights into the design of (physical) devices that could be extremely useful in the world, if and when it becomes possible to build them. Not just your "billions of dollar" but literally "trillions of dollars" - basic world-changing hardware. But even being able to construct prototypes of some of this is still decades away, and entire technologies have to come into existence to make it possible. In some cases I have to invent new physics to make it possible. So how do I know if I'm constructing the distant future, or just receiving it through the multidimensional pathways the mushrooms can open? If I can get the patents then I'll go for the constructing version. 
So to address your point though, why IS it that this isn't better known? Could it be because of uneven results - for every Steve Jobs who allegedly used acid to engineer certain valuable things, are there millions of wanna-bes who never came up with squat? (And I don't hold Jobs in high esteem, BTW, by all accounts he was a professional asshole and not much better personally, and then he threw his life away ignoring mainstream medicine...) Maybe it doesn't matter, if the shit you come up with is good enough... 
OTOH if it doesn't make sense to anybody and it doesn't do anything cool, what's the point exactly? Just sayin'.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19039783 - 10/27/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
So to address your point though, why IS it that this isn't better known? Could it be because of uneven results - for every Steve Jobs who allegedly used acid to engineer certain valuable things, are there millions of wanna-bes who never came up with squat?
Actually no. You put well trained professional people together with well organized psy experiences, patents come out.
I've also seen one of the scientists organizing the sessions in that study, in a documentary. Very worthwhile endeavor if you ask me.
Seeing what I've seen in the aya ceremonies and also shrooms and acid trips, I have no doubt these things can help tremendously with designing real functional products for a great future.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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GoldenEye
...



Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 6 months, 19 days
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19039829 - 10/27/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I recently saw that! It should be researched further.
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: GoldenEye]
#19039853 - 10/27/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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man I do that research almost 6 months and its like freaking work. I just decided to take a psychedelic break because Im have no fun doing it just plain hard freaking work. Also the more you can connect the more you have to fucking process.. It came to a point for me where I was up 20h doing one thing after another all the time without a break. Did that for 2 weeks and was wasted.. But I guess I already have the shit to be a Millionaire and shit
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19040181 - 10/27/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
rikuni said: man I do that research almost 6 months and its like freaking work. I just decided to take a psychedelic break because Im have no fun doing it just plain hard freaking work. Also the more you can connect the more you have to fucking process.. It came to a point for me where I was up 20h doing one thing after another all the time without a break. Did that for 2 weeks and was wasted.. But I guess I already have the shit to be a Millionaire and shit 
Well I think there's a functional way to do that. Santo Daime people use it, Native Americans use it and so on. YOu trip one day, you don't trip and in fact process your visions for 1-2 weeks or whatever period. Then trip again, and repeat, regularly, consistently. Binge tripping probably won't work, you get burnout then be idle for months.
Also working in team is probably more effective than working solo. That's why they do these ceremonies and sweat lodges in groups.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19040234 - 10/27/13 10:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Also working in team is probably more effective than working solo. That's why they do these ceremonies and sweat lodges in groups.
Depends of what your planning to DO. Alone or group both has good and bad sides. 
But if you BADASS like me, you drink alone with insane dosages and channel thangs and stuff
That has some dangerous side effects sometimes.
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19040326 - 10/27/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well for one thing group meetings are regular. You yourself only do it when you feel like it, and it's also less structured.
I'd say using both is best. Even if you stop with the solo tripping, then you at least have the quarterly toga trip & complimentary orgy or something
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19040388 - 10/27/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spacerific said: Well for one thing group meetings are regular. You yourself only do it when you feel like it, and it's also less structured.
I'd say using both is best. Even if you stop with the solo tripping, then you at least have the quarterly toga trip & complimentary orgy or something 
wait a second, there are orgys also where that daime stuff goes down.? Where do i sign up...
I may just have changed my mind completely about that topic
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
#19040725 - 10/27/13 01:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well no there aren't, BUT your sincere reaction (and mine as well actually) makes it obvious that there should be 
For the record I believe that the optima way to live for humans is in tribe-like groups 50+ people, periodic collective shroom / aya / mescaline trips that at least some of the time would probably move quite naturally into orgies. Terence McKenna described it, some of the Aya trips also showed me how it could be done in modern or futuristic urban settings. Tribe doesn't have to mean bows and arrows and mud huts, it can be as futuristic as we can imagine. Level 56 of the skyscraper or section 34 of the space station etc. The skillset of any one tribe doesn't have to be fishing/hunting, it can be advanced propulsion design etc. Guild-style, studied from an early age, specialized focused expertise. Interconnect the know-how of several such communities, you end up with spaceships, cities, anything.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19041306 - 10/27/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah, ayahuasca and orgys in intergalactic crystal like spaceship citys Thats the shit I would like to see
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19041933 - 10/27/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Actually no. You put well trained professional people together with well organized psy experiences, patents come out.
I've also seen one of the scientists organizing the sessions in that study, in a documentary. Very worthwhile endeavor if you ask me.
Seeing what I've seen in the aya ceremonies and also shrooms and acid trips, I have no doubt these things can help tremendously with designing real functional products for a great future.
Yeah, I first read about that many years ago. But it ain't happening now - having "no doubt" is not the same as having a demonstrated working process in hand. Do you have any real life experience with all of this, or are you just quoting what you've found elsewhere? Just curious - see it doesn't really matter to me, as I already do what I do without any problems, have demonstrated the utility, and I know it works.
Don't just talk about it, get busy putting it to use! 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (10/27/13 06:22 PM)
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19041991 - 10/27/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Actually no. You put well trained professional people together with well organized psy experiences, patents come out.
I've also seen one of the scientists organizing the sessions in that study, in a documentary. Very worthwhile endeavor if you ask me.
Seeing what I've seen in the aya ceremonies and also shrooms and acid trips, I have no doubt these things can help tremendously with designing real functional products for a great future.
Having "no doubt" is not the same as having a demonstrated process. Do you have any real life experience with all of this, or are you just quoting what you've found elsewhere? It doesn't really matter to me, as I already do what I do without any problems and I know it works. Just curious... 
PS
Well that study is a demonstrated in itself, isn't it?
I didn't take 10 friends and fed them acid and told them to focus on a real problem, no. I have no acid to spare nor enough tripper friends to give it to, unfortunately 
The one thing I have is my own experience, as once I did go with a question to the aya church. In about 15-20 seconds tops (after I thought to ask the question, at about the peak of the trip) I got the answer to my painting question, and it was severely bleeding out into geometry, architecture, city design and long term emotional well-being for humans. As in, not only how to design a decent looking painting, but also how to design a nice wall and room to put it in, then the same principles actually make great buildings, and those buildings can make a fantastic looking city with incredible tourist and economic potential. A kind of science of aerodynamics, but for human emotions, not for gas molecules, if you will.
I'm sure they'll stumble across it again and end up using it in the future, or they'll feel equally shitty in grey boxy spaceships as we Westerners feel today in the boxy office skyscrapers. Architecture and space affect teh way you feel, and some things are seriously wrong / open to improvement about how we do things now. See Gaudi for more, or Damanhur. Or Hundertwasser. Only those are unique works, while the vision showed ways of standardizing and mass producing it for general consumption, as now we have the cheap computing power and technical means to get it done, unlike a few decades ago.
Now this kind of stuff is probably best discussed and/or tripped about with some sort of interdisciplinary team in a few of those different areas. Or designers of industrial products who could take and apply the same principles.
In any case I'd definitely recommend it for people with the technical problems, to literally walk up to that aya church, partake, then at the height of their experience bring it up. The specific question about industrial welding process, protein folding, decline of bee populations etc. May not work every single time but I'm pretty sure it's 100% worth the try.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19042064 - 10/27/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well that study is a demonstrated in itself, isn't it?
Not necessarily, though that's what it looks like - there are all kinds of confounding effects and opportunities for poor protocol in this kind of thing - much too much to go into. If you haven't done this yourself you're not going to appreciate the finer points of what it takes to actually do it.
But like I said, I've no doubt it works, because I've done it myself off and on for quite a few years with massive doses of mushrooms. That's just a practical study, not a scientific one, but it has produced plenty of results across various fields. Unfortunately some of that is too far advanced to be able to utilize yet, given current technology. 
Well OK, you got a specific answer from an Aya church. That's cool. Have you used it for anything since then?
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19042131 - 10/27/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well OK, you got a specific answer from an Aya church. That's cool. Have you used it for anything since then?
Changed the way I approach certain things in painting, kinds of spaces and lines I prefer in everything, any material object of any scale.
If I ever build or assist in designing a house or anything for that matter, I will use some or all of those principles. I've seen them used by architects and designers with great results, so I know they work. I'm repainting my studio walls, trying to understand those principles and get used to using them. A lifetime of being trained/educated in the completely opposite way, AND living, working studying in poorly designed spaces takes time to rewrite. By the way you've seen a lot of this stuff in psy art already, and also in the design of psychedelic festival stages, things of that nature. I've seen them mentioned by a great hypnotist, how fractals in nature affect our emotions positively.
Unfortunately my confidence and knowledge of the art market (basically my training as a painter, what I was talking about that we need from the human end, technical training) that's far from complete, so implementing has been slowed down tremendously. But again that's on me, I asked the question, was showed a functional working answer, and so far have failed to implement it solely for lack of discipline and so on, not because it was a bad answer. In more skilled hands it would definitely work better.
I could explain a bit more in a PM if need be, perhaps it touches some of your interests as well, or you might have some ideas how to apply it.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Fungi
Psycho4ctive


Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 393
Loc: Melbourne
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
#19042757 - 10/27/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I laugh at people who love psychedelics yet they ignore any messages they are being send. The problem for me is I find it harder and harder fitting into this society.
-------------------- Formerly known as Psycho4ctive To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic, Just Take a Pinch of Psychedelic
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