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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19012679 - 10/22/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I always try to bring the love I feel generated at festivals back into the real world with me. Festivals are an interesting phenomenon, and how we process them is as well. It's really easy for everyone to be all kind and nice for a weekend infused with love enhancing drugs and music and stuff. The challenge lies in integrating that love into our daily lives. Otherwise it's just a cop out IMO.




This. But it is so so so hard that i have nearly given up this last time around. TBH though i think it would benefit many of us to get involved in psychedelic communities. The people i took ayahuasca with, i realized felt extremely safe to me and those are the people i need to start surrounding myself with.


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OfflineTombc1
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19012692 - 10/22/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I always try to bring the love I feel generated at festivals back into the real world with me. Festivals are an interesting phenomenon, and how we process them is as well. It's really easy for everyone to be all kind and nice for a weekend infused with love enhancing drugs and music and stuff. The challenge lies in integrating that love into our daily lives. Otherwise it's just a cop out IMO.




This. But it is so so so hard that i have nearly given up this last time around. TBH though i think it would benefit many of us to get involved in psychedelic communities. The people i took ayahuasca with, i realized felt extremely safe to me and those are the people i need to start surrounding myself with.




I need to find some of said people :laugh:


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Offlinerikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Tombc1]
    #19012707 - 10/22/13 09:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by rikuni (03/16/14 05:20 AM)


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Offlinesof4r0ckeRs1984
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
    #19013046 - 10/22/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The squares are just the red lights that the wolves above put in your way. The snakes spit poison and throw their dead skins after you. There are people far worse than the squares. Don't think that because you're going to University soon you will meet better people. It's rather the opposite! The smarter the people are, the better they understand to have fun, the better they play, the worse it gets. Don't even think people into psychs are better people. Like this conversation that is held by like 0.1% of all shroomery members, imagine what this means in the real world.

To be honest, I wouldn't search for anyone out there. I'd wait until I met the right people rather than trying to bond to some cliques and try hard to be a part of them.


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OfflineSpacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: rikuni]
    #19013098 - 10/22/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I always try to bring the love I feel generated at festivals back into the real world with me. Festivals are an interesting phenomenon, and how we process them is as well. It's really easy for everyone to be all kind and nice for a weekend infused with love enhancing drugs and music and stuff. The challenge lies in integrating that love into our daily lives. Otherwise it's just a cop out IMO.



I know and I am trying as well. I will wear my Boom 2012 bracelet for as long as I have my right hand :biggrin:

I think the festivals are the budding of a new type of spiritual experience, and sooner or later it WILL push psychedelics into responsible mainstream use, like religious contexts and research / learning / problem solving / therapy.

I also plan to volunteer with teams that organize festivals starting with 2014. As an artist it's a good move anyway.

That being said until the festival season and volunteering time comes around, I am having serious difficulties being surrounded with 100% clearheads where I live now. Only benefit is that it motivates me to earn enough to afford some stay in the Netherlands, and hopefully one day move there.

Quote:

rikuni said:
Quote:

Tombc1 said:
Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I always try to bring the love I feel generated at festivals back into the real world with me. Festivals are an interesting phenomenon, and how we process them is as well. It's really easy for everyone to be all kind and nice for a weekend infused with love enhancing drugs and music and stuff. The challenge lies in integrating that love into our daily lives. Otherwise it's just a cop out IMO.




This. But it is so so so hard that i have nearly given up this last time around. TBH though i think it would benefit many of us to get involved in psychedelic communities. The people i took ayahuasca with, i realized felt extremely safe to me and those are the people i need to start surrounding myself with.




I need to find some of said people :laugh:




next to impossible to find, I have tried. Im not speaking of the retreats where you can go for a weekend while paying good cash.. they are easy to find.



Just a quick reminder, in the Netherlands Santo Daime is perfectly legal. santodaime.nl for details. 30 euro for a ceremony. Stay away from the Dance Works :lol:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
    #19013806 - 10/22/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I think the festivals are the budding of a new type of spiritual experience, and sooner or later it WILL push psychedelics into responsible mainstream use, like religious contexts and research / learning / problem solving / therapy.




Doubtful that anything will ever push psychedelics into "responsible" mainstream use - whatever the fuck that might be :lol: - because of the one unbreachable barrier to widespread psychedelic use:  the majority of people are scared shitless by any exposure to mental change.  They like what they are, and they don't want to know more or feel more or be more.

What MIGHT happen someday is big pharma extracting certain aspects of psychedelic side effects and repackaging them molecularly for profit.  It's been done before.  But don't hold your breath that a majority of people will somehow come to embrace changing their minds for the better.  :shake:

As always, these changes are down to the individual, and since that's the only one you have even the remotest possibility of actual influencing, that's where you do the work.  The rest are not on you, as hard as it might be to see. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19015054 - 10/22/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Having seen Santo Daime getting accepted in the Netherlands, I do believe there is hope. If people let themselves be drawn into purely shit ideas like crystal meth, PCP, booze and smoking, I'm pretty sure there are plenty who will follow positive examples as well, and come to partake. These things happen slowly. I imagine if your parent / spouse / role model of any sort is a Santo Daime member for instance, chances are you'll try it out as well at some point, especially if it's socially acceptable. If one of the religions gets accepted into mainstream (and again, in the Netherlands it's already there) this opens the way for others also.

I'm pretty sure sooner or later people will "get" that psychedelics go really well with innovation, design, patents and these things are directly linked to profit and market share. So at some point corporate interests will have no choice but to support their use, for their own people, as they do give a competitive edge in certain fields. Maybe it'll take decades maybe more, but we'll get there I think. Truth eventually comes out.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
    #19016720 - 10/22/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Possibly.  Psychedelics have been around for a long time, though. But just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen sometime.  But does it really matter? IME just trying to apply mushrooms for writing mostly, it was a hard sell to convince anybody else that they really are facilitators. 

There doesn't have to be corporate acceptance - in fact, that would probably be the worst possible thing that could happen, to have your sacrament commercialized. And I suspect psychedelic backlash will undermine any corporate attempts - purely for profit - to utilize such substances as well. They aren't pets, and they won't be slaves. :shrug:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19017503 - 10/23/13 03:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I use them for making art, and I'm pretty sure it's only my lack of technical skills (ability to paint what I see internally, and lack of experience with art promotion) that's keeping me from making crazy bank. But those are both learnable skills so it's only a matter of time. What psychs bring to the table however, that's IMO definitely not learnable skill, and you can't simply copy and learn your way into making that kind of art.

Not sure how it is for writing, but certainly the chances of one getting very original ideas that have never been considered before, is significantly higher with psychs than without. Not 100%, but much much higher.

I don't think there's much to commercialize. If designers, architects and so on, will catch on to the fact that psychs improve certain kinds of cognition / creative processes, and improve them significantly, they might simply become part of the design process, at least for some people. Maybe it's just a segment, like maybe only fellow trippers can even appreciate that kind of architecture properly, so it will be catering to a segment of the market, not all of it.

Look at Hundertwasser architecture for instance. I love it, many people do, but I don't think it's everybody's cup of tea.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineHostDisorder
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Registered: 07/27/12
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
    #19017722 - 10/23/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Spacerific said:
I use them for making art, and I'm pretty sure it's only my lack of technical skills (ability to paint what I see internally, and lack of experience with art promotion) that's keeping me from making crazy bank. But those are both learnable skills so it's only a matter of time. What psychs bring to the table however, that's IMO definitely not learnable skill, and you can't simply copy and learn your way into making that kind of art.

Not sure how it is for writing, but certainly the chances of one getting very original ideas that have never been considered before, is significantly higher with psychs than without. Not 100%, but much much higher.

I don't think there's much to commercialize. If designers, architects and so on, will catch on to the fact that psychs improve certain kinds of cognition / creative processes, and improve them significantly, they might simply become part of the design process, at least for some people. Maybe it's just a segment, like maybe only fellow trippers can even appreciate that kind of architecture properly, so it will be catering to a segment of the market, not all of it.

Look at Hundertwasser architecture for instance. I love it, many people do, but I don't think it's everybody's cup of tea.




Which particular psychs do you find lend themselves best towards creativity? I suppose the dose can't be heavy? And also, when you've sobered up, do the ideas that arose in your trip still seem innovative?


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: HostDisorder]
    #19017853 - 10/23/13 07:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

OP im sure many have said something like this but just let me say that if youre feeling alienated by society then that means youre doing SOMETHING right :shrug:


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Offlinenecrobytez
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #19018173 - 10/23/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yup i feel alienated everytime i get social.


--------------------


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
    #19019051 - 10/23/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Spacerific said:
I use them for making art, and I'm pretty sure it's only my lack of technical skills (ability to paint what I see internally, and lack of experience with art promotion) that's keeping me from making crazy bank. But those are both learnable skills so it's only a matter of time. What psychs bring to the table however, that's IMO definitely not learnable skill, and you can't simply copy and learn your way into making that kind of art.

Not sure how it is for writing, but certainly the chances of one getting very original ideas that have never been considered before, is significantly higher with psychs than without. Not 100%, but much much higher.

I don't think there's much to commercialize. If designers, architects and so on, will catch on to the fact that psychs improve certain kinds of cognition / creative processes, and improve them significantly, they might simply become part of the design process, at least for some people. Maybe it's just a segment, like maybe only fellow trippers can even appreciate that kind of architecture properly, so it will be catering to a segment of the market, not all of it.

Look at Hundertwasser architecture for instance. I love it, many people do, but I don't think it's everybody's cup of tea.




A lot of people already know all of this.  When you talk about "corporate" interests I assume you're talking about commercialization, nothing more.  Sorry if I misunderstood.

What isn't widely known though are the more subtle aspects of psychs, in which I'm referring to mushrooms - which is my experience.  Controlled studies could pick this stuff up.  They haven't been done yet.  If and when they are expect a vast increase in pharma interest.

Creativity is always a noble goal, BTW. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: HostDisorder]
    #19019285 - 10/23/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

HostDisorder said:
Quote:

Spacerific said:
I use them for making art, and I'm pretty sure it's only my lack of technical skills (ability to paint what I see internally, and lack of experience with art promotion) that's keeping me from making crazy bank. But those are both learnable skills so it's only a matter of time. What psychs bring to the table however, that's IMO definitely not learnable skill, and you can't simply copy and learn your way into making that kind of art.

Not sure how it is for writing, but certainly the chances of one getting very original ideas that have never been considered before, is significantly higher with psychs than without. Not 100%, but much much higher.

I don't think there's much to commercialize. If designers, architects and so on, will catch on to the fact that psychs improve certain kinds of cognition / creative processes, and improve them significantly, they might simply become part of the design process, at least for some people. Maybe it's just a segment, like maybe only fellow trippers can even appreciate that kind of architecture properly, so it will be catering to a segment of the market, not all of it.

Look at Hundertwasser architecture for instance. I love it, many people do, but I don't think it's everybody's cup of tea.




Which particular psychs do you find lend themselves best towards creativity? I suppose the dose can't be heavy? And also, when you've sobered up, do the ideas that arose in your trip still seem innovative?



Ayahuasca, mushrooms, acid, salvia, mescaline. I'd say Ibogaine because other artists have spoken well of it, but I haven't tried it myself yet so I don't know.

The dose can and should be quite high actually, if you want to get anywhere. But the thing is that your vision will tell you only in ways you can understand and know about. If you're a chemist, you'll get chemistry-related insights and idea. If you're an architect, you'll get architecture ideas. If you're a painter, you'll get painting ideas and so on. You have to have the training and ways of expression, to make something with the content that's shown to you.

Here read this article right here, see how this works.

Since I'm a painter I care most for visual arts and ideas that came from the psychedelic realm. Visionary art as it's called lately. But I have received specific info regarding architecture for instance, design, very 3D ideas, when simply asking the vision about painting. That's the value of these experiences, that you ask about one thing and they shift your attention in unpredictable ways, to consider very innovative interactions. Like in the case of a painting, the shape of the wall that it's on, the shape of the room, building and city that the building is in, etc. I asked a question about what to paint (in an Ayahuasca trip) and I got answers that included pretty much how to live the rest of my life, not just to put on one canvas. And they were the kind of answers that if I had any architecture training and experience, would rock our fucking world. Since I don't, I guess we'll have to wait for an architect to show up for that Aya :lol:












Not saying Gaudi was into psychedelics, but his works certainly looks like something's up :lol:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19019356 - 10/23/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

Spacerific said:
I use them for making art, and I'm pretty sure it's only my lack of technical skills (ability to paint what I see internally, and lack of experience with art promotion) that's keeping me from making crazy bank. But those are both learnable skills so it's only a matter of time. What psychs bring to the table however, that's IMO definitely not learnable skill, and you can't simply copy and learn your way into making that kind of art.

Not sure how it is for writing, but certainly the chances of one getting very original ideas that have never been considered before, is significantly higher with psychs than without. Not 100%, but much much higher.

I don't think there's much to commercialize. If designers, architects and so on, will catch on to the fact that psychs improve certain kinds of cognition / creative processes, and improve them significantly, they might simply become part of the design process, at least for some people. Maybe it's just a segment, like maybe only fellow trippers can even appreciate that kind of architecture properly, so it will be catering to a segment of the market, not all of it.

Look at Hundertwasser architecture for instance. I love it, many people do, but I don't think it's everybody's cup of tea.




A lot of people already know all of this.  When you talk about "corporate" interests I assume you're talking about commercialization, nothing more.  Sorry if I misunderstood.

What isn't widely known though are the more subtle aspects of psychs, in which I'm referring to mushrooms - which is my experience.  Controlled studies could pick this stuff up.  They haven't been done yet.  If and when they are expect a vast increase in pharma interest.

Creativity is always a noble goal, BTW. :thumbup:

:peace:PS



Well people might know of this in some vague generic way, but if they don't actually apply it in daily life and production processes, it's as if they didn't know at all.

I'm having my own struggles with my artistic training and whatever, so results for me personally are slow to show at this time, but I consider good deep proper tripping as vital to me as an artist, as would be good drawing, color mixing or observation skills.

In practice, I've put in several international trips for the specific purpose of strong psychedelic experiences, and plan to do this for the rest of my life, as much as I can afford it. Netherlands a few times until now, but much more once my budget will permit. I'm looking to go to Peru for example, because there's a certain kind of "art plant" there, an additive to Ayahuasca, that's basically supercharged Ayahuasca specifically for art and design purposes.

Now the question is why don't most world-class designers (of products, cars, industrial design etc, billion dollar businesses) know about this and actually send their best people over there to get this neural upgrade? Why don't they even go for regular Ayahuasca, although they have a legal option here in Europe for some years now? Because these professionals literally don't know it exists, haven't absorbed this fact into their day to day operations and design processes. Or training as a designer. They don't "get" how having a person boosted by this experience, would impact their bottom line over the next 20-30 years or creative endeavors.

And you do have to have the professional training and expertise as well. You won't be inventing LSD after a trip if you're not a chemist.

I expect professional designers and corporations of all sorts to get into this, because to a properly trained individual (artist, designer, chemist, researcher) a few cups of aya worth $50 could bring ideas worth billions, if properly implemented. The kind of benefits don't even come from one person taking them, but like the Internet, comes from the interactions of many people taking them and using those ideas. When the corporate world really "gets" this fact, IMO all this legal bullshit will vanish, because psychedelics properly used turn directly into profit.

That plant is out there. Largely unknown even to the people that know about Ayahuasca and psychs. I've seen art made after it. There wasn't much convincing to be done after I've seen the art. I know I have to save up and take it, for me it's not even optional.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
    #19035591 - 10/26/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Well people might know of this in some vague generic way, but if they don't actually apply it in daily life and production processes, it's as if they didn't know at all.




:lol:  Obviously I'm not referring to ALL people, just SOME people.

The rest is, just do it.  Don't set arbitrary limits on what you can do.  :thumbup:

And in answer to "why don't...send people...neural upgrade?"  No fucking way is it that simple.  The spectrum of side effects is complex and the rabbit hole is very deep.  You have to be extremely motivated to make use of this stuff, and if you aren't that way, it just slaps your ass and tells you to go away. :shrug:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineGreySatyr
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19035822 - 10/26/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I went through this BAD for about a year. I dropped a shit ton of acid one Spring and then I moved and just felt how ridiculous society is. Yeah, it is really ridiculous but part of it is also you. I had to stop psychedelics for about ten months just to feel somewhat normal again. It's really hard to integrate your life changing experiences when uoufeelthis way and its easy to run and pretend its better to be somewhere else with other people when all you really need is to jump Ito society and lay your own foundation and just watch how many of those guilty bone heads agree with you on most topics but they don't have the will to change themselves because they haven't ever thunk a thought before until you put it into their minds.

The key is being assertive and not so damn passive like most psychedelic users are. Be aggressive in your change of life and show people the way, don't drop out of society but force your closest friends to look from a different view and in turn they will show others the way. You need to establish a sort of foundation within your circle of acquaintances instead of bein some passive introverted freak to them you must be a charismatic psychedelic savior. Take action, boy!


--------------------
...also, go to hell, huh?


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Offlinec0ntent_in_spac3
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: GreySatyr]
    #19036351 - 10/26/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

@Tombc1 aka OP

I've felt similar at one point and still do sometimes until I break it down.. We aren't "insane" by any means, thinking that is just ur own thought process convincing u that u are. We're simply just way more "connected to our surroundings" and aware of how stupid materialistic things are ect.. u get it my man! If anything everyone else are the insane ones.. so worried about following trends like u were saying, brain washed and caught up in relationships ect. They're so caught up in their own egos without even knowing it and we can see it all


So how does that make us "insane" per say?? Don't ever get it messed up like that. Any time u do feel that way think this, has always helped me....


"Your not insane, why do u even need your sanity? It's just another thing that keeps u from reality anyways"

And once u realize that and learn to let ur thoughts flow by and not think urself into madness like that.. lottttttsssssss of things about ur life will change for the better. U'll be loved by everybody for being more "real" than anyone else too. Eat clean, try to sleep right and treat ur body well.. a car can't be well maintained without the proper care. Be well my brother:heart:


--------------------
The ego tries to prove that we cannot change, undermining our ability to transcend obstacles


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19037104 - 10/26/13 06:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

Well people might know of this in some vague generic way, but if they don't actually apply it in daily life and production processes, it's as if they didn't know at all.




:lol:  Obviously I'm not referring to ALL people, just SOME people.

The rest is, just do it.  Don't set arbitrary limits on what you can do.  :thumbup:

And in answer to "why don't...send people...neural upgrade?"  No fucking way is it that simple.  The spectrum of side effects is complex and the rabbit hole is very deep.  You have to be extremely motivated to make use of this stuff, and if you aren't that way, it just slaps your ass and tells you to go away. :shrug:

:peace:PS



Well I only have my own experience to go by here, but here's my thinking: many designers / artists / engineers / whatever, are actually VERY involved in their profession. They DO put in massive amounts of time in reading, practicing, learning, training, so they DO have sincere desire. If the next step reads "ask the plant about it" I am sure many people would put in the time to ask it properly. If sent to a shaman, or even presented with the plant alone, I think many would get highly interesting answers. Shamans may say - go eat this specific diet for a week. Many people would do it. In the exact same way they learn to wear gloves and masks to avoid contaminations, they would learn to do this and do it right. If the requirements and benefits were more accurately known, many people would actually go the distance.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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Offlinesof4r0ckeRs1984
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Registered: 07/30/10
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Re: Feel alienated from society [Re: Spacerific]
    #19037183 - 10/26/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Just met somebody on the tram, he said he was son by profession.
I wonder if his father was father by profession...

"I have rich parents and what can you do?"

Poor planet :laugh2:


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