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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
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Re: You will find no answer [Re: viktor]
#19000742 - 10/19/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Animals without the neural equipment to experience a sense of self can experience pain.
How could you possibly know whether animals have the "neural equipment to experience a sense of self"?
The mirror test, seems a good indicator that some animals have a sense of self.
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
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Re: You will find no answer [Re: falcon]
#19000773 - 10/19/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Or a good indicator that some animals are indifferent to mirrors
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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Re: You will find no answer [Re: viktor]
#19000790 - 10/19/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So human babies suddenly become interested in mirrors when they hit a certain age? Until then they are just indifferent to them whether they are self conscience or not?
-------------------- Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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viktor
psychotechnician



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Re: You will find no answer [Re: Cactilove]
#19000804 - 10/19/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dunno. I just object to the idea that if animals had a sense of self they would recognisably behave like us.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


Registered: 07/31/05
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Re: You will find no answer [Re: viktor]
#19000881 - 10/19/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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We behave like them.
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
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Re: You will find no answer [Re: WScott]
#19000968 - 10/19/13 06:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If animals have no sense of self, and we behave like them, then we have no sense of self 
I'm sure there are dogs out there who look at us and think "if those hairless apes had a sense of self they'd lick their own arses more"
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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Re: You will find no answer [Re: viktor]
#19001343 - 10/19/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
If animals have no sense of self, and we behave like them, then we have no sense of self
That's an assumption held in the face of evidence that suggests otherwise. We behave like animals, because we are animals. Animals with a sense of self.
Quote:
I'm sure there are dogs out there who look at us and think "if those hairless apes had a sense of self they'd lick their own arses more"
Perhaps but, I doubt it. As far as I know the isn't much convincing evidence that dogs think in the english language.
-------------------- Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
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Re: You will find no answer [Re: Cactilove]
#19001480 - 10/19/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have no evidence that anyone other than me has a sense of self.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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Re: You will find no answer [Re: viktor]
#19001569 - 10/19/13 09:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Time to get experimenting son.
-------------------- Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Re: You will find no answer [Re: Cactilove]
#19001909 - 10/19/13 10:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Does a spider require a sense of self in order to sing and dance for a potential mate?
If a spider had absolutely no sense of self, could it be so sexy?
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