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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: agar recipe question [Re: bodhisatta]
#19026295 - 10/24/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Honestly I also have some serious issues with the companies that produce most of this product. The main reason I dislike it is because of how they subtly manipulate the world's agriculture to incresingly force their product on the world as the fertilization method despite how clearly harmful it is for soils and the effect on the environment it can have when directly exposed. But this applies to their widespread common use for plants, not this.
It undeniably comes down to very unclear epistemic issues so we must consider these things best we can. For one, using the ferts as described in my prep process results in them being neutralized by the time both the bacterial pre-ferment and many mushroom flushes are done. Almost regardless of how you dispose of the cakes the ferts are not exposed to the environment as such. Secondly, this uses an extremely small amount of it. Not even the smallest undetectable fraction of fert sales will ever be attributed to this use. This means that most people can buy more than they'll use in their lives by giving less than a dollar in margin to any company. Plus, it's possible to consider a couple ways that this may be using their product "against" them so-to-speak. Thirdly, the differences I see are not so slight, and after deflating the applicable severity of the prior points it seems much more in reach to outweigh the potential cons. Some of my increased potency is due to the combined factors of nutrient density, reduced colony size, consolidation, multiple flushing, and solid genes. But even all of these combined do not truly account for the ~2x potency I've become accustomed to.
The main thing I would like to point out is this: Just about everyone who speaks out against the use of ferts as such isn't doing so out of their own experience but is parroting the words of myco forum heads & community homies they look up to, most of which also have not even tried using as such and say so. I don't see why such persons waste their time on topics like this. What is appropriate is finding out not bashing-by-default based on the snarky words of a few.
As for the last part... As I've said to Stromrider, I don't get why people are tying me in with Anne. You should know better than to think that applies to me. And for that matter it doesn't even apply to Anne the way hateful people (or rather as mostly seems to be the case, new people) like to pretend. There's only one thing to say about that matter: While some were making an enemy and etching onto the record a very premature and unscientific stance, learning and gaining nothing, I made a friend and learned tons.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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InTheBiggun
The Milk-Man



Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 200
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: agar recipe question [Re: Violet]
#19026961 - 10/24/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The list of what works for agar is huge...and includes lots of "weird" additives, such dogfood, vegetables, you name it. Thousands of possible additives can work, including fertilizer apparently.
Its down to whats convenient for the grower.
The ancient tried and provens like PDA, MEA etc work excellently, but so do a pile of other ingredients.
I mentioned the side by side comparison between fert-agar and non-fert, because it was done with care by an experienced grower who was genuinely interested in the results. It clearly showed that fert-agar worked, but was inferior to grain soak water agar.
That may not convince you, and I respect that.
Use whatever works for you.
Edited by InTheBiggun (10/24/13 05:35 PM)
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 18 hours, 58 minutes
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I know you shouldn't be tied with Anne because after all your post are generally well thought out, well written, and delivered politely. Everything Anne 's post are not. Those facts aside most users still tie you with Anne 
Violet just because we don't agree on everything about mycology doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion and enjoy reading your post. I especially enjoyed your post about BE yesterday
Edited by Stromrider (10/24/13 06:03 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: agar recipe question [Re: Stromrider]
#19027243 - 10/24/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry to be off topic but one question. How do you validate twice as potent? That's like saying 80 feels twice as hot as 40 or 50. I'm sure it was done with an isolate and you honestly feel like they're more potent but how do you come up with twice as potent. Does it feel twice, are there twice as many grams of actives when you extract from with and without?
Most people worth their salt say the gene level determines the amount of actives produced regardless of environment as long as the environment is sufficient. Not like nutrients that get uptook are going to lead to a signal cascade at a cellular level to produce more actives.
You dodge the point of needlessly advising fertilizers to new growers and that combined with the "most potent" delusion that they become twice as potent helps get these newbs hooked. Most newbs are looking for ways to get better potency and then boom one of two people usually shows up hence your linkage to anne. I don't doubt that you're not her but you work on the same motives.
Conspiracy time. Feed new grower Fert=2x potency when they're unable to discern trusted vs untrusted sources and good science from pseudoscience. A lot of new growers get fumbled into being less than they can be so maybe your motives are against mush-cult. I could see talking about ferts to seasoned vets but in a way you have tried and now are shut out because the original way you presented your evidence is laughable compared to the scientific paradigms. The avocation is always to your nay sayers "well have you tried it?" If I said you get better gas mileage with your seat belt off and had some low quality proof photos would you still try it?
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: agar recipe question [Re: bodhisatta]
#19027336 - 10/24/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't know why you guys continue to battle Violet over this stuff.
It's a lose/lose for everyone.
I can't convince a Christian that God does not exist and a Christian can't convince me that it does. That's what these debates sound like to me.
Anyone who wants to follow Violet should do so.
If Violets methods suck, then the evidence will present itself through multiple experiments by multiple people.
Violet, you can't awaken those who refuse to awaken. I don't understand why you continue to try.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 18 hours, 58 minutes
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: I don't know why you guys continue to battle Violet over this stuff.
It's a lose/lose for everyone.
I can't convince a Christian that God does not exist and a Christian can't convince me that it does. That's what these debates sound like to me.
Anyone who wants to follow Violet should do so.
If Violets methods suck, then the evidence will present itself through multiple experiments by multiple people.
Violet, you can't awaken those who refuse to awaken. I don't understand why you continue to try.
Quote:
SpitballJedi said: I don't know why you guys continue to battle Violet over this stuff.
It's a lose/lose for everyone.
I can't convince a Christian that God does not exist and a Christian can't convince me that it does. That's what these debates sound like to me.
Anyone who wants to follow Violet should do so.
If Violets methods suck, then the evidence will present itself through multiple experiments by multiple people.
Violet, you can't awaken those who refuse to awaken. I don't understand why you continue to try.
Double QFT
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InTheBiggun
The Milk-Man



Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 200
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: agar recipe question [Re: Stromrider]
#19027540 - 10/24/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Questions, even leading to debate aren't such a bad thing.
It doesn't have to get personal or nasty. A little passion in opinion is acceptable.
Not every debate is an argument...
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 18 hours, 58 minutes
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That is true biggun. I have learned a lot by reading people's debates on here and being a part of them myself. I enjoy hearing how other people do things even I don't agree
Edited by Stromrider (10/24/13 07:14 PM)
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: agar recipe question [Re: Stromrider]
#19031369 - 10/25/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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when the cat is away, the mice will play....
nice try peeps.
bottom line, the stuff works.

GFA ( grain fert agars)
in the new age, new choices abound.
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 920
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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nice pics, how come you use them little bottles?
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: agar recipe question [Re: bakenast]
#19032362 - 10/25/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bakenast said: nice pics, how come you use them little bottles?
actually those are 1/2 litre polycarbonate culture bottles. surface area a little more than a 110mm standard plate.
no breakage, no polyfilm flypaper episodes, fast slurrys in the 500 ml, size.....
our lab ops are all plastic ( PP5 and polycarbonate) and , 100% LED light.
Edited by anne halonium (10/25/13 06:14 PM)
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 920
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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so do you just screw the lid on tight or leave it slightly loose? when letting it colonize
i like the slurry idea too!
Edited by bakenast (10/25/13 06:31 PM)
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: agar recipe question [Re: bakenast]
#19032510 - 10/25/13 06:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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loose lids..........
you seem like your interested in the more advanced type of teks/ equip.
have you seen " violet tek"?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18135103
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 920
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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link doesnt work on my end,,,
i like the little bottle idea, would make it easy to make a agar lc out of it,
I meant do you screw the lids on tight would there still be enought air in jar to colonize the agar...
wonder if a syringe filter drilled and stuck on the cap would be a good idea then screw on tight,, thanks
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: agar recipe question [Re: bakenast]
#19032595 - 10/25/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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polycarbs are designed to be loose screw lids.......... as you will note from the pic, there is no shortage of air. those grow out in about a week .........
violet tek is easy to find , with almost 23k hits, it comes up every few days, or find it thru violets threads....
35 yrs growing, pro physics ( light) lab and bio tech lab experience, add in advanced equip, and, you can see why im the wicked witch of the shroomery.........
reading above, i see youve met the winged monkeys.....
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Edited by anne halonium (10/25/13 07:05 PM)
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 920
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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sorry im a lil confused.. so after innoculating the agar you just screw the lid on loose correct ? This is enought to keep out contaminents..
im actually got some small pp5 bottles that i could use, i just dont know if there caps are pp5 as well.. lol
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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ya observe.........

full fruits.......nothing is suffocating.
spores germ fast.

ive used all the popular agars. i choose fert agar for the performance, and ,others do too.
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Edited by anne halonium (10/25/13 07:19 PM)
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 920
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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fert-- the only type i have is npk 12-12-12 would this work you think
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: agar recipe question [Re: bakenast]
#19032730 - 10/25/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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it would be excellent.
mix as directed, soak seeds, or, just use rice flour even........
for the BRF , use about 1/4 cup per qt.
it can be made in quantity, then froze and reheated as needed.
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Edited by anne halonium (10/25/13 07:30 PM)
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