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dr.alkaline



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I think big pharma/industry is great
#18989054 - 10/16/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I often hear people complaining about these companies and how their profits are unfair or their practices are unethical(patent duration/animal testing etc). Big pharma is often synonymous for evil profiteering cooperation in casual conversation. I argue support for these companies, for I think they are powerhouses for advancing science. The massive amount of resources these companies have allow then to run experiments that grant supported academia/government labs can't touch. Its incredible.
Come at me
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bloodsheen
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: dr.alkaline]
#18989142 - 10/17/13 12:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The reason you are wrong is because they aren't just powerhouses for advancing science, they are powerhouses for RAPING SCIENCE DOWN YOUR MOTHERFUCKING FACE HOLE. They create all of these new drugs (for sometimes totally pointless medical conditions, the most obvious being restless leg syndrome) without caring how they impact individuals or society. They are essentially written a morality blank check by the government because they help sick people get better, regardless of how they effect society overall. Just look at the side effects list of your average new-fangled type drug. Something made to help with psoriasis can lead to liver damage and suicide. Shit is madness, and humans weren't meant to live this way.
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: bloodsheen] 2
#18989709 - 10/17/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't know what country you live in, but in the U.S., pharmaceutical companies don't force people to take their drugs. Doctors don't force people to take drugs, either.
People want a pill to cure every ailment, so the pharmaceutical companies develop them. If people didn't want to find a way to get an erection through chemistry, there wouldn't be so many "male enhancement" drugs.
Blaming the pharmaceutical companies for making drugs is like blaming oil companies for all of the carbon you're spewing into the air with your car.
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dr.alkaline



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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#18989887 - 10/17/13 08:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Forgot to mention new methods and protocols developed by these companies through the course of r and d. I bet dollars to donuts bloodsheen that when you get sick you go to the hospital and receive treatment developed by these companies. And when you become old and very sick I really doubt you will turn down these treatments. I don't think there is a law of the nature that dictates how we were "meant to live", when I have cancer and a doctor offers me growth factor inhibitors im taking them and thanking science at the same time. I don't think enough people realize how sick people got in the past from ailments that are treatable today because the patent process gave people incentive to develop medications. Without the financial incentive these drugs may not exist. The body is complex and there is crosstalk between systems, so of course most drugs will have side effects. Some are much worse than others, and some are not bad. No generalization is worth a damn.
Edited by dr.alkaline (10/17/13 08:55 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#18990180 - 10/17/13 10:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I don't know what country you live in, but in the U.S., pharmaceutical companies don't force people to take their drugs. Doctors don't force people to take drugs, either.
People want a pill to cure every ailment, so the pharmaceutical companies develop them. If people didn't want to find a way to get an erection through chemistry, there wouldn't be so many "male enhancement" drugs.
Blaming the pharmaceutical companies for making drugs is like blaming oil companies for all of the carbon you're spewing into the air with your car.
When you're right you're right.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Dorian Gray
▐═██████═───



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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#18990759 - 10/17/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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What Obamacare plan should we buy to maximize Xanax scripts? OTD needs a tek thread.
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Kiya_Star427
Live FREE or be a SLAVE!


Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Icelander]
#18991279 - 10/17/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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But he's absolutely wrong, parents are forced into giving children Prescription Big Pharma pills because of school for example like adderal. If a teacher diagnosis a little child, he/she is then forced to take drugs with the parents consent, he is drugged at home and he is drugged at school forcibly during lunch time.
If you are caught not giving the medication, guess who comes and visits you. The CPS and we all know about the CPS, how many times have they gotten caught drugging BABY's forcibly, you see this is all being done under Eugenics just like Obamacare, this is all for the profits for Big Pharma aka the government.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#18991316 - 10/17/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: But he's absolutely wrong, parents are forced into giving children Prescription Big Pharma pills because of school for example like adderal. If a teacher diagnosis a little child, he/she is then forced to take drugs with the parents consent, he is drugged at home and he is drugged at school forcibly during lunch time.
If you are caught not giving the medication, guess who comes and visits you. The CPS and we all know about the CPS, how many times have they gotten caught drugging BABY's forcibly, you see this is all being done under Eugenics just like Obamacare, this is all for the profits for Big Pharma aka the government.
Please provide your evidence that teachers are empowered to diagnose students and forcibly medicate them. Thank you in advance.
I suspect you're making all of this shit up based on the fact that your parents tried to get you the medical attention that you needed. If you got on the proper meds, you might actually be able to see how crazy your theories are.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil] 1
#18991409 - 10/17/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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LOL you don't think young kids are put on psychotropic drugs forcibly? Here watch these are CPS government workers taking baby's from parents and putting them on drugs for crying. See if I'm lying, you can't make shit like this up. Please look it up for yourself too!
LOL HAHAHAHA HERES FOX NEWS admitting that CPS forcibly DRUGGED A 3 YEAR OLD GIRL ALMOST TO DEATH!!
THE Worst part about CPS IS THAT the whole point of the CPS is to STEAL AND SELL YOUR CHILDREN AS SLAVES to the elite New World Order SCUM BAGS that run the prostitution rings, the child pedophile rings the drug rings the, WAR TRADE, THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, THE Genetically Modified Organisms, the prison system, the nwo police grid we live under they run all the gangs from Los Zetas to the Al Ciaduh's, they run your life, they run my life, and the think they run the world, WE MUST STAND UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited by Kiya_Star427 (10/17/13 03:16 PM)
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#18991449 - 10/17/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The CPS came to steal me away when I was a child, for walking to school, I lived a stones throw away, they came and if it wasn't for my mom yelling to me shit in Korean, cause they were asking me if my brother would beat me up, WHAT KIND OF BROTHER DOESN'T BEAT UP HIS YOUNGER BROTHER? ARE THEY CRAZY? I would've been abducted and forcibly drugged some more under the New World Order system.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#18991452 - 10/17/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: THE Worst part about CPS IS THAT the whole point of the CPS is to STEAL AND SELL YOUR CHILDREN AS SLAVES to the elite New World Order SCUM BAGS that run the prostitution rings, the child pedophile rings the drug rings the, WAR TRADE, THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, THE Genetically Modified Organisms, the prison system, the nwo police grid we live under they run all the gangs from Los Zetas to the Al Ciaduh's, they run your life, they run my life, and the think they run the world, WE MUST STAND UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow...just wow...
You really should stick to the forum.
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Kiya_Star427
Live FREE or be a SLAVE!


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#18991466 - 10/17/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That really happened are you going to pretend like that didn't happen? Hey why are you so pro government anyways, are you some type of shill?
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Kiya_Star427
Live FREE or be a SLAVE!


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#18991473 - 10/17/13 03:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also LOL you asked for proof, I gave you the proof and now you don't believe it or something? what is wrong with you man? I don't understand does that not count as being forcibly drugged? I know many children that were forcibly drugged look at any school all those kids are on drugs, for made up NWO diseases like ADD, and depression. Do you know what these drugs do to a growing childs brain, but your actually going to defend them, either b/c your a shill or you have no heart and no soul. Which you don't think there is soul so LOL there you go
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#18991510 - 10/17/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Conspiracy nutters always think that youtube videos are evidence. That doesn't make it so.
Where is your evidence that CPS sells children into slavery?
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#18991671 - 10/17/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Look it up, there are so many accounts of children being stolen by the CPS even a 3 DAY OLD BABY was taken from there parents it made it on the mainstream media, b/c it was that extreme, BUT little do they know that Black and poor family's GET there baby's taken all the TIME for being poor, and look you proof that they sell these children for money
Source: https://stopcorruptdss.wordpress.com/tag/cash-bonuses/ -...That the Adoption and Safe Families Act set in motion first in 1974 by Walter Mondale, later in 1997, by Pres. Bill Clinton, offered cash bonuses to the states for every child they adopted out of foster care. In order to receive the adoption incentive bonuses, local CPS would need more children. They must have merchandise that sells and they must have plenty so the buyer can choose....
Source: http://www.change.org/petitions/legally-kidnapped-by-cps-child-protective-services -Thousands of families are being torn apart by CPS. CPS gets a bonus every time they remove a child from their home.....
Source: http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/939850 CPS/DPSS/DFS CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT (RIVERSIDE, CA) FOR KIDNAPPING OUR CHILDREN WITHOUT CAUSE
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#18991687 - 10/17/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So now your wrong about 9/11, Forced medication for baby's, CPS kidnapping rings, Government shipping in all the drugs and running all the drug cartels like the Los Zetas (Remember they just caught shipping hundreds of assault weapons, rocket launchers and grenades to the Los Zetas, all the top Zetas people are CIA, that is why) It' just like Al Qaeda is run by the CIA and Osama Bin Laden was a CIA asset named Tim Osman. LOL What a delusional life you choose to live just denying reality and fighting for the Rights of the Government over the people of America
Edited by Kiya_Star427 (10/17/13 04:13 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#18991693 - 10/17/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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None of your links support your claim that CPS sells children into slavery. Please provide evidence to support the claim or admit that you're lying.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#18991705 - 10/17/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#18991720 - 10/17/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can't come up with a single credible source? Not one?
I'm starting to think that you are in serious need of DA antagonists to regulate your dopamine levels.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#18991729 - 10/17/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok so tell me what they do with all the thousands of children they steal from parents, tell me what they do with them? Please tell me there not used in child pornography and sold to pedophile rings, b/c if you look it up these people run the prostitution rings too the Government owns all of this including the Drug War and the Private Prison Industry which you defend so much.
Private prisons are not prisons owned and operated by the the USA, they are privately owned working facility's, for cheap labor. All they need to do is catch you with the drugs they shipped in.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#18991749 - 10/17/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Private prisons account for less than 5% of the prisoners in the U.S. Private prisons are used because they are cheaper than public prisons and save taxpayer dollars.
CPS children are not sold into prostitution or slavery. They are put into foster care which, unfortunately, is not ideal. Calling it slavery, however, is simply bullshit.
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Le_Canard
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: dr.alkaline]
#18992272 - 10/17/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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He does have a point. They spend a good deal to do a lot of interesting research. Does that justify screwing Americans, though? They charge waaaaay more in the US for the same thing than they do in every other country. I won't begrudge any business making a profit, but I dunno....
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Mr. Bojangles
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Le_Canard]
#18996354 - 10/18/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Conspiracy nuts aside...
Industry does drive innovation. This is both good and bad. I've worked for the pharma industry and in academia doing pretty much the same things but industry was able to do pretty much what they want, when they wanted it because they just had TONS of capital. Also the sheer speed of development was unreal in industry. Think of the Manhattan Project when the government pretty much gathered the best and brightest and wrote them a blank check and they were able to do something seemingly unfathomable in such a short amount of time...that's kinda how industry is...except they make their own checks. A large NIH or DOE grant for us, and I mean huge...like, they don't normally do things like this...was $130M. We didn't get it though, and there's certainly not that much NIH money to give to multiple programs to do significant research. Industry, however, has multiple entities with much more money than that to spend on new research which is a HUGE innovation driver.
The other side of the sword is that research needs to be directed at something that can possibly make them money. Those things aren't always the things that are going to further health and well-being in society but that's not their prerogative and it shouldn't be. It used to bother me but when I see the processes and actual useful shit that industry produces as a result of making something that's marketable...its worth it.
I can't talk for healthcare too much...although I will tell you it costs $1B to push a drug through to market given all the stuff the FDA makes a new drug candidate go through. Add on to the fact that patent protection runs out after 20 years and the whole approval process usually takes 12...they need a blockbuster drug or their going to pass the cost. They pass the cost to US consumers because no one is advocating for lower prices. Sure, the consumers are "demanding" lower prices but we all get our insurance through companies who really don't give a fuck because they just pass the cost to us. Other countries with things like single-payer (just an example, not touting anything here) just don't put up with that shit. And if the only payer in the country (aka the govt) won't buy your drugs unless their below a certain prices...well, you gotta drop your price.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." Francois-Marie Arouet
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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin



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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
#18996784 - 10/18/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said: Conspiracy nuts aside...
Industry does drive innovation. This is both good and bad. I've worked for the pharma industry and in academia doing pretty much the same things but industry was able to do pretty much what they want, when they wanted it because they just had TONS of capital. Also the sheer speed of development was unreal in industry. Think of the Manhattan Project when the government pretty much gathered the best and brightest and wrote them a blank check and they were able to do something seemingly unfathomable in such a short amount of time...that's kinda how industry is...except they make their own checks. A large NIH or DOE grant for us, and I mean huge...like, they don't normally do things like this...was $130M. We didn't get it though, and there's certainly not that much NIH money to give to multiple programs to do significant research. Industry, however, has multiple entities with much more money than that to spend on new research which is a HUGE innovation driver.
The other side of the sword is that research needs to be directed at something that can possibly make them money. Those things aren't always the things that are going to further health and well-being in society but that's not their prerogative and it shouldn't be. It used to bother me but when I see the processes and actual useful shit that industry produces as a result of making something that's marketable...its worth it.
I can't talk for healthcare too much...although I will tell you it costs $1B to push a drug through to market given all the stuff the FDA makes a new drug candidate go through. Add on to the fact that patent protection runs out after 20 years and the whole approval process usually takes 12...they need a blockbuster drug or their going to pass the cost. They pass the cost to US consumers because no one is advocating for lower prices. Sure, the consumers are "demanding" lower prices but we all get our insurance through companies who really don't give a fuck because they just pass the cost to us. Other countries with things like single-payer (just an example, not touting anything here) just don't put up with that shit. And if the only payer in the country (aka the govt) won't buy your drugs unless their below a certain prices...well, you gotta drop your price.
Pretty much sums up both sides
--------------------
A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: dr.alkaline]
#18999410 - 10/19/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
dr.alkaline said: I often hear people complaining about these companies and how their profits are unfair or their practices are unethical(patent duration/animal testing etc). Big pharma is often synonymous for evil profiteering cooperation in casual conversation. I argue support for these companies, for I think they are powerhouses for advancing science. The massive amount of resources these companies have allow then to run experiments that grant supported academia/government labs can't touch. Its incredible.
Come at me
I dont hate on them for what they do to HELP the world such as creating new medicines not existing in nature.
I hate big PHARM for creating their medicines around trating symptoms and not caring about side effects as that just helps sell more medicine in cocktail form.
If big PHARM did find a cure for cancer in its research it would no doubt choose to NEVER market it. Cured people dont make you money.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#18999417 - 10/19/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: That really happened are you going to pretend like that didn't happen? Hey why are you so pro government anyways, are you some type of shill?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1] 1
#18999749 - 10/19/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said:
Quote:
dr.alkaline said: I often hear people complaining about these companies and how their profits are unfair or their practices are unethical(patent duration/animal testing etc). Big pharma is often synonymous for evil profiteering cooperation in casual conversation. I argue support for these companies, for I think they are powerhouses for advancing science. The massive amount of resources these companies have allow then to run experiments that grant supported academia/government labs can't touch. Its incredible.
Come at me
I dont hate on them for what they do to HELP the world such as creating new medicines not existing in nature.
I hate big PHARM for creating their medicines around trating symptoms and not caring about side effects as that just helps sell more medicine in cocktail form.
If big PHARM did find a cure for cancer in its research it would no doubt choose to NEVER market it. Cured people dont make you money.
Do you think Big Pharma is one company that colludes to decide what they can and cannot make money on collectively. If I'm Phizer and I find a cure for cancer I am not going to ask Merck how much they'll pay me to keep it quiet, which will result in criminal prosecution should I attempt it. I am going to make giant bank on the cure. You have absolutely no fucking idea how competition works, do you?
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dr.alkaline



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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#18999987 - 10/19/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Markets for individual cancers can reach up into the tens of billions annually. So you could imagine what an actual cure for cancer could be worth. No drug company is going to participate in a conspiracy and just sit on that potential profit. Marketing a cure for cancer would catapult a drug companies annual revenue through the roof. Almost everyone gets cancer, marketing a product that almost everyone would use is a big deal. Not to mention the all the scientists that worked on the cure, who would never keep quiet about a career booster like that. If I helped develop a cure, they would literally have to kill me to prevent me from sharing the results, collecting my Nobel, and securing my place in the history books.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: dr.alkaline]
#19000023 - 10/19/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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LOL wrong, they already have a cure many cures for cancer, it's just that the government suppresses it b/c they aren't in it for the money, there in it for the Eugenics, and the cleansing of the society of undesirables. That is the reason why they poison our air with chemtrails, and poison our food with MSG, Aspartame, Fluoride, Genetically Modified Organisms. While they have you in there hospital and Healthcare system, they also feed off our taxes, while they are the people that print the paper money. While they feed off our children, they send our other children in war's for corporations.
They don't care about you, b/c it's all about Eugenics.
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dr.alkaline



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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19000035 - 10/19/13 02:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: LOL wrong, they already have a cure many cures for cancer, it's just that the government suppresses it b/c they aren't in it for the money, there in it for the Eugenics, and the cleansing of the society of undesirables. That is the reason why they poison our air with chemtrails, and poison our food with MSG, Aspartame, Fluoride, Genetically Modified Organisms. While they have you in there hospital and Healthcare system, they also feed off our taxes, while they are the people that print the paper money. While they feed off our children, they send our other children in war's for corporations.
They don't care about you, b/c it's all about Eugenics.
Ha alright im going to call you out for trolling right here.
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Kiya_Star427
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: dr.alkaline]
#19000062 - 10/19/13 02:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok fine, your right the government is good. I'm just joking, the government loves us guys. They don't ship in drugs and give us cancer, and print money out of thin air, you guys are right, fuck freedom and up with Prisons and the Military Industrial Complex, Bring on the NDAA secret arrests and authorization of Military Drones!! ALL RIGHT!! HELL YEA!
Edited by Kiya_Star427 (10/19/13 02:47 PM)
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Kiya_Star427
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19000067 - 10/19/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I love the prison system! LOL Enjoy the New World Order
I loose.
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dr.alkaline



Registered: 12/15/12
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19000084 - 10/19/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I guess I just don't understand the logic. You argue the government suppresses cures for cancer that already exist, but the NIH shells out billions and billions each year in cancer based research grants. Thats a pretty expensive facade.
Edited by dr.alkaline (10/19/13 02:51 PM)
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: dr.alkaline]
#19000113 - 10/19/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hemp cures cancer, certain radio-frequency waves at a certain pitch cures cancer, vitamin B-17 cures cancer, there are many, many cures for cancer..... The government has known all this since the 1960's, but the cancer growth, medication and treatments and eventual death is what profits them the most.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19000211 - 10/19/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You guys don't know that government suppresses knowledge? or something?
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GoldenEye
...



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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19000488 - 10/19/13 04:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just listen to this (confessions of a pharmaceutical representative):
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19000572 - 10/19/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I don't know what country you live in, but in the U.S., pharmaceutical companies don't force people to take their drugs. Doctors don't force people to take drugs, either.
People want a pill to cure every ailment, so the pharmaceutical companies develop them. If people didn't want to find a way to get an erection through chemistry, there wouldn't be so many "male enhancement" drugs.
Blaming the pharmaceutical companies for making drugs is like blaming oil companies for all of the carbon you're spewing into the air with your car.
They don't force them but they manufacture them addictive due to the nature of mans depression. I don't think this is the most humane way to synthesize drugs, looking at Shulgin and his experiments alone makes me question the validity of the pharma industry, they make money and that's what matters. Blame the masses.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: liquidlounge]
#19000975 - 10/19/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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lol they make them purposefully as addictive as possible to get the person hooked like Xnanex, Adderal or Oxycontin or...... ect, ect. What ever the drug may be. They are very very addictive, and very dangerous, the commercials for all the drug commercials say it may make commit aggressive actions, black out or even commit suicide, even Chantix for smoking.
Edited by Kiya_Star427 (10/19/13 06:55 PM)
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19003537 - 10/20/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Yogi1 said:
Quote:
dr.alkaline said: I often hear people complaining about these companies and how their profits are unfair or their practices are unethical(patent duration/animal testing etc). Big pharma is often synonymous for evil profiteering cooperation in casual conversation. I argue support for these companies, for I think they are powerhouses for advancing science. The massive amount of resources these companies have allow then to run experiments that grant supported academia/government labs can't touch. Its incredible.
Come at me
I dont hate on them for what they do to HELP the world such as creating new medicines not existing in nature.
I hate big PHARM for creating their medicines around trating symptoms and not caring about side effects as that just helps sell more medicine in cocktail form.
If big PHARM did find a cure for cancer in its research it would no doubt choose to NEVER market it. Cured people dont make you money.
Do you think Big Pharma is one company that colludes to decide what they can and cannot make money on collectively. If I'm Phizer and I find a cure for cancer I am not going to ask Merck how much they'll pay me to keep it quiet, which will result in criminal prosecution should I attempt it. I am going to make giant bank on the cure. You have absolutely no fucking idea how competition works, do you?
Pfizer /troll
There is very little competition...
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19003752 - 10/20/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Yogi1 said:
Quote:
dr.alkaline said: I often hear people complaining about these companies and how their profits are unfair or their practices are unethical(patent duration/animal testing etc). Big pharma is often synonymous for evil profiteering cooperation in casual conversation. I argue support for these companies, for I think they are powerhouses for advancing science. The massive amount of resources these companies have allow then to run experiments that grant supported academia/government labs can't touch. Its incredible.
Come at me
I dont hate on them for what they do to HELP the world such as creating new medicines not existing in nature.
I hate big PHARM for creating their medicines around trating symptoms and not caring about side effects as that just helps sell more medicine in cocktail form.
If big PHARM did find a cure for cancer in its research it would no doubt choose to NEVER market it. Cured people dont make you money.
Do you think Big Pharma is one company that colludes to decide what they can and cannot make money on collectively. If I'm Phizer and I find a cure for cancer I am not going to ask Merck how much they'll pay me to keep it quiet, which will result in criminal prosecution should I attempt it. I am going to make giant bank on the cure. You have absolutely no fucking idea how competition works, do you?
Pfizer /troll
There is very little competition...
Liar http://dir.yahoo.com/business_and_economy/business_to_business/health_care/pharmaceuticals/?b=20
Quote:
Merck & Co. (NYSE:MRK) Discovers, develops, manufactures, and markets a broad range of products to improve human and animal health. www.merck.com Pfizer (NYSE:PFE) Research-based global health care company. www.pfizer.com Novartis (NYSE:NVS) Develops products in the areas of pharmaceuticals, generics, consumer health, eyecare products and medicines, and animal health. www.novartis.com GlaxoSmithKline (NYSE:GSK) Pharmaceutical company developing anti-infective, central nervous system, respiratory, and gastrointestinal/metabolic therapeutics. www.gsk.com Eli Lilly and Company (NYSE:LLY) Global research-based pharmaceutical corporation. www.lilly.com Abbott Laboratories (NYSE:ABT) Discovers and develops products and services that span the continuum of care, from prevention and diagnosis to treatment and cure. www.abbott.com Johnson & Johnson (NYSE:JNJ) Manufacturer of health care products and provider of related services for the consumer, pharmaceutical, and medical devices and diagnostics markets. www.jnj.com Roche Pharmaceutical healthcare group with divisions in pharmaceuticals, diagnostics, and consumer health. www.roche.com AstraZeneca (NYSE:AZN) International biosciences company engaged in the research, development, manufacture, and marketing of ethical pharmaceuticals, agricultural and specialty chemicals products, and the supply of healthcare services. www.astrazeneca.com Bristol-Myers Squibb (NYSE:BMY) Pharmaceutical and related health care products company whose mission is to extend and enhance human life. www.bms.com Wyeth (NYSE:WYE) Engaged in the discovery and development of products across a range of therapeutic areas. Formerly known as American Home Products (AHP). www.wyeth.com Akzo Nobel Serves customers throughout the world with healthcare products, coatings, and chemicals. www.akzonobel.com Genentech (NYSE:DNA) Discovers, develops, manufactures, and commercializes biotherapeutics for significant unmet medical needs. www.gene.com Boehringer Ingelheim Manufactures and markets pharmaceuticals, prescription medicines, and consumer health care products along with products for the industrial and animal health markets. www.boehringer-ingelheim.com Sanofi-Aventis (NYSE:SNY) Sanofi-Aventis engages in the research, development, manufacture, and marketing of pharmaceuticals and human vaccines worldwide. www.sanofi-aventis.com Allergan (NYSE:AGN) Develops and commercializes products for the eye care, neuromodulator, skin care, and other specialty markets including Botox, Alphagan, and Refresh. www.allergan.com Schering-Plough (NYSE:SGP) Discovers, develops, manufactures, and markets new therapies and treatment programs that can improve health and extend lives. www.schering-plough.com Gilead Sciences (Nasdaq:GILD) Discovers, develops, and commercializes proprietary therapeutics for viral diseases. www.gilead.com Quintiles Transnational Provides professional services, information, and partnering solutions to the pharmaceutical, biotechnology, and healthcare industries. www.quintiles.com AstraZeneca United States www.astrazeneca-us.com
MedImmune Develops and markets products in areas such as infectious disease, immunology, and cancer. www.medimmune.com H. Lundbeck A/S Develops pharmaceuticals for psychiatric and neurological disorders. www.lundbeck.com Chiron Corporation Aims to prevent and treat diseases and improve peoples' lives worldwide. www.chiron.com Elan (NYSE:ELN) Biopharmaceutical company focused on the discovery, development, and marketing of products in neurology, pain management, and autoimmune disease. www.elan.com Celgene (Nasdaq:CELG) Engaged in the discovery, development, and commercialization of small molecules for cancer and immunological diseases. www.celgene.com Cephalon (Nasdaq:CEPH) Develops and markets products to treat and manage neurological disorders, sleep disorders, cancer, pain, and addiction. www.cephalon.com Shire Pharmaceuticals Group plc (2) (Nasdaq:SHPGY) dir.yahoo.com/.../Pharmaceuticals/Shire_Pharmaceuticals_Group_plc Schering Specializes in fertility control and hormone therapy, diagnostics and radiopharmaceuticals, dermatology, and specialized therapeutics for severe diseases. www.schering.de Amylin Pharmaceuticals (Nasdaq:AMLN) Biopharmaceutical company committed to improving lives through the discovery, development, and commercialization of innovative medicines. www.amylin.com Servier Makers of drugs for use treating cardiology, diabetes, venous disease, depression, and menopause. www.servier.com Nycomed Multinational pharmaceutical company that produces healthcare products for treatment, relief, and prevention of diseases. www.nycomed.com Forest Laboratories (NYSE:FRX) Develops, manufactures, and sells both branded and generic forms of ethical prescription/non-prescription pharmaceutical products. www.frx.com Novo (NYSE:NVO) Holding company for a group of companies that manufacture and market pharmaceutical products and services. www.novo.dk Teva Pharmaceutical Industries@ (Nasdaq:TEVA) dir.yahoo.com/.../Health_Care/Pharmaceuticals Sanofi-Aventis US Sanofi-Aventis develops products in the therapeutic areas of cardiovascular disease, thrombosis, oncology, diabetes, central nervous system, internal medicine, and vaccines. www.sanofi-aventis.us Eisai Developing drugs in areas including immunology, endocrinology, gasterenterology, neurology, cardiology, pulmonology, and oncology. www.eisai.com Organon Pharmaceutical company which manufactures prescription-only drugs, principally hormone preparations. www.organon.com Biogen Idec (Nasdaq:BIIB) Principally engaged in discovering and developing drugs for novel therapies primarily in the areas of oncology, neurology, and immunology. www.biogen.com Hoffmann-La Roche Prescription drug unit of the Roche Group in the U.S. www.rocheusa.com Endo Pharmaceuticals (Nasdaq:ENDP) Researches, develops, and markets prescription pharmaceuticals used primarily to treat and manage pain. www.endo.com
Cipla Ltd (1) dir.yahoo.com/.../Pharmaceuticals/Cipla_Ltd Millennium Pharmaceuticals (Nasdaq:MLNM) Genomics-driven healthcare company. www.mlnm.com Sepracor Inc. (Nasdaq:SEPR) Research-based company developing and commercializing pharmaceutical products. www.sepracor.com Vertex Pharmaceuticals (Nasdaq:VRTX) Drug discovery and development company that has pioneered the application of structure-based rational drug design. www.vpharm.com Institute for OneWorld Health Nonprofit pharmaceutical company developing new medicines for people afflicted with infectious diseases in the developing world. www.oneworldhealth.org King Pharmaceuticals (1) (NYSE:KG) dir.yahoo.com/.../Pharmaceuticals/King_Pharmaceuticals Professional Compounding Centers of America, Inc. Supplies pharmacists with the necessary tools, i.e., chemicals, devices, training, to compound medications for patients with unique needs. www.pccarx.com Biovail Pharmaceuticals (NYSE:BVF) Engaged in the formulation, clinical testing, registration, manufacture, sale, and promotion of pharmaceutical products utilizing advanced drug delivery technologies. www.biovail.com Centocor Specializes in monoclonal antibody technology focusing on the management of cardiovascular diseases, immunologic disorders, and cancer. www.centocor.com Alkermes (Nasdaq:ALKS) Specializes in the development of controlled, sustained-release injectable drugs. www.alkermes.com Medicis Pharmaceutical Corporation (NYSE:MRX) Prescription and over-the-counter dermatology pharmaceuticals. www.medicis.com West Pharmaceutical Services Global pharmaceutical technology company that applies proprietary materials science, formulation research, and manufacturing innovation to advance the quality, therapeutic value, development speed, and rapid market availability of pharmaceuticals, biologics, vaccines and consumer healthcare products. www.westpharma.com Boehringer Ingelheim U.S. Dedicated to the discovery, development, and manufacture of innovative human and animal health care products in the United States. us.boehringer-ingelheim.com XOMA Developer of products for the treatment of primary infections, infectious complications, and immunologic disorders. www.xoma.com Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (1) dir.yahoo.com/.../Pharmaceuticals/Regeneron_Pharmaceuticals__Inc_ Onyx Pharmaceuticals (1) dir.yahoo.com/.../Pharmaceuticals/Onyx_Pharmaceuticals ALZA Utilizing advanced drug delivery systems to improve the medical and economic value of drug therapies. www.alza.com Janssen Pharmaceuticals Pharmaceutical company with various products for mental health headquartered in New Jersey. Janssen markets prescription medications for the treatment of schizophrenia and bipolar mania. www.janssen.com Nabi Pharmaceuticals Focuses on the development and commercialization of products that prevent and treat infectious and autoimmune diseases. www.nabi.com Chattem (Nasdaq:CHTT) Manufactures and markets a variety of branded consumer products including over-the-counter healthcare, toiletry, and skin care items. www.chattem.com
That is only 3 of the 9 pages at the link. Keeping making shit up.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19003764 - 10/20/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not only is there fierce competition to produce better products, there is also fierce competition for qualified researchers to develop those products. As a result, these companies have to pay top dollar for top researchers to do the work.
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starfire_xes
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19005406 - 10/20/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said:
I hate big PHARM for creating their medicines around trating symptoms and not caring about side effects as that just helps sell more medicine in cocktail form.
If big PHARM did find a cure for cancer in its research it would no doubt choose to NEVER market it. Cured people dont make you money.
That is about a big a pile of Horse-Poop as I have ever read. 'Big Pharm' absolutely wants to minimize side effects. Example: treatment for Hepatitis C virus, current drugs have severe side effects. There is a rush to find drugs that don't require the use of Interferon because of the debilitating side effects. There are a bunch of companies with new Anti-virals for HCV, and the one that gets to market with the fewest side effects wins the big money. I know, I am going to be getting prescribed one of the new ones, but I still have to use interferon because I have cirrohsis.
And if they find a cure--the first company that finds a cure for HCV, or AIDS, etc, is going to be making some big bank. It is not in their interest to NOT develop a cure BECAUSE THERE IS TOO MUCH COMPETITION.
Yes, the drugs are really expensive when they first come out. Why? Because they have to recover their research costs.
A similar idea with the same specious reasoning as yours is 'Companies don't care if they poison you or harm you with their product--they are just in for the buck' NOT TRUE. They want to minimize harm/bad effects and maximize safety to protect them from the shysters.
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Yogi1
Squatchin

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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: starfire_xes]
#19005807 - 10/20/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why try to min side effects? Makes no financial sense
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1] 1
#19005835 - 10/20/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It makes great financial sense. If your drug for herpes has side effects, but your competition's drug for herpes doesn't, they're going to make your drug obsolete.
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starfire_xes
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19006027 - 10/20/13 09:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: Why try to min side effects? Makes no financial sense
Didn't you read the example I provided? Doctors are demanding HCV drugs that are interferon free, to avoid the side effects, which, depending on the extent of liver disease, can cause death. There are 4 or 5 big Pharms competing for the market share--it is worth billions. The effective ones will take the market--the losers will write off a huge financial loss for the development. And what does 'Big Pharm' gain from side effects? Being able to sell a cheap generic that they make no money on? Who even says the drugs side effects will need a drug that that company makes?
There is a lot of competetion in the pharm industry. Can you imagine the company that makes an AIDS cure that is safe and almost 100% effective? they are going to make obsolete every AIDS drug out there.
No, you point is like saying 'Car companies make cars with bad gas mileage so they can sell gas' LOL.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: starfire_xes]
#19006304 - 10/20/13 10:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I guess you've got me
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Kiya_Star427
Live FREE or be a SLAVE!


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19007443 - 10/21/13 08:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also AID's is an bio-engineered disease that is produced in a laboratory by the man Robert Gallo.
-Government documents provided in video
They use AID's as a bio-weapon, just as they did with Syphilis with the Tuskegee Experiments which Bill Clinton had to Apologize for, they had infected thousands of black men with Syphilis with out telling to infect the rest of the populations them from the 50's all the way up to the late 70's.
They use Aid's as a Bio-weapon manufactured by the Military Industrail Complex as WMD's for culling of Earth's population. Proof??? Here is a newsclip MSLSD admitting that Bayer and Baxter Pharmaceuticals purposely infected thousands of little children with AID's world wide, after knowingly infecting vaccines with the AIDS virus. In most of the world like in Africa, and Mexico vaccines are something people want to stay away from b/c most the times those vaccines are experimental bio-weapons.
Yea Big Pharma is Great, if you hate human life and hate freedom and liberty, and true healing of the Earth through natural remedy's, not chemicals made in a lab to destroy your kidney and liver and eventually drain you of your money and eventually kill you.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19007508 - 10/21/13 08:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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More wacky conspiracy theories, eh? You really should stick to the conspiracy forum.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19007978 - 10/21/13 11:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lol you think Bill Clinton apologizing about the government infecting thousands of black men, (and without telling them what they injecting them with so they can infect the rest of the community's) with syphilis is Conspiracy?
You sure do make a great government slave! Everything is a conspiracy if it involves the government and illegal activity with you or worse population control and eugenics
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427] 1
#19008080 - 10/21/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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First, it wasn't thousands. It was 600. Second, the U.S. didn't infect them. They were already infected, and they were simply not treated. Third, the Tuskeegee study is completely unrelated to AIDS and your crazy theory that it was created to be used as a bio weapon.
Finally, the Tuskeegee study was, by definition, a conspiracy. No one disputes that.
Unless/until you provide ACTUAL EVIDENCE that AIDS was created as a bio weapon IN ANOTHER THREAD IN THE APPROPRIATE FORUM, such assertions by you will be ignored.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19008862 - 10/21/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Really so they didn't infect people with syphilis in the form of shots? and purposely didn't tell them, it was a conspiracy even though Clinton came out and apologized for it
An Apology 65 Years Late SUMMARY Beginning in 1932, the federal government sponsored a study to examine the impact of syphilis involving black men. The experiment went on until 1972 without the test subjects' knowledge, but no President had apologized to the volunteers and their families until President Clinton did so. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/jan-june97/tuskegee_5-16a.html
Also the Guatemalans also decided to sue around the same time the black people of America did, for purposely giving them syphilis at the same time of the Tuskegee Experiments http://www.naturalnews.com/031668_medical_experiments_Guatamala.html
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19008885 - 10/21/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Actual evidence, is that the government lied about the creation of AID's, no one believes any of the monkey bullshit they learned in school. Your just going to have to stop playing lawyer for the government man, everyone know they are fucking the most disgusting parasitic Satanic beings on the universe that hate freedom and hate human ingenuity.
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Icelander
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19008924 - 10/21/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Really so they didn't infect people with syphilis in the form of shots? and purposely didn't tell them, it was a conspiracy even though Clinton came out and apologized for it
Are you fucking nuts? He acknowledged that already. What does that have to do with AIDS? Stay on topic if at all possible.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19008928 - 10/21/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: Actual evidence, is that the government lied about the creation of AID's, no one believes any of the monkey bullshit they learned in school. Your just going to have to stop playing lawyer for the government man, everyone know they are fucking the most disgusting parasitic Satanic beings on the universe that hate freedom and hate human ingenuity.
What actual evidence? Where? Show it or stfu.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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starfire_xes
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19010928 - 10/21/13 09:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey, I know a place that is having a sale on Tin-Foil hats.
AIDS is bioengineered? The first known case of AIDS was a sailor from England that died in 1959. Was the government bio-engineering AIDS back then?
The reason I know this little fact is that they exhumed his body and tested the remains after AIDS became known. I did a paper in University on AIDS and its history, and that was the first case I found. Since then other cases have become apparent on the African continent, some estimate it goes back at least 150 years.
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EddYerb
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great *DELETED* [Re: dr.alkaline]
#19012305 - 10/22/13 06:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by EddYerbReason for deletion: Want to remove
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: EddYerb]
#19012309 - 10/22/13 06:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Capitalism and profit motive are the only reasons we have the breakthroughs that we have in pharmaceuticals. Without a profit motive, no one would invest the money it takes to develop these drugs. Government funded research can't replace private research. Government funding only gives researchers an incentive to keep researching forever without actually developing anything.
Only by incentivizing the successful development of effective drugs can progress be made in that field. The best incentive we have is profit motive.
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EddYerb
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great *DELETED* [Re: Enlil]
#19012318 - 10/22/13 06:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by EddYerbReason for deletion: Want to remove
Edited by EddYerb (10/22/13 06:28 AM)
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: EddYerb] 1
#19012356 - 10/22/13 07:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've never heard of a government agency that is more efficient or productive than a private counterpart, but I suppose there is a rare exception to any rule.
Having said that, Tesla was from a different time...He didn't need to have $200,000 worth of education in order to do his research. He was building from basics. Unfortunately (or fortunately) we have come to a point where one lifetime isn't enough to develop new technologies. This is why we need education to allow scientists to start where other scientists have left off. It takes a lot of money to get that kind of training...and a lot of time.
On top of that, humans are generally self-interested creatures. The brightest of the species have a lot more options when it comes to where they want to focus their studies. Most will follow the money. Certainly, there is the occasional genius who has a passion for a particular field and will work in it regardless of how little it pays. Most will not, however, and the more minds working on a problem, the more likely it is to be solved.
In today's world, one can choose to go into business and make his/her first million before age 25, or one can go into research and, at age 25, be just getting out of school with a quarter of a million dollar debt. Given those two options, it's no surprise that we have fewer researchers than MBAs. Without the incentives currently being paid by private industries, we'd have even fewer researchers.
P.S. Even Tesla has a profit motive. After all, he quit working with Edison after Edison allegedly refused to pay Tesla $50k for his work on the electric motor.
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Edited by Enlil (10/22/13 07:07 AM)
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EddYerb
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great *DELETED* [Re: Enlil]
#19012367 - 10/22/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by EddYerbReason for deletion: Want to remove
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: EddYerb]
#19012397 - 10/22/13 07:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think you're mostly talking about undergrad. I paid a total of $1700 for my undergrad in the U.S. Once you get into masters and PhD programs, the costs go up significantly...even in the Netherlands.
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EddYerb
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19012407 - 10/22/13 07:33 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I dunno, a few of my mates are looking into masters there and I think they mentioned 1500 Euros. Just googled PHDs and apparently they normally pay for the PHD! http://www.eurogates.nl/phd-programmes-in-netherlands/
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: starfire_xes]
#19012428 - 10/22/13 07:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: Hey, I know a place that is having a sale on Tin-Foil hats.
AIDS is bioengineered? The first known case of AIDS was a sailor from England that died in 1959. Was the government bio-engineering AIDS back then?
The reason I know this little fact is that they exhumed his body and tested the remains after AIDS became known. I did a paper in University on AIDS and its history, and that was the first case I found. Since then other cases have become apparent on the African continent, some estimate it goes back at least 150 years.
Ok you are right the government doesn't create bio-weapons. The government wouldn't create HIV/AIDS, and they didn't go around jabbing gay people in night clubs with AID's so they would spread it around.
http://people.tribe.net/chaz/blog/0fd57349-9453-430a-9e26-d96fff41a83d -AIDS proved to be by Man and injected in Africans Wed, May 14, 2008 - 7:21 PM
Please man it's not a fucking tin foil wearing hat issue, its more like they are putting chemicals in our food and even in the plastics with BPA estrogen mimicking hormones which is the opposite of giving women and baby's testosterone, they know that gives women breast cancer.
They are doing this purposefully, they know genetically modified organisms cause cancer and eventual sterility in future generations.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19012435 - 10/22/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There are a lot of Bio-weapons our government has been developing for a very, very long time. You may think that it's funny, but it's not our government was hi-jacked by the Military Industrial Complex faction of the New World Order
Here is President Dwight D Eisenhower blowing the whistle on this shit, please watch this is important.
Here is John F Kennedy Exposing the Secret Society's and New World Order
Ron Paul Exposes the Secret Society's New World Order
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19012463 - 10/22/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: The government wouldn't create HIV/AIDS, and they didn't go around jabbing gay people in night clubs with AID's so they would spread it around.
I think this might be the first accurate thing you've posted on this site.
P.S. You can keep posting that Kennedy speech over and over again, but it will always be about the communist party...not the illuminati.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19012571 - 10/22/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The communists are the Illuminati and they are for a One World collectivized system of government. It's obvious and well documented the the people that created the Federal Reserve like the Rockefellers Rothschild's, Warburg, Morgan, and other Illuminati elite familys. And they do do bizarre rituals just as explained by JFK "and the secret proceedings..."
For example here is David Gergen (former presidential adviser to Gerald Ford, Clinton..) being interviewed on the Bohemian Grove and the Cremation of Care Rituals reformed in the woods of Bohemia in Southern California.
Edited by Kiya_Star427 (10/22/13 08:39 AM)
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EddYerb
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19012600 - 10/22/13 08:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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A one world government would be a good thing, as long as it was made up of elected representatives from each continent/ region. And the Illuminati and communist groups are probably not linked.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19012615 - 10/22/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alex Jones 
Dude, can you please keep this conspiracy nutter bullshit in the conspiracy forum? This forum is for rational people to discuss issues using reason and supported argument. The mods should have banned you from this forum days ago, but apparently, they are not interested in doing their jobs.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: EddYerb]
#19012659 - 10/22/13 09:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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One world government is no government for the people... Federal government already sucks worse than state...
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Eddeee
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19012693 - 10/22/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: But he's absolutely wrong, parents are forced into giving children Prescription Big Pharma pills because of school for example like adderal. If a teacher diagnosis a little child, he/she is then forced to take drugs with the parents consent, he is drugged at home and he is drugged at school forcibly during lunch time.
If you are caught not giving the medication, guess who comes and visits you. The CPS and we all know about the CPS, how many times have they gotten caught drugging BABY's forcibly, you see this is all being done under Eugenics just like Obamacare, this is all for the profits for Big Pharma aka the government.
Please provide your evidence that teachers are empowered to diagnose students and forcibly medicate them. Thank you in advance.
I suspect you're making all of this shit up based on the fact that your parents tried to get you the medical attention that you needed. If you got on the proper meds, you might actually be able to see how crazy your theories are.
Hi enlil Ok I was forced to take drugs (retalin and some other drug which I forgot the name of) from age 6 to age 13, I was Dx'ed by a dr for ADD not a teacher. But the school did force me to take the drugs. They only stopped giving me the drugs when they caught me trading my pills for weed, boy that started some shit.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: EddYerb]
#19012705 - 10/22/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
EddYerb said: A one world government would be a good thing, as long as it was made up of elected representatives from each continent/ region. And the Illuminati and communist groups are probably not linked.
Here is a speech given in the 50's about the spread of Communism into America. Watch this it's Amazing, by John Welch
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19012790 - 10/22/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said:
Quote:
EddYerb said: A one world government would be a good thing, as long as it was made up of elected representatives from each continent/ region. And the Illuminati and communist groups are probably not linked.
Here is a speech given in the 50's about the spread of Communism into America. Watch this it's Amazing, by John Welch
Pharmacy, pharmacy, pharmunism!!
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Eddeee]
#19014159 - 10/22/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eddeee said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: But he's absolutely wrong, parents are forced into giving children Prescription Big Pharma pills because of school for example like adderal. If a teacher diagnosis a little child, he/she is then forced to take drugs with the parents consent, he is drugged at home and he is drugged at school forcibly during lunch time.
If you are caught not giving the medication, guess who comes and visits you. The CPS and we all know about the CPS, how many times have they gotten caught drugging BABY's forcibly, you see this is all being done under Eugenics just like Obamacare, this is all for the profits for Big Pharma aka the government.
Please provide your evidence that teachers are empowered to diagnose students and forcibly medicate them. Thank you in advance.
I suspect you're making all of this shit up based on the fact that your parents tried to get you the medical attention that you needed. If you got on the proper meds, you might actually be able to see how crazy your theories are.
Hi enlil Ok I was forced to take drugs (retalin and some other drug which I forgot the name of) from age 6 to age 13, I was Dx'ed by a dr for ADD not a teacher. But the school did force me to take the drugs. They only stopped giving me the drugs when they caught me trading my pills for weed, boy that started some shit.
You weren't forced to go to that school or any other. Your parents chose that for you. See that word there? "Chose". It's a biggee. But your argument about what schools do is utterly irrelevant to doctors or pharmaceutical companies forcing anything on you.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19018911 - 10/23/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bullshit.
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19019940 - 10/23/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's not bullshit at all. You could have been home schooled or gone to a school that didn't "force" you to take drugs or found a doctor to tell them to fuck off and that the drugs were bad for you. Your parents chose to acquiesce.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19020030 - 10/23/13 03:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Might have been easy for your upper class ass to switch to private schooling or move school districts on the dime, but most people kind of have to deal with it.
Not to mention the fact that kids parents make all these choices and kids really have no say.
The least empathy and understanding typically comes from privilage and lack of experience in said issues.
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19020128 - 10/23/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: Might have been easy for your upper class ass to switch to private schooling or move school districts on the dime, but most people kind of have to deal with it.
I was firmly middle class growing up. Did you see the part about home schooling or getting a doctor to say the drugs are bad for you? Quote:
Not to mention the fact that kids parents make all these choices and kids really have no say.
As it should beQuote:
The least empathy and understanding typically comes from privilage and lack of experience in said issues.
I was not a child of privilege and know quite a few kids who are on meds and are benefiting from them. I do not know of any that were compelled by the school district to do so.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19020222 - 10/23/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The 80s and 90s were full of school encouragement to het kids on add medicines and prozac.
This is a fact that siblings can attest to as well as family friends. These people are probably not disinformation agents...
As for home schooling, its completely impractical period. Especially in higher grades.
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psyconaught
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19020253 - 10/23/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
As for home schooling, its completely impractical period. Especially in higher grades.
not its not. You get a much better education being home schooled. Fuck i was stoned and slept through high school and i graduated with a 4.0. The public school system is a joke
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: psyconaught]
#19020576 - 10/23/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
As for home schooling, its completely impractical period. Especially in higher grades.
not its not. You get a much better education being home schooled. Fuck i was stoned and slept through high school and i graduated with a 4.0. The public school system is a joke
The school system sucking Dick doesn't mean you have a parent who is qualified to teach, or be available, or have the money to pay private teachers.
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19020611 - 10/23/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: The 80s and 90s were full of school encouragement to het kids on add medicines and prozac.
Encouragement is not compulsion. Obviously recent public school. This doesn't go to support his allegation that the school forced him, does it? Quote:
This is a fact that siblings can attest to as well as family friends. These people are probably not disinformation agents...
As the step parent of a 28 year old and a 23 year old on meds I am fully aware of that. They were both fucked without them.Quote:
As for home schooling, its completely impractical period. Especially in higher grades.
More and more people are doing it to get away from the educational failure that is most public education. How about getting a doctor's order that it is harmful?
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19020638 - 10/23/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Having kids is a choice, though. It's not like a stork just randomly drops them off. If someone isn't in a position to do it right, they shouldn't do it at all.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19020686 - 10/23/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Shit happens. I'm into my mid 20s but that doesn't mean I couldn't have had a condom fail with a fertile chick. The more conservative posters really seem to lack understanding for, shoulda.
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psyconaught
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19020703 - 10/23/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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and theres such thing as plan b and abortion
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19020779 - 10/23/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: Shit happens. I'm into my mid 20s but that doesn't mean I couldn't have had a condom fail with a fertile chick. The more conservative posters really seem to lack understanding for, shoulda.
There's always abstinence.
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psyconaught
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19020787 - 10/23/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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if your going to stick your penis inside someone (or have them stick their penis inside of you) you should be willing to accept possible consequences, whether having a kid or having backup in case either party becomes pregnant. Either plan B or abortion
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: psyconaught]
#19020846 - 10/23/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's why I got snipped at age 24.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19020885 - 10/23/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That's why I got snipped at age 24.
Could have knocked a chick up at 15 with a broken condom. Right now you would be judging that person...
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19020929 - 10/23/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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We have abortion in this country. Parenthood, for women, is 100% by choice. Men can also always get snipped. 15 year-olds should not be fucking.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19020962 - 10/23/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Shoulda woulda. Might as well kill all morons, and young people are morons.
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021021 - 10/23/13 06:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: Shoulda woulda. Might as well kill all morons, and young people are morons. 
What does this have to do with the fact that parenthood is a choice in this country?
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021030 - 10/23/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: That's why I got snipped at age 24.
Could have knocked a chick up at 15 with a broken condom. Right now you would be judging that person...
Yup...I would be thinking that he/she was one stupid 15 year old.
Similarly, if a 15 year old shoots someone, I'd judge them, too...
People are responsible for their actions, and their actions say a lot about their character.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19021130 - 10/23/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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How about a 10 year old shooting and murdering someone, or an 8 year old or a 6 year old.
My point is that you are not omniscient, as such you shouldn't judge people. Context is somoewhat important...
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021149 - 10/23/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Everybody judges everybody. What the fuck are you talking about?
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021169 - 10/23/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't need to be omniscient to recognize that I have some knowledge. A 6 year old can't commit murder, so that's just nonsense.
A 15 year old is plenty old enough to understand that he shouldn't be having sex, and that there are consequences if he chooses to ignore that fact. Ignoring those consequences is what makes him stupid.
"shit happens" is the mantra of all of the victims in the world. It's not their fault...shit happens. The world, or god, or society, or dumb luck is to blame for all the "shit" that "happens."
Getting pregnant or getting someone pregnant doesn't just happen. It requires someone to actively make it happen. So a 15 year old who gets a woman pregnant is either stupid for willfully ignoring the risks or stupid because he didn't know the risks...either way, he's stupid.
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Yogi1
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19021180 - 10/23/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Talking about judging people without any real understanding of their situation. Something you're excellent at.
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psyconaught
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021197 - 10/23/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: Talking about judging people without any real understanding of their situation. Something you're excellent at.
besides rape what situation can you give where a 15 year old getting pregnant/getting someone else pregnant is not completely their responsibility?
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021202 - 10/23/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Their "situation?" What situation could possibly make it less stupid to be having sex at 15 when you've no way to support a child? Maybe the kid needs to have sex for medical reasons?
I don't need to know someone's situation to judge them. I only need the relevant facts. Talking about someone's "situation" sounds an awful lot like talking about his/her excuses for his/her piss poor behavior.
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021208 - 10/23/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: Talking about judging people without any real understanding of their situation. Something you're excellent at.
I judge behavior, which is all we can ever know about another person.
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Yogi1
Squatchin

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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19021237 - 10/23/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: A 6 year old can't commit murder, so that's just nonsense.
You're telling me that between the 6 and 15 year olds you know exactly their maturity level, undiagnosed or diagnosed psychology, situation etc...
You really must be special.
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Yogi1
Squatchin

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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19021273 - 10/23/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That really only serves my point. Some people throw up till they're dying. If we were 50 years back you might be judging their behavior as weak etc but its now a recognized compulsion and mental disorder on the level of drug addiction.
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021388 - 10/23/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: That really only serves my point. Some people throw up till they're dying. If we were 50 years back you might be judging their behavior as weak etc but its now a recognized compulsion and mental disorder on the level of drug addiction.
What does that have to do with your point? They are being judged to be mentally ill instead of just weak. And drug addicts are not mentally ill. They are just weak.
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Yogi1
Squatchin

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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19021422 - 10/23/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Yogi1 said: That really only serves my point. Some people throw up till they're dying. If we were 50 years back you might be judging their behavior as weak etc but its now a recognized compulsion and mental disorder on the level of drug addiction.
What does that have to do with your point? They are being judged to be mentally ill instead of just weak. And drug addicts are not mentally ill. They are just weak.
yeah most disorders I dont have are weakness, like drug addiction, bi polar, depression, manic disorder, codependence...
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021500 - 10/23/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: Might have been easy for your upper class ass to switch to private schooling or move school districts on the dime, but most people kind of have to deal with it.
Why would anyone want to switch to private schooling? After all, the Public School System, administered by local government beaurocrats, staffed with indoctrinated union teachers, are Icons of High-Level Education and Innovation, under the guidance of the Federal Department of Education.
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021523 - 10/23/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Yogi1 said: That really only serves my point. Some people throw up till they're dying. If we were 50 years back you might be judging their behavior as weak etc but its now a recognized compulsion and mental disorder on the level of drug addiction.
What does that have to do with your point? They are being judged to be mentally ill instead of just weak. And drug addicts are not mentally ill. They are just weak.
yeah most disorders I dont have are weakness, like drug addiction, bi polar, depression, manic disorder, codependence... 
I only mentioned one of those. Stop with the straw men. Although I would throw in co-dependence as a nonsense illness as well.
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Yogi1
Squatchin

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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19021546 - 10/23/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Yogi1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Yogi1 said: That really only serves my point. Some people throw up till they're dying. If we were 50 years back you might be judging their behavior as weak etc but its now a recognized compulsion and mental disorder on the level of drug addiction.
What does that have to do with your point? They are being judged to be mentally ill instead of just weak. And drug addicts are not mentally ill. They are just weak.
yeah most disorders I dont have are weakness, like drug addiction, bi polar, depression, manic disorder, codependence... 
I only mentioned one of those. Stop with the straw men. Although I would throw in co-dependence as a nonsense illness as well.
You can call straw man if you want but it is exactly your argument...
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19021617 - 10/23/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi polar, depression, manic disorder
I do not include those in my list of psychobabble bullshit
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19021645 - 10/23/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
bi polar, depression, manic disorder
I do not include those in my list of psychobabble bullshit
I'm thinking you should probably include Butthurt Disorder in the list.
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psyconaught
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19021662 - 10/23/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
bi polar, depression, manic disorder
I do not include those in my list of psychobabble bullshit
some (most) mental disorders are bullshit. However there are cases where they are. For instance in (rare) cases of depression there are actually measurable deficiencies of certain neurotransmitters
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Yogi1
Squatchin

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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: psyconaught]
#19021686 - 10/23/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I can't believe any of you. In your own favorite go to, post evidence from a credible source.
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starfire_xes
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1] 1
#19021700 - 10/23/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, one thing that has certainly been proven is that Liberalism is a mental disorder.
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Yogi1
Squatchin

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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: starfire_xes]
#19021719 - 10/23/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: Well, one thing that has certainly been proven is that Liberalism is a mental disorder.
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dr.alkaline



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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19022024 - 10/23/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I regret making this thread
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Yogi1]
#19022459 - 10/23/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: A 6 year old can't commit murder, so that's just nonsense.
You're telling me that between the 6 and 15 year olds you know exactly their maturity level, undiagnosed or diagnosed psychology, situation etc...
You really must be special.
Nope. I'm telling you that none of that is relevant to my determination of whether or not they're stupid for getting someone pregnant.
I don't care how mature they are...that's just an excuse.
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19075903 - 11/02/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Biggest. facepalm. ever.
Like all American oligopolies, the pharmaceutical industrial complex has it's hands up DC's ass. It costs millions to release a new drug, raising consumer prices, which they don't mind since the fees and regulations act as barriers to keep competitors out of the market. They make higher profits because they have little or no competition, allowing them to charge more, and the FDA gets a nice payment in exchange.
They push unnecessary and often harmful treatments, making them mandatory when possible. (Vaccines, anti-depressants, ADD meds, etc.)
They propagandize doctors, turning them into low life drug dealers who now know nothing about nutrition and healthy living. All they do is write prescriptions in exchange for kick backs.
They also lobby to keep marijuana illegal and that alone is enough to hate them.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19075967 - 11/02/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The FDA isn't paid by pharmaceutical companies. It is a federally funded agency.
You're welcome to lobby to legalize marijuana. Why are you so against freedom of speech?
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19076015 - 11/02/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The FDA isn't paid by pharmaceutical companies. It is a federally funded agency.
You're welcome to lobby to legalize marijuana. Why are you so against freedom of speech?
The FDA is federally funded. Pharmaceutical companies pay the federal government. So the money is filtered through the government first. Doesn't really change the situation much except that more people are being paid off.
Rofl. Lobbying is freedom of speech. I guess you don't know how lobbying works.
How am I welcome to legalize marijuana?
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076068 - 11/02/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The pharma companies pay the government in taxes, sure, along with every other corporation in the nation. It's a bit of a stretch to call that the "FDA get[ting]a payment in exchange."
Clearly YOU don't know how lobbying works. Lobbying is simply the process by which laws are advocated for or against by groups who send a brief discussing the impact of the proposed legislation...or they discuss it in person.
I never said you could legalize marijuana. I said you're free to lobby for it. Write a brief and send it to your congressman...or meet him and advocate in person. Or get a petition of live signatures of taxpayers and submit that to your congressman and/or senator.
Marijuana was made illegal because the people wanted it illegal. It has remained illegal for that same reason. Public opinion is shifting, and legalization or criminalization might be on the horizon. Change on a national level is always slow, however.
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19076155 - 11/02/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You're right, you did say I could lobby.
Sorry man, but I think you're being a bit naive. Politics is all about making deals. Endorsements, campaign contributions, threats, etc, are all used to persuade politicians to go along with the agenda of the lobbying group. It's special interests trading with politicians. The more you have to trade, the more capable you are to buy political power.
It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076173 - 11/02/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MaxwellSmart said: Biggest. facepalm. ever.
It costs millions to release a new drug, raising consumer prices, which they don't mind since the fees and regulations act as barriers to keep competitors out of the market. They make higher profits because they have little or no competition, allowing them to charge more, and the FDA gets a nice payment in exchange.
Before you talk about pharmaceutical companies ''make higher profits' and 'charging more' I want to ask you if you know how much money Gilead Pharmaceuticals Spent--UP FRONT, before they make even a dime, or get FDA approval, for the new hepititis C drug Sofosbuvir? (It works well too)
Once you find that information out come back and tell me if it is fair or not whether they are going to charge a lot of money for it. Remember, a pharmaceutical company can spend Billions up front front to develop a new drug, only to have years and money wasted because the Government decides the drug isn't safe. That's a HUGE risk they take, so, what is fair?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076191 - 11/02/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MaxwellSmart said: You're right, you did say I could lobby.
Sorry man, but I think you're being a bit naive. Politics is all about making deals. Endorsements, campaign contributions, threats, etc, are all used to persuade politicians to go along with the agenda of the lobbying group. It's special interests trading with politicians. The more you have to trade, the more capable you are to buy political power.
It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.
And this is where all these guys just lose any and all credibility. The entirety of their political position is predicated on the prohibition of a shitty fucking drug that doesn't do much at all except makes the user fucking stupid and boring to anyone not similarly diminished.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076193 - 11/02/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MaxwellSmart said:
It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.
What makes you think that government doesn't have the right to ban possession of a plant?
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: starfire_xes]
#19076206 - 11/02/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with making profits. If a product is good, producers ought to make money. I also think that they should be free to charge what they want. After all, it is theirs to sell. I just have a problem with over regulation and otherwise limiting competition so that there is no alternative but to buy products that are over priced.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19076212 - 11/02/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am a human being. It's my plant. You explain why they would have the right to prohibit it.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19076222 - 11/02/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
MaxwellSmart said: You're right, you did say I could lobby.
Sorry man, but I think you're being a bit naive. Politics is all about making deals. Endorsements, campaign contributions, threats, etc, are all used to persuade politicians to go along with the agenda of the lobbying group. It's special interests trading with politicians. The more you have to trade, the more capable you are to buy political power.
It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.
And this is where all these guys just lose any and all credibility. The entirety of their political position is predicated on the prohibition of a shitty fucking drug that doesn't do much at all except makes the user fucking stupid and boring to anyone not similarly diminished.
You're knocking my credibility because I support ending prohibition? On THIS site?? Yesterday you claimed to be a libertarian.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076275 - 11/02/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MaxwellSmart said: I am a human being. It's my plant. You explain why they would have the right to prohibit it.
You think being a human being gives you the right to own a plant? That's ridiculous. It is just as logical to say that a plant, by virtue of being a plant, has a right to own a human
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076303 - 11/02/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MaxwellSmart said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
MaxwellSmart said: You're right, you did say I could lobby.
Sorry man, but I think you're being a bit naive. Politics is all about making deals. Endorsements, campaign contributions, threats, etc, are all used to persuade politicians to go along with the agenda of the lobbying group. It's special interests trading with politicians. The more you have to trade, the more capable you are to buy political power.
It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.
And this is where all these guys just lose any and all credibility. The entirety of their political position is predicated on the prohibition of a shitty fucking drug that doesn't do much at all except makes the user fucking stupid and boring to anyone not similarly diminished.
You're knocking my credibility because I support ending prohibition? On THIS site?? Yesterday you claimed to be a libertarian.
No. I am knocking your credibility because that is apparently all you give a shit about in regard to politics. Yes, the fucking government does have the right to prohibit a plant. Is that a good idea? No. It is an asshole idea and I would grant you the right to get as uselessly stoned as you want as long as I don't have to pay for it in any way.
I am in favor of legalizing all drugs for every adult. I am also in favor of denying any public benefits to anybody who chooses to indulge.
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


Registered: 10/27/13
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19076317 - 11/02/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
MaxwellSmart said: I am a human being. It's my plant. You explain why they would have the right to prohibit it.
You think being a human being gives you the right to own a plant? That's ridiculous. It is just as logical to say that a plant, by virtue of being a plant, has a right to own a human
So you can't tell me where the right to prohibit comes from? Do you not believe in the right to own property? I just said it's my plant. Whether I grew it myself or traded for it, I acquired it legitimately. How can anyone tell me I do not have a right to own what is mine?Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
MaxwellSmart said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
MaxwellSmart said: You're right, you did say I could lobby.
Sorry man, but I think you're being a bit naive. Politics is all about making deals. Endorsements, campaign contributions, threats, etc, are all used to persuade politicians to go along with the agenda of the lobbying group. It's special interests trading with politicians. The more you have to trade, the more capable you are to buy political power.
It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.
And this is where all these guys just lose any and all credibility. The entirety of their political position is predicated on the prohibition of a shitty fucking drug that doesn't do much at all except makes the user fucking stupid and boring to anyone not similarly diminished.
You're knocking my credibility because I support ending prohibition? On THIS site?? Yesterday you claimed to be a libertarian.
No. I am knocking your credibility because that is apparently all you give a shit about in regard to politics. Yes, the fucking government does have the right to prohibit a plant. Is that a good idea? No. It is an asshole idea and I would grant you the right to get as uselessly stoned as you want as long as I don't have to pay for it in any way.
I am in favor of legalizing all drugs for every adult. I am also in favor of denying any public benefits to anybody who chooses to indulge.
That is all I care about? Where are you getting that idea? I think this is the first place I've even mentioned it.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076373 - 11/02/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whether you like it or not, government has the right to regulate behavior. It has been that way since the beginning of society.
By the way, it isn't illegal to own marijuana. It's illegal to cultivate, possess, sell, or transport it.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19076382 - 11/02/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Whether you like it or not, government has the right to regulate behavior. It has been that way since the beginning of society.
By the way, it isn't illegal to own marijuana. It's illegal to cultivate, possess, sell, or transport it.
Does that means an American citizen can own shares in a marijuana farm in, say, Mali?
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


Registered: 10/27/13
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19076387 - 11/02/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Whether you like it or not, government has the right to regulate behavior. It has been that way since the beginning of society.
By the way, it isn't illegal to own marijuana. It's illegal to cultivate, possess, sell, or transport it.
I think you mean that the government has the power to regulate behavior. They do not have the right.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076406 - 11/02/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What gives you the right to decide what the government has the right to do? Who elected you?
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
#19076420 - 11/02/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: What gives you the right to decide what the government has the right to do? Who elected you?
I own myself. No one had to elect me to that position. Every human has a right to their own bodies. It is your birthright.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076436 - 11/02/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sounds like hippie bullshit to me.
I still don't understand why you think you have the right to own another living thing.
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19076461 - 11/02/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Sounds like hippie bullshit to me.
I still don't understand why you think you have the right to own another living thing.
You don't believe in property ownership and you're worried about the rights of plants. Who's the hippie?
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076482 - 11/02/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe I'm property ownership as a social construct. Without social construct, however, it is absurd to own anything. The same society that makes ownership possible gives the government the right to regulate it. You seem to be all about the construct except where your precious plant is concerned.
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19076575 - 11/02/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I believe I'm property ownership as a social construct. Without social construct, however, it is absurd to own anything. The same society that makes ownership possible gives the government the right to regulate it. You seem to be all about the construct except where your precious plant is concerned.
Do I have the right to tell you what you can own? No. Do you have the right to tell me what to own? No. So how can we delegate this right to someone else when we never had it to begin with?
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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zappaisgod
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076606 - 11/02/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MaxwellSmart said:
Quote:
Enlil said: I believe I'm property ownership as a social construct. Without social construct, however, it is absurd to own anything. The same society that makes ownership possible gives the government the right to regulate it. You seem to be all about the construct except where your precious plant is concerned.
Do I have the right to tell you what you can own?
No you don't. Do you know why you don't and they do? Because nobody elected you to decide anything.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076616 - 11/02/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you need some basic education. Society is an agreement between members to give up some freedom to coexist. In our society, the members wanted weed illegal...so it is. Someday that may change.
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19076747 - 11/02/13 07:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I think you need some basic education. Society is an agreement between members to give up some freedom to coexist. In our society, the members wanted weed illegal...so it is. Someday that may change.
No, a small minority decided that marijuana was illegal and the public didn't react strongly enough to make them reverse the decision... yet.
So is it your position that the state has the right to do whatever it wants? If the state made it illegal to own a gun, is it their right to do so? How about a dog? Food? Is there anything the state does not have the right to do?
Btw, I majored in political science.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076773 - 11/02/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Grats?
The state can't make it generally illegal to own a gun because the second amendment limits the state's power to do so. They could absolutely ban ownership of dogs. They couldn't ban all food because of the due process clause of the fourteenth amendment.
To answer your last question, the state can pass any laws that don't conflict with the constitution or federal law
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19076924 - 11/02/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So your rights come from a piece of paper?
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076943 - 11/02/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You've got it backwards. The piece of paper simply lists the rights that the authors saw fit to protect from tyranny of the majority.
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mindgnome
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: dr.alkaline]
#19077001 - 11/02/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
dr.alkaline said: I often hear people complaining about these companies and how their profits are unfair or their practices are unethical(patent duration/animal testing etc). Big pharma is often synonymous for evil profiteering cooperation in casual conversation. I argue support for these companies, for I think they are powerhouses for advancing science. The massive amount of resources these companies have allow then to run experiments that grant supported academia/government labs can't touch. Its incredible.
Come at me
Yeah but they are developing drugs that keep people from being who they truly are. I don't know if those columbine kids were homicidal before meds but once they were on paxil shit went south. I don't like pharmaceutical companies one bit.
-------------------- "As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe "Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin
Edited by mindgnome (11/02/13 08:39 PM)
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19077038 - 11/02/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You've got it backwards. The piece of paper simply lists the rights that the authors saw fit to protect from tyranny of the majority.
At best, the Constitution is a contract. No contract is valid unless both parties agree. The Constitution was never agreed upon by the population, who are all dead, and even the authors are dead.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
-Lysander Spooner
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: mindgnome]
#19077044 - 11/02/13 08:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mindgnome said:
Quote:
dr.alkaline said: I often hear people complaining about these companies and how their profits are unfair or their practices are unethical(patent duration/animal testing etc). Big pharma is often synonymous for evil profiteering cooperation in casual conversation. I argue support for these companies, for I think they are powerhouses for advancing science. The massive amount of resources these companies have allow then to run experiments that grant supported academia/government labs can't touch. Its incredible.
Come at me
Yeah but they are developing drugs that keep people from being who they truly are. I don't know if those columbine kids were homicidal before meds but once they were on paxil shit went south. I don't like pharmaceutical companies one bit.
Agreed.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart] 1
#19077062 - 11/02/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The constitution isn't a contract. You really are coming out of left field with a bunch of nonsense today.
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19079063 - 11/03/13 07:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The constitution isn't a contract. You really are coming out of left field with a bunch of nonsense today.
If it's not a contract, it is a list of privileges and restrictions forcibly imposed on a population that was never asked and never agreed.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19079230 - 11/03/13 08:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wow...you must not have paid much attention in your poli sci courses...
The Constitution is a document limiting the power of government...not limiting the power of the citizens. At least it was before the 13th amendment was ratified.
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19079362 - 11/03/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Wow...you must not have paid much attention in your poli sci courses...
The Constitution is a document limiting the power of government...not limiting the power of the citizens. At least it was before the 13th amendment was ratified.
I'm sitting here drinking coffee from a mug with the Bill of Rights printed on the side (The civil liberties disappear when you pour something hot in, hehe). I know about the bill of rights and I generally have no problem with them. However, these are not rights if they are granted to us, which in effect, they are, if we need a piece of paper to prove them. Rights are what you have because you are human, not because the state says you have them. As listed, these amendments are merely privileges that the plantation owners allow, at least, most of the time. Of course, the B.o.R. has been ignored so much that it's basically irrelevant.
The rest of the Constitution is where the real problems are: Taxation, money creating authority, this supposed thing called "treason", etc. It's all written deceptively to make the reader believe that the point is to protect the people. What it really does is create a false sense that there is an agreement between the state and the general population. There is no agreement and the Constitution is useless to protect you when the state has you in it's sights.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19079391 - 11/03/13 09:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The Bill of Rights didn't originally apply to the states anyway. When the Constitution was ratified, the states were free to ban free speech, or establish an official religion, etc.
Again, you aren't getting the point of the Constitution. It was ratified by states...not citizens. It is a limit on the power of the newly formed federal government. It was never intended to be a statement of rights that people have or don't have. The bill of rights was added for the purpose of protecting certain enumerated rights from infringement by the federal government...mostly so that those rights can be regulated by the states as the states see fit.
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MaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19079420 - 11/03/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you are missing the point. The Constitution is the law of the land. You said yourself that the citizens never voted on it.
"Article. VI.
[P2] This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution..."
It sets up a government when no consent has been given by the governed.
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Enlil
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart] 1
#19079435 - 11/03/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No, YOU'RE missing the point. The Constitution, while the supreme law of the nation, didn't regulate the citizens when originally ratified. It regulated the federal government mostly, and the state governments somewhat. Until the 13th amendment, the Constitution didn't force citizens to do anything or prohibit them from doing anything.
The citizens were already being governed. The Constitution only created a federal system which operated on top of the systems already in place in the newly-labeled states. Consent was given by the governed through their elected state officials.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19079814 - 11/03/13 11:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MaxwellSmart said: So your rights come from a piece of paper?
No, they come from a gun.
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