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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076773 - 11/02/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Grats?
The state can't make it generally illegal to own a gun because the second amendment limits the state's power to do so. They could absolutely ban ownership of dogs. They couldn't ban all food because of the due process clause of the fourteenth amendment.
To answer your last question, the state can pass any laws that don't conflict with the constitution or federal law
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


Registered: 10/27/13
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19076924 - 11/02/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So your rights come from a piece of paper?
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19076943 - 11/02/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You've got it backwards. The piece of paper simply lists the rights that the authors saw fit to protect from tyranny of the majority.
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mindgnome
Wanderer


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: dr.alkaline]
#19077001 - 11/02/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
dr.alkaline said: I often hear people complaining about these companies and how their profits are unfair or their practices are unethical(patent duration/animal testing etc). Big pharma is often synonymous for evil profiteering cooperation in casual conversation. I argue support for these companies, for I think they are powerhouses for advancing science. The massive amount of resources these companies have allow then to run experiments that grant supported academia/government labs can't touch. Its incredible.
Come at me
Yeah but they are developing drugs that keep people from being who they truly are. I don't know if those columbine kids were homicidal before meds but once they were on paxil shit went south. I don't like pharmaceutical companies one bit.
-------------------- "As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe "Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin
Edited by mindgnome (11/02/13 08:39 PM)
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 113
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19077038 - 11/02/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You've got it backwards. The piece of paper simply lists the rights that the authors saw fit to protect from tyranny of the majority.
At best, the Constitution is a contract. No contract is valid unless both parties agree. The Constitution was never agreed upon by the population, who are all dead, and even the authors are dead.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
-Lysander Spooner
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


Registered: 10/27/13
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: mindgnome]
#19077044 - 11/02/13 08:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mindgnome said:
Quote:
dr.alkaline said: I often hear people complaining about these companies and how their profits are unfair or their practices are unethical(patent duration/animal testing etc). Big pharma is often synonymous for evil profiteering cooperation in casual conversation. I argue support for these companies, for I think they are powerhouses for advancing science. The massive amount of resources these companies have allow then to run experiments that grant supported academia/government labs can't touch. Its incredible.
Come at me
Yeah but they are developing drugs that keep people from being who they truly are. I don't know if those columbine kids were homicidal before meds but once they were on paxil shit went south. I don't like pharmaceutical companies one bit.
Agreed.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart] 1
#19077062 - 11/02/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The constitution isn't a contract. You really are coming out of left field with a bunch of nonsense today.
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


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Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19079063 - 11/03/13 07:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The constitution isn't a contract. You really are coming out of left field with a bunch of nonsense today.
If it's not a contract, it is a list of privileges and restrictions forcibly imposed on a population that was never asked and never agreed.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19079230 - 11/03/13 08:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wow...you must not have paid much attention in your poli sci courses...
The Constitution is a document limiting the power of government...not limiting the power of the citizens. At least it was before the 13th amendment was ratified.
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19079362 - 11/03/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Wow...you must not have paid much attention in your poli sci courses...
The Constitution is a document limiting the power of government...not limiting the power of the citizens. At least it was before the 13th amendment was ratified.
I'm sitting here drinking coffee from a mug with the Bill of Rights printed on the side (The civil liberties disappear when you pour something hot in, hehe). I know about the bill of rights and I generally have no problem with them. However, these are not rights if they are granted to us, which in effect, they are, if we need a piece of paper to prove them. Rights are what you have because you are human, not because the state says you have them. As listed, these amendments are merely privileges that the plantation owners allow, at least, most of the time. Of course, the B.o.R. has been ignored so much that it's basically irrelevant.
The rest of the Constitution is where the real problems are: Taxation, money creating authority, this supposed thing called "treason", etc. It's all written deceptively to make the reader believe that the point is to protect the people. What it really does is create a false sense that there is an agreement between the state and the general population. There is no agreement and the Constitution is useless to protect you when the state has you in it's sights.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19079391 - 11/03/13 09:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The Bill of Rights didn't originally apply to the states anyway. When the Constitution was ratified, the states were free to ban free speech, or establish an official religion, etc.
Again, you aren't getting the point of the Constitution. It was ratified by states...not citizens. It is a limit on the power of the newly formed federal government. It was never intended to be a statement of rights that people have or don't have. The bill of rights was added for the purpose of protecting certain enumerated rights from infringement by the federal government...mostly so that those rights can be regulated by the states as the states see fit.
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MaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
#19079420 - 11/03/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you are missing the point. The Constitution is the law of the land. You said yourself that the citizens never voted on it.
"Article. VI.
[P2] This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution..."
It sets up a government when no consent has been given by the governed.
-------------------- "The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart] 1
#19079435 - 11/03/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No, YOU'RE missing the point. The Constitution, while the supreme law of the nation, didn't regulate the citizens when originally ratified. It regulated the federal government mostly, and the state governments somewhat. Until the 13th amendment, the Constitution didn't force citizens to do anything or prohibit them from doing anything.
The citizens were already being governed. The Constitution only created a federal system which operated on top of the systems already in place in the newly-labeled states. Consent was given by the governed through their elected state officials.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
#19079814 - 11/03/13 11:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MaxwellSmart said: So your rights come from a piece of paper?
No, they come from a gun.
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