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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19076191 - 11/02/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:
You're right, you did say I could lobby.

Sorry man, but I think you're being a bit naive. Politics is all about making deals. Endorsements, campaign contributions, threats, etc, are all used to persuade politicians to go along with the agenda of the lobbying group. It's special interests trading with politicians. The more you have to trade, the more capable you are to buy political power.

It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.



And this is where all these guys just lose any and all credibility.  The entirety of their political position is predicated on the prohibition of a shitty fucking drug that doesn't do much at all except makes the user fucking stupid and boring to anyone not similarly diminished.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19076193 - 11/02/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:


It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.



What makes you think that government doesn't have the right to ban possession of a plant?


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19076206 - 11/02/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with making profits. If a product is good, producers ought to make money. I also think that they should be free to charge what they want. After all, it is theirs to sell. I just have a problem with over regulation and otherwise limiting competition so that there is no alternative but to buy products that are over priced.


--------------------
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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
    #19076212 - 11/02/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I am a human being. It's my plant. You explain why they would have the right to prohibit it.


--------------------
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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Posts: 113
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19076222 - 11/02/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:
You're right, you did say I could lobby.

Sorry man, but I think you're being a bit naive. Politics is all about making deals. Endorsements, campaign contributions, threats, etc, are all used to persuade politicians to go along with the agenda of the lobbying group. It's special interests trading with politicians. The more you have to trade, the more capable you are to buy political power.

It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.



And this is where all these guys just lose any and all credibility.  The entirety of their political position is predicated on the prohibition of a shitty fucking drug that doesn't do much at all except makes the user fucking stupid and boring to anyone not similarly diminished.



You're knocking my credibility because I support ending prohibition? On THIS site?? Yesterday you claimed to be a libertarian.


--------------------
"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19076275 - 11/02/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:
I am a human being. It's my plant. You explain why they would have the right to prohibit it.



You think being a human being gives you the right to own a plant?  That's ridiculous.  It is just as logical to say that a plant, by virtue of being a plant, has a right to own a human


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19076303 - 11/02/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:
You're right, you did say I could lobby.

Sorry man, but I think you're being a bit naive. Politics is all about making deals. Endorsements, campaign contributions, threats, etc, are all used to persuade politicians to go along with the agenda of the lobbying group. It's special interests trading with politicians. The more you have to trade, the more capable you are to buy political power.

It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.



And this is where all these guys just lose any and all credibility.  The entirety of their political position is predicated on the prohibition of a shitty fucking drug that doesn't do much at all except makes the user fucking stupid and boring to anyone not similarly diminished.



You're knocking my credibility because I support ending prohibition? On THIS site?? Yesterday you claimed to be a libertarian.




No.  I am knocking your credibility because that is apparently all you give a shit about in regard to politics.  Yes, the fucking government does have the right to prohibit a plant.  Is that a good idea?  No.  It is an asshole idea and I would grant you the right to get as uselessly stoned as you want as long as I don't have to pay for it in any way.

I am in favor of legalizing all drugs for every adult.  I am also in favor of denying any public benefits to anybody who chooses to indulge.


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19076317 - 11/02/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:
I am a human being. It's my plant. You explain why they would have the right to prohibit it.



You think being a human being gives you the right to own a plant?  That's ridiculous.  It is just as logical to say that a plant, by virtue of being a plant, has a right to own a human



So you can't tell me where the right to prohibit comes from? Do you not believe in the right to own property? I just said it's my plant. Whether I grew it myself or traded for it, I acquired it legitimately. How can anyone tell me I do not have a right to own what is mine?
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:
You're right, you did say I could lobby.

Sorry man, but I think you're being a bit naive. Politics is all about making deals. Endorsements, campaign contributions, threats, etc, are all used to persuade politicians to go along with the agenda of the lobbying group. It's special interests trading with politicians. The more you have to trade, the more capable you are to buy political power.

It's not so much that lobbying is bad, in itself. It is the political system generally. No one has the right to prohibit ownership of a plant, no matter how much money you can pay organized criminals to enforce such a rule.



And this is where all these guys just lose any and all credibility.  The entirety of their political position is predicated on the prohibition of a shitty fucking drug that doesn't do much at all except makes the user fucking stupid and boring to anyone not similarly diminished.



You're knocking my credibility because I support ending prohibition? On THIS site?? Yesterday you claimed to be a libertarian.




No.  I am knocking your credibility because that is apparently all you give a shit about in regard to politics.  Yes, the fucking government does have the right to prohibit a plant.  Is that a good idea?  No.  It is an asshole idea and I would grant you the right to get as uselessly stoned as you want as long as I don't have to pay for it in any way.

I am in favor of legalizing all drugs for every adult.  I am also in favor of denying any public benefits to anybody who chooses to indulge.



That is all I care about? Where are you getting that idea? I think this is the first place I've even mentioned it.


--------------------
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19076373 - 11/02/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Whether you like it or not, government has the right to regulate behavior.  It has been that way since the beginning of society. 

By the way, it isn't illegal to own marijuana.  It's illegal to cultivate, possess, sell, or transport it.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
    #19076382 - 11/02/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Whether you like it or not, government has the right to regulate behavior.  It has been that way since the beginning of society. 

By the way, it isn't illegal to own marijuana.  It's illegal to cultivate, possess, sell, or transport it.




Does that means an American citizen can own shares in a marijuana farm in, say, Mali?


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
    #19076387 - 11/02/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Whether you like it or not, government has the right to regulate behavior.  It has been that way since the beginning of society. 

By the way, it isn't illegal to own marijuana.  It's illegal to cultivate, possess, sell, or transport it.



I think you mean that the government has the power to regulate behavior. They do not have the right.


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19076406 - 11/02/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What gives you the right to decide what the government has the right to do?  Who elected you?


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19076420 - 11/02/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What gives you the right to decide what the government has the right to do?  Who elected you?



I own myself. No one had to elect me to that position. Every human has a right to their own bodies. It is your birthright.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19076436 - 11/02/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds like hippie bullshit to me.

I still don't understand why you think you have the right to own another living thing.


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
    #19076461 - 11/02/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Sounds like hippie bullshit to me.

I still don't understand why you think you have the right to own another living thing.



You don't believe in property ownership and you're worried about the rights of plants. Who's the hippie?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19076482 - 11/02/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I believe I'm property ownership as a social construct.  Without social construct, however, it is absurd to own anything.  The same society that makes ownership possible gives the government the right to regulate it.  You seem to be all about the construct except where your precious plant is concerned.


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 113
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
    #19076575 - 11/02/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I believe I'm property ownership as a social construct.  Without social construct, however, it is absurd to own anything.  The same society that makes ownership possible gives the government the right to regulate it.  You seem to be all about the construct except where your precious plant is concerned.



Do I have the right to tell you what you can own? No. Do you have the right to tell me what to own? No. So how can we delegate this right to someone else when we never had it to begin with?


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19076606 - 11/02/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
I believe I'm property ownership as a social construct.  Without social construct, however, it is absurd to own anything.  The same society that makes ownership possible gives the government the right to regulate it.  You seem to be all about the construct except where your precious plant is concerned.



Do I have the right to tell you what you can own?




No you don't.  Do you know why you don't and they do?  Because nobody elected you to decide anything.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19076616 - 11/02/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think you need some basic education.  Society is an agreement between members to give up some freedom to coexist.  In our society, the members wanted weed illegal...so it is.  Someday that may change.


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
Enemy of State


Registered: 10/27/13
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Re: I think big pharma/industry is great [Re: Enlil]
    #19076747 - 11/02/13 07:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I think you need some basic education.  Society is an agreement between members to give up some freedom to coexist.  In our society, the members wanted weed illegal...so it is.  Someday that may change.



No, a small minority decided that marijuana was illegal and the public didn't react strongly enough to make them reverse the decision... yet.

So is it your position that the state has the right to do whatever it wants? If the state made it illegal to own a gun, is it their right to do so? How about a dog? Food? Is there anything the state does not have the right to do?

Btw, I majored in political science.


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