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chaosbydesign
in-between dimensions



Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 78
Loc: The Big Apple (in your ha...
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Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT
#18866690 - 09/20/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Recently I tried smoking caapi leaves (showcased on the package as having been originally from Terence Mckenna's farm in Hawaii, though who knows if this is true), and then smoking DMT about 15 minutes after that. I did this twice in one night: smoked 4 bowls full of the caapi leaf, then smoked about 15mg of DMT, then about 45 minutes after the first effects of the DMT went away, I had about 4 more bowls of the caapi, waited the same amount of time and then smoked about 20mg of DMT. I noticed the following differences, compared to smoking DMT on its own: -15-20mg definitely went a much longer way than it normally would. -the DMT burnt into the mesh in 'the machine' smelled soooo delicious! I usually like the smell/taste of DMT, but this was a noticeable difference. When I even saw the DMT, it sent shivers down my spine. I felt so drawn to it; it was as if all my senses were just loving this DMT on every level before I even ingested it. -Holding in the DMT vapor seemed different than usual. It was so much easier to take huge hits without the risk of coughing, and holding it in for a long time was just second nature. Hell, my lungs *liked* it. It felt very right somehow. -The feeling I got when it first came on was different. There was more of a body feeling than usual, and that strange alienlike-yet-familiar feeling that is the essence of hyperspace set in after only one hit. It seemed to hit me more quickly than usual, but all the same it took longer to build in effects and slowly became more bewildering over the first 5 minutes rather than the onset being the most bewildering part. -Wayyy more OEVs than usual, both times. Everything in the entire room seemed to have an entity within, and all objects looked like they had flowing edges floating and evaporating into the spaces around them. (I remember that my purse turned into a piranha-entity. Haha.) -Felt a 'presence' that was undoubtedly not from the DMT alone. I've done DMT so many times on its own that this was very obvious to me right away. -The entities I met seemed to be of a more 'serious' nature than usual and the experience took on a more serious tone overall. -The main part of the trip lasted longer and the after effects lingered for an hour or two afterwards as well (maybe until the caapi's effects wore off). -It really felt *wonderful*. All else aside, the peacefulness was amazing and I basked in it. I usually love DMT for the feeling it gives me alone, but this bliss was indescribable and persisted for a very long time!
So yes, this definitely works! Anyone who said the dried caapi leaves wouldn't work must've had a totally different experience than I did. Even after just having the caapi alone, before I added the DMT, I experienced effects. I noticed a feeling of things looking different, yet I couldn't place my finger on what it was that made things seem different. When I laid down, I felt so nicely floaty. I also was so much more aware of all he sounds, sights and other things I could sense in my environment.
Sorry about the lack of details regarding trip content, entity contact etc.... they are a bit too personal to share here. All I know is that I am going to have to revisit this caapi + DMT realm again in a couple of months or so - my life is currently in a major state of transition and I learned from those two experiences that I ought to wait and partake again later after the storm has passed.
Would love to know others' experiences with smoking just the caapi leaf to enhance the effects of DMT and other psychedelics, particularly before DMT (not DMT-enhanced leaf or changa as in smoked at the same time as DMT) and smoking it during longer trips (such as mushrooms, as Terence McKenna recommended). I decided to share this here because most people seemed to be smoking caapi 10x or more etc, or using harmala extracts. I'd read on some forums that the plain leaf didn't potentiate or change the experience much... But for me, it did... so I wanted to share.
Also, have others too noticed the same "yummy DMT" phenomenon that I experienced (that it's so much more enjoyable to smell/taste/inhale/ even look at DMT after ingesting harmalas)? DD
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I reside in the uncharted space in between; where intangible detail meets reality's seams...
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CatchThirtythr33
Pineal Gland Optics


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: chaosbydesign]
#18870654 - 09/21/13 02:34 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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The part where you said your lungs liked it when you held it in - I experienced the same thing the first time I smoked 10x caapi changa that I made a few days ago. It felt like I could hold my breath forever, with no effort. It barely even felt like I was holding my breath at all. There's a magical synergy between DMT and caapi. The two were just meant to be together
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chaosbydesign
in-between dimensions



Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 78
Loc: The Big Apple (in your ha...
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: CatchThirtythr33]
#18882536 - 09/23/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes! This. It really does seem like they are made for one another. ^_^ I guess that since people have been consuming them together for centuries, maybe they have evolved in a way where if somebody takes one of hem, the body seems to suggest to the mind, "Here. Take the counterpart, too!" Subconsciously, we know exactly what we need at any given time.
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CatchThirtythr33 said: The part where you said your lungs liked it when you held it in - I experienced the same thing the first time I smoked 10x caapi changa that I made a few days ago. It felt like I could hold my breath forever, with no effort. It barely even felt like I was holding my breath at all. There's a magical synergy between DMT and caapi. The two were just meant to be together 
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I reside in the uncharted space in between; where intangible detail meets reality's seams...
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CatchThirtythr33
Pineal Gland Optics


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: chaosbydesign]
#18882776 - 09/23/13 10:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Caapi definitely adds something to the solo DMT flash. A warmth, a spirit, a fuzziness, a sense of "rightness". Its peculiar, but it just adds a whole new dimension to an already expansive experience.
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Edited by CatchThirtythr33 (09/23/13 11:51 PM)
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Global_Roaming
purity of essence



Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 300
Loc: over the fucking rainbow....
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: CatchThirtythr33]
#18882791 - 09/23/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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This sounds worthy of giving a go - kind of like a two-step changa. Will try this in the next day or two.
Question: are you vaping the caapi leaf or blazing it?
-------------------- /peace out brothers and sisters

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mattritt
Mind Chemist




Registered: 02/02/08
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: Global_Roaming]
#18883876 - 09/24/13 08:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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After doing it several times with caapi alks that I extracted, now doing it without just isn't the same. The caapi makes it such a smoother deeper experience.
-------------------- **Metaphysical Crystal, Stones, Gems, and Minerals** Every individual reacts differently to every chemical. Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.
"You need more THC to your brain, faster." - Drr
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,897
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: chaosbydesign]
#18885710 - 09/24/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I tried something similar a few months back with an maoi, syrian rue seeds.
I tried smoking the seeds 10 to 20 minutes before smoking the dmt, as well as making a tea with 2g to 4g of seeds drank 40 to 60 minutes before smoking the dmt.
In a nutshell, what stood out to me was....
-Smoking the seeds was effective, I definitely felt an maoi effect from a couple bowls of seeds (I'm pretty sure syrian rue has higher concentrations of harmalas compared to caapi). The tea was much more effective though.
-When smoking the DMT the effects came on slower. Where I usually am when I exhale the first hit, I'm not getting there until moments after exhaling or moments into taking the 2nd hit.
-The come up/flash is smoothed out. Rather than a quick jarring launch, it's a smooth continuously stronger pull into a breakthough.
-After the come up/flash, once immersed in the experience, it's easier for me to take things in. It's much easier to process what's happening.
-The experience over all lasts considerably longer. With out an maoi involved is usually 5 to 15 minutes for me, with an maoi involved is at least 20 to 30+ minutes. I've even had residual effects/visuals last well over an hour.
-The visual component is much more pronounced and intense.
-I seem to encounter the presence of entity/spirit much more often when an maoi is involved.
So...generally speaking. My experience with an maoi in combo with smoked DMT is an over all slowed down experienced, easier to process, easier to take in, smaller amounts can be taken, more immersive. Much more like a really short ayahuasca experience.
-OM
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chaosbydesign
in-between dimensions



Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 78
Loc: The Big Apple (in your ha...
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: Global_Roaming]
#18983431 - 10/15/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey, did you ever try? If so, I'd be curious as to how it turned out. 
Quote:
Global_Roaming said: This sounds worthy of giving a go - kind of like a two-step changa. Will try this in the next day or two.
Question: are you vaping the caapi leaf or blazing it?
And openmind, thanks for sharing your observations. They sound much like what I experienced! I'm interested in trying syrian rue next. I don't have any of those seeds you speak of, but I have syrian rue 5x extract. I'm just a little unsure of dosing and I think that it has to be taken orally.. unless I somehow put it on leaves. Perhaps you have some advice?
Oh and by the way, I tried caapi with mushrooms and DMT and posted a Trip Report here if anyone is interested: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18967173
))
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I reside in the uncharted space in between; where intangible detail meets reality's seams...
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Global_Roaming
purity of essence



Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 300
Loc: over the fucking rainbow....
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: chaosbydesign]
#18983485 - 10/15/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
chaosbydesign said: Hey, did you ever try? If so, I'd be curious as to how it turned out. 
Quote:
Global_Roaming said: This sounds worthy of giving a go - kind of like a two-step changa. Will try this in the next day or two.
Question: are you vaping the caapi leaf or blazing it?
Actually I forgot to give it a go LOL. But great timing on bumping this thread as I just finished my changa last night, and I do have some freebase and caapi leaf around. Tomorrow night - will blaze two or three bowls of plain caapi followed by vaping some freebase... gettin' a little excited already haha
-------------------- /peace out brothers and sisters

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chaosbydesign
in-between dimensions



Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 78
Loc: The Big Apple (in your ha...
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: Global_Roaming]
#18983822 - 10/15/13 10:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ahh would love to join ya in hyperspace but WAY too much studying this week :P Lemme know how it goes.. comparing across our research!! hehe
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Global_Roaming said:
Quote:
chaosbydesign said: Hey, did you ever try? If so, I'd be curious as to how it turned out. 
Quote:
Global_Roaming said: This sounds worthy of giving a go - kind of like a two-step changa. Will try this in the next day or two.
Question: are you vaping the caapi leaf or blazing it?
Actually I forgot to give it a go LOL. But great timing on bumping this thread as I just finished my changa last night, and I do have some freebase and caapi leaf around. Tomorrow night - will blaze two or three bowls of plain caapi followed by vaping some freebase... gettin' a little excited already haha
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I reside in the uncharted space in between; where intangible detail meets reality's seams...
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MystiqueMushroom

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 4,737
Loc: PNW
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: Global_Roaming]
#18983828 - 10/15/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cool post thanks for sharing 
Yet to try caapi, one day hopefully.
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Global_Roaming
purity of essence



Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 300
Loc: over the fucking rainbow....
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: chaosbydesign]
#18983916 - 10/15/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Roger that. Will add to this thread with the results on Friday.
Quote:
chaosbydesign said: Ahh would love to join ya in hyperspace but WAY too much studying this week :P Lemme know how it goes.. comparing across our research!! hehe
Quote:
Global_Roaming said:
Quote:
chaosbydesign said: Hey, did you ever try? If so, I'd be curious as to how it turned out. 
Quote:
Global_Roaming said: This sounds worthy of giving a go - kind of like a two-step changa. Will try this in the next day or two.
Question: are you vaping the caapi leaf or blazing it?
Actually I forgot to give it a go LOL. But great timing on bumping this thread as I just finished my changa last night, and I do have some freebase and caapi leaf around. Tomorrow night - will blaze two or three bowls of plain caapi followed by vaping some freebase... gettin' a little excited already haha
-------------------- /peace out brothers and sisters

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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,897
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: chaosbydesign]
#18987740 - 10/16/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
chaosbydesign said: And openmind, thanks for sharing your observations. They sound much like what I experienced! I'm interested in trying syrian rue next. I don't have any of those seeds you speak of, but I have syrian rue 5x extract. I'm just a little unsure of dosing and I think that it has to be taken orally.. unless I somehow put it on leaves. Perhaps you have some advice?
Oh and by the way, I tried caapi with mushrooms and DMT and posted a Trip Report here if anyone is interested: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18967173
))
Indeed they do, very similar aspects were experienced.
I'm almost positive, I'm pretty sure the extract can be smoked/vaped just fine, you can search around if you want to confirm that. I believe it can also be taken sub-lingually under the tongue. Of course taken orally would be the most reliable method.
What's the extract like as far as consistency/texture? Is it gooey or more like a powder?
I'm not sure how much you should take either, I've never worked with extracts of syrian rue. But the seeds themselves, 2g to 4g seems sufficient.
I'm curious to hear more from your future endeavors with this, when ever you get around to it.
-OM
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chaosbydesign
in-between dimensions



Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 78
Loc: The Big Apple (in your ha...
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: openmind]
#18989260 - 10/17/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The syrian rue extract actually is in liquid form in a dropper. O.o So I think it's supposed to be taken orally... It says that each dropperful contains 75mL of alkaloid (harmaline)... so I'm not sure whether I'd be able to soak this into leaves or anything like that. I wonder if it would work if I soaked it into the caapi leaves to make them more powerful? Just not sure if it would work or evaporate properly. I've never tried making DMT-enhanced leaf before. Any tips from anyone?
If I try this, I will post my experience and observations here. 
Quote:
openmind said: I'm almost positive, I'm pretty sure the extract can be smoked/vaped just fine, you can search around if you want to confirm that. I believe it can also be taken sub-lingually under the tongue. Of course taken orally would be the most reliable method.
What's the extract like as far as consistency/texture? Is it gooey or more like a powder?
I'm not sure how much you should take either, I've never worked with extracts of syrian rue. But the seeds themselves, 2g to 4g seems sufficient.
I'm curious to hear more from your future endeavors with this, when ever you get around to it.
.
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I reside in the uncharted space in between; where intangible detail meets reality's seams...
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Global_Roaming
purity of essence



Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 300
Loc: over the fucking rainbow....
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: chaosbydesign]
#18989721 - 10/17/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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OK. I gave this method a go about an hour ago. Here's what went down:
- Weighed out 230mg of plain peruvian caapi leaf (about 3 bowls worth), put it through my grinder and blazed the lot over the course of 5 minutes. - After that I weighed out 24mg of fluffy white (probably more like 22mg as some stuck to the measuring tray), threw a few extra screens in the CVG, loaded it up and waited about 15 minutes while listening to some Younger Brother. - Gave the CVG a long slow hit, held it a long time, then just managed to repeat for a second hit before I was too far gone.
Results: - Felt a little spacey after smoking the caapi, but felt I could have smoked more - Vaping the deems was strange, I could hardly taste anything and there was no harshness, overall very easy - The come-up was quick but gentle including some early OEVs after which I progressed very linearly to peak - No breakthrough, but I didn't expect one at this dose (I have a naturally high tolerance), it was more like the usual kind of slideshow of moments - Duration was about 12 minutes, which is almost double the usual 6-7 minutes I'd usually experience on the same dosage. This allowed me to process some of the imagery, including a weird moment when I noticed a small girl just standing near me and looking up at me without saying anything, just seconds before a childs voice came over the iPod music. Weird. - Also first time I've come out of the trip with a raging hard-on LOL - Afterglow lasted a fair while longer than usual (compared to changa)
I enjoyed it overall, and probably need to give it another go or two before I can decide if it will become part of my routine. The only drawback (for me, others may be different), apart from it being a little more complicated than simply blazing changa, is that my lungs are feeling a little choked due to smoking more herb than I normally would with changa.
Next time, I'll aim for about 300-350mg of plain leaf + no more than 10 minute break + anywhere between 30 and 40mg of deems.
-------------------- /peace out brothers and sisters

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lostinthecloud
Stranger

Registered: 01/25/13
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: mattritt]
#18990294 - 10/17/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mattritt: what extraction method did you use? Have powdered caapi (purportedly 4x, but who knows?), that is not smokeable, because the powder becomes airborn. I've seen water extractions, but they require gallons and gallons being reduced, and I don't have the facilities for that. Manske, I've read, is not a good approach for caapi. How'd you do it?
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The Centre
I am



Registered: 10/04/08
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: CatchThirtythr33]
#18990371 - 10/17/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
CatchThirtythr33 said: Caapi definitely adds something to the solo DMT flash. A warmth, a spirit, a fuzziness, a sense of "rightness". Its peculiar, but it just adds a whole new dimension to an already expansive experience.
Interestingly, Syrian Rue based harmala's in my last changa batch gave a very real sense of WRONGNESS there... Like I'm causing a short circuit. Heck, DMT feels like an apocalypse button to me.
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,897
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: Global_Roaming]
#18992069 - 10/17/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Global_Roaming said: - Weighed out 230mg of plain peruvian caapi leaf (about 3 bowls worth), put it through my grinder and blazed the lot over the course of 5 minutes.
- Felt a little spacey after smoking the caapi, but felt I could have smoked more
That 230mg of plain leaf was enough to induce an maoi spacey head space? Just seems like a minuscule amount of leaf to me, I'd assume it would take a few grams at least for there to be a pronounced maoi headspace.
I have yet to work with caapi my self so ....but I'm pretty sure that syrian rue seeds have a considerably higher concentration of harmalas than caapi. When smoking the seeds, it takes a pretty good size pinch of seeds (1g, give or take) for me to experience that spacey-stoning maoi effect.
Quote:
- Also first time I've come out of the trip with a raging hard-on LOL
Interesting ...A few of my dmt experiences have had certain sexual or "erotic" connotations about them. And the presence of one of the "entities" I've encountered had a very flirtatious erotic vibe about her.
-OM
.
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Global_Roaming
purity of essence



Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 300
Loc: over the fucking rainbow....
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: openmind]
#18992347 - 10/17/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
openmind said: That 230mg of plain leaf was enough to induce an maoi spacey head space? Just seems like a minuscule amount of leaf to me, I'd assume it would take a few grams at least for there to be a pronounced maoi headspace.
I have yet to work with caapi my self so ....but I'm pretty sure that syrian rue seeds have a considerably higher concentration of harmalas than caapi. When smoking the seeds, it takes a pretty good size pinch of seeds (1g, give or take) for me to experience that spacey-stoning maoi effect.
Yep - the 230mg of plain leaf looked equivalent to about a cigarettes worth of material - I felt very dreamy, sort of like a threshold toke of MJ. I could have done with more effect, but not sure how much more I could actually smoke. Haven't experimented with rue yet, so can't really compare potency, but I think you're right about the concentration of MAOIs.
Quote:
openmind said: Interesting ...A few of my dmt experiences have had certain sexual or "erotic" connotations about them. And the presence of one of the "entities" I've encountered had a very flirtatious erotic vibe about her.
Without fail I see visions of women erotically/seductively dancing at some point during my DMT trips (this doesn't happen with shrooms). I suspect its linked to a love/lust moral dilemma I'm struggling with. With the extra duration of last nights trip, I kinda of connected a few dots and I think my consciousness is pointing me in a certain direction, which scares me a little. Although the boner was a complete surprise!
-------------------- /peace out brothers and sisters

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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,897
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Re: Impressions of smoked caapi leaf (plain; not extract or changa) before doing DMT [Re: Global_Roaming]
#18992568 - 10/17/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
chaosbydesign said: The syrian rue extract actually is in liquid form in a dropper. O.o So I think it's supposed to be taken orally... It says that each dropperful contains 75mL of alkaloid (harmaline)... so I'm not sure whether I'd be able to soak this into leaves or anything like that. I wonder if it would work if I soaked it into the caapi leaves to make them more powerful? Just not sure if it would work or evaporate properly. I've never tried making DMT-enhanced leaf before. Any tips from anyone?
If I try this, I will post my experience and observations here. 
Ah I see...
I'm thinking the liquid the extract is dissolved in is likely high proof alcohol....If it is alcohol, it should evaporated pretty quickly & nicely. Maybe just drop a little bit onto some leaf to see how it evaporates.
Or you could always just drop it under the tongue, or in a bit of water/juice and drink it down. Syrian Rue, & maoi in general, do work much better when taken orally compared to being smoked. Smoking does work, but taken orally is definitely the way to go.
-OM
.
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