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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: Envix]
#18987342 - 10/16/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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understanding tends to give rise to tolerance. but here i go with my linguistic semantic bullshit.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: Envix]
#18987347 - 10/16/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well except there are constant demands from religious peace people that everybody respect their traditions and avoid their taboos. I'm not Muslim, why can't I draw a picture of Muhammad? It is absurd. There are too many incompatible belief system and there is no point in trying to respect any of them.
Jihad me, brah!
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (10/16/13 05:54 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
#18987352 - 10/16/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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you realize that these institutions require a certain amount of intolerance to incorporate them into your daily life, right?
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18987375 - 10/16/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes. I must be tolerant of a southern baptist's intolerance about the fact that I lay with man instead of woman..
The idea of respecting and understanding all religious beliefs is ridiculous. If you are truly a believer in most religions, part of the belief system is that everyone else is wrong.
Remember, we aren't talking about reality or facts. We are talking about fabricated ideas and opinions.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (10/16/13 06:00 PM)
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Envix
Avoidant Disorder


Registered: 11/04/08
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
#18987378 - 10/16/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
millzy said: understanding tends to give rise to tolerance. but here i go with my linguistic semantic bullshit.
i sincerely understand where you're coming from completely. and you can either believe me or not on that. language is extremely susceptible to personal distortion and manipulation. have you ever played "the telephone game" in school?
anyway, i'm not here to argue. i'm here to point out the trickiness of language, and you seem to be taking it as a personal attack. language is not who we are, we are all connected, and we use language to separate us as individuals and institutions, with our own linguistically-set-up systems of beliefs and definitions.
meaning & intentionality is something that precedes actual physicalized language. on this level we all actually mean to just be ourselves. that's all anyone can mean to do, you see. language is an expression of that intention, and we use it to build the world any way we want.
heaven, hell, sins, deeds, etc. etc. these are creations of our own. we've used them to define certain aspects of ourselves, and how we feel about them.
-------------------- smack a hoe out this dimension continue my ascension -bhad bhabie rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b
Edited by Envix (10/16/13 06:32 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: Envix]
#18987388 - 10/16/13 06:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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you are not your brain. you are not your words.
envix, you wise mother, you.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18987428 - 10/16/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dude everything this kid has posted in the past couple of days has tripped me out. Envix youd be a crazy motherfucker to trip with man
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18987462 - 10/16/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Right now, the county school system here is debating whether to put a Muslim holiday on the calendar. The Muslims argue that there are Christian and Jewish holidays where the schools are closed. This is what happens when you respect peoples religious beliefs. The Christians have their holidays, so the Jews want theirs. Now the Muslims, then what. will we have to close the schools for the solstices, or for koodsday, the celebration of koods, the founder of koodism?
The world would work a lot better if we existed as if there were no god (ie, a secular society) and believers were not catered to and would just have to suck up being butthurt from time to time because nobody is giving them special treatment.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (10/16/13 06:21 PM)
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: koods]
#18987473 - 10/16/13 06:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Imo religion causes more problems than it solves. Way more.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: koods]
#18987481 - 10/16/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Yes. I must be tolerant of a southern baptist's intolerance about the fact that I lay with man instead of woman..
The idea of respecting and understanding all religious beliefs is ridiculous. If you are truly a believer in most religions, part of the belief system is that everyone else is wrong.
Remember, we aren't talking about reality or facts. We are talking about fabricated ideas and opinions.
no, you certainly don't have to be tolerant of intolerance. this is known as a teleological suspension of ethics. one virtue supersedes another in order to serve the highest good. in the case of being intolerant of tolerance, the virtue of justice is superseding the virtue of tolerance. at any rate, you seem to consistently misunderstand my position, and i'm not sure if it's a failure to explain it on my end, stubbornness or some sort of light hearted malice on your end (as in akira and envix's case where they are intentionally ignoring my claims in order to frustrate me), or something in between. at this point i really don't care and honestly, i'm not having the greatest days so i'll just stop here. i'm under so much academic and work pressure right now that i've blown my voice out from just screaming bloody murder at nobody in my apartment this morning. lol. so i'll let you guys have it. you win.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
Edited by millzy (10/16/13 06:24 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: Mescalean]
#18987485 - 10/16/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mescalean said: Imo religion causes more problems than it solves. Way more.
That is what it comes down to. Problems can be solved through religion, but religion is not necessary to solve them. Meanwhile, there are problems caused by religion and religion alone.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
#18987507 - 10/16/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
millzy said:
Quote:
koods said: Yes. I must be tolerant of a southern baptist's intolerance about the fact that I lay with man instead of woman..
The idea of respecting and understanding all religious beliefs is ridiculous. If you are truly a believer in most religions, part of the belief system is that everyone else is wrong.
Remember, we aren't talking about reality or facts. We are talking about fabricated ideas and opinions.
no, you certainly don't have to be tolerant of intolerance. this is known as a teleological suspension of ethics. one virtue supersedes another in order to serve the highest good. in the case of being intolerant of tolerance, the virtue of justice is superseding the virtue of tolerance. at any rate, you seem to consistently misunderstand my position, and i'm not sure if it's a failure to explain it on my end, stubbornness or some sort of light hearted malice on your end (as in akira and envix's case where they are intentionally ignoring my claims in order to frustrate me), or something in between. at this point i really don't care and honestly, i'm not having the greatest days so i'll just stop here. i'm under so much academic and work pressure right now that i've blown my voice out from just screaming bloody murder at nobody in my apartment this morning. lol. so i'll let you guys have it. you win.
Except, there are southern baptists who claim that things like gay marriage are examples of society's intolerance of their religious beliefs. My point is, it is impossible to do anything with offending someone's religious beliefs, so the best course of action is to not worry about these things at all.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
#18987520 - 10/16/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
millzy said:
Quote:
koods said: Yes. I must be tolerant of a southern baptist's intolerance about the fact that I lay with man instead of woman..
The idea of respecting and understanding all religious beliefs is ridiculous. If you are truly a believer in most religions, part of the belief system is that everyone else is wrong.
Remember, we aren't talking about reality or facts. We are talking about fabricated ideas and opinions.
no, you certainly don't have to be tolerant of intolerance. this is known as a teleological suspension of ethics. one virtue supersedes another in order to serve the highest good. in the case of being intolerant of tolerance, the virtue of justice is superseding the virtue of tolerance. at any rate, you seem to consistently misunderstand my position, and i'm not sure if it's a failure to explain it on my end, stubbornness or some sort of light hearted malice on your end (as in akira and envix's case where they are intentionally ignoring my claims in order to frustrate me), or something in between. at this point i really don't care and honestly, i'm not having the greatest days so i'll just stop here. i'm under so much academic and work pressure right now that i've blown my voice out from just screaming bloody murder at nobody in my apartment this morning. lol. so i'll let you guys have it. you win.
your claims are valid... they're just wrong.
something like that, right? does this help in justifying it all to you?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18987695 - 10/16/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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PS: yeah, we all could do with more understanding in this world. understanding our culture. understanding religion and spirituality. understanding the underlying philosophies that fuel and drive our world now.
but...
WE WON'T, because some things are just incompatible with each other.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,462
Loc: Turtle Island
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: Uzziel]
#18988174 - 10/16/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Uzziel said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: I don't know how much more simple I can make it than this:
the universe exists, because the potential for the universe to exist is inherent to reality--in an infinite existence all potential is eventually realized--a spontaneous release of energy before returning again to the state of potential
as my understanding of it goes, remove the sanskrit terminology, and you get a fair analogy for the big bang theory--of a universe spontaneously arising out of an undifferentiated infinite, persisting for a period of time, and then eventually returning back to a state of undifferentiation
does it make sense to blame the universe for the existence of what we perceive as good and evil?
Right so what you're saying then is the universe is not responsible for any action then and everything is inexplicable and nothing makes sense and the world is chaos because there is no order of the universe by god there is only potential for creation.
What you're saying is morality is only explainable by human beings then.
That is what I said already. Correct me if I'm somehow wrong.
To your first point, I wouldn't say that everything is chaos (systems of organization definitely exist within this universe, and I don't believe myself knowledgeable enough to pronounce the universe itself as either orderly or chaotic), nor do I see knowledge or understanding as impossible to reach--but the basic concept of the universe not being responsible for its actions would be correct, as I see it.
Second point; I see 'good' and 'evil' as subjective terms, with not objective basis. What may be perceived as good by me, may appear bad to another. So yea, I do not believe in a objective morality--each human creates their own.
Final point; I originally brought up this concept as a response to you positing the problem of evil, to show that concepts of 'god' exist which, unlike the abrahamic god, are not contradicted by the existence of 'evil'.
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Uzziel
O_o


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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#18988219 - 10/16/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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So you're saying there is no right and wrong? Sounds like chaos to me. If that isn't chaos, I don't know what is. What you say is contradictory, if consciousness is worthless in terms of morality, why do people seek it?
If there are no right and wrongs, why do people feel that there are right and wrongs?
Is the right answer to "Is unnecessary pain good?" Yes or No? Are such things really subjective to each person? If one answers No, you would fall under the limitation of "Problem of Evil" If you answer yes, you're a psycho along with your "god"...
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: Uzziel]
#18988226 - 10/16/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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consciousness is just the next corner of your mind, unto the next one unto the next one. it's a certain death. it's a pustule of suffering agonizing contentedness with the end all be all.
it's a fundamental driver of human extinction.
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Envix
Avoidant Disorder


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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: Uzziel]
#18988246 - 10/16/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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right and wrong is what we interpret from connectedness and disconnectedness. yes i am just using words to describe other words. but there are two equal yet polar forces which are the driving mechanisms of the universe: integrative, and segregative. that which attracts (or unifies), and that which repels (or disconnects)
something either has the potential to exist in unity (harmony), or to exist in disconnection (chaos)
disconnection is actually the categorization of symbols and objects in the material world, and harmony is the present reality in the absence of any interpreted meaning.
we create chaos through language, and we create harmony through the lack thereof. the universe consists of both, at least in our eyes. the nature of reality is both chaotic and harmonic. is it only because we define it as such? or is the nature of reality really this dualistic? i think the universe exists as potentiality and probabilities, and becomes manifest in the form determined by the probabilistic input/output of the observer.
so what can really be said about language, other than it has created everything we've come to know and understand about the reality we inhabit
science has gotten us far. language has gotten us science and taken us further than science could have ever taken us. however, there is a time when language breaks down, and there is nothing we can use to describe the universe as it actually is, apart from our own subjective interpretations
chaos? or harmony? U decide. literally
-------------------- smack a hoe out this dimension continue my ascension -bhad bhabie rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: Envix] 1
#18988262 - 10/16/13 09:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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blah.
blahblah blah.
blahlah blah. blahh.
BLAH BLAH BLAH!
BLAH.
BLAH BLAH BLAAAGGGH BLAAAH BLAAAH BLAHHHHHHHHRH!!
BLEH?
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Envix
Avoidant Disorder


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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#18988289 - 10/16/13 09:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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tmckenna reads - Lewis Carroll - Jabberwocky
-------------------- smack a hoe out this dimension continue my ascension -bhad bhabie rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b
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