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Smushroom
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Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: fapjack]
#18980909 - 10/15/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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TLC is the way to go for simple purity testing.
I do think the 150e starting price is a bit high but I do understand that from a business perspective its a pretty fair price. As long as replacement plates and elluent cost ~1e per test then I don't see any problem with it. I would also like to see the 150e include free international shipping if possible, will make it more appealling.
365: I agree that you can put your own TLC setup together for quite a bit cheaper but most people don't even know what TLC is and if this actually turns them on to it by making it simpler then I'm all for it. Also prices of lab equipment in Europe is quite a bit higher than in the states not to mention having to get some if it shipped from various countries if you can source domestic.
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Smushroom
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Registered: 02/02/05
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Smushroom]
#18984803 - 10/16/13 04:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just found similar kits online using TLC for testing THC content in marijuana. It is actually less sophisticated and doesn't include as much equipment than what you are offering. It does seem to be about the same price for the original kit (assuming 10 plates = 50 tests) but the refills are more expensive than what you are offering.
I'm posting the link below for comparison purposes only. I don't want to sound like I am advertising a different company in someone else's thread so if you want me ot remove the link I will.
http://www.thctestkits.com/
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TLConscious
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Smushroom]
#18984950 - 10/16/13 06:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hello!
Just a couple of things to remark: I want to remind people that this is NOT a complicated procedure, you do NOT need any previous experience with analysis methods. This kit should work out-of-the-box and instructions should be simple enough for most people to understand. We will offer personalized feedback for people using it for the first times so as to make it as smooth as possible. This kit can separate substances so you identify mixes of adulterants in ways that EZ test and the like cannot.
Regarding making one`s own TLC kit, I seriously doubt it is possible for anywhere near the price we are offering them for. If you are a single person buying material, you won`t be able to buy just a few plates or a few capillaries. Boxes with TLC plates are expensive, and so is the rest of the material. Making your own TLC plates is possible but you won`t have a standardized plate for analysis, so any literature information regarding identification of compounds will be mostly useless, you`ll need to have standards yourself. Also if you do it on your own without the kit, it would take experience with the analysis method to know what you are doing, know what eluent to use, plus having standards.. That would make it a much more complicated endeavour, and significantly more expensive. But if anybody is up to it, go ahead, we are happy with more people testing, whatever way it is. 
So we offer an alternative, a powerful analysis kit of easy use and access to information one couldn`t have otherwise. We honestly think our price is a good one. But that`s up to each one to decide, once one really understands what we are offering If you trust us, we won`t let you down 
Regarding the THC testing kits linked above, it is true they work in a similar fashion than our kits, with a couple of important differences:
1- We dont use fastblue reagent to visualize spots like they do, we use UV light. Fastblue reagent is very toxic. Our plates have special fluorescence indicator so all you need is our UV light to see spots.
2- Their kit can only test cannabis, and no other drug. Our kit can test cannabis and most other drugs.
Thanks for the interest and all feedback! Again, feel free to ask any questions, give constructive criticism, suggestions, etc!
Edited by TLConscious (10/16/13 06:19 AM)
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Smushroom
Avid Learner

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
#18984965 - 10/16/13 06:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know the THC test kits are different but I just wanted to link them so people like 365 can see what comparable kits cost.
I agree that you could not make a kit of the same quality as yours for any less money and you are providing the info to analyze results which will actually make it possible for normal people to use it.
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TLConscious
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Smushroom]
#18985046 - 10/16/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes 
I hope my words didnt sound negative because they weren`t! I think it is good that you post an example of another kit so people can see for themselves! Thanks for that!
We are not in this to compete against other companies or organizations or personal attempts to do this, we actually just want to add a powerful and accessible testing option to people, to collaborate with other organizations, and to help people being informed about their drugs, diminishing ingestion of adulterants, and helping people being autonomous by finding psychoactive plants in their own area that they can harvest sustainably without having to resort to purchasing from dealers or similar.
Thank you for your feedback!
Edited by TLConscious (10/16/13 07:08 AM)
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
#18985474 - 10/16/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by rikuni (03/16/14 05:17 AM)
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dstark
Manifesting Minds


Registered: 02/27/08
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: rikuni]
#18985497 - 10/16/13 10:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
rikuni said: but the test is equipped so that I could test for the dmt content in plants and stuff? 
Presence for sure! TLConcious, can you tell dmt precentage with this test?
-------------------- What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered? ~I Feel at Home~
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: dstark]
#18985640 - 10/16/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by rikuni (03/16/14 05:17 AM)
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Smushroom
Avid Learner

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: rikuni]
#18985814 - 10/16/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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thin layer chromotography is more for testing purity than potency. As in it will show if there is a mixture of compounds instead of a single one.
Now you can pretty easily compare 2 samples based on the size of the spot but knowing an actual % is difficult. In theory they could run several controlled experiments with varying % of DMT content and give you pics of the results so you could find the closest match to your results. Not sure how indepth they will get into that stuff.
If a lot of people start to adopt this testing method I am sure someone will organize an online system to store results for comparison.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
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Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Smushroom]
#18986152 - 10/16/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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After you posting all the details, and me poking around online looking at prices, I have to change my opinion. This test really isn't very overpriced for what you get. It's just cheaper to do in the US.
It has, however, got me thinking of maybe setting up a little TLC booth at festivals to test peoples' stuff. I'm pretty sure I know a few people who would be down.
So watch out, next year you might see team 365 with a big TLC testing tent at your favorite festival!
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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TLConscious
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: 36fuckin5]
#18987729 - 10/16/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes, you can most definitely find DMT containing plants in your area with this kit.
Regarding finding amounts in plant, it works. Let me show you a quick preliminary work we`ve done to test if it would work to semi-quantify alkaloids in plants:

Each dot represents one sample. As you can see, different dilutions of DMT, NMT and gramine standards (and mimosa hostilis root bark) will give a different size spot.
So by looking at the size of the mimosa spot (or any other plant of interest) and comparing to the DMT spots and doing simple calculation taking in account both dilutions, you can find out more or less the percentage of DMT the plant has. In this case, mimosa shows to be around 2% , which does correspond to the stated yields.
We will do more tests to see what are the best ways to soak different types of plant material (leafs, bark, flowers, dry vs fresh, powder vs pieces etc), and take high quality picture of the plate and/or make a small printed card with the sizes of spots for people to compare. In theory this can be done for any substance, it`s just a matter of people telling us what they need and us providing this information for them 
In case you wonder, we did also NMT and gramine standards because they are found in several plants, and gramine is potentially toxic. Gramine is found in phalaris grass for example, so we want to help people being safe if they are trying to use different plants containing tryptamines. As you can see, gramine, NMT and DMT are in very different heights in the plate, so if a substance had all 3 of them in significant amounts, you would see in one column the 3 spots, one in each height.
Are the explanations I`m giving clear enough? Feel free to ask anything you don`t understand or want to know!
Edited by TLConscious (10/16/13 07:34 PM)
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dstark
Manifesting Minds


Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 4,144
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: 36fuckin5]
#18988374 - 10/16/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: After you posting all the details, and me poking around online looking at prices, I have to change my opinion. This test really isn't very overpriced for what you get. It's just cheaper to do in the US.
It has, however, got me thinking of maybe setting up a little TLC booth at festivals to test peoples' stuff. I'm pretty sure I know a few people who would be down.
So watch out, next year you might see team 365 with a big TLC testing tent at your favorite festival!

Maybe dancesafe should support this project rather than seeing it as competition(if they do)! Maybe in future thair sote will be offering your TLC tests:)
Hey TLC, using your pic for first post for the good look
-------------------- What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered? ~I Feel at Home~
Edited by dstark (10/16/13 09:32 PM)
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TLConscious
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: dstark]
#18989456 - 10/17/13 02:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you really consider setting up a testing booth in a festival, be sure to contact us because we have quite a lot of experience with this, having done analysis work in festivals for a few years.
If you are in USA, I would be careful with the legal aspects of it, since if law enforcement sees you receiving illegal samples in public and you have no authorization, you might get in trouble. One idea would be to set a `do it yourself` kind of testing booth where you only give the users the equipment and instruct them, but they handle the samples themselves. This would both keep you in a more comfortable legal zone, as well as help promoting self-empowerement, educating people on testing methods so that they might be interested in looking into it and testing more by themselves in the future.
Edited by TLConscious (10/17/13 02:42 AM)
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Smushroom
Avid Learner

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
#18989503 - 10/17/13 03:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I also want to say there will be issues in the US about kits that confirm the presence of a controlled substance. I know some of the early testers are raves in the 90s faced some issues until they ruled that reagent tests only test for what a substance is not and can't tell you specifically what is in a sample. With the TLC kits there may be other various issues. Would definitely want to look into the legality of it is you want to actually set up testing booth or even sell the kits on site.
You may could get around that by providing the plates, solvent, and capillary tubes to people then having them apply the sample and return the plate for processing on site.
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TLConscious
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Smushroom]
#18989650 - 10/17/13 06:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here you see Mimosa Hostilis with mostly DMT, then Acacia confusa rootbark which has a slightly higher NMT to DMT ratio (it was tested later with GC/MS to be around 60/40), then a very concentrated DMT sample, then the NMT standard
Edited by TLConscious (10/17/13 06:44 AM)
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Smushroom
Avid Learner

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
#18989683 - 10/17/13 06:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just a suggestion, when you go to take pics to print or post for the actual kits I would recommend mounting a camera over top of it looking down so it can be stable and in focus. Also a direct overhead view of the slide would be easier to look at and compare.
You can get a flexible tripod or make one yourself. Another option would be to buy a document camera that is made for that exact purpose. The can be bought for $150-200 in the US, I assume they would be about the same in euros.
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TLConscious
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Smushroom]
#18989710 - 10/17/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh yeah most definitely! Thanks for the feedback.
This one was just a screenshot from the video that I added the caption for illustrative purposes in this thread. For the kit instructions there will be an image in upright position to scale for the identification help.
Edited by TLConscious (10/17/13 07:10 AM)
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dstark
Manifesting Minds


Registered: 02/27/08
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Smushroom]
#18990217 - 10/17/13 10:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smushroom said: I also want to say there will be issues in the US about kits that confirm the presence of a controlled substance. I know some of the early testers are raves in the 90s faced some issues until they ruled that reagent tests only test for what a substance is not and can't tell you specifically what is in a sample. With the TLC kits there may be other various issues. Would definitely want to look into the legality of it is you want to actually set up testing booth or even sell the kits on site.
You may could get around that by providing the plates, solvent, and capillary tubes to people then having them apply the sample and return the plate for processing on site.
And the police will be sitting next to the booth waiting for people to approach with illegal substances:lol
Also start taking pics of your various damples, a TLC database will happen omewhere in the future, why dont you guys start with it?:-) I bet there could be plenty with your few years of using it
-------------------- What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered? ~I Feel at Home~
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Delta9Hippie
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: dstark]
#18990286 - 10/17/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wait, how are you testing "how much" of substances are in a sample? Doesn't TLC just tell you what is in it, not how much?
-------------------- "During evolutionary time, the avenues of possible progress have become progressively restricted, until today only one remains...Man...has been suddenly appointed managing director of the biggest business of all, the business of evolution." Life begins the day you start a garden. Check out my trade list in My Journal...
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Smushroom
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Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Delta9Hippie]
#18990500 - 10/17/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I mentioned it earlier. The only way to judge % in a sample with TLC is based on the spot size. Assuming you dissolve the same amount of sample in the same amount of solvent before applying higher concentrations will produce larger spots. I would assume TLConscious will take pure chems to run example tests with various %s and take pictures of the results. So in theory you can compare your spot sizes to their example sizes to get a rough estimate of concentration.
I will be fairly easy to actually compare 2 samples which would come in handy for plants / mushrooms. The more potent one will produce larger spots.
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