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OfflineSpace Elf
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Registered: 07/29/10
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Drugs are bad, mmmkay?
    #18984215 - 10/16/13 12:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Basically, every time I've talked to my family members about the spiritual benefits of psychedelics, of which I've experienced first-hand, this is generally the response that I get; psychedelics are bad, because they're drugs, period.

Personally, I can't say for sure if I'd still be a spiritual person if I'd never had these experiences and used psychedelics for spiritual growth. So my question is, do you think it matters how you get there as long as you do get there? (this excludes doing anything worse than taking drugs, which, IMO, isn't an invariably a bad thing to do.)


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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: Space Elf]
    #18984283 - 10/16/13 12:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If someone can only discover their spirituality through ritualistic killing of innocents, then I might have something against that.

Not saying it's wrong, but it definitely goes against my best interests.
Some people are stuck in a mindset where they think drug users are destroying their world.  :shrug:


So no, I don't think it matters, but that doesn't mean people won't try to stop you.


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #18984538 - 10/16/13 01:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It doesn't matter how you get there but I see no point in trying to convince people that psychedelics are good unless they are trying to put people in jail for using them.

The truth is that while psychedelics have a rather unique property in that they can really wake a person up, the vast majority of people who take them do not get woken up. If they experienced any enlightenment on the drug, they ignored it and went back to how they were before. The people who are super enthusiastic about the spiritual aspect of psychs are probably mostly people whose souls were longing to awaken anyway and did so at the first excuse (psychedelics). For someone who is not ready and is going to resist, psychedelics could indeed be a bad thing. They also are not necessary, so why try to convince others to value something which is unecessary and potentially dangerous? Now if they show interest, that is a different story.


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OfflineYogi1
Squatchin
Registered: 04/01/13
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Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: Space Elf]
    #18986107 - 10/16/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:curbyourenthusiasm:

Maybe remind them that caffeine, tobacco, and alcohol are all drugs, mmmkayyy


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OfflineLysergicX7
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Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 1,206
Loc: Montana, USA
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: Yogi1]
    #18986772 - 10/16/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
:curbyourenthusiasm:

Maybe remind them that caffeine, tobacco, and alcohol are all drugs, mmmkayyy



This, and then they will bring up the issue that psychedelics are illegal probably but then remind them that just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. Laws are subject to change, and LSD was actually legal for a little while.


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“Everybody is fundamentally, the ultimate reality. Not god in the political kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self – the deep down basic whatever there is. And you’re all that… only you’re pretending you’re not.” -Alan Watts

I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be.”
― Albert Hofmann


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InvisibleGrateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence
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Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 2,468
Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: Space Elf]
    #18986824 - 10/16/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

No I don't think it matters how you get there

Let each man take the path according to his capacity, understanding and temperament. His true guru will meet him along that path.”

I think being mindful of your own thoughts is important in life. You need to know where you want to go, know what you want to be doing, and stay true to the path you really know deep down is YOUR path.

If you do drugs be mindful of how they are affecting you. I think many people just pick one view on drugs. Those seem to be.

"drugs are bad, never do them"
or
"drugs are always good, do them"

Both those are fine, if you really fallow them and look carefully at how your life is going and you need to have the faith if you see that you think you are going down a path that is leading you into someplace you don't like, to look at other paths and try them.

Or simply just be openminded to the other paths in life there are many after all.


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Life begins on the other side of despair...


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
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Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: Space Elf]
    #18987080 - 10/16/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Space Elf said:
Basically, every time I've talked to my family members about the spiritual benefits of psychedelics, of which I've experienced first-hand, this is generally the response that I get; psychedelics are bad, because they're drugs, period.

Personally, I can't say for sure if I'd still be a spiritual person if I'd never had these experiences and used psychedelics for spiritual growth. So my question is, do you think it matters how you get there as long as you do get there? (this excludes doing anything worse than taking drugs, which, IMO, isn't an invariably a bad thing to do.)




If you are honest with yourself and can really point to specific examples of how drugs have helped you grow spiritually, then all power to yea. But I often see "spiritual" people using it as an excuse to experience something cool. If this is your reasoning, then more power to yea as well.


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Invisibler72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.
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Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago Flag
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #18987618 - 10/16/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
If you are honest with yourself and can really point to specific examples of how drugs have helped you grow spiritually, then all power to yea. But I often see "spiritual" people using it as an excuse to experience something cool. If this is your reasoning, then more power to yea as well.




I see this all too well around me. Someone will do LSD because they say it's "for their spiritual growth" and it'll help them see how to solve the problems in their life, but in reality, I believe their real motivation is because it's a Saturday night and they're bored. There's nothing wrong with doing it because it's a Saturday night and you're bored, but I just see people try to convince themselves of something that it isn't -- and I think that's really unhealthy.

As long as people understand the risks involved, and are consenting adults, I don't see a problem with the use of them.


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Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: r72rock]
    #18987797 - 10/16/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

very true, and I know people who have had amazing transformative experiences on psychs and so keep going back to them in the hope to find that experience when it's no longer there. I know that's not always the case but I've seen people do this and I certainly felt like this myself after my first strong mushroom trip.

I reckon psychs can definitely facilitate some very positive experiences but in the end the user still has to change his old habits to integrate such an experience. Going back and back and back for more acid generally isn't changing old habits.

There's been people who look down on me for doing mushrooms in my room by myself and these same people will take lsd at 5 in the morning out at a club with a brain full of amphetamines and mdma. But apparently that's the way to do it. Taking high doses alone in the comfort of my own home/bed is "junkie" behaviour :confused:


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: birdland] * 1
    #18991615 - 10/17/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yea, real transformation happens when you change your daily sober actions and thoughts.


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InvisibleGrateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence
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Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 2,468
Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #18991715 - 10/17/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Yea, real transformation happens when you change your daily sober actions and thoughts.




:whathesaid:

That really sums it all up.


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Life begins on the other side of despair...


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OfflineYogi1
Squatchin
Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #18995245 - 10/18/13 11:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Yea, real transformation happens when you change your daily sober actions and thoughts.




An excellent point, BUT, I believe I learned and transformed more in 1 night on 2 drops vial acid with 3 friends getting tribal than I did at any other point in my life.

I really agree that since psychedelics have shown me what they have to show and dont have all that much new to show, that Yoga, meditation, habit changes, and sober mind changes seem to be more profound for me :mushroom2:


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: Yogi1]
    #18998385 - 10/19/13 02:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I find synergy between taking psychedelics and daily practices of meditation and yoga. They all help each other.  Meditating makes my trips better, just as tripping enhances my meditation, and so on.

As for the OP, I think how you get there does matter... as a beginner, focus on down to earth practices of meditation, yoga, and psychedelics to eliminate mental tension and dwell more in ecstatic states of consciousness.  While there may be a point to occult mysticism and religious philosophy, they seems to make many people into weird raving crazy people (as evidenced by these forums).  But these kind of practices that ground you will give you a more discerning mind when you breakthrough to the seeming realities of the wilder expanses of consciousness.


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineCrimpJiggler
Stranger

Registered: 08/28/11
Posts: 251
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #18998443 - 10/19/13 03:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sleepwalker said:
If someone can only discover their spirituality through ritualistic killing of innocents, then I might have something against that.

Not saying it's wrong, but it definitely goes against my best interests.
Some people are stuck in a mindset where they think drug users are destroying their world.  :shrug:


So no, I don't think it matters, but that doesn't mean people won't try to stop you.



Come on now, I think you're being a bit closed minded. Some people say prayers and go to confession on Sundays, I sacrifice children to the almighty Babylonian goat God. Different strokes for different folks.


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…...,~__________________, ,.
….../ `—___________—-___]Give a man a gun
…../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/he can rob a bank.
…..), —.(_(__) /
….// (..)),````
…//__/Give a man a bank,he can rob the world!
.//__/


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OfflineYogi1
Squatchin
Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18999088 - 10/19/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
I find synergy between taking psychedelics and daily practices of meditation and yoga. They all help each other.  Meditating makes my trips better, just as tripping enhances my meditation, and so on.

As for the OP, I think how you get there does matter... as a beginner, focus on down to earth practices of meditation, yoga, and psychedelics to eliminate mental tension and dwell more in ecstatic states of consciousness.  While there may be a point to occult mysticism and religious philosophy, they seems to make many people into weird raving crazy people (as evidenced by these forums).  But these kind of practices that ground you will give you a more discerning mind when you breakthrough to the seeming realities of the wilder expanses of consciousness.




In my experience it takes so long to really fully integrate a powerful experience like a psychedelic, not to mention the time it takes to regain physiological equilibrium... It takes consistent equilibrium to gain the bits from meditation, working out, etc...

Just my current take on things.


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: Yogi1]
    #19000988 - 10/19/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: birdland]
    #19012152 - 10/22/13 04:27 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Basically, every time I've talked to my family members about the spiritual benefits of psychedelics, of which I've experienced first-hand, this is generally the response that I get; psychedelics are bad, because they're drugs, period.




I've found this experience to be very similar to talking about sex with say, Pentecostal virgins. Or teenage Jehovah's Witnesses and such :rolleyes:

How exactly would you explain wet :vag: and :boobs: to a virgin, verbally, if they've never ever seen and touched them? Things like "rounded soft protuberances that jiggle and are pleasant to the touch" or "wet warm orifice with abundant lubrication" I feel somehow fail to transmit the awesomeness, making communication with these people quite difficult, even though abundant truth be on your side :lol:


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Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: Spacerific]
    #19012247 - 10/22/13 05:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

well put - I always use sex analogies when I am teaching  - they make good sense.


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...or something







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OfflineYogi1
Squatchin
Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Drugs are bad, mmmkay? [Re: eve69]
    #19013247 - 10/22/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
well put - I always use sex analogies when I am teaching  - they make good sense.




:nodofunderstanding:


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