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Helicoides
Twisted


Registered: 10/10/13
Posts: 13
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Aloha Spawn Senescence
#18981723 - 10/15/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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As I understand its a fairly common practice of suppliers to expand mycelium to the brink of senescence for grain spawn - I have heard this is something that FP does. Curious if anyone has any knowledge about the practices of Aloha for their grain spawn? I am wanting to work with a variety of species and learn how to grow them well before investing in a culture, as money is an issue at this point. I am wanting to go from grain to agar then store in slants, but I don't want this to be a complete waste of money if the strain is just about burnt out. Any comments appreciated.
-------------------- Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children
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eLeSDenes
Mycelium Expander




Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 955
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
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Re: Aloha Spawn Senescence [Re: Helicoides]
#18983039 - 10/15/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why don't you get a few prints and just learn all these things from this website. You can do everything in ghetto style even agar work. Isolating your own strain is the best fun.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Aloha Spawn Senescence [Re: Helicoides]
#18983074 - 10/15/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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unless it's an exotic strain you would probably be fine with an LC syringe from a 'regular' cheaper vendor. look around enough and you'll find people willing to trade that company's strains. you'll probably have MUCH better luck, and save money in the long run making your own spawn. i have never had luck getting grain spawn through the mail.
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Helicoides
Twisted


Registered: 10/10/13
Posts: 13
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Aloha Spawn Senescence [Re: drake89]
#18983347 - 10/15/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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In terms of prints, i'm not looking soley for the species, but for one that has proven itself - I don't have the capability/time/space to isolate from spores and do trials to find a strain that gives the characteristics of what is already in cultivation. Im sure an LC from any of the suppliers would be fine, just a bit cheaper going the route of grain spawn from Aloha ($11 for 2 lbs), plus their catalogue is far more extensive. I am looking for more uncommon species as well that are not normally carried by EM, OG etc. Just curious if others have experience/knowledge of Aloha.
-------------------- Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children
Edited by Helicoides (10/15/13 08:47 PM)
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Stool_Sample
Fruity



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 223
Loc: North East, US
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Re: Aloha Spawn Senescence [Re: Helicoides]
#18983699 - 10/15/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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well, I did just order a Master from FP. I had to look-up your senescence, <- idiot I guess.
If it was true they are taking the last fruiting strains to pass on, then I do not know why they would take a month+ to get the Culture to you.
also, if you are aware of their death, could you tell me how to tell? I mean, If I get a culture, spread it to 20+ jars. Fruit to 10+ bags of spawn. Couldn't I just use one of those Fruits to restart the Strain by cloning? or is that Clone of the culture still on the Senescence as the mycelium of the culture would be? Not really sure of Mycelium life cycle. Fill my glass on this subject please.
-------------------- "wise words here"
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TheMaster
PATIENCE


Registered: 07/13/13
Posts: 705
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
Stool_Sample said: well, I did just order a Master from FP. I had to look-up your senescence, <- idiot I guess.
If it was true they are taking the last fruiting strains to pass on, then I do not know why they would take a month+ to get the Culture to you.
also, if you are aware of their death, could you tell me how to tell? I mean, If I get a culture, spread it to 20+ jars. Fruit to 10+ bags of spawn. Couldn't I just use one of those Fruits to restart the Strain by cloning? or is that Clone of the culture still on the Senescence as the mycelium of the culture would be? Not really sure of Mycelium life cycle. Fill my glass on this subject please.
Senescence is essentially an internal clock of sorts that ticks each time the mycelium cells divide.
Each time a cell divides a few transcription errors may occur in the dna and overtime these compound to decrease the vigour of the original culture.
Starting from spores gives a fresh start and a new combination of dna.
The whole point of a culture slant is to keep some "young" generation mycelium in status. This can later be transferred to agar and expanded to bulk substrates.
-------------------- "Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." Mahatma Gandhi
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 5 days
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Re: Aloha Spawn Senescence [Re: Helicoides]
#18984789 - 10/16/13 04:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If one wants a viable culture for future use, order a culture slant not grain spawn. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Helicoides
Twisted


Registered: 10/10/13
Posts: 13
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Obviously a culture slant would be ideal, but for myself at this time and for many others it is prohibitively expensive for a hobbyist. I contacted Aloha and they said that they keep track of mycelial age for cultures (obviously) but not for grain spawn. Curious if anyone has tried storing grain spawn culture and reusing it, and with what success. I suppose if expansion is not carefully tracked for spawn replication which seems to be the case for Aloha, then it would depend on the strain/species' natural clock in terms of senescence.
I know the short and dirty answer is if you want young lines get a culture, but just curious what success if any has anyone had working with spawn from a company like Aloha? For a hobbyist it is a very economical way of having the chance to work with a wider variety of species than are otherwise available.
-------------------- Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children
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Helicoides
Twisted


Registered: 10/10/13
Posts: 13
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Aloha Spawn Senescence [Re: Helicoides]
#18985531 - 10/16/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh and Stool, to answer your question - if you are ordering a master from a reputable source like FP, you need not worry about senescence. What you need to do in order to preserve your culture and prevent senescence is to keep those cell lines as young or unexpanded as possible. That means going back to your master as a starting material when you wish to start spawn, i.e. don't use mycelium from from a grain jar or from subsequent g2g transfers as your base inoculum for future grows (that includes clones from fruiting bodies). Creating multiple master slants initially will give you many young cultures to go back to over time.
TheMaster was on the money, but as my understanding goes (and I could be very wrong) senescence has more to do with the shortening of DNA rather than mutations (although which can and do happen). Most organisms have a finite number of cellular replications they are capable of undergoing, the closer to that limit the older and slower the organism becomes (senescence). Read more about the Hayflick limit on this. In fungi you would note a marked decrease in vigor and fruiting potential. Again, not something you need to worry about with a reputable vendor such as FP, but you need to work with your culture appropriately if you are interested in maintaining it well into the future.
-------------------- Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children
Edited by Helicoides (10/16/13 10:40 AM)
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Stool_Sample
Fruity



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 223
Loc: North East, US
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Re: Aloha Spawn Senescence [Re: Helicoides]
#18985639 - 10/16/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I appreciate the info and will take the steps to prolong the sample. Thank you very much.
-------------------- "wise words here"
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Jeff
Addict



Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 1,488
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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In order of preference and cost I would order a slant/mycelium syringe/grain spawn/substrate spawn. If money is an issue I would go with the syringe. Reputable vendors have very vigorous cultures. Plating and storing on a slant is a cake walk. Keeping grain viable for extended periods of time is not.
-------------------- Myco-tek
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 5 days
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Re: Aloha Spawn Senescence [Re: Jeff]
#19001660 - 10/19/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Shiitake and Oyster grain spawn can be frozen. I kept both frozen for over a year and both recovered and grew very well once thawed. It would be interesting to find if there's an upper time limit to storing frozen grain spawn. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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leschampignons
Biochemistry + Mycology


Registered: 08/30/13
Posts: 1,583
Loc: NY/NJ/ME
Last seen: 28 days, 20 hours
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Shiitake and Oyster grain spawn can be frozen. I kept both frozen for over a year and both recovered and grew very well once thawed. It would be interesting to find if there's an upper time limit to storing frozen grain spawn. RR
Very interesting. maybe i'll throw some spawn in the freezer in that case and take it out in like 10 years...
When I get a chance I will also throw in spawn of some other species to see how they survive in there. Maybe other species wouldn't grow quite as well after thawing.
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