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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Politics - Such a beautiful science and art 2
#18980593 - 10/15/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Politics: Trying to convince people to see things your way using the media and ambiguous statements, hoping that only a small and silent minority will take the time to look up the truth.
Such a wonderful and effective concept that survived the test of time.
You have to appreciate the level of skill required to be able to pull off such a cunning and deceptive practice.
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mpd
Lammen Gorthaur



Registered: 10/22/12
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Patlal]
#18980616 - 10/15/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Amen
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: mpd]
#18980652 - 10/15/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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it used to be legit, but then the fakers/deceivers began to study the real politicians, those who really meant what they said, and they were able to copy them and do/say exactly what they said and did, and thus were able to reach high office. in a way it is almost like an antichrist, one who only acts but does not do.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: mpd]
#18980656 - 10/15/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The masses are easily manipulated--you don't have to be smart to be a politician, just enough of a psychopath to not care about manipulating people.
Though I will admit, some of the political theorists have been pretty clever in pioneering some of the currently tried and true methods of social/political control.
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gzuf
٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶



Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 6,535
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Patlal]
#18980677 - 10/15/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah politics is crazy. Leverage, backroom deals, demographics, votes, image, the modern day politician is a person with a machine behind them. I think politics is pretty badass to be honest, I like reading about the wheelin' and dealin' they go through it would be so cool to be a fly on the wall in these debt negotiations. I wonder if they still try to be PC and speak in broad statements like in public, doubt it. Like how the senate stabbed Cesaer in Rome, can you imagine that shit? Politics.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: gzuf]
#18980776 - 10/15/13 10:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure that when you take the cameras away that politics is a vicious, blackmailing, backstabbing, bribing and dangerous profession
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mpd
Lammen Gorthaur



Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 9,660
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Patlal]
#18980827 - 10/15/13 10:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm sure you are right. They are like a bunch of ants on a matchbook floating down the river, each one knowing he is in charge of where the boat is going.
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: zZZz]
#18980904 - 10/15/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: it used to be legit, but then the fakers/deceivers began to study the real politicians, those who really meant what they said, and they were able to copy them and do/say exactly what they said and did...
When was this? I've read contemporary books on the corruption of politicians in ancient Greece, if there was ever a non-corrupt politician it must have been in prehistory.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Patlal]
#18980914 - 10/15/13 11:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Politics: Trying to convince people to see things your way using the media and ambiguous statements, hoping that only a small and silent minority will take the time to look up the truth.
Such a wonderful and effective concept that survived the test of time.
You have to appreciate the level of skill required to be able to pull off such a cunning and deceptive practice.
That's only the highest-level politics. Real nitty gritty politics (that lead up to that high-level shit) is truly tedious and invariably complex. -Grassroots community organization, to get like-minded city councils -To enact city/county-level proposals to better the area -To get officials elected to state congress as delegates -So that those state delegates can draw the congressional districts -So that parties can get the congressmen/women they want in office -So they can gain majorities in the House, allowing fresh members more experience -So they can run for senate, gaining that majority, and more experience, -So they can have the resume for President.
Shits legit. At EVERY level, fought tooth and nail.
has been forever, and the country just moves on. I keep an ear to the chatter in the background, but focusing on it is tiresome and ultimately fruitless
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Dr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?



Registered: 09/09/08
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#18980990 - 10/15/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: The masses are easily manipulated--you don't have to be smart to be a politician
True, to be a politician you just have to be a good actor. But the people behind the scenes, the advisors and speech writers, they need to be smart. Manipulating millions of people isn't easy. There are too many variables to account for.
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Lynnch
Strangerer



Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,855
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: memes]
#18981067 - 10/15/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
memes said: ...has been forever, and the country just moves on. I keep an ear to the chatter in the background, but focusing on it is tiresome and ultimately fruitless
I feel much like this. Both sides say opposite things, whatever they think they have to say to sway public opinion; but at the end of it all noone knows what is going to happen, or even what is the truly right course of action. Just a couple weeks ago people were saying that there was no way the republicans would actually allow a shutdown, now here we are. Before that, everyone was sure the president was gonna say screw congress, we're gonna bomb syria, then we didn't. 
It is fascinating though. I like state and local government because, even if it's usually tedious, actual tangible stuff gets done there. You can send a letter to a local newspaper and change the outcome of city planning...
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Repertoire89]
#18981269 - 10/15/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
zZZz said: it used to be legit, but then the fakers/deceivers began to study the real politicians, those who really meant what they said, and they were able to copy them and do/say exactly what they said and did...
When was this? I've read contemporary books on the corruption of politicians in ancient Greece, if there was ever a non-corrupt politician it must have been in prehistory.
All throughout history we have that one special soul who stands for what is right and goes all the way to fulfill his vision. One good example would be Abraham Lincoln, a real politician. Anyone who has ever legitimately lead a crowd to true victory can be considered a real politician. Ghandi was real politician, Martin Luther king was a real politician, John f Kennedy was a real politician, the list goes on all the way back to Jesus Christ. All good examples of leadership. Most successful politicians now simply wear the masks of these great leaders. They talk the talk but don't walk the walk. And why should they?, true politicians lead us to freedom, the fake ones want to keep us fenced in like cattle, with the occasional sweet talk to keep us in idleness.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: zZZz]
#18981292 - 10/15/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: One good example would be Abraham Lincoln, a real politician.
Abe lincoln ignored the northern states who still had legal slavery when he issued the emancipation proclamation, to make it a north vs. south thing, thus not alienating his northern slavery-allowing compatriots.
(this is heresay, i heard it from someone). so yeah, true politician (dont outlaw slavery! outlaw slavery in the south!)
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: memes]
#18981324 - 10/15/13 01:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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They would have killed him sooner had he done so. He was just buying more time.
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Lynnch
Strangerer



Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,855
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: zZZz]
#18981372 - 10/15/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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They had been inducting states into the union on a slave state vs non slave state basis for a long time before the emancipation, attempting to keep some kind of balance of power in congress (while simply dividing the country into two camps).
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: zZZz]
#18981462 - 10/15/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm skeptical about those four names given, the only one I'm optimistic about is MLK who happens to be the one I haven't studied. Overall its just an opinion, but someone being a politician or having political influence indicates to me either
or
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NWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Repertoire89]
#18981570 - 10/15/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If politicians listened to their citizens on every issue we would be even more fucked than we are.
I am pretty cynical about human nature though
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: NWlight]
#18981606 - 10/15/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
NWlight said: If politicians listened to their citizens on every issue we would be even more fucked than we are.
I am pretty cynical about human nature though 
Not sure that they don't, in my opinion the "leaders" of society are nothing more than an extension of the zeitgeist, even when they attempt to control others they're still guided by predictable social / biological instincts
Could be wrong doesn't matter anyways
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NWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Repertoire89]
#18981614 - 10/15/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think we are in an entitlement epidemic.
Quote:
When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic
-Benjamin Franklin
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Lynnch
Strangerer



Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,855
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: NWlight]
#18981772 - 10/15/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think that's a silly opinion pretending to be a truism. We got together one day and said "Hey, if we all put a little in the pot, we can buy ourselves something nice" That's not entitlement, that's the essence of government. The corporations get an economy to play with, the people get clean water and a fire department; we all throw some in, we all feel entitled to get some benefit back. What's so bad about that?
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NWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Lynnch]
#18981844 - 10/15/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lynnch said: I think that's a silly opinion pretending to be a truism. We got together one day and said "Hey, if we all put a little in the pot, we can buy ourselves something nice" That's not entitlement, that's the essence of government. The corporations get an economy to play with, the people get clean water and a fire department; we all throw some in, we all feel entitled to get some benefit back. What's so bad about that?
the problem is that fewer and fewer people are "putting a little in the pot"
and even fewer would, if given the choice.
just yesterday:
Walmart Shelves Emptied in Food Stamp Shopping Spree
Quote:
Louisiana officials are trying to decide what to do about a massive shopping spree by families on food stamps when a power outage lifted the caps on their spending cards.
Police were called to Walmart locations in Mansfield, La., and Springhill, La., on Saturday as shoppers cleaned out store shelves.
Springhill Police Chief Will Lynd said some customers were pushing more food than any household could store in a refrigerator and freezer.
"I saw people drag out eight to ten grocery carts," he said.
ignorant, greedy pieces of shit. without mommy government they would riot in the streets
go politicians, go police state! whoo! keep me safe from the heathens.
and thank god the people who are paying the bills agree with me
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Edited by NWlight (10/15/13 03:50 PM)
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Dr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?



Registered: 09/09/08
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: memes]
#18981966 - 10/15/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
memes said:
Quote:
zZZz said: One good example would be Abraham Lincoln, a real politician.
Abe lincoln ignored the northern states who still had legal slavery when he issued the emancipation proclamation, to make it a north vs. south thing, thus not alienating his northern slavery-allowing compatriots.
(this is heresay, i heard it from someone). so yeah, true politician (dont outlaw slavery! outlaw slavery in the south!)
You aren't wrong about that. He also suspended the writ of habeas corpus, and arrested american citizens without due process. Lincoln was a tyrant.
But I have to wonder if our union would have been preserved, and slavery ended without that tyranny.
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Lynnch
Strangerer



Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,855
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: NWlight]
#18982103 - 10/15/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are you saying that if a thousand dollars showed up on your doorstep you wouldn't spend it? Or that you've lived so comfortably and with enough opportunity all your life that you have no idea what true desperation is like.
It's funny that you should mention [I would assume you mean the rich/corporations as] those that "pay the bills" seeing as how often they are the one's scamming and knowingly cheating the country out of paying their fair share; all the while benefiting from system, economy, and society astronomically more than the general population does. A few people putting food on their plates is nothing compared to those who have rigged the system to make themselves rich.
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NWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Lynnch]
#18982250 - 10/15/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lynnch said: Are you saying that if a thousand dollars showed up on your doorstep you wouldn't spend it?
if cash was dropped in my mail slot I'd leave it in an envelope for a few days in case they came looking for it. what if they got the wrong address? (they clearly did)
Quote:
Or that you've lived so comfortably and with enough opportunity all your life that you have no idea what true desperation is like.
yup
Quote:
It's funny that you should mention [I would assume you mean the rich/corporations as] those that "pay the bills" seeing as how often they are the one's scamming and knowingly cheating the country out of paying their fair share; all the while benefiting from system, economy, and society astronomically more than the general population does. A few people putting food on their plates is nothing compared to those who have rigged the system to make themselves rich.
I think that there are good and bad people in all walks of life. all occupations every social strata every economic class.
As for who pays the bills:

-top 25% pays almost 90% of federal income taxes. you only have to make 70k/year to be in the top 25%.
top 5% pays 60% of ALL federal income taxes.
cutoff for 5% is only 161k/year
HALF THE COUNTRY pays less than 2% of the taxes. (not only that, half of people who file for taxes) the actual percent is likely much more.
so who is paying the bills?
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Edited by NWlight (10/15/13 05:19 PM)
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Lynnch]
#18982254 - 10/15/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lynnch said: We got together one day and said "Hey, if we all put a little in the pot, we can buy ourselves something nice" That's not entitlement, that's the essence of government.
In my opinion basic alpha / beta behavior is the essence and purpose behind government
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Dr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?



Registered: 09/09/08
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Repertoire89]
#18982389 - 10/15/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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since were busting out graphs
Looking at just income tax is lopsided because the super rich often make most of their money off capital gains which are subject to a significantly lower rate than earned wages.
who is paying the bills? the people who wake up every morning and go to work. that's who pays "the bills" in this country.
fuck the oligarchs we don't need them.
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Lynnch
Strangerer



Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,855
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: NWlight]
#18982611 - 10/15/13 06:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
NWlight said: HALF THE COUNTRY pays less than 2% of the taxes. (not only that, half of people who file for taxes) the actual percent is likely much more.
so who is paying the bills?
All that says to me is that HALF THE COUNTRY is taking 87% (most) of the income, while leaving the other half with so little that it would be an injury to take more from them. Who do you think is paying for that income?
None of that was really my point anyway, I was pointing out that it's the rich and powerful that benefit the most from the system, it follows that they should pay the most.
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NWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
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Re: Politics - Such a beautiful science and art [Re: Lynnch]
#18983753 - 10/15/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
the rich and powerful that benefit the most from the system, it follows that they should pay the most.
and they do. No problem with that.
Quote:
HALF THE COUNTRY
are lazy
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