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Mr. Wilson
experienced weiner rubber



Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 1,977
Loc: Weinerville,
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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yep--its all really just yalls own personal spin on things after you get good and know what has to be done--yeah adaptation that's it--im thinkin about doing something different myself--hey malicom how did that cordyceps project turn out--those things are cool
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Edited by Mr. Wilson (10/14/13 03:25 PM)
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,338
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 4 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: violets tek anyone? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
#18977134 - 10/14/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey Mr Wilson
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Sillyputty67

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 2,239
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: violets tek anyone? [Re: Stromrider]
#18977172 - 10/14/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cordyceps are in stasis ATM. Just cs4 on agar is as far as ive gotten. Too many projects. lol
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
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Mr. Wilson
experienced weiner rubber



Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 1,977
Loc: Weinerville,
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: violets tek anyone? [Re: Stromrider]
#18977263 - 10/14/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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sup man--hey I see that load a wood in ya sig--them gas powered splitters are nice aint they--lol---I only got me a go devil
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Edited by Mr. Wilson (10/14/13 03:53 PM)
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Mr. Wilson
experienced weiner rubber



Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 1,977
Loc: Weinerville,
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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heck yeah--do you know of anybody else that's fruited them under lab conditions--can it even be done--
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InTheBiggun
The Milk-Man



Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 200
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Tubs, trays, logs, bags, jars, plasic containers, outdoor beds, cakes, bulk-cakes, cased-grain, invitro, dub-tub, mono-tub, cased, uncased... it doesn't so much matter how you got it done, but the end result, is to grow some fungi.
Personally I get bored if I grow in the exact same manner, to a recipe, every time... but thats just me.
Its good to know as many ways of getting it done as possible, because sometimes your not in your ideal scenario and you just might just need to improvise.
To that end I've experimented with all kinds of materials from my local area and surroundings. Everything from starting spores on local seeds, to using plants/leaves/roots as sub-material, forest manures etc.
Its definitely good to experiment.
There's no way that is better than the rest, other than personal preference at the moment. Coming against ways of growing like bulk (as anne keeps doing)to promote another way of growing is the wrong approach in my opinion. It just pisses people off to be openly mocked (Amish turd farmers, etc), when all their doing is growing some damn shrooms.
As far as people demanding Anne show some proof of her claims of superiority of TEK... that's classic in the OMC. When people have made huge claims, others have always asked to see the pics to back up the talk. Its just how online forums work...
Most people actually don't care and will continue growing in whatever way they feel like at the moment.
Edited by InTheBiggun (10/14/13 04:03 PM)
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Sillyputty67

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 2,239
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: violets tek anyone? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
#18977308 - 10/14/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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This is getting off topic, but you cant fruit cs4 period. Its purely medical mycelium. However we all got the AM strain of militaris k12, which is their most prolific fruiter. Many people have fruited it, and there are even some threads here of militaris being fruited invitro, on liquid culture, and on rice cakes.
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,338
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 4 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: violets tek anyone? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
#18977318 - 10/14/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Wilson said: sup man--hey I see that load a wood in ya sig--them gas powered splitters are nice aint they--lol---I only got me a go devil
Yeah man I love my splitter. I've had it about 2 years. I used to get pretty buff in the winter but not anymore
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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My intent has been and is to show what Malicom points out - the differences aren't as major as the emotionally-laden peeps are acting as if. Malicom though I think you missed a few axial matters you definitely got the heart of it straight.
Ya see anne, part of our hope is to clear the Us/Them perceptions that have strangely formed around these things. It really doesn't help when you use us/them terms too if not first.
My other and main intent is to show what a melded perception of this all looks like.
Actually I'm surprised people have started thinking it's being made about Frank vs Violet, I sure never gave anyone that impression and Frank hasn't either at least publicly. Thing is just what I said above, and that's all.
Maybe interpersonal things could flow a bit more smoothly if I shared a few things. Why not?, since it's pretty well on-topic and seems called for enough. As my signature now says.... We here are all, wittingly or un-, purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. I'm here to act like it. I've been at home myco for longer than I've had my account here, so before I had the words of anyone other than RogerRabbit I had met "the plant teacher" or I suppose more accurately the mushroom teacher. As great of a surprise as it has been for me, I've come to realize that many people online here may have not yet and thus do not understand what I mean by the mushroom teacher. If only it were possible for me to say with certainty, "as cultivators of this magnificent sacrament you shall surely meet it soon." But perhaps you won't.
The mushroom teacher inspired and helped me think beyond what science as yet has determined, also the very true nature of science. Our avenue of mycology isn't even delegated to official science so we have yet only what we can determine for and amongst ourselves. Why would anyone become so rigid about this matter, then? I'm still often confused about this. You see, I likely didn't come here with the same attitude/energy about this as many of you, and merely a similar not identical reason. I learned to grow better and built my perspectives well here, never on any other forums, but it wasn't long before my inclinations & the underlying nudge of the mushroom teacher, not to mention no small part of failures with certain teks regardless of my sterile skill, told me I could do better. Why, with seemingly perfect sterile practise (I don't see contams from my own handling, only other people's prints etc.), did I have such a failure rate?, despite even making up my monos in sterile airflow? Trying to fix it from every variable I and others imagined, it was necessary to conclude it was simply due to having uncolonized substrate in unsterile environs. If I could grow effectively using just my sterile practise, I could do it near perfectly, instead of 50% failure rate with hither-tither size of successes.
I found no such thing on Shroomery so started to look elsewhere. I found nothing of aid, except once a single picture of Anne Halonium's on another forum using ziploc plastic containers to colonize and water grain subs. Having seen so much as I already had that was close to different parts of it, my mind went wild, and in no time I knew and grew fully the Violet tek before first meeting & talking with Anne, learning the casing layer trick from her, or trying grass seed/brown rice. I think this is why she had her part in naming it after me, because in a sense she did show it to me but also I taught it to myself (with a different spin) from just a small hint. I came to her not with procedural questions but with ones such as "how much can these do?" to determine the success of my culturing.
It was so clear and simple to me!, the clarity of which I attempt to share with you all here but that sometimes goes misunderstood. My failures and their losses were due to destroying the grain sub's colony in attempt to colonize heat-treated water in unsterile conditions, instead of hydrating my successfully grown-out subs with tap water.
It's clear from the PFtek on that we can hydrate colonized subs with untreated water, so really there was nothing new about that. But for the first time it began to strike me as odd that we used materials for the sole purpose of holding water despite that we'd immediately dunk the substrate (PFtek) and ultimately that we'd even take the extra (dangerous) step of colonizing new substrate just for water. From this angle, bulk substrate seemed not like a necessity but as a roundabout route to providing enough water to flush-out the majority of nutrition in 1 flush, disregarding any "negative" aspects that ultimately go unrealized - and like all roundabout routes, it cost more gas. Gas being energy/electricity, water, time, work, just to put so many eggs in one vulnerable basket & turn the effectiveness and successes of my hard sterile tech work to the wind.
With violet tek I sterilize only the grain substrate that carries the grow, and provide water essentially the same way we all do except during flushes instead of between them! With less work, water, sterilization, & substrate than PF-tek I yield mono-size results! Provided culturing & real understanding of the water dynamic, of course. Once I saw it I could not unsee it, and nobody can tell me that my experience doesn't occur.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Sillyputty67

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 2,239
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: violets tek anyone? [Re: Violet]
#18977654 - 10/14/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I bottom water my straw cakes, even while they are flushing, just like in violet tek. They are still in the bottom portion of the bags. This makes the shroomies huge.
On a side note, a little neglect tek, and i had a shroom 3/4 the size of my arm. I didnt snap a pic, but it was 11 grams dry. woot.
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
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InTheBiggun
The Milk-Man



Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 200
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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RGS is nothing new as a sub, neither is PP5 plastic as a container. That leaves the fertilizer which the juries still out as to whether it actually improves over not having any.
The whole dissing of bulks, replete with specific attacks on "bovine excrement" , when in actuality equine/horse manure is the best there is..is pathetic and unhelpful.
Attacking another way of growing like Anne does, especially something as broad as bulk growing, in all its permutations, is simply foolish. Especially given the fact he/she is religiously trying to convert "peeps" away from bulk grows and into all-cased-grain grows.
Since its Anne's tek, invented by Anne... this is why I involve Anne in Violet-Tek statements.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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The first thing religious zealots do is accuse other religious zealots of being wrong about their religious zealotry. It's stupid.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
InTheBiggun said: RGS is nothing new as a sub, neither is PP5 plastic as a container. That leaves the fertilizer which the juries still out as to whether it actually improves over not having any.
QFT
Regardless of the benefits fertilizers may or may not have on improving yields, their production has a very negative environmental impact and just by purchasing them you are supporting corporations that don't give a shit about our environment, public health and in some cases the damage to the ecosystem they are inflicting through genetically modifying plants to withstand the pesticides they also produce. And as an added bonus, all that extra fluoride generated during the fertilizer production process is getting pumped into our public drinking water!
But if none of that bothers you, go ahead and continue shitting on the planet and your fellow man. As long as your yields don't suffer I guess that's all that matters
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Quick WBS Prep
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Re: violets tek anyone? [Re: FooMan]
#18980594 - 10/15/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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In addition to Foo's comments, one should realize that organic plant foods are a natural byproduct of mushroom metabolism. Mushrooms digest solid waste and leave behind plant foods. This is why plants are always greener near mushroom patches.
It's much like the way we digest solid foods and excrete fertilizer from where the sun doesn't shine. This doesn't mean eating excrement is going to benefit us in any way. Ditto for mushrooms. When we read that mycelium uses nitrogen in its metabolism just as nearly all life forms, it means that it needs to be digested from solid food. Mushrooms don't absorb usable nutrients from non-organic sources. They're just not wired that way.
This silly argument has been going on for years with noobs. Ten or so years ago I offered a free microscope to the first person who could grow a real hydroponic mushroom on inert materials fed with chemical 'ferts' only. A quick search will reveal all the threads that started with everyone going to prove me wrong and do it. Not a single person ever pulled it off, so this talk about 'ferts' is bunk not supported by science or experience. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Amelia Rose
Fungi Friend


Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 61
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If you purchase cereal, canola oil, soy products, anything processed, you are supporting gmos. Farms use millions of tonnes of chemical ferts a year. Anyone with a lawn is adding to environmental problems from the gas and oil used in your lawn mower. When compared to the examples above, a couple tablespoons of ferts that a few growers use are pretty insignificant. Miracle grow perlite supports these gmo companies but I see folks recommending it all the time. Just seems a little hypocritical.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Of course there's nothing new about these materials. The same thing could have been said when the first monotub tek was shared. It wasn't the materials or the general use that was novel but the arrangement of materials and procedure. So your point there is really a non-sequitur "duh."
Quote:
InTheBiggun said: equine/horse manure is the best there is
The best there is? Then we should be able to grow from it alone, yes? ... But we can't. It's for hydration purposes. What can we grow from alone? Grains, and what else? Grains. Grains are the best there is. You don't ever grow without grains.
As I said above, I also wish Anne would cut the colorful and derogatory terms for bulk sub and bulk growers. It doesn't help anything, and the exact techniques used for bulk-sub growing are required for species that she doesn't grow. But that doesn't change that it's an unnecessary material to achieve the yield capacity of one's grains with Cubensis, thus it's not necessary to heat-treat all that mass of water and cross one's fingers while colonizing it. Grow however you want, of course - it's not necessary to grow so it's not necessary to grow in any particular way at all either. But this doesn't change the facts of the matter.
As for the ferts/environment thing; I've heard those points before and they have some validity, but you're clearly densifying the issue with other problems caused not by ferts but by man. For instance, can ferts be blamed for government & corporations dumping flouride into drinking supply? As much as you may want it to artificially strengthen your point, it cannot. Only people that do those things are responsible.
That is a bit ironic of a pitch coming from those living a first-world GMO life and bashing one tek to purvey another that can be shown with simple scientific math (think "specific heat") to require 4-10 times the amount of energy to prepare, not to mention all the excess water.
You see, these things can be spun all kinds of ways. My choice is no spin. Laying it on thick with the emotionally-laden and very unknown/unclear epistemic matters doesn't help anything nor indicate an honest approach to the matter.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Mushrooms don't absorb usable nutrients from non-organic sources. They're just not wired that way.
If this is what I was saying happens, your statement would be applicable to it. However I figured you would know by now this isn't what I say happens, in fact I've agreed with you about this several times.
What hasn't been factually touched on is if bacteria take up these elements and make them into organic sources with the same metabolic cycles of life that we know happen between mycelium and bacteria in nature. Not only is there no indication that they do not (that I have found), but there's some evidence to suggest they in fact do!
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: This silly argument has been going on for years with noobs. Ten or so years ago I offered a free microscope to the first person who could grow a real hydroponic mushroom on inert materials fed with chemical 'ferts' only. A quick search will reveal all the threads that started with everyone going to prove me wrong and do it. Not a single person ever pulled it off, so this talk about 'ferts' is bunk not supported by science or experience. RR
Then you again make the mistake of thinking this is that same "silly argument". I'm not here to claim your microscope. Most of your statement is inapplicable to what I'm actually talking about. The attempts & experiments you mention truly have nothing to do with this. I'm not here saying you can grow mushrooms with just fertilizer, in fact the pitch isn't that mycelium have anything directly to do with the ferts so "This talk about 'ferts' is bunk not supported by science or experience" isn't recognizing what "this talk about ferts" even is. The grains are still the only substrate involved - they're 'pre-fermented' after a prep with ferts for the very point of changing it from original form into one mycelium can use. There's no way to make the experiment you mention test for this, since you can't get that fermentation in "inert materials fed with chemical ferts only".
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (10/15/13 10:17 AM)
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
Amelia Rose said: If you purchase non-organic cereal, canola oil, soy products, anything processed, you are supporting gmos. Non-organic Farms use millions of tonnes of chemical ferts a year. Anyone with a lawn is adding to environmental problems from the gas and oil used in your lawn mower but that doesn't mean we should contribute to the problem if we can avoid it. When compared to the examples above, a couple tablespoons of ferts that a few growers use are pretty insignificant but are also unnecessary for mushrooms which goes back to avoiding contributing to the problem if it can be avoided.
Edited that a bit.
Quote:
Miracle grow perlite supports these gmo companies but I see folks recommending it all the time.
Just seems a little hypocritical.
It would be hypocritical if I didn't try to be environmentally friendly in other ways. I would never recommend anything made by Miracle Grow, although I'll admit I have in past years when I was ignorant about their practices. I wouldn't include me in with those "folks". Mowing your lawn and driving to work are unavoidable. Buying chemical fertilizers from corporations like Monsanto is a choice. I choose not to for the reasons already stated.
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Quick WBS Prep
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InTheBiggun
The Milk-Man



Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 200
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: violets tek anyone? [Re: FooMan]
#18981134 - 10/15/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The best there is? Then we should be able to grow from it alone, yes? ... But we can't. It's for hydration purposes.
Horse manure the best manure for Cubensis? Yes, I believe it is among the best. This is why I asked the question of why Anne always disses "bovine turd slingers" and never mentions equine dung...I was joking around.
But seriously though, i've seen you say a few times that manure cannot be used alone to fruit Cubensis.
Why can't we grow on horse manure alone?
My last 50 grows were nothing but horse manure, with and without verm and they fruited awesomely with only a small amount of spawn added. Is your point that 100% by itself , no spawn of any kind added it's difficult to get mycelium going on it ?
I believe you are incorrect when you state horse manure can't fruit Cubensis (or other species like Pans)by itself. What's wrong with a bit of spawn in the mix anyways ? If it's 95% horse manure and a small bit of spawn of some sort ... why do you not consider that horse manure fruiting ?
BTW that spawn doesn't have to be grain of course. It can be anything from crumbled/colonized horse manure to shredded/chipped plant stalks like Cannabis , Garlic , Knotweed etc , colonized egg-carton cardboard blended to a slurry ... and a million other things.
Edited by InTheBiggun (10/15/13 12:42 PM)
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Amelia Rose
Fungi Friend


Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 61
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Re: violets tek anyone? [Re: FooMan]
#18981354 - 10/15/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't know anyone who uses ONLY organic everything. I guess you do, and that is great, I wish everyone did.
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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what a crowd, what a crowd, i even see bigguns, my favorite sock puppet bucketeer. glad they didnt ban ya, ya have unreal moxy........
and its good your here also bigguns, since im often misqouted, or distorted.
some clarity , and some notes.........
first of all, we have been using fert as ADDITIVES, in various grain subs and grain/ starch based agars for fungi.
the only thing weve grown on pure fert agar is cacti. all fungi fert agars have always had grains also.
my premise has always been simple 2 fields , one with cows , one without , side by side. for the most part, the cubes will be in the cow field. why? basidiomycota are known for being sub picky. its not the turds they seek, or they would be all over human sewage plants. they are seeking nitrated grass.
others have suggested , its not a turd boomer, but a nitrated grass shroom also. research that concept.
yes, ive seen the papers, that show some fungi are nitrate averse. and yes, most ascomycota are nitrate averse......... however, basdiomycota, asomycota, not the same thing.
it would seem, if anything, cubes, are nitrate hunters. do they live off only nitrates?, of course not. but, they like nitrates IMO, like americans love salt and fat in food.
do i endorse a brand? no. ill tell ya what i use though if peeps ask as disclosure. i like stuff that replicates a good stiff nitrate piss of cows.
in my testing over 25 yrs, we have used many types. they all are not equal.
also, as far as the " hydro shroom", these things drink from a BRF/fert slush.

define the phenomenon as you will.
IMO , anything else drinking from a trough, and ,sitting on a non nute sub, is...........
i suppose peeps will debate this until i publish the entire tek. and, then debate it more.
those things can be scaled BTW.
as for plastics, anyone in the loop has known for decades some plastics survive PC . only in the last decade, have plastics become cheap and plentiful enough for the masses. therefore i promote them for the obvious reasons.
the informed readers, also realize, and ,i often give credit, that to a good degree, v-tek, is similar to " oss and oeric" it is, except peeps have access to way better equip these days, and more data/ experience on stuff. therefore, its a super update sorta.
blue lights, i use em. i used tubes, now i use blue light. my entire cactus and fungi/ entire place , is 100% LED now. if i said i didnt grow by LED id be lying.
almost every last thing i do, has been documented, somewhere on the web in pictures. ( all the micro work ups, as i dont show scale) almost of of it,can be replicated with some skill, and at reasonable cost. literally anyone, can replicate my work and see for themselves. hence, my teks and variants, all over the web.
at no point , have i ever presented , anything i do as the final word.
i merely present the dyanmic grow teks, for the urban grower, using modern equip. (fungi)
(cactus, im" hydro loph girl incarnate", but, thats another forum.)
interesting to see the turnout on the v tek. makes ya wonder what peeps still got coming.
as far as rogers microscope. no one is gonna show ya a 10g boomer on PURE fert water. on that, we can concur. however, on NPK/grain flour/ agar slushes?
i have plenty of scopes w/ cams, and ,i noticed your careful wording in that challenge. your scope, shall remain safe. however, anyone betting against new forms of water/nute/ grain subs, is due for some surprises .
final note, peeps reading my stuff, read my actual words in context. my detractors are famous for making me larger than life. thx.
stay tuned.
Edited by anne halonium (10/15/13 02:27 PM)
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