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Invisiblemillzy
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Registered: 05/12/10
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
    #18972786 - 10/13/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

koods said:
Th entire point of atheism is to not be bothered with all these silly ideas that people invent without any evidence

Don't you find it somewhat ironic that you seem to be demanding that the one group defined by their lack of religious belief be required to be educated about all the religions of the world. If they are based on supernatural beliefs, they are all bunk. I don't need to know the specifics of their bunkery.




ironic? no. but i find it funny that there is a rather loud voice in the religious conversation that is represented by people who know very little, if anything, about religion. let me ask you this: how seriously do you take young-earth creationists who espouse disbelief towards evolution in the scientific conversation? my answer to that question is not at all, and the reason is because young-earth creationists' rejection of evolution is drawn from a belief system that fosters ignorance of evolution (and science in general). and like young-earth creationism, the tenets of new atheism are drawn from a belief system that fosters ignorance of religion. in both conversations both camps are charging into battle with their helmets on backwards, blindly hacking at anything that gets in their way. while science and religion are different games with different sets of rules and goals, a finer point i might add that is missed by both young-earthers and new atheists, ignorance equals ignorance in both cases.

knowing specifics about any given subject helps us formulate more nuanced and generally better opinions about that subject. the problem here is not disagreement but rather baseless disagreement. new atheism presupposes that religion is bullshit but it fails to demonstrate why. in fact, by conceding that religion is indeed a force for good in the world, new atheism contradicts itself. if religion shall be ultimately judged by its effects, as new atheism seems to be primarily concerned with, and those effects - bad and good - are fairly weighed, then religion cannot be proven to be bullshit as new atheism presupposes, even if those effects stem from beliefs that are downright silly.

koods, i like you even though we disagree on this subject. and because i like you, i'd like to recommend this book to you. prosthero argues from a comparative rather than devotee standpoint. it's well written, accessible and balanced unlike dawkins' and dennett's propaganda. read it. you just might learn something.




as an addendum to my remarks, i would also like to ask another question: how useful is new atheism as a worldview? as koods expressed, "the entire point of [new] atheism is to not be bothered with [religion]", thereby dwelling in ignorance of religion. but how useful is religious ignorance in dealing the world? knowing the difference between shia and sunni muslims seems to be vital information for soldiers, military leaders, politicians and the public who supports them through their votes. ignorance of those differences could determine life and death for the soldier, success or failure for the military leader, and the productiveness or counter-productiveness of foreign policies as enacted by politicians via the will of the people. so if we consider this one example out of many when success in confronting the problems of the world is necessarily contingent on understanding religion, it must follow that new atheism is not only a useless worldview but also a monstrously irresponsible worldview. it is indisputable that religion has been and continues to be a major component of the world. therefore religious ignorance, as stephen prothero says in "god is not one" (see link above), like any other form of ignorance, only renders the world less safe.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


Edited by millzy (10/13/13 04:09 PM)


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OfflineMorphinTime
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
    #18972833 - 10/13/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What is new atheism?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #18972920 - 10/13/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Has anyone heard of this?  Some guy has had a 10,000 cash prize available if anyone can provide him a piece of evidence of a god or supernatural powers.  It has been like 40 years and no one has collected.




Are you talking about James Randi?  I don't think he's offering $10,000 for just a single piece of evidence that God exists, since almost anything depending on the context can be potentially considered to be evidence for the existence of God.  :lol:

Now, as to actually convincing, worthwhile evidence for the existence of God... that's an entirely 'nother matter.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinetripp23
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: MorphinTime] * 1
    #18972931 - 10/13/13 04:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

"We were sent to hell for an eternity; we play on earth to pass the time."  That's hands down, my favorite quote I've ever heard.  Why?  Because it has so much meaning.  Think about it.  We could have liven a life before this, something else, something way different or better or whatever it was.  We've done wrong in that life so we were sent here.  "Some kind of purpose, a glimpse of a light in this void of existence". 

Why here?  Think about it deeper.  One day, you just pop into existence.  You slowly grow up and begin to remember your life and who you are.  You finally figure out how evil the world is and corrupt people are.  But most of all, you realize......  "Where the hell am I?  I just randomly pop into existence in a random time in a completely random place and I have no recollection of how/why/who/what/where/when I am..  And every time I try to figure something out, it disappears and gets replaced by even more of a mindfuck."  For example, think of how people used to think the world was flat.  Then we discovered it's a ball.  But in what?  Space.  How far does space go?  Never ending?  Why?  The cycle never ends.  So we can never truly figure anything out with out it becoming a great problem or we can't figure out why were here or even how we got here!?..

Forced to live without our consent from birth (whether we like it or not). Trapped in a mortal body that feels pain.  All we have is our own thoughts.  How do we know if reality is not just a projection/hologram?  We have no answers to anything for no reason.  Nobody else may be conscious but you; is a scary thought.  A physical world.  Trapped in a random universe for the rest of eternity.  The universe is a never ending void of darkness.  If anything, life is the thing to be afraid of.

Are you afraid of hell?  I am.


--------------------
Experience my nightmarish first time of smoking Ganja!



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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: MorphinTime]
    #18972934 - 10/13/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MorphinTime said:
What is new atheism?




i would categorize new atheism as that which pertains to ideas expressed by thinkers like dawkins, hitchens and dennett. new atheism is distinctly different than the ideas of older thinkers like freud because, unlike freud, it thrives off of religious ignorance and tends to diminish religion's importance in world affairs.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


Edited by millzy (10/13/13 04:41 PM)


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: MorphinTime]
    #18973020 - 10/13/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MorphinTime said:
No?



definitely a rhetorical question


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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OfflineMorphinTime
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
    #18973050 - 10/13/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
i would categorize new atheism as that which pertains to ideas expressed by thinkers like dawkins, hitchens and dennett. new atheism is distinctly different than the ideas of older thinkers like freud because, unlike freud, it thrives off of religious ignorance and tends to diminish religion's importance in world affairs.





Thanks for clarifying.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
    #18976103 - 10/14/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

MorphinTime said:
What is new atheism?




i would categorize new atheism as that which pertains to ideas expressed by thinkers like dawkins, hitchens and dennett. new atheism is distinctly different than the ideas of older thinkers like freud because, unlike freud, it thrives off of religious ignorance and tends to diminish religion's importance in world affairs.




You should watch this interview with Dennett, but if you don't watch the entire interview, watch at least the part starting at 19:30 or so where he discusses the biological basis for religious belief. He certainly does not sound like he's diminishing religion's importance. In fact, what he is saying is that we don't know enough to say that getting rid of religious belief would be good at all.



Oh dear, at 33:40 dan Dennett calls for the compulsory education of world religions in schools. 

Anyone who listens to this interview will see that the description of new atheists in this thread is completely off base. I was going to call the portrayals "caricatures," but that word implies there is at least a resemblance to the truth. :cookiemonster:


Edited by koods (10/14/13 01:26 PM)


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: koods]
    #18976967 - 10/14/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:

Anyone who listens to this interview will see that the description of new atheists in this thread is completely off base. I was going to call the portrayals "caricatures," but that word implies there is at least a resemblance to the truth. :cookiemonster:




lol, we'll see about that. but i will watch your video and give you my thoughts afterward. thank you for that even though you had to go back and edit your reply to insert a little jab.  :tongue:


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #18977009 - 10/14/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I am proof rich kid, obviously.


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: UnholyChild666]
    #18977032 - 10/14/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

you're obviously richer then anyone here.


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18977043 - 10/14/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

despite none of you proving it.


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: UnholyChild666]
    #18977054 - 10/14/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

you're richer in ass butter then the rest of humanity.



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InvisibleUnholyChild666
I'M GOD
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18977059 - 10/14/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I am a walking perfection there's no misunderstanding that you can honor my beauty by stop masturbating it creates a ruckus in heaven. - God


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: UnholyChild666]
    #18977068 - 10/14/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

by "a ruckus in heaven", do you mean "more fat bodies"?


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18977081 - 10/14/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

rich kids can't reproduce they get their kids from the gods and it certainly doesn't happen through masturbating or molesting yourself as a child through spiritual separation.


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: UnholyChild666]
    #18977096 - 10/14/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

when i masturbate, i know it's just God touching me. i'm ok with that.


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
I'M GOD
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18977101 - 10/14/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'd rather let you get raped by me in hell then find out what masrurnation is in life.


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: UnholyChild666]
    #18977121 - 10/14/13 03:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

dude, you're the one touching all the little children. you should really get that checked out, oh great deity.


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
I'M GOD
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18977130 - 10/14/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

basicaly but if god does none one cares especialy sense I morph into a child to do it, no crime.


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth


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