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Offlinedstark
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Substance Analysis Kits: Test your plants and drugs! * 7
    #18972044 - 10/13/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)



Found this on the DmtNexus forum, seems like a pretty cool project, basically identifying alkaloids with TLC! There is a quick vid btw.
Quote:

TLConscious said:
Hello everybody,

We were about to make a thread but noticed someone already did that! (Thanks for spreading the message btw :smile: )


We are the harm reduction non-profit organization that have developed the mentioned substance analysis kit.

Our kits are ready, we have already sent around 10 beta versions to some users around the world to give us feedback and do adjustments. We are currently in crowdfunding phase to gather money for purchases of bulk material to assemble the kits. You can check it out here: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/substance-analysis-kits-down-with-adulterants

You can check out a video of how it works in this link above!

Basically with a certain donation (150e), you will get the full kit, or smaller donations can get you t-shirts or the simple color tests reagents like marquis etc. So it`s sort of like pre-ordering, except it`s safer because the indiegogo website gives you full refund if we do not reach our established Goal and cannot make bulk purchases.


As an example of some questions the kit could be used to potentially answer:
- Does this plant contain DMT (or another alkaloid of interest)?
- Which of these weed plants or hash samples has more THC/CBD/etc ?
- Do these mushrooms contain psilocybin ? Which of these shrooms are more potent?
- Is this acid really acid or is it DOx/Nbomes/Bromodragonfly ?
- Is this MDMA mixed with something else?
etc etc


Feel free to ask any question you might have regarding the organization and the kits!


Thank you very much!  Wish you all some safe tripping :laugh:





http://www.anoniem.org/?http://igg.me/at/tlconscious/x/4788503
As stated in the donation site:
Quote:

Short Summary

For several years, the people responsible for TLConscious have been involved in harm reduction work through online information, in situ work, education, and drug analysis in festivals and events, and presentations at international research conferences.

One of our main projects is a combination of analyzing psychoactive substances and their adulterants, and educating people to help reduce the risks of consuming these substances. While we can work directly with people in some cases, such as music festivals and similar events, we are unable to reach the millions of people around the world that do not attend these particular events and are therefore unable to make use of our work. This means that many of these people might be unknowingly poisoning themselves with unknown adulterants, or consuming plants that contain toxic substances.

We have developed a substance testing kit that anyone, even those with no scientific background, can use in the privacy of their own home. This kit allows a person to analyze the composition of any substances or plants they have and check for contaminants or adulterations.  Our kit  is NOT like the simple colorimetric reagents found around the world, which can only indicate the presence of the main compound, but cannot differentiate multiple substances or indicate if there is a potentially deadly mix of compounds. The TLConscious kit provides a more comprehensive and thorough analysis of any substance in question. 

The kit can also test plants when looking for specific compounds, which can be of great use to botanical researchers.

By funding TLConscious' campaign, you will potentially help save lives, or at the very least, prevent harmful intoxication by dangerous and/or unknown substances.

Prototypes of the TLConscious analytical kit have already been shipped around the world and used with success.






Well there are lot of kits available online but this one can be used to identify variety of alkaloids:thumbup:
They need to raise 20 thousand in order for this to happen so chip in if you can and think its a good thing.


Edited by dstark (10/17/13 10:19 AM)


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Offlinedstark
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: dstark]
    #18973999 - 10/13/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Seems like someone chipped in:)
What you guys think of this project? It will be a shame if it doesnt happen, this makes any drug testing so easy.


--------------------
What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered?

~I Feel
:mushroom2:
at Home~


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OfflineGodfather1376
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Registered: 07/07/13
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: dstark]
    #18974151 - 10/13/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I definitely see how this is useful for many substances and instances, but with shrooms or L that you would purchase I don't think this is necessary. Shrooms on a erhlich kit is obvious and I highly doubt that someone with 25i blotters would give trace amounts of legitimate L on the paper just in case his customers have erhlich kits, simply too much effort. As long as it's at a fair price though, I completely encourage people to support these guys.


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OfflineTLConscious
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Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 17
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Godfather1376] * 1
    #18975289 - 10/14/13 04:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hello everybody,

We were about to make a thread but noticed someone already did that! (Thanks for spreading the message btw :smile: )


We are the harm reduction non-profit organization that have developed the mentioned substance analysis kit.

Our kits are ready, we have already sent around 10 beta versions to some users around the world to give us feedback and do adjustments. We are currently in crowdfunding phase to gather money for purchases of bulk material to assemble the kits. You can check it out here: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/substance-analysis-kits-down-with-adulterants

You can check out a video of how it works in this link above!

Basically with a certain donation (150e), you will get the full kit, or smaller donations can get you t-shirts or the simple color tests reagents like marquis etc. So it`s sort of like pre-ordering, except it`s safer because the indiegogo website gives you full refund if we do not reach our established Goal and cannot make bulk purchases.


As an example of some questions the kit could be used to potentially answer:
- Does this plant contain DMT (or another alkaloid of interest)?
- Which of these weed plants or hash samples has more THC/CBD/etc ?
- Do these mushrooms contain psilocybin ? Which of these shrooms are more potent?
- Is this acid really acid or is it DOx/Nbomes/Bromodragonfly ?
- Is this MDMA mixed with something else?
etc etc

Feel free to ask any question you might have regarding the organization and the kits!


Thank you very much!  Wish you all some safe tripping :laugh:


Edited by TLConscious (10/14/13 06:06 AM)


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
    #18975774 - 10/14/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Wow, that looks really good. I don't have the money myself at the moment, but I forwarded this to one of my favorite harm reduction organisations.


--------------------
Stand up. You're not alone.


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Offlinedstark
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #18975839 - 10/14/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

•After you reach the goal(fingers crossed) for how much ones could buy a kit?
•Does a kit is a single use kit or for few times(till the "liquids" run out)?


--------------------
What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered?

~I Feel
:mushroom2:
at Home~


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: dstark]
    #18976016 - 10/14/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

That's really goddamn expensive for what you need to run TLC.

If you guys just do a little reading (JoePedo has a good thread on the Flasks & Beakers forum at Zoklet) you can put this kit together for pocket change.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineTLConscious
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #18976409 - 10/14/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dstark said:
•After you reach the goal(fingers crossed) for how much ones could buy a kit?
•Does a kit is a single use kit or for few times(till the "liquids" run out)?




The kit will cost around 150e if we get the goal money, but if we get significantly more than the goal, we can probably make it cheaper as we can make a bigger bulk purchase and get discounts. Or, if we start selling and there is a big volume of sales, we can start giving discounts and sending gifts to people who bought at the earlier price. This is all hypothetical if it works out as it should :smile:

While most material is reusable, with the kit you get plates and reagents enough for 50+ tests. Then you can buy replacement plates and reagents which will end up costing 1e per test more or less.



Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
That's really goddamn expensive for what you need to run TLC.

If you guys just do a little reading (JoePedo has a good thread on the Flasks & Beakers forum at Zoklet) you can put this kit together for pocket change.




Its not so simple as you write, I think.

Where are you going to get cheap 254nm and 365nm UV lights, plates, microcapilaries, reagents, eluent, plus information on identifying those substances with your particular system, all of this for under 150e?

How many people can find all of that easily and put it together the kit themselves?
And how are they going to identify substances ?

One main advantage is that our organization has access to legal standards and gc/lc-ms analysis as a confirmation to our tests and therefore greatly helps in setting the TLC system. We write down identification information on all sorts of substances of interest, personalized for our system. If any novel substance appears, we can more easily work on getting standards and making personalized adjustments to the kit and help people identifying such substances.

We`re not trying to scam anybody or have unreasonable high prices for profit. We`re asking the fair price for a one-of-a-kind service and product which we have been working on for at least two years, finding a way to making a powerful testing kit for people, even those without chemical knowledge and confidence to prepare DIY TLC plates.  Also we offer information that would be unavailable to others without access to legal standards. We really believe this is a unique opportunity that a lot of people would greatly benefit from.

With that being said, I would applaud your efforts if you prepare TLC system yourself and test your substances and of friends, or plants in your environment. The more the better :smile:

We are considering setting up a space on the website, where people can upload their test results and we would display, kinda like ecstasydata webpage. We could add warnings when dangerous substances are identified.

We also thought that for those exploring plant material, for example natural psychedelics, we could make a database where you could sort plants by geographic location in a map, or by species name, or by alkaloid content,  and then people could also add their own tests, for example when someone finds DMT in a new plant, etc.  So we would have an updated map of psychoactive plants and tests made by people with the kit.

There`s a LOT of cool ideas we can think of if a good ammount of people have these kits and share their results.


Edited by TLConscious (10/14/13 12:40 PM)


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
    #18976455 - 10/14/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I doubt your "potency test" for psilocybes is very accurate.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
    #18976514 - 10/14/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TLConscious said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
That's really goddamn expensive for what you need to run TLC.

If you guys just do a little reading (JoePedo has a good thread on the Flasks & Beakers forum at Zoklet) you can put this kit together for pocket change.




Its not so simple as you write, I think.

Where are you going to get cheap 254nm and 365nm UV lights, plates, microcapilaries, reagents, eluent, plus information on identifying those substances with your particular system, all of this for under 150e?




Ebay. And I'm assuming you're buying in bulk, which would make it even cheaper. I'm not sure about the lights, but I've pieced together a TLC kit for $20 before. A regular blacklight let me see my spots.

Quote:

How many people can find all of that easily and put it together the kit themselves?
And how are they going to identify substances ?




I have no sympathy for laziness. All this info is out there, but no it's not terribly easy to find.

As for a sample to compare against, get one known pure sample (clean it yourself if you have to), run a plate and keep that for reference.

Quote:

One main advantage is that our organization has access to legal standards and gc/lc-ms analysis as a confirmation to our tests and therefore greatly helps in setting the TLC system. We write down identification information on all sorts of substances of interest, personalized for our system. If any novel substance appears, we can more easily work on getting standards and making personalized adjustments to the kit and help people identifying such substances.




That part's pretty cool, but I think it jacks the price up so high that the average person won't buy it.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineTLConscious
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: FrankHorrigan] * 2
    #18976535 - 10/14/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
I doubt your "potency test" for psilocybes is very accurate.




It`s in no way an absolute quantification, but rather relative to some control.

For example, say you are growing two kinds of shrooms, and you want to know which one is more potent, and how their potency compare to each other...

So you would get a weighed sample of both, dissolve in same amount of extraction liquid, and load that to the plate. And to make it better, you do two or three different dilutions of each (for example 1ml extraction liquid per 0.1g of material, then twice as concentrated or half as concentrated).  Then you run the plates, and look at the spots. The size of spots are relative to amount of substance, so if the batch A has a spot the size of the the spot from the half-dilution of batch B, you know that it is more or less half as strong.

You won`t know an absolute value but it`s very useful to compare batches for potency. This can serve also for example if you have taken from one batch, and then the next batch you test against it, so you will know if it`s stronger or weaker and be able to adjust dosage more or less accordingly.

To have an even more accurate way which would give reasonable absolute numbers, one would need a standard, so things are more complicated, but we might be able to work in the future to send a printed page with the size of the spots depending on concentration so that people can visually compare and have a crude percentage estimation.

Again, a lot of possible areas of development, which can be directed depending on feedback from people getting the kits and what they are interested in testing :smile:

By the way, if you have a better way of doing crude estimations or comparisons of psychoactive compound content, please let us know, we are very interested :smile:

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:

Ebay. And I'm assuming you're buying in bulk, which would make it even cheaper. I'm not sure about the lights, but I've pieced together a TLC kit for $20 before. A regular blacklight let me see my spots.





I cannot find all the items in ebay cheaper than 150e. Plus remember not everybody is from the US, in other countries there can be even less availability of materials. Also, a regular black light will not let you see all the spots, I guarantee you. Just few substances will shine with long wave light, that`s why we send both long wave and short wave.

Quote:

I have no sympathy for laziness. All this info is out there, but no it's not terribly easy to find.

As for a sample to compare against, get one known pure sample (clean it yourself if you have to), run a plate and keep that for reference.




It doesn`t necessarily have to be about lazyness, some people are just intimidated by it or they use their time with something else.... Just like not all people will look into growing their own food or building their own computers or making their own clothes. Sometimes we preffer things ready to use and we delegate the expertise to someone else that can simplify things so we use them in our context without spending so much effort in it.

We feel that harm reduction-wise, people who are making their own TLC kits and have access to standards are probably anyways not the ones we should be worrying about ingesting adulterated substances. But as mentioned, I still think it`s great if you can do it and spread the knowledge to others about it, you got our full support!

Quote:


That part's pretty cool, but I think it jacks the price up so high that the average person won't buy it.




Yeah we understand with such prices, the number of people who can get it is limited. Again, all we want is to offer it cheaper so as many people as possible would buy it, and we are open to any suggestion of cheap bulk suppliers. As mentioned, we have been for the last two years working on it, contacting many suppliers, testing different eluents, types of light, plates, amounts, etc, and we have not found anything cheaper and more practical than we have.
Also notice we are not thinking of producing 7 billion kits, we`re thinking of purchasing material for 250 or 500 kits for a world wide market, and seeing how it goes from there.  Hopefully this is enough to reach an crowd that can make the bridge between the more dedicated psychonauts who are very informed and willing to investigate testing methods, and the normal users who just want to know whats in their substance.

Hope that explains a bit more how we are trying to position ourselves.

Thanks everybody for the feedback! Questions, criticism, and different points of view are always welcome since it helps us adjust our project :smile:


Edited by TLConscious (10/14/13 01:25 PM)


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
    #18976592 - 10/14/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I look forward to this SAK.

Question, Can it differentiate between Psilocin and Psilocybin?


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OfflineTLConscious
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: StygianKnight]
    #18976623 - 10/14/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yes it can :smile:


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
    #18977069 - 10/14/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-layer_chromatography

For anyone wanting more info on TLC.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Offlinefapjack
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Posts: 16,574
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: dstark] * 1
    #18978193 - 10/14/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You can make those kits for like pennies, where the hell did you pull the 20k from?  The chemicals are cheap as fuck and the bottles are like a buck or less.


--------------------


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Offlinedstark
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: fapjack]
    #18979214 - 10/14/13 10:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Have you guys tried ordering bulk from china? You can order chems for really cheap but it has to be in metric tons or hundreds of kilo.


--------------------
What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered?

~I Feel
:mushroom2:
at Home~


Edited by dstark (10/14/13 11:05 PM)


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OfflineTLConscious
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: fapjack]
    #18979908 - 10/15/13 03:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
You can make those kits for like pennies, where the hell did you pull the 20k from?  The chemicals are cheap as fuck and the bottles are like a buck or less.




I wish that was true :smile:  I think maybe you are confusing with the simple color reagent `kits`, which is NOT the same as we are providing..


The real number is 18k, because with indiegogo and paypal taxes there`s already 2000 euros missing. As for the 18k value, it is to purchase the material for the first 250 kits, pay for tests and development and setting up of the organization. Just so you have an idea of some of the costs:

65 boxes of 10x50cm f254 merck TLC plates - 5000e
250x leuchtturm 254nm UV lights - 4600e
250x leuchtturm 365nm UV lights - 1500e
Lawyer for help with official papers, setting up the organization, consultancy and tax work for the year - 1000e

Just out of these 4 items, that`s already 13k euros. This is not including: Eluent, Microcapillaries, eppendorfs, pasteur pipettes, jars, reagents, 2000 bottles and labelling, packaging and design plus 2 years of investment and work with hundreds of plates worth of tests, having access to standards and so on.

We have tested many other sources of lights, including several cheap china suppliers, and the lights are much worse than from that particular company. 

We have also considered buying the bigger 20x20cm plates and cutting it ourselves for cheaper plates but we have not found a way to cut bulk amounts of them in a clean way. Either it took too long, and/or some of the silica started peeling off the plate after cutting and storing, or cutting was not as straight as we wanted so it affected the layer rising. So small plates are much more convenient and clean. Also we decided for Merck plates since they are guaranteed high quality and they are the same as we have been using for all the tests, and it has to be the special plates with UV fluorescence indicator to visualize all spots.

Maybe the explanation helped you see some of the real costs we have. If you have any suggestion on how to reduce these costs, we are very open to your words! The money is not to make ourselves rich but to provide a unique product and service to the world.  Also remember we are an official non-profit organization, we are bound by law to explain all our costs and income, and this goes into the association account which we cannot use for personal purposes.

Have a good day :smile:


Edited by TLConscious (10/15/13 05:51 AM)


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Offlinegushtunkinflupped
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious] * 1
    #18980178 - 10/15/13 06:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This is fucking amazing! You guys, his is NOTHING like the rinky dink 20$ kits out there. I don't think some of you really understand the true usefulness of this.

Support this project!!!!


--------------------


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Offlinerikuni

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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: gushtunkinflupped]
    #18980195 - 10/15/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

...


Edited by rikuni (03/16/14 05:17 AM)


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
    #18980330 - 10/15/13 07:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've never heard about TLC testing before, sounds really interesting.  Is a big step up from just using a marquis, good luck.


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