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InvisiblehTx
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Psychedelics * 1
    #18970887 - 10/13/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Which came first..

The human, or the psychedelic?

Why do we have the receptors in our brains which allow psychedelics or any drug for that matter to take effect?

It seems that drugs were specifically designed for human intake, proven by the fact that we are their greatest consumer and producer.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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OfflineGreySatyr
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: hTx]
    #18970900 - 10/13/13 02:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that the universe is psychedelic so the universe came first and that means psychedelic came first. That also means humans are psychedelic.


--------------------
...also, go to hell, huh?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: hTx] * 1
    #18970916 - 10/13/13 02:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

It seems that drugs were specifically designed for human intake




What it appears to you has zero bearing on fact.

Who 'designed' these chemicals and what evidence do you have for such? That's right - you got nothing.


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OfflineOgreLokon
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18970939 - 10/13/13 02:27 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

It seems that drugs were specifically designed for human intake




What it appears to you has zero bearing on fact.

Who 'designed' these chemicals and what evidence do you have for such? That's right - you got nothing.




The evidence is that God loves us, wants us to be happy, and gave us the means to expand our minds to their full potential. If prehistoric apes didn't come down from the trees to eat those mushrooms, we'd still be hiding from ground dwelling predators.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OgreLokon] * 1
    #18970949 - 10/13/13 02:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:braindamage:  I'm surprised humans can survive using such "logic".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18970950 - 10/13/13 02:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well that is the question..my conclusion that drugs are specifically designed for human consumption comes from prevalent evidence of drug use specifically by humans alone.

No other animal actively seeks and uses drugs.

Terence Mckenna may have been on to something with his stoned ape theory.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: hTx] * 1
    #18970952 - 10/13/13 02:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Well that is the question..my conclusion that drugs are specifically designed for human consumption comes from prevalent evidence of drug use specifically by humans alone.

No other animal actively seeks and uses drugs.

Terence Mckenna may have been on to something with his stoned ape theory.




Other animals do use drugs. Alcohol is a drug. My cat actively sought out and used catnip.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOgreLokon
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: Icelander]
    #18970958 - 10/13/13 02:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

hTx said:
Well that is the question..my conclusion that drugs are specifically designed for human consumption comes from prevalent evidence of drug use specifically by humans alone.

No other animal actively seeks and uses drugs.

Terence Mckenna may have been on to something with his stoned ape theory.




Other animals do use drugs. Alcohol is a drug. My cat actively sought out and used catnip.




...and elephants purposely seek out fermented fruit. Sharks relax in high O2 ocean water. The only creatures that demand to be sober, are the ones that want to control what everything else does.

I used to be a committed Agnostic, but then life happened, and I learned more about what it takes life as we know it to flourish. I REFUSE to believe that the inner ear evolved without outside help. Look it up. It is NOT random chance that we know which way up is.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OgreLokon] * 2
    #18970961 - 10/13/13 02:42 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If you refuse to believe something then your mind is shut.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: Icelander]
    #18970972 - 10/13/13 02:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

hTx said:
Well that is the question..my conclusion that drugs are specifically designed for human consumption comes from prevalent evidence of drug use specifically by humans alone.

No other animal actively seeks and uses drugs.

Terence Mckenna may have been on to something with his stoned ape theory.




Other animals do use drugs. Alcohol is a drug. My cat actively sought out and used catnip.



Animals stumble upon drugs in the wild and consume them mostly by accident, as is the case with alcohol consumption of animals in the wild. Your cat was introduced to catnip by none other than yourself.
Elephants and primates that seek out fermented fruit belong to 'higher' intelligence branches of the DNA life tree; further proving to myself atleast, that drugs were designed for intelligent whatevers to consume, for beneficial evolutionary reasons. If drugs are meant to be used by intelligent creatures, as seems the case, than what would that mean exactly?



why are there drugs which alter our consciousness in such profound ways and of which only humans have the ability to produce and consume on a regular basis?

It seems this is something we don't really ask ourselves..we just kind of get drugged up and happy they exist to begin with.

Maybe drugs exist for the same reason we find it awesome to see cats enjoying catnip. Or maybe they are little accelerator pads of evolution designed by DNA as such.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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OfflineOgreLokon
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: Icelander]
    #18970977 - 10/13/13 02:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I just can't see the inner ear coming about by random chance. It's too complex.


Edited by OgreLokon (10/13/13 02:58 AM)


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: hTx] * 1
    #18970978 - 10/13/13 02:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Which came first..

The human, or the psychedelic?

Why do we have the receptors in our brains which allow psychedelics or any drug for that matter to take effect?

It seems that drugs were specifically designed for human intake, proven by the fact that we are their greatest consumer and producer.





Why do we feel anything?  I suspect that many drugs work by copying or blocking the effects of chemicals that naturally occur in the brain :stoned:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: hTx]
    #18971003 - 10/13/13 03:17 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Actually my cat found it growing in a neighbors garden.  And I don't see how that supports your claim that only humans use these substances. You always do this it seems. You switch subject when confronted with evidence contrary to your claims. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OgreLokon] * 1
    #18971008 - 10/13/13 03:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OgreLokon said:
I just can't see the inner ear coming about by random chance. It's too complex.





So something can't be true because it doesn't seem possible to you?:lol:  Well that's a pretty typical human response towards their own lack of knowledge.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOgreLokon
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: Icelander]
    #18971013 - 10/13/13 03:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OgreLokon said:
I just can't see the inner ear coming about by random chance. It's too complex.





So something can't be true because it doesn't seem possible to you?:lol:  Well that's a pretty typical human response towards their own lack of knowledge.




Then explain your Atheisism


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OgreLokon] * 1
    #18971020 - 10/13/13 03:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OgreLokon said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OgreLokon said:
I just can't see the inner ear coming about by random chance. It's too complex.





So something can't be true because it doesn't seem possible to you?:lol:  Well that's a pretty typical human response towards their own lack of knowledge.




Then explain your Atheisism




Shouldn't your very lack of understanding be what prevents you from jumping to conclusions? I.e. I don't understand the complexity of the inner ear, therefore I'm not going to infer anything about it and will struggle to learn more and adjust my opinion over time.  Instead we have 'it seems complex' therefore someone must have designed it, like my iPhone that miraculously seems to work.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineOgreLokon
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18971025 - 10/13/13 03:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Quote:

OgreLokon said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OgreLokon said:
I just can't see the inner ear coming about by random chance. It's too complex.





So something can't be true because it doesn't seem possible to you?:lol:  Well that's a pretty typical human response towards their own lack of knowledge.




Then explain your Atheisism




Shouldn't your very lack of understanding be what prevents you from jumping to conclusions?




Et tu? (Isn't that what you're doing? /translated for the closed minded) Since when has jumping to conclusions ever been anything that a logic minded person does? Do you believe in aliens? That you can win the lottery? Faith has a place in this world. The laws of science were put in this universe billions of years before this planet was even formed. Something wrote those laws.


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OfflineOgreLokon
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: CosmicJoke] * 1
    #18971028 - 10/13/13 03:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Shouldn't your very lack of understanding be what prevents you from jumping to conclusions? I.e. I don't understand the complexity of the inner ear, therefore I'm not going to infer anything about it and will struggle to learn more and adjust my opinion over time.  Instead we have 'it seems complex' therefore someone must have designed it, like my iPhone that miraculously seems to work.




Exactly. Someone designed your iPhone. Someone designed a microscpoic maze in each side of your skull with even smaller pebbles inside them so that you you know directions besides down.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OgreLokon]
    #18971030 - 10/13/13 03:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, by fessing up that I'm still a student in this world that's trying to make sense of it, I've evaded the burden of having to rationalize how things must be because I very well may never understand them.  That's okay by me, why the pretense?


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineOgreLokon
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OgreLokon]
    #18971038 - 10/13/13 03:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OgreLokon said:
I just can't see the inner ear coming about by random chance. It's too complex.





So something can't be true because it doesn't seem possible to you?:lol:  Well that's a pretty typical human response towards their own lack of knowledge.




Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Yes, by fessing up that I'm still a student in this world that's trying to make sense of it, I've evaded the burden of having to rationalize how things must be because I very well may never understand them.  That's okay by me, why the pretense?




I didn't pretense anything. I said that here must be something beyond us that designed things to happen the way that they are.
Quote:

OgreLokon said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

It seems that drugs were specifically designed for human intake




What it appears to you has zero bearing on fact.

Who 'designed' these chemicals and what evidence do you have for such? That's right - you got nothing.




The evidence is that God loves us, wants us to be happy, and gave us the means to expand our minds to their full potential. If prehistoric apes didn't come down from the trees to eat those mushrooms, we'd still be hiding from ground dwelling predators.




SOMETHING gave us that gift. The ability to upgrade ourselves. To learn. To expand.


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: hTx]
    #18971049 - 10/13/13 04:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Well that is the question..my conclusion that drugs are specifically designed for human consumption comes from prevalent evidence of drug use specifically by humans alone.

No other animal actively seeks and uses drugs.

Terence Mckenna may have been on to something with his stoned ape theory.




“Animals are something invented by plants to move seeds around. An extremely yang solution to a peculiar problem which they faced.” ~ Terence Mckenna

...and so it would seem that psychedelics are the chosen mechanism
for passing instruction to the worker apes.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OgreLokon] * 1
    #18971182 - 10/13/13 06:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OgreLokon said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OgreLokon said:
I just can't see the inner ear coming about by random chance. It's too complex.





So something can't be true because it doesn't seem possible to you?:lol:  Well that's a pretty typical human response towards their own lack of knowledge.




Then explain your Atheisism





I don't have to because I'm agnostic. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OgreLokon]
    #18971184 - 10/13/13 06:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

SOMETHING does not have to equal god.  Just because things are does not mean they have to make sense on your level or they cannot be.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: Icelander]
    #18971694 - 10/13/13 10:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
SOMETHING does not have to equal god.  Just because things are does not mean they have to make sense on your level or they cannot be.



:thumbup:


--------------------
:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: hTx] * 2
    #18971712 - 10/13/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Which came first..

The human, or the psychedelic?

Why do we have the receptors in our brains which allow psychedelics or any drug for that matter to take effect?

It seems that drugs were specifically designed for human intake, proven by the fact that we are their greatest consumer and producer.




Well psychedelics are not the only drug that works on human receptors. Many many plants have some chemical that does, some poisonous, some not. I have often wondered how, for example, psilocybin exists in many species of mushrooms, and have come to the conclusion that it isn't that remarkable. There are so many plants that work on so many different receptors, a plant that contains a chemical similar to serotonin is not that remarkable, but just another work of chance (and if anything would have evolved to contain this chemical to prevent animals from eating the plant, not to encourage it).  We know that (among others) 5-HT(2a) and related receptor binding causes psychedelic effects, why - we don't know - but since serotonin is used in so many vital day to day bodily functions it would make sense that agonism of serotonin receptors causes interesting "non-normal" results.


--------------------
:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: Cyclohexylamine] * 1
    #18971883 - 10/13/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I think a lot of times people appeal to creative design because somehow "chance" lessens the awesomeness of everything. I disagree.

Anyway, to answer OP, I don't think it's sound to make claims of causation in this instance.


--------------------
full blown human


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: hTx] * 2
    #18972053 - 10/13/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

No other animal actively seeks and uses drugs.




Here we go again with you spouting erroneous 'facts'. Must we go through this in every one of your threads? How much will you wager that you are right?


--------------------


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #18972066 - 10/13/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:
I think a lot of times people appeal to creative design because somehow "chance" lessens the awesomeness of everything. I disagree.





Yeah -  I disagree too. It's kind of like evolution vs. intelligent design. The fact that everything evolved over time is quite fascinating - and much more incredible / awesome than some random guy creating it.


--------------------
:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: Cyclohexylamine] * 2
    #18972082 - 10/13/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Before time began there was an infinitude of gods. They interbred creating more and more powerful gods. Then one god got so powerful due to random evolutionary forces that 'he' wiped out all the other gods with a mere thought. Then he got lonely and had an emotional breakdown which we call the Big Bang.

True facts.


--------------------


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Psychedelics [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18972121 - 10/13/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Before time began there was an infinitude of gods. They interbred creating more and more powerful gods. Then one god got so powerful due to random evolutionary forces that 'he' wiped out all the other gods with a mere thought. Then he got lonely and had an emotional breakdown which we call the Big Bang.

True facts.




I am a god :mod:


--------------------
:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:


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