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Offlinefarmerofduck
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Registered: 07/22/13
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first grow 12 days after inoc
    #18968530 - 10/12/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The first pic is 8 days after I nocd up and the second is 12 days. I have them sitting on my window sill. Nothing special. Is there anything I can do to speed this up? The lids are tight and they have 4 holes for the inoc. Do I need more ge or more patience? 7/11 of my jars have growth but 2 are contams I think ill post later.







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OfflineTheGreenBox
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: farmerofduck]
    #18968561 - 10/12/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Good start. Mine looked like that maybe 5 or so days after inoculation. What temperature are you keeping them at?
No need to leave them in the window sill. I just put mine in a closet with a garbage bag around the box they were in. Kept at 23-25 degrees C during the day. Lids were on fairly tight but not super tight. Good luck!


--------------------
And in my darkest moment, fetal and weeping, the moon tells me a secret - my confidant. As full and bright as I am, this light is not my own and a million light reflections pass over me. Its source is bright and endless.

- Tool


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: TheGreenBox]
    #18968595 - 10/12/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

farmerofduck said:
The first pic is 8 days after I nocd up and the second is 12 days. I have them sitting on my window sill. Nothing special. Is there anything I can do to speed this up?



Not really.

Quote:

farmerofduck said:
Do I need more ge or more patience?



Most likely yes.

Quote:

TheGreenBox said:
No need to leave them in the window sill. I just put mine in a closet with a garbage bag around the box they were in.



Jars/bags/tubs/trays should colonize @ room temperature getting ambient/indirect light.

Main pinning triggers are full colonization, FAE and Evaporation off of the substrate.

Light is a secondary pinning trigger. For tropical species temperature is not a pinning factor.

Light has been proven beneficial during all stages of mycellium growth. Mushrooms like mammals have a circadian rhythm.

You want ambient/indirect light(on a 12/12 schedule preferably) for colonization and consolidation.

You want direct/intense 6500K light on a 12/12 schedule for fruiting.


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OfflineTheGreenBox
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18968676 - 10/12/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420  said:

Light has been proven beneficial during all stages of mycellium growth. Mushrooms like mammals have a circadian rhythm.

You want ambient/indirect light(on a 12/12 schedule preferably) for colonization and consolidation.

You want direct/intense 6500K light on a 12/12 schedule for fruiting.





^ Make sure to do that. For the last few days I've been giving my mycelium a 12/12 schedule of light with 6500K bulbs.


--------------------
And in my darkest moment, fetal and weeping, the moon tells me a secret - my confidant. As full and bright as I am, this light is not my own and a million light reflections pass over me. Its source is bright and endless.

- Tool


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Offlinefarmerofduck
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18968694 - 10/12/13 03:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

12 days just seems a long time to only have tiny spots of growth.  Maybe my substrate mix is off? What is the main factor for mycelium growth rate?


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: farmerofduck]
    #18968714 - 10/12/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've seen spores take up to 14 days to start even and turned out fine :shrug:


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Offlinefarmerofduck
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: TheGreenBox]
    #18968723 - 10/12/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm pretty much getting a 12/12 light schedule by sitting on the window sill, and between 75-80 degrees room temp.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: farmerofduck]
    #18968734 - 10/12/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

farmerofduck said:
I'm pretty much getting a 12/12 light schedule by sitting on the window sill, and between 75-80 degrees room temp.



:thumbup:


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Offlinefarmerofduck
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: rumfor69]
    #18968743 - 10/12/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rumfor69 said:
I've seen spores take up to 14 days to start even and turned out fine :shrug:




I'm not worried something is wrong, I'm just wondering how some people get full colonization in 2 weeks. I just wanna know why and what different conditions determine the different growth rates. Why do some take longer then others?


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: farmerofduck]
    #18968762 - 10/12/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

farmerofduck said:
Why do some take longer then others?



Multispore genetic crapshoot lottery syndrome.

It's a freaking mindfuck of epic proportions!


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18968765 - 10/12/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: farmerofduck]
    #18968805 - 10/12/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

farmerofduck said:
Quote:

rumfor69 said:
I've seen spores take up to 14 days to start even and turned out fine :shrug:




I'm not worried something is wrong, I'm just wondering how some people get full colonization in 2 weeks. I just wanna know why and what different conditions determine the different growth rates. Why do some take longer then others?




Also the short wide mouth 1/2 pint jars colonize quite a bit quicker than those tall ones. The tall ones usually take forever to colonize the bottom. Sometimes they stall out completely on the bottom but this may be due to people packing the substrate too tight when they loaded their jars. If you put your substrate in real loose you shouldn't have a problem. It may take a while though


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Offlinefarmerofduck
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: PussyFart]
    #18968866 - 10/12/13 03:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:
Also the short wide mouth 1/2 pint jars colonize quite a bit quicker than those tall ones. The tall ones usually take forever to colonize the bottom. Sometimes they stall out completely on the bottom but this may be due to people packing the substrate too tight when they loaded their jars. If you put your substrate in real loose you shouldn't have a problem. It may take a while though




Yeah I've read that a bunch. Well I didn't really pack it at all so hopefully the bottom won't be to much of a problem when it comes time.



Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Multispore genetic crapshoot lottery syndrome.

It's a freaking mindfuck of epic proportions!




Lmao, well thanks guys.


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Offlinefarmerofduck
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: Stromrider]
    #18968877 - 10/12/13 03:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:
Also the short wide mouth 1/2 pint jars colonize quite a bit quicker than those tall ones. The tall ones usually take forever to colonize the bottom. Sometimes they stall out completely on the bottom but this may be due to people packing the substrate too tight when they loaded their jars. If you put your substrate in real loose you shouldn't have a problem. It may take a while though




If it stalls and doesn't colonize the bottom will I still be able to fruit it?


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: farmerofduck]
    #18968891 - 10/12/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

farmerofduck said:
Quote:

Stromrider said:
Also the short wide mouth 1/2 pint jars colonize quite a bit quicker than those tall ones. The tall ones usually take forever to colonize the bottom. Sometimes they stall out completely on the bottom but this may be due to people packing the substrate too tight when they loaded their jars. If you put your substrate in real loose you shouldn't have a problem. It may take a while though




If it stalls and doesn't colonize the bottom will I still be able to fruit it?




Well let's hope it doesn't come to that and if you put the substrate in there really loose it probably won't. If it does stall on the bottom you can flip the jar and tap it on your palm to get it to slide away from the glass on the bottom and it will usually finish up. If you do flip a jar you have to leave it flipped though because you have disturbed your dry verm layer. This is a last resort option. You don't want to birth a cake that is not completely colonized


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Offlinefarmerofduck
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: Stromrider] * 1
    #18986770 - 10/16/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

16 days...


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InvisibleNecroMyce
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: farmerofduck]
    #18986999 - 10/16/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

whats the temp setting like you are holding those jars in. In about two weeks my jars were a little more then that. but it always varies


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Offlinefarmerofduck
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: NecroMyce]
    #18987570 - 10/16/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CaspuuuR said:
whats the temp setting like you are holding those jars in. In about two weeks my jars were a little more then that. but it always varies



Bout 80 degrees now


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Offlineaomoriakuma
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: farmerofduck]
    #18988231 - 10/16/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

it definitely varies, but id say youre on the right track!


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OfflineN2ocean
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: aomoriakuma]
    #18988314 - 10/16/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yea, i'd be patient, brf jars take a while.  I've had plenty of batches take forever, well over a month to colonize,  I've got a batch of golden teachers that's sooooo slow right now.  I inoculated them on 9/8 and they're about 2/3-3/4 done.  I have some ecuadors that i did on the same day that have been done for a couple weeks now, I gotta birth them but I'm lazy :tongue:  and I've got these in an incubator at perfect conditions and everything...  The other 1/2 pint jars were mentioned and in my experience i've had much better success and faster/more even colonization with the shorter wider jars.  I really suggest getting some of these for your next batch... Also, i've found that temps one of the biggest factors for colonization speed, you're reporting good temps, so not to worry, but if anything's gonna slow down growth, it's less than optimal temps.

Also, i'm guessing you got these spore syringes off a website.  Another thing i've experienced is super slow colonization from any syringe I order.  Make spore prints from this batch, and i like mine dark with spores :smile: and have found that these always colonize much faster!  Most websites put as few spores as possible in each syringe.  Granted you don't need a syringe black w spores, but it doesn't hurt if you have a good amount in them.

Patience, they are looking good so far... :thumbup:

p.s. you mentioned that some people claim 14 day full colonization.  meh, i've never had that w/ spore prints onto brf jars.  Even w Grain to Grain transfers 14 days is good...  Don't worry too much about not hitting these "benchmarks" that people claim.  most of them are exaggerated by at least a little bit anyway.


--------------------
---The mystics subjective experience of his identity with "the All" is the scientist's objective description of the ecological relationship of the organism/environment as a unified field - Alan Watts, The Joyous Cosmology  An excellent, rather short read here----


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Offlinesytar
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: N2ocean]
    #18988378 - 10/16/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

From what I understand from reading RR people keep their jars too warm because of that experiment showing best mycelial growth at 86 degrees. But that experiment used agar plates and the inside of the jars generated heat so people dropped the temp down to around 80-82 to capitalize on these optimum grow temperatures. If I recall correctly RR did some experiments using jars and found the jars started growing quite a bit slower around 82 degrees. Seems like more recent recommendations for jar temps tend to be around the mid 70s. Risk of contams also  goes up a lot around 80 from what I understand.


--------------------
I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.


Edited by sytar (10/16/13 09:30 PM)


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: sytar]
    #18988646 - 10/16/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've had 1/2 pint brf jars colonized fully in a little over 2 weeks before but they were the short wide mouth jars and they always colonized much quicker for me than those tall jars your using.

When I was doing cakes I would say my average was 3 to 4 weeks for the short wide mouth jars and 4 to 5 weeks for the tall half pints


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: farmerofduck]
    #18988927 - 10/16/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

farmerofduck said:
12 days just seems a long time to only have tiny spots of growth.  Maybe my substrate mix is off? What is the main factor for mycelium growth rate?




Did you boil all of these jars at the same time? Did you steam sterilize, or PC?

The bottom set of pictures looks really wet, and the top set looks good. If your growing Cubes, just expect to get on their schedule. They will grow when they are ready, they don't hurry up for us.

I like to get really into my growth cycle, put all of that energy into the sterility process, then get really into another hobby and forget about my jars, and bags. In a few weeks, you will be pleasantly surprised at how far along they have come.


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InvisibleNecroMyce
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: N2ocean]
    #18990287 - 10/17/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

N2ocean said:
Yea, i'd be patient, brf jars take a while.  I've had plenty of batches take forever, well over a month to colonize,  I've got a batch of golden teachers that's sooooo slow right now.  I inoculated them on 9/8 and they're about 2/3-3/4 done.  I have some ecuadors that i did on the same day that have been done for a couple weeks now, I gotta birth them but I'm lazy :tongue:  and I've got these in an incubator at perfect conditions and everything...  The other 1/2 pint jars were mentioned and in my experience i've had much better success and faster/more even colonization with the shorter wider jars.  I really suggest getting some of these for your next batch... Also, i've found that temps one of the biggest factors for colonization speed, you're reporting good temps, so not to worry, but if anything's gonna slow down growth, it's less than optimal temps.

Also, i'm guessing you got these spore syringes off a website.  Another thing i've experienced is super slow colonization from any syringe I order.  Make spore prints from this batch, and i like mine dark with spores :smile: and have found that these always colonize much faster!  Most websites put as few spores as possible in each syringe.  Granted you don't need a syringe black w spores, but it doesn't hurt if you have a good amount in them.

Patience, they are looking good so far... :thumbup:

p.s. you mentioned that some people claim 14 day full colonization.  meh, i've never had that w/ spore prints onto brf jars.  Even w Grain to Grain transfers 14 days is good...  Don't worry too much about not hitting these "benchmarks" that people claim.  most of them are exaggerated by at least a little bit anyway.




yeah usually mine take about a month to fully colonize or even get close. I ordered 4 different syringes online and the Penis Envy were about 80% within almost 2 weeks. Where as some of the other jars hadnt even shown any signs and some were barley sparking life. If i was impatient about the slow colonization usually ill just start another batch and to keep my attention span controlled hahad


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Offlinefarmerofduck
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: NecroMyce]
    #18990480 - 10/17/13 11:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the detailed reply. I got my syringes from THE maybe its slow because they're golden teachers? I'm gonna go out and try to find the wide mouth jars this weekend and use them on the next batch. I tried to find them before but they weren't in stock.


What's the next best and easiest tek next to pf? For jars not bulk...


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OfflineN2ocean
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Re: first grow 12 days after inoc [Re: farmerofduck]
    #18993051 - 10/17/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well if you have a pressure cooker, you could start on grain jars.  They can be inoculated w a spore syringe same as the brf tek.  Fruiting them is the more challenging part.  You can use your same SGFC as well.  Which i recommend at least starting out.  Read up some teks on grain, i wish i could give you some recent up to date ones, but most of the info from some of the older teks holds true. 

My preference.

Use rye, it's easier to get the moisture content right over wild bird seed.  Soak the rye for 24 hrs. then simmer for 20min to a half hour, and you'll have the rye grain at the right moisture to put in 1 qt jars. rye berries  that's where i get my stuff. amazon's the best, it's $30 w/shipping, so more expensive than wbs, but better and easier.  I'm sure you can find cheaper if you get it locally in store.

For fruiting you'll want to read up fairly heavily on what exactly fruiting entails, what causes the substrate to begin the fruiting process, and how you can mimmick these conditions.  *important research topic 

You won't have to use manure but you will be mixing your grain jars after they're fully colonized onto another substrate medium.  Commonly a mix of cococoir and verm.  You'll then have to wait for that to colonize and then you'll be placing this substrate in fruiting conditions.

I suggest in the beginning to mix your grain jars and coco/verm substrate in containers that will fit inside your current SGFC,  it won't require a huge amount of substrate and it's something you're familiar with.  If your current SGFC holds moisture well and causes your BRF cakes to fruit then it's a solid fruiting chamber and you don't have to worry about a constructing a bad "new" fruiting chamber. 

That's my advice for "moving on"  keep it as simple as possible, and stick to  as many familiar processes as you can.

For your response to golden teachers being slow,  personally i think they are. 

Also, I should probably have put this up higher because i think it's important:  Do at least 3-5+ more batches of BRF cakes.  Become familiar with the mushroom lifecycle, perfect your sterile techniques!!!!  keep researching all of this time about what you want to do next.  Don't rush things.  RR's videos mushroomvideos.org are really informative. 

Also, work with spore prints and creating your own syringes,  it will make you pay extra attention to sterility, save you money, and give you better syringes. It will also familiarize yourself with mushroom biology. Look up teks on how to properly capture a spore print!

Once you are comfortable doing the BRF tek and propogating a spore line, then I'd say start into grain teks.

hope this helps :grin:


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