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OfflineigCorcaigh
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The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol
    #18968479 - 10/12/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

OK, I'm just making a note on my experience of the subtle psychedelic effects of alcohol.

As some of you may know, I try my best at living up to the Irish stereotype. I like my beer.

And I've noticed, that it can have a certain effect, but only when taken to excess, or over a few days.

I used to find a boost in confidence, an opening of the mind, in the day after a heavy session. When there is still enough in your system to conquer the hangover. Great work done.

Now, why do I call this psychedelic, and not just drunk? Because I can perceive a certain quality of mind, a shift, that is kind of similar. Obviously not the same.

And does it not suggest, that the brain operates in a psychedelic way when anything nudges it out of the culturally-driven rut. Drugs, trauma, art, music. Anything.

So, maybe the psychedelic experience, as we call it, is an alternative brain state, that can be induced in many ways. For some people, it happens naturally.

I've heard stories about old men, they don't drink their whiskey, but just wet their lips, regularly during the day. And they see visuals.

Am I on to something interesting, or am I just drunk again?


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: igCorcaigh]
    #18968532 - 10/12/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

igCorcaigh said:
OK, I'm just making a note on my experience of the subtle psychedelic effects of alcohol.

As some of you may know, I try my best at living up to the Irish stereotype. I like my beer.

And I've noticed, that it can have a certain effect, but only when taken to excess, or over a few days.

I used to find a boost in confidence, an opening of the mind, in the day after a heavy session. When there is still enough in your system to conquer the hangover. Great work done.

Now, why do I call this psychedelic, and not just drunk? Because I can perceive a certain quality of mind, a shift, that is kind of similar. Obviously not the same.

And does it not suggest, that the brain operates in a psychedelic way when anything nudges it out of the culturally-driven rut. Drugs, trauma, art, music. Anything.

So, maybe the psychedelic experience, as we call it, is an alternative brain state, that can be induced in many ways. For some people, it happens naturally.

I've heard stories about old men, they don't drink their whiskey, but just wet their lips, regularly during the day. And they see visuals.

Am I on to something interesting, or am I just drunk again?




Maybe drunk, maybe onto something. I mean, alcohol does interact with GABA receptor action. Cannabis does the same thing (as well as CBD receptors of course), and people claim weed has psychedelic properties.

I think psychedelic is a very relative term that can change depending on the person and how the substance affects his or her own chemical balance.


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OfflineigCorcaigh
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #18968579 - 10/12/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks King. I know a little bit about GABA, and the inhibitory mechanisms in the brain.

I think what I'm trying to express, is that the psychedelic quality of mind can be induced by numerous mechanisms, suggesting that it may be a dormant state, inherent, right?

It's not just the 5HT-A or whatever, although that is highly effective. Isn't this an area for exploration? Maybe it might teach us something about the nature of alcoholism?

People might be trying to switch their brains back to a different way of working, using the culturally sanctioned tool, ethanol.


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: igCorcaigh]
    #18968591 - 10/12/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

igCorcaigh said:
Thanks King. I know a little bit about GABA, and the inhibitory mechanisms in the brain.

I think what I'm trying to express, is that the psychedelic quality of mind can be induced by numerous mechanisms, suggesting that it may be a dormant state, inherent, right?

It's not just the 5HT-A or whatever, although that is highly effective. Isn't this an area for exploration? Maybe it might teach us something about the nature of alcoholism?

People might be trying to switch their brains back to a different way of working, using the culturally sanctioned tool, ethanol.




The psychedelic quality of mind can certainly be induced by other mechanisms than 5-HT2 receptor action. I agree 100%.

One easy example of this is meditation. *waits for nicechristman to chime in*


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OfflineigCorcaigh
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #18968626 - 10/12/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Has anybody else experienced this with alcohol? Or am I prone to my own peculiar type of madness? Just throwing it out there. It is a subtle effect that I'm on about.

And doesn't my question also address the naivety of thought in pharmacology? Maybe the brain is not just reacting to receptors, it may be listening to them, other factors at work too.

My attempts at meditation have not been that fruitful King. Maybe I should try again.


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InvisibleMagicman69
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #18968633 - 10/12/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

He's at a gathering this weekend so don't wait up


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InvisibleMindDrips
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: igCorcaigh]
    #18968639 - 10/12/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:

I think psychedelic is a very relative term that can change depending on the person and how the substance affects his or her own chemical balance.



Quote:

igCorcaigh said:

And does it not suggest, that the brain operates in a psychedelic way when anything nudges it out of the culturally-driven rut. Drugs, trauma, art, music. Anything.

So, maybe the psychedelic experience, as we call it, is an alternative brain state, that can be induced in many ways. For some people, it happens naturally.




I agree with igCorcaigh to a good extent, and some of what you said as well, KingKnowledge.I think that the "psychedelic" experience is not necessarily tied to drugs alone, but also with music, art, philosophy, and many other things.

If you look at the origin and roots of the word "psychedelic," it's meaning is basically "of the mind." This implies that a psychedelic experience is any shift of consciousness from the "average" paradigm of mind, which can be induced by many of the cultural aspects I mentioned earlier. You can even have a psychedelic mind without taking any drugs whatsoever!

I think alcohol definitely does have slight psychedelic properties. It relieves you of inhibitions like marijuana, and many psychedelics, and allows me and a majority of people to speak their mind much more freely. I always feel much more of an altered mind when drunk or buzzed, and I think this actually can be considered a "psychedelic experience"!


--------------------
"Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind,
Seem to get lost and harder to find.
When I am alone I am inclined,
If I find a pebble in sand,
To think that it fell from my hand..."



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OfflineSomeGuyX
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #18968641 - 10/12/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Last night I was with a chick who normally doesn't drink or smoke, and she ended up doing both. She was already so drunk it was hard for her to stand, but then she smoked a bowl with us... Shortly after she started to panic, saying everything looked like a painting and she wanted it to stop. Keep in mind, she only took a couple small puffs off the pipe. She drank A LOT compared to how much she smoked.

So I don't know if this is too relevant, but... I guess she hallucinated a bit off of some weed and alcohol.


--------------------


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OfflineigCorcaigh
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: MindDrips]
    #18968696 - 10/12/13 03:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MindDrips said:

If you look at the origin and roots of the word "psychedelic," it's meaning is basically "of the mind."




And this is what I am pointing towards. It seems to me like any shock to the brain (psilocybin, trauma, maybe enough ethanol) has the potential to reveal the psychedelic aspect of mind.

I've been used to thinking like Drug X causes effects X. But, maybe that's a crude approximation. And if we can resolve this, it could help us treat alcoholism drug addiction, etc.

Is what we all the "psychedelic" a way of brain activity that was once the norm, but now dormant. And maybe the body is attempting to get back to that? Leading to alcoholism, drug addiction, and all sorts?

Maybe. But then again, I just might be drunk again.

Thanks for your input.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: igCorcaigh]
    #18968725 - 10/12/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I think alcohol when used properly can bring out some pretty profound states of mind. Ie, i've got social anxiety and it can reduce that to the point where i can freely interact with people and see that i am 100% capable of being a social being. I think the problem comes with amnesia/lack of coordination/lack of inhibition. I think they tend to take away most of anything gained from the experience leaving you to conclude you were "just drunk." Whereas psychedelics have a level of clarity that allows those messages to persist after the experience. Just IME.

I've recently been noticing the profound psychedelic aspects of weed as well lately. Not just the visual parts i've always had, but truely psychedelic experiences. These past few days i've taken up toking again after a bit of a break and have had some pretty wild experiences. One showed me exactly how a perfect world would look. It's so bizarre and hard to explain, but it was just an intense visualization of how to conduct human interaction so that we can all be happy. Almost like watching a whole bunch of dogs run around in a park of unfamiliar dogs and being totally friendly and open and sociable with all of them.

The other is this weird mind shift where it will take a belief i am firm in and give me a deep understanding of the opposite perspective. Almost to the point where i dismiss my own beliefs, but then it shows me my side too. Hard stuff to explain, but other drugs certainly have qualities of psychedelia that we often overlook

Quote:

igCorcaigh said:

Is what we all the "psychedelic" a way of brain activity that was once the norm, but now dormant. And maybe the body is attempting to get back to that? Leading to alcoholism, drug addiction, and all sorts?

Maybe. But then again, I just might be drunk again.

Thanks for your input.




I actually think that's a really interesting point and I sort of agree with it. It brings me back to the point about the dogs. When my gf walks through the door her dog lunges up and attacks her with the kind of enthusiasm and love that you just don't see in any human being. Even if she was only gone for 5 minutes. It's like every little simple happy thing lights its world up. I feel like we're that way when we're kids. They say we're born like scientists. Every little bit of life interests us. Unfamiliar things create very exciting new atmospheres and bring about this emotion that seems long lost to us now because the world beat it out of us as we grew up. I remember when i was a child, even getting a new video game just had this level of awe that i can't reach nowadays without being on drugs.


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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: igCorcaigh]
    #18968745 - 10/12/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well. I had an addiction counselor explain somehow that the effects of alcohol for an alcoholic are very different than that of a non alcoholic, more of an LSD type effect is what she said. I have been asking counselors about my experience with alcohol, as I am very much a recovering alcoholic, and my experiences have been extreme, and have been trying to understand wtf happened. basically auditory and visual hallucinations more vivid than you would believe from alcohol, went from horror, bloody knives and worse, until right before I went to rehab, the visions changed, for about two weeks, I was basically in a strong strong lsd like trip (not really, just using it as an example), where the visions were more beautiful, numbers running down the walls, globs of gridlike patterns, basically I believe it was an opening of the veil, and the best answer any addiction counselor has given me yet, was that I was dying basically, and witnessing my death. which I know wholeheartedly to be true, alcohol should not be underestimated, theirs nothing more terrifying in my experience than full blown alcoholism. be careful.


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OfflineigCorcaigh
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #18968751 - 10/12/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Jackson you have expressed something that I am unable to express, and the words fit precisely. This is what I am trying to point at, I'm just not articulate enough. Thank you.


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InvisibleMindDrips
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: igCorcaigh]
    #18968760 - 10/12/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

igCorcaigh said:
And this is what I am pointing towards. It seems to me like any shock to the brain (psilocybin, trauma, maybe enough ethanol) has the potential to reveal the psychedelic aspect of mind.

I've been used to thinking like Drug X causes effects X. But, maybe that's a crude approximation.




I used to think that certain drugs have specific effects too, which they do to some extent... however, I find that no matter the chemical, if it is mind-altering at all, can bring the mind to a psychedelic headspace.
An example of this can be found in an article that I read somewhere (I cannot seem to find it again) that described how a study found that many Native Americans did not have a preference between actual cactus with mescaline and synthetic 2C-B. They said that it brought them to the same place, the realm of their ancestors, and that it did not matter that it was synthetic.

Quote:

igCorcaigh said:Is what we all the "psychedelic" a way of brain activity that was once the norm, but now dormant. And maybe the body is attempting to get back to that?




As for this, I watched a video (linked here) where Alexander Shulgin, around 6:30 in the video, talks about natural psychedelic receptors in the brain. He describes that his theory as to why there are not psychedelic compounds natural in our body already is because in order to survive, humans must be coherent and alert enough to survive in dangerous situations. However, the compounds exist in nature for us to learn from when we take them.


--------------------
"Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind,
Seem to get lost and harder to find.
When I am alone I am inclined,
If I find a pebble in sand,
To think that it fell from my hand..."



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OfflineigCorcaigh
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: solo11]
    #18968774 - 10/12/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

solo11 said:
Well. I had an addiction counselor explain somehow that the effects of alcohol for an alcoholic are very different than that of a non alcoholic, more of an LSD type effect is what she said. I have been asking counselors about my experience with alcohol, as I am very much a recovering alcoholic, and my experiences have been extreme, and have been trying to understand wtf happened. basically auditory and visual hallucinations more vivid than you would believe from alcohol, went from horror, bloody knives and worse, until right before I went to rehab, the visions changed, for about two weeks, I was basically in a strong strong lsd like trip (not really, just using it as an example), where the visions were more beautiful, numbers running down the walls, globs of gridlike patterns, basically I believe it was an opening of the veil, and the best answer any addiction counselor has given me yet, was that I was dying basically, and witnessing my death. which I know wholeheartedly to be true, alcohol should not be underestimated, theirs nothing more terrifying in my experience than full blown alcoholism. be careful.




Wow, dude. That is an amazing experience to reveal. Alcohol is certainly a dangerous drug. But it effects us differently. Not just the brain, but the narrative of an individuals life can effect how it operates. So many things going on. Very interesting.


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OfflineGreySatyr
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: MindDrips]
    #18968781 - 10/12/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I feel like psychedelic states can be attainable in several ways and they typically come easier when intoxicated on any substance. However I wouldn't ever call alcohol psychedelic or even subtlety. It's our minds that are psychedelic. The state of intoxication helps make it. Same as meditation really in some cases.


--------------------
...also, go to hell, huh?


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: Magicman69]
    #18968817 - 10/12/13 03:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Magicman69 said:
He's at a gathering this weekend so don't wait up





Guess I'll have to do some talking for him! Well, not that I know what he thinks about it, but I just feel like I need to praise meditation a bit :smile:

I was depressed for a while. I had mild depersonalization (self-diagnosed) and was feeling pretty demotivated/tired of doing the same stuff every day. Then I started meditating. It allowed my mind to reset, changing my mood from mediocre at best to lovely. I've done daily meditation for around 100 days now.

But back on topic....:lol:

In some of these 100-someodd sessions, my meditation does induce psychedelic effects. Over these 100 days, I have done psychedelics twice, and both at moderate doses (150-200mics of some WoW). I feel like the psychedelic effects of meditation were increased during the days following these experiences, but I have been able to provoke a "trip-like" mindset from meditation on its own in the past. Meditation does not activate any receptor system through administration of chemicals. It has no 5-HT2 agonist active in it :smile:

I'm not saying meditation doesn't change the chemicals in your brain, but I am saying it produces psychedelic effects without needing to take a drug.


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InvisibleLucid Toast
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Re: The Psychedelic Effects of Alcohol [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #18968894 - 10/12/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:shrug:I find and oftenuse alcohol to so or me up from lsd, hunter Thompson has mention this too.
It nearly named my life on an unexpected dose of 25i.... Garbage stuff.


--------------------
You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief



"The menu is not the meal."
Alan watts

“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.”
Bill Hicks


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