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OfflineB4nAfterBurner
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Registered: 09/18/13
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Constant Humidity Issue
    #18967908 - 10/12/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Question concerning my RH level inside my greenhouse. I am running a bucket fogger so I have no issue reaching 100%, however I am running a recycle timer, on 1 minute off for 5. At times this is holding at 100% for a day or 2, then it seems to drop off. Mostly noticeable in the morning, after my heaters have been off over night. So I'll turn it up to like 2/5, and it holds at like 90% or higher. I guess my question is a flux of 10 - 15% okay for optimun conditions for the cubies? My GH is sealed good, so there really is no concern of leaking, just the air that gets pushed out the bottom. Also while I'm at it, would I be correct to assume that the fan on the fogger bucket is pushing more than enough FAE being on 1/5 timer, 24 H a day?
Thanks. AB.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: B4nAfterBurner]
    #18967943 - 10/12/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

You won't need as much FAE in a greenhouse since it holds so much air so I don't think you'll have to worry about that. Also the RH should be fine because keep in mind it's going to be higher the closer to the substrate that you get, so what you measure in the air as a drop may likely just be confined the the humidity in the air and not near the surface where pinning takes place. It's going to be hard to get an accurate reading of the actual surface humidity so I'd just assume it's safe and base any adjustments on pin formation and fruiting behaviors, my guess is you'll be fine.

edit: If youre really worried about the humidity check the condensation. If the surface has a consistent amount of droplets on it, doesn't get dry, and yet doesn't start to pool up, then chances are you're just fine.


Edited by krypto2000 (10/12/13 11:24 AM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: krypto2000]
    #18968014 - 10/12/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
You won't need as much FAE in a greenhouse since it holds so much air .



Not true at all.

People should focus more on FAE than humidity, no matter the setup.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
edit: If youre really worried about the humidity check the condensation. If the surface has a consistent amount of droplets on it, doesn't get dry, and yet doesn't start to pool up, then chances are you're just fine.



I hate seeing this crap.

Condensation is not a way to tell if you have good humidity or not.

There is never condensation in a SGFC, and yet it holds 100% humidity most of the time.

Condensation forms from a temperature differential, nothing else.

Without a temperature difference, there would be no condensation.

Looking at the condensation will not give you the slightest hint of the actual percentage.

OP, a fluctuation is a good thing, if it was at 100% all the time, there would be no room for our biggest pinning trigger, which is evaporation of water off the substrate.

You need better FAE.


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Offlineisic
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: PussyFart]
    #18968053 - 10/12/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If I remember right, I read a thread sometime ago where Notahacker420 explained pretty well the difference between humidity and condensation. It was a helluva read and I learned a great deal from that thread. Notahacker420 knows his shit!


--------------------


Edited by isic (10/12/13 12:00 PM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: PussyFart]
    #18968106 - 10/12/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
You won't need as much FAE in a greenhouse since it holds so much air .



Not true at all.

People should focus more on FAE than humidity, no matter the setup.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
edit: If youre really worried about the humidity check the condensation. If the surface has a consistent amount of droplets on it, doesn't get dry, and yet doesn't start to pool up, then chances are you're just fine.



I hate seeing this crap.

Condensation is not a way to tell if you have good humidity or not.

There is never condensation in a SGFC, and yet it holds 100% humidity most of the time.

Condensation forms from a temperature differential, nothing else.

Without a temperature difference, there would be no condensation.

Looking at the condensation will not give you the slightest hint of the actual percentage.

OP, a fluctuation is a good thing, if it was at 100% all the time, there would be no room for our biggest pinning trigger, which is evaporation of water off the substrate.

You need better FAE.




I never said FAE is not important, but if it's a greenhouse simply opening the door and walking in a couple times a day will cycle a LOT of the air out. It doesn't need FAE as often because there will be a lot of fresh air surrounding it. That's like saying a gymnasium will get stale as quickly as a closet simply by sealing it up, it's going to take WAY longer for a gymnasium to start to get stale and since there is more space there will naturally be more circulation.

Also the walls of a fruiting chamber and the surface of the substrate are very different things. The surface of a substrate will always flucuate in temperature because the substrate produces heat and thus you want droplets of water on it. If your ambient air inside the GH is relatively humid and your substrate neither dries out nor pools with water and yet has a rather steady formation of condensation then that is absolutely a visual indication of the RH near the surface. The ambient air should *always* be cooler than the substrate temperature itself so you should rarely have condensation forming on a substrate from the air, most of these drops are going to be from the water evaporating off of the substrate and thus the humidity right above it will naturally be higher than a reading taken from a random place in the room. The walls of a shotgun fruiting chamber should not be fluctuating in temperature to a significant degree and thus you should not expect there to be condensation forming on it, if there was not condensation forming on your cakes or substrate kept within the shotgun chamber though you can bet your ass your humidity is too low.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: krypto2000]
    #18968115 - 10/12/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
I never said FAE is not important, but if it's a greenhouse simply opening the door and walking in a couple times a day will cycle a LOT of the air out. It doesn't need FAE as often because there will be a lot of fresh air surrounding it. That's like saying a gymnasium will get stale as quickly as a closet simply by sealing it up, it's going to take WAY longer for a gymnasium to start to get stale and since there is more space there will naturally be more circulation.





FAE is a continuous phenomenon not stale air removal, go read some more. That's like fanning a SGFC for FAE :smbfacepalm:

Take what you read from krypto2000 with a grain of salt. This is the guy that couldn't use any critical thinking skills to deduce why he had a living fly in one of his spawn jars.
Check this shit out


Also this...
Quote:

if there was not condensation forming on your cakes or substrate kept within the shotgun chamber though you can bet your ass your humidity is too low.



Uhh why the hell would we ever have to mist the cakes then if they never got dry. Most of us have to mist 3-5 times a day to keep them looking wet. WTF is up with you lately?


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (10/12/13 12:31 PM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: krypto2000]
    #18968149 - 10/12/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
I never said FAE is not important, but if it's a greenhouse simply opening the door and walking in a couple times a day will cycle a LOT of the air out



Sure it will, but mushrooms like constant FAE for fruiting.

Think of every other setup you know of....always constant FAE...so why would GH be any different.

Cycling out the air a few times a day is fine, but a few times an hour would be better.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
You won't need as much FAE in a greenhouse since it holds so much air .



Not true at all.

People should focus more on FAE than humidity, no matter the setup.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Also the walls of a fruiting chamber and the surface of the substrate are very different things. The surface of a substrate will always flucuate in temperature because the substrate produces heat and thus you want droplets of water on it. If your ambient air inside the GH is relatively humid and your substrate neither dries out nor pools with water and yet has a rather steady formation of condensation then that is absolutely a visual indication of the RH near the surface.



On the substrate's surface sure, but not on the GH walls.

That is what I was referring to, I think i misread what you said originally.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
The walls of a shotgun fruiting chamber should not be fluctuating in temperature to a significant degree and thus you should not expect there to be condensation forming on it, if there was not condensation forming on your cakes or substrate kept within the shotgun chamber though you can bet your ass your humidity is too low.



Yes, I misread what you said...my bad.

And yes, I fucked up this quote.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Registered: 01/04/11
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: B4nAfterBurner]
    #18968268 - 10/12/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

B4nAfterBurner said:
Question concerning my RH level inside my greenhouse. I am running a bucket fogger so I have no issue reaching 100%, however I am running a recycle timer, on 1 minute off for 5. At times this is holding at 100% for a day or 2, then it seems to drop off. Mostly noticeable in the morning, after my heaters have been off over night. So I'll turn it up to like 2/5, and it holds at like 90% or higher. I guess my question is a flux of 10 - 15% okay for optimun conditions for the cubies? My GH is sealed good, so there really is no concern of leaking, just the air that gets pushed out the bottom. Also while I'm at it, would I be correct to assume that the fan on the fogger bucket is pushing more than enough FAE being on 1/5 timer, 24 H a day?
Thanks. AB.




If your GH was truly sealed, you would be getting almost no FAE whatsoever. A fogger will not provide FAE either.

You may want to re-think your strategy.

Take a look at my mini-GH, it works wonders :thumbup:


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Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: bodhisatta]
    #18968453 - 10/12/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
I never said FAE is not important, but if it's a greenhouse simply opening the door and walking in a couple times a day will cycle a LOT of the air out. It doesn't need FAE as often because there will be a lot of fresh air surrounding it. That's like saying a gymnasium will get stale as quickly as a closet simply by sealing it up, it's going to take WAY longer for a gymnasium to start to get stale and since there is more space there will naturally be more circulation.





FAE is a continuous phenomenon not stale air removal, go read some more. That's like fanning a SGFC for FAE :smbfacepalm:





What do you think FAE if not the removal of stale air? If the GH is sealed like he says then the air ciculating inside of it is not going to cause any significant introduction of fresh air, it's just going to circulate stale air after awhile. You don't fan a shotgun for fresh air because it has holes in it, a greenhouse is not a giant shotgun chamber, especially by his description.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:

Uhh why the hell would we ever have to mist the cakes then if they never got dry. Most of us have to mist 3-5 times a day to keep them looking wet. WTF is up with you lately?





You mist a cake because the cake itself starts to dry up due to having a small water capacity. You aren't misting your bulk grows at least until after the first flush are you? I doubt his greenhouse is full of cakes so talking of them is not particularly useful here. If his bulk substrate inside the greenhouse is fully colonized and there are no water droplets forming on the surface then either his humidity is too low, it was underhydrated initially, or it's simply old and drying out. You're just trying to argue and are not even reading what I'm saying. So far all I've seen you do is to just go around critisizing people, spouting misinformation, not even reading their posts properly, and not even correcting what they say or offering actual advice of any kind. Lose the attitude.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: PussyFart]
    #18968482 - 10/12/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
I never said FAE is not important, but if it's a greenhouse simply opening the door and walking in a couple times a day will cycle a LOT of the air out



Sure it will, but mushrooms like constant FAE for fruiting.

Think of every other setup you know of....always constant FAE...so why would GH be any different.

Cycling out the air a few times a day is fine, but a few times an hour would be better.





I wasn't saying he doesn't need FAE, but that he won't require it as often as say a monotub. A greenhouse, at least most I've seen, have a much higher air:growth medium ratio than a mono, shotgun, whatever kind of small tub you're using indoors. It's as if you're stuck in a pressure sealed room, the larger the room the more air you'll have to breath and thus the longer you'll live. I would think fully transfering the air in a greenhouse every hour, or even every few hours, it wouldn't even be able to hold a high level of humidity.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: krypto2000]
    #18968493 - 10/12/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

But it would, because there would be constant evaporation off the substrate.

This moisture goes into the air and raises the humidity.

You want very little co2 for fruiting, you cannot have this in a sealed unit.

You want plenty of FAE so there is low co2 levels.

RR recommends cutting slits down the entire thing on both sides.

Constant FAE, low co2, high humidity.


Edited by PussyFart (10/12/13 02:14 PM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Constant Humidity Issue [Re: PussyFart]
    #18968534 - 10/12/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The more air:substrate you have the longer it's going to take to become saturated with CO2 as well though. You still need to cycle the air, but it's relative to the capcity of the room. If you grew two monotubs with the same size width, length, and substrate depth, but was was 3 times as tall and they both had just as much FAE then the taller one will dry out faster and you might even need to mist it to keep the humidity up and provide water for the substrate at that point.


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