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Anonymous #1

Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Mescalean]
    #18965445 - 10/11/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Lol wtf there is no proof that mj increases est.




http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/marijuana-use-and-its-effects

"Heavy marijuana use lowers men's testosterone levels and sperm count and quality. Pot could decrease libido and fertility in some heavy-smoking men."

I guess I worded it wrong and I assumed OP was a heavy toker.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Mescalean]
    #18966679 - 10/12/13 01:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Ps, ive gained more than 5 lbs a year with zero bf increase and no roids. Thats an awfully low number imo




Yes, obviously it's possible to gain more than 5lbs a year, but anything that is in excess of roughly that number is actually fat and water retention that you are gaining. (Aside from n00bs, n00bs can gain 10lbs within the first 6 months and it will be mostly muscle). There's no strict limit that says it's exactly 5lbs, the actual amount of muscle you can gain varies from person to person, but any weight gain in excess of roughly that number is either body fat or water.

That is without steroids though. But even with steroids, you only gain roughly 0.5 to 2lbs of ACTUAL muscle with each "cycle." Which means the rest of what you are gaining is not muscle, but something else--either water, food in your stomach, or fat.

When I was on roids (which means my body was synthesizing and maximizing every bit of protein I consumed and feeding it to my muscles), and even when I gained roughly 17 pounds on steroids, that also included about 3-4% extra body fat that I didn't have before. I'm certain a lot of it was water retention too.

If you are on a bulking diet, you are going to have to expect some fat gains. Roughly 2-3% body fat gain if you are on a lean bulk, and 5-6% if you are on a dirty bulk. You never realize how small your muscles actually are until you actually start cutting and begin losing water.


Edited by Crystal G (10/12/13 01:29 AM)


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OfflineOthyem
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Crystal G]
    #18966779 - 10/12/13 02:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I netted around 25 lbs of lean mass in about a year. Completely possible for noobs to pack on around that much.


Edited by Othyem (10/12/13 02:23 AM)


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Othyem]
    #18966826 - 10/12/13 02:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Othyem said:
I netted around 25 lbs of lean mass in about a year. Completely possible for noobs to pack on around that much.

As for mass during a cycle, my friend put on ten lbs of lean roughly on a cycle of hdrol and that's a relatively weak compound.




I never said it wasn't possible to gain more than 5lbs a year, just that roughly 5 pounds of it is going to be actual MUSCLE. For noobs it might be 10lbs within the first 6 months or so. Anything above that is going to be water weight and fat. When you gained the 25lbs, you should have also seen at least a 1-2% fat increase if you were bulking. This is going to be consistent with my claims, because 1lb of fat has a larger mass quantity than 1lb of muscle, and will therefore make you look a lot larger.

With steroids, you can expect between a 0.5 to 2lb gain in muscle, this is AFTER you have started cutting and all the water weight that you were retaining from the steroids has gone away (which takes between 3 days to a month depending on the compound you used). People can easily gain 10-25lbs in under 2 months on cycle, but what usually happens is most of that weight ends up going away once they are off-cycle, because it is mostly water. Once you begin cutting and drop the fat, what you are left with is about an extra pound or two of muscle.

This is why, whenever you get sick and vomit for 4 days straight, you lose about 5lbs very easily. What you are losing is not actual muscle, it is just water weight and your fat cells shrinking from dehydration.


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OfflineOthyem
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Crystal G]
    #18966874 - 10/12/13 02:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I went from 130 to 170 in a year cut back down to down to 160. That was a year. Body fat was measured with calipers before and after.  I can post before and afters. Bit embarrassed of the before though I looked like a corpse.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Othyem]
    #18966891 - 10/12/13 02:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Othyem said:
I went from 130 to 170 in a year cut back down to down to 160. That was a year. Body fat was measured with calipers before and after.  I can post before and afters. Bit embarrassed of the before though I looked like a corpse.




Let me ask you a question. What do you think would happen if you stopped working out for 3 weeks, and lowered your caloric intake to about 1000kcal a day, again for 3 weeks straight? How many pounds do you think you would lose in those 2 weeks? Because realistically, you would only be losing grams of "actual" muscle. But if you step on the scale, you will find that you have lost around 5lbs. So what else is it you are losing?


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OfflineOthyem
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Crystal G]
    #18966920 - 10/12/13 02:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I went from 205 to 190 in about 3 weeks over the summer.  I lost a fuckload of water bodyfat and muscle.

My numbers for my year before and after came after I cut. I understand I added water and fat in that time. Had I not accounted for that I would have said 40 lbs, but I know that initial 40 was not all lean gains.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Othyem]
    #18967120 - 10/12/13 04:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Othyem said:
I went from 205 to 190 in about 3 weeks over the summer.  I lost a fuckload of water bodyfat and muscle.

My numbers for my year before and after came after I cut. I understand I added water and fat in that time. Had I not accounted for that I would have said 40 lbs, but I know that initial 40 was not all lean gains.




Exactly how did you lose 15lbs in 3 weeks? The only people I've heard of possibly losing that much weight in such a short span of time did it with crack or meth.

More than likely, I'm guessing you were on a heavy bulking diet until you hit 205. I say that because the weight you gain on a bulking diet is very very hard to retain once you stop bulking. Bulking causes a lot of water retention, it causes bloating, and this is why it's so easy to lose the weight once you stop--because most of what you gained wasn't just muscle but rather water retention and bloated fat cells, largely due to excess carbohydrate intake. This is a large part of why your muscles APPEAR larger on a bulking diet, it's "pumped" with fluid and you become more vascular as you retain water. Because clearly you did not lose 15lbs of muscle (or fat for that matter) within that period of time.

If I am accurate about you having bulked to 205lbs, then your weight loss is actually consistent with what I'm saying about weight gain and weight loss during bulking and cutting diets.

Realistically, you are not going to gain or lose any more than grams of muscle each week. This translates to roughly 5 pounds of muscle a year. Any additional weight you are gaining or losing is not muscle, but a combination of other things. The reason your muscles appear larger when bulking is largely due to water retention.

It's the same reason your muscles appear larger within hours of recent exercise, is because of increased blood flow to your muscles. Your actual muscle is not gaining in mass when this happens. It has more of a "balloon effect," and it inflates when blood and water circulate through the area. Your muscles give off the appearance of looking "pumped." This is why when you end a steroid cycle or go on a low-carb diet and water begins leaving your body, you might lose 10lbs in a week and your muscles will "deflate" and look smaller, but what you lost was actually water, not muscle.

It is entirely possible and accurate to say that a large portion of your muscles "shrank," or "expanded in size," because that is what happens visually. Muscles can give the appearance of bloating and deflating rather quickly, but this is not the actual muscle increasing or decreasing this quickly in mass or weight.


Edited by Crystal G (10/12/13 04:50 AM)


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OfflineOthyem
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Crystal G]
    #18968281 - 10/12/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I sat at 205 for a good while. I can maintain 200 really easy. I sint think dropping the weight had much to do with bulking. I was just under a lot of stress and didn't eat. I also quit taking creatine. That shit makes me hold about 5lbs of water on its own.


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