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OfflineHerbologist
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Creatine vs Amino Acids
    #18963584 - 10/11/13 11:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I am 6 ft 135-140 pounds, I am currently working out as much as I can but I really need some additional supplements besides my protein powder.

My main focus is just gaining weight and becoming overall much stronger.  I have a gym membership but due to a lot of time constrains, I barely make it in to the gym.  SO about every other day or every day I do a full pull up routine at my house and then I do a push up routine and an ab routine.  Another reason Ive started these body weight exercises is because honestly I am not strong enough for a lot of the weights at the gym and I feel that if I dont master my body weight first that I am going to end up hurting myself.

So my question is.. Should I be using creatine or amino acids?  I kind of self concluded that I am going to buy the amino acids regardless, because they are so amazing.  But I really want to know about creatine.  I want to know if its better then aminos, if it shows better results, is it worth buying and using based on my current work out routine?  I know the majority of weight is water at first, but after that does it help keep adding on weight?

I have a extremely sensitive digestive system so I was also wondering how creatine sits on someones stomach like myself.  The protein powder I use is plant protein ( Plant Fusion ) so it digests really easy, I like it a lot.

Do you guys think that doing a lot of variations of push ups, pull ups, and sit ups that I can gain weight in muscle mass?

I eat as much as my stomach will possibly let me but I CANT FUCKING GAIN ANY WEIGHT ITS LIKE MY METABOLISM IS A DAMN PAC MAN.

This is the Amino Acids I am probably going to pick up.
http://www.vitacost.com/scivation-xtend-intra-workout-catalyst-watermelon-madness-375-g-1#productDetails

and the creatine I was looking at
http://www.vitacost.com/universal-nutrition-creatine-buy-one-get-one-free-200-g-each#productDetails

http://www.vitacost.com/optimum-nutrition-micronized-creatine-powder-unflavored-5000-mg-300-g#nutritionFacts


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Edited by Herbologist (10/11/13 11:51 AM)


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Offlinero-deez
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Herbologist]
    #18963666 - 10/11/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

up your carbs thats not avg weight for a man your height


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Offlinero-deez
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: ro-deez]
    #18963671 - 10/11/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

yu gota eae...a lot


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Herbologist]
    #18963678 - 10/11/13 12:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

When I went to college I was 6'2" and 135 lbs. I'm a solid 200 now.
You want to gain weight, but you should want to stay trim too.  Creatine will back the pounds on, but may cause you to lose a "fit" look. What helped me was eating a lot of peanut butter and oatmeal. And I mean a lot.  Several times a day in between meals. The only supplement I took was amino acids to help break down the protein I was consuming.
Though I don't sleep very much these days, it's crucial that your body gets a good 7 or 8 hours of sleep a night so it can grow. Also, if you don't have time for a gym, alternating days of pushups, pull ups, and lunges and squats will show you incredible gain in a few weeks if you are dedicated.


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: ro-deez]
    #18963697 - 10/11/13 12:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

IMO those supplements are BS--they are not going to replace a good diet and some good hard manual labor--if I was you I would look into eating good white meat like fish and chicken and find some way to make your workouts more productive like spitting a couple cords of wood--then again I guess a lot of folks don't live in the sticks like me--haha


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: azur]
    #18963728 - 10/11/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I dont need help on eating right, my diet is fine.  I eat all grass fed beef, I down lots of pasta and breads and potatoes, I eat lots of veggies and fruit, i drink tons of water.... My diet is not the problem here.  The only time its a problem is because I am usually at my girlfriends place where its a pain in the fucking ass to prepare myself a meal sometimes because well its not my house and I get tired of going out to eat

There isnt much manual labor to be done around here. So an actual workout is what I need to do.

Quote:

azur said:
When I went to college I was 6'2" and 135 lbs. I'm a solid 200 now.
You want to gain weight, but you should want to stay trim too.  Creatine will back the pounds on, but may cause you to lose a "fit" look. What helped me was eating a lot of peanut butter and oatmeal. And I mean a lot.  Several times a day in between meals. The only supplement I took was amino acids to help break down the protein I was consuming.
Though I don't sleep very much these days, it's crucial that your body gets a good 7 or 8 hours of sleep a night so it can grow. Also, if you don't have time for a gym, alternating days of pushups, pull ups, and lunges and squats will show you incredible gain in a few weeks if you are dedicated.




Did you like the results of creatine? I would KILL to be 160-190.  I am so skinny I dont think ill ever have a look that is real bloated or bulky, fit is pretty much my body type.

I like the idea of gaining mass just from push ups and pull ups and stuff because that is what I have access the most to


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Edited by Herbologist (10/11/13 12:22 PM)


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Herbologist]
    #18963756 - 10/11/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I liked what the amino acids did.  Never took the creatine, but I saw decent results from friends that did.  I don't suggest it myself.  Eat, workout, sleep.  Also, if you smoke cigs or pot, your blood flow will be restricted and you won't get as big as you could. 
At my peak, I was doing ten sets of 50 pushups one day and the same amount of pull ups the next. Alternate on a 6 day schedule and have the 7th day to rest.  Letting your body heal is as equally important as working out.
I also did A LOT of squats with heavy weight.  Mostly because I hate seeing big dudes with toothpick legs.  Push em down with a flick of a booger. What I found though is doing squats really helps the rest of your body blow up fast!


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: azur]
    #18963772 - 10/11/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:
I liked what the amino acids did.  Never took the creatine, but I saw decent results from friends that did.  I don't suggest it myself.  Eat, workout, sleep.  Also, if you smoke cigs or pot, your blood flow will be restricted and you won't get as big as you could. 
At my peak, I was doing ten sets of 50 pushups one day and the same amount of pull ups the next. Alternate on a 6 day schedule and have the 7th day to rest.  Letting your body heal is as equally important as working out.
I also did A LOT of squats with heavy weight.  Mostly because I hate seeing big dudes with toothpick legs.  Push em down with a flick of a booger. What I found though is doing squats really helps the rest of your body blow up fast!




Well, I do smoke a lot of weed.  Its one of the things that allows me to keep eating.

I just purchased the Amino acids, still not sure if Ill get the creatine or not.  I wish I could do some squats at home, Idk what Id use to do that though haha.

I try to work out every day but Ive kind of been on an every other day routine, Ill try to make it more into every day


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Herbologist]
    #18963967 - 10/11/13 01:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Gyms are really a waste of $ in my opinion. Exercise is free.  Build yourself a squat rack in your back yard.  Or Craigslist it.
I promise if you dedicate yourself to calisthenics for 2 months, you'll be a beast compared to how you are now. 
And try to find another way to ingest the herb than smoking it.


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: azur]
    #18964048 - 10/11/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:
Gyms are really a waste of $ in my opinion. Exercise is free.  Build yourself a squat rack in your back yard.  Or Craigslist it.
I promise if you dedicate yourself to calisthenics for 2 months, you'll be a beast compared to how you are now. 
And try to find another way to ingest the herb than smoking it.




Building a squat rack may pose quite a challenge lol.  Going on craigslist isnt bad but I doubt anyone would be able to deliver to my place, I just have a small honda so i couldn pick up a squat rack.

Im going to be in cali at the end of october, im dedicated and im hoping for at least some strength gain by then.  I'll be with my girlfriend and im anticipating the possibility that assholes are going to make comments like they have before cause she is very beautiful, I want to be able to stand in front and protect her from things


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Edited by Herbologist (10/11/13 01:36 PM)


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Herbologist]
    #18964312 - 10/11/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Creatine and amino acids both do different things entirely. Creatine will help you gain weight, it will retain water and feed it to your muscles and speed up overall muscle recovery, but you should also expect a bloated belly (not a 6-pack) due to excessive water retention.

Amino acids are found in everyday vegetables and protein, and they improve muscle recovery and soreness. They will not help you gain weight, it is strictly for muscle recovery. As long as you are consuming 1g of protein per lb of body weight that you weigh, you shouldn't need any excess amino acids on top of that. You should also include incomplete proteins such as carbs and beans when you are counting up your daily total protein intake.

You also need to consume a high amount of carbs on top of the protein that you are eating. Probably for your weight and height, I'd suggest a minimum of 500g of carbs a day. They will provide you with fuel, will help your muscles achieve a more vascular "pump," and gaining weight will help you lift heavier and stronger.

You need to know, however, that unless you are on steroids, you can only realistically gain about 5lbs of muscle for each year that you work out. Any weight that you are gaining in excess of that is likely just fat, or water. There are a lot of myths out there, and the biggest one is that fat does not ever, ever turn to muscle. (The myth is that fat turns to muscle, but really, it doesn't, they are two separate cells and you can only shrink fat cells.) So keep this in mind during your weight gain, and let us know how it goes.

You might also have to accept the fact that if you are young (say, under 23), it might be difficult for you to gain weight during this stage. Many people are ectomorphs while they are younger, and then around age 25 when their metabolism begins slowing down, they start gaining more and more weight. I personally was always an ectomorph until I hit age 25.


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Crystal G]
    #18964354 - 10/11/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Creatine and amino acids both do different things entirely. Creatine will help you gain weight, it will retain water and feed it to your muscles and speed up overall muscle recovery, but you should also expect a bloated belly (not a 6-pack) due to excessive water retention.

Amino acids are found in everyday vegetables and protein, and they improve muscle recovery and soreness. They will not help you gain weight, it is strictly for muscle recovery. As long as you are consuming 1g of protein per lb of body weight that you weigh, you shouldn't need any excess amino acids on top of that. You should also include incomplete proteins such as carbs and beans when you are counting up your daily total protein intake.

You also need to consume a high amount of carbs on top of the protein that you are eating. Probably for your weight and height, I'd suggest a minimum of 500g of carbs a day. They will provide you with fuel, will help your muscles achieve a more vascular "pump," and gaining weight will help you lift heavier and stronger.

You need to know, however, that unless you are on steroids, you can only realistically gain about 5lbs of muscle for each year that you work out. Any weight that you are gaining in excess of that is likely just fat, or water. There are a lot of myths out there, and the biggest one is that fat does not ever, ever turn to muscle. (The myth is that fat turns to muscle, but really, it doesn't, they are two separate cells and you can only shrink fat cells.) So keep this in mind during your weight gain, and let us know how it goes.

You might also have to accept the fact that if you are young (say, under 23), it might be difficult for you to gain weight during this stage. Many people are ectomorphs while they are younger, and then around age 25 when their metabolism begins slowing down, they start gaining more and more weight. I personally was always an ectomorph until I hit age 25.





Well I purchased the Amino Acids.. Should I be purchasing the creatine as well?  I'll have to pay for shipping twice :frown: lol.

I really want to gain weight, I probably have like 2% body fat or less ( i dont actually know, i just cant imagine that i have very much of it ) so I dont mind a little bit of fat ( healthy fat lol if thats possible ).

Even if I dont gain weight, I want to be stronger and more in shape.. I want to be able to take of myself and my girlfriend physically


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Herbologist]
    #18964436 - 10/11/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Herbologist said:
Well I purchased the Amino Acids.. Should I be purchasing the creatine as well?  I'll have to pay for shipping twice :frown: lol.

I really want to gain weight, I probably have like 2% body fat or less ( i dont actually know, i just cant imagine that i have very much of it ) so I dont mind a little bit of fat ( healthy fat lol if thats possible ).

Even if I dont gain weight, I want to be stronger and more in shape.. I want to be able to take of myself and my girlfriend physically




To be honest, as long as you are consuming a gram per protein for every pound that you weigh, you really shouldn't need amino acids. Just take the amino acids whenever you feel any muscle soreness in your body.

The only way to gain weight and become stronger is to eat more. Eat like a horse, eat every 3 hours, even when when you aren't hungry, ever 3 hours you should at least be having a snack of at least 5g of protein and 10g of carbs. Eat every 3 hours!!! Except when you are sleeping, that's it.

You're probably somewhere around 8-10% BF. For men, getting below 8% is actually extremely difficult to do naturally. This is a table to give you a rough estimate of what 8-10% looks like:



You will gradually get stronger and more in shape the more you exercise. Even without supplements or a perfect diet, that will happen.

Creatine is a good weight gainer, just know that you probably WILL develop what looks like a "gut" due to the excess water retention. There's a good chance you might also get bloating in your upper leg (quad) area too. Creatine is to used exclusively during your "bulk," when it's time to cut you stop taking the creatine.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #18964598 - 10/11/13 03:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If you want to gain weight, UP your calories by a lot. Talking like 3.5-4k calories daily. Also, Marijuana increases estrogen levels so It might be hard to make the gains that you want to.

And if you want to get big fast, look into "Cell-Tech". Pretty much creatine with sugar, but it will get you huge considering everything else is in place.

Before

After




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OfflineGorlax
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #18964656 - 10/11/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Amino Acids --> build up proteins why your body uses for all its processes (DNA replication, muscle growth, tissue growth, etc)

Creatine helps to supply energy to all cells in the body, primarily muscle. (basically protein supplement to counteract low protein intake)

Mark is on Serious Mass and each serving is like 1500 calories!




he drinks like two a fucking day on top of eating fast food and is still a twig... until he started P90x again, then he bulked up.. got cut more like it..

Cardio will melt weight off, so your probably going to need to slowly work into lifting n do very light cardio(etc)...

and Then there is the Hercules diet which is really insane (The Rock uses this shit)



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OfflineMescalean
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Gorlax]
    #18964882 - 10/11/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Lol wtf there is no proof that mj increases est. this has been debunked. Drinking on the other hand is proven to lower test levels.

If youre not growing there are one of two things wrong, your diet/calorie intake,or how youre lifting. Stay away from cardio and isolation machines go for compound lifts. Squats rows deadlift bench dips. LIFT HEAVY EAT HEAVY. You sound like a hard gainer man. Eat eat eat.

Ps, ive gained more than 5 lbs a year with zero bf increase and no roids. Thats an awfully low number imo


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Mescalean]
    #18964961 - 10/11/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I totally agree.  When I first started working out, I gained 20 pounds in less than 4 months and have never done steroids.


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OfflineMescalean
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: azur]
    #18965006 - 10/11/13 05:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thev noob gains are the shit man i miss those days. Complete transformation in so little time.

Ps I 100 percent encourage smoking bud. Sober eating i gag half way through. Stoned eating im a garbage disposal. Only thing to watch out for is make smart choices. Go for the chicken instead of the chips. Greek yogurt is the bomb bomb.


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OfflineGorlax
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Mescalean]
    #18965346 - 10/11/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah wtf weed don't lower shit! If anything it lower my ability to not stop eating.


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OfflineOthyem
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Gorlax]
    #18965393 - 10/11/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Eat food, a lot of food. If you cant do thet dont waste your money on supps.I don't supplement at all aside from a multi vitamin and a ore workout drink.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Mescalean]
    #18965445 - 10/11/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Lol wtf there is no proof that mj increases est.




http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/marijuana-use-and-its-effects

"Heavy marijuana use lowers men's testosterone levels and sperm count and quality. Pot could decrease libido and fertility in some heavy-smoking men."

I guess I worded it wrong and I assumed OP was a heavy toker.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Mescalean]
    #18966679 - 10/12/13 01:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Ps, ive gained more than 5 lbs a year with zero bf increase and no roids. Thats an awfully low number imo




Yes, obviously it's possible to gain more than 5lbs a year, but anything that is in excess of roughly that number is actually fat and water retention that you are gaining. (Aside from n00bs, n00bs can gain 10lbs within the first 6 months and it will be mostly muscle). There's no strict limit that says it's exactly 5lbs, the actual amount of muscle you can gain varies from person to person, but any weight gain in excess of roughly that number is either body fat or water.

That is without steroids though. But even with steroids, you only gain roughly 0.5 to 2lbs of ACTUAL muscle with each "cycle." Which means the rest of what you are gaining is not muscle, but something else--either water, food in your stomach, or fat.

When I was on roids (which means my body was synthesizing and maximizing every bit of protein I consumed and feeding it to my muscles), and even when I gained roughly 17 pounds on steroids, that also included about 3-4% extra body fat that I didn't have before. I'm certain a lot of it was water retention too.

If you are on a bulking diet, you are going to have to expect some fat gains. Roughly 2-3% body fat gain if you are on a lean bulk, and 5-6% if you are on a dirty bulk. You never realize how small your muscles actually are until you actually start cutting and begin losing water.


Edited by Crystal G (10/12/13 01:29 AM)


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OfflineOthyem
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Crystal G]
    #18966779 - 10/12/13 02:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I netted around 25 lbs of lean mass in about a year. Completely possible for noobs to pack on around that much.


Edited by Othyem (10/12/13 02:23 AM)


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Othyem]
    #18966826 - 10/12/13 02:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Othyem said:
I netted around 25 lbs of lean mass in about a year. Completely possible for noobs to pack on around that much.

As for mass during a cycle, my friend put on ten lbs of lean roughly on a cycle of hdrol and that's a relatively weak compound.




I never said it wasn't possible to gain more than 5lbs a year, just that roughly 5 pounds of it is going to be actual MUSCLE. For noobs it might be 10lbs within the first 6 months or so. Anything above that is going to be water weight and fat. When you gained the 25lbs, you should have also seen at least a 1-2% fat increase if you were bulking. This is going to be consistent with my claims, because 1lb of fat has a larger mass quantity than 1lb of muscle, and will therefore make you look a lot larger.

With steroids, you can expect between a 0.5 to 2lb gain in muscle, this is AFTER you have started cutting and all the water weight that you were retaining from the steroids has gone away (which takes between 3 days to a month depending on the compound you used). People can easily gain 10-25lbs in under 2 months on cycle, but what usually happens is most of that weight ends up going away once they are off-cycle, because it is mostly water. Once you begin cutting and drop the fat, what you are left with is about an extra pound or two of muscle.

This is why, whenever you get sick and vomit for 4 days straight, you lose about 5lbs very easily. What you are losing is not actual muscle, it is just water weight and your fat cells shrinking from dehydration.


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OfflineOthyem
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Crystal G]
    #18966874 - 10/12/13 02:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I went from 130 to 170 in a year cut back down to down to 160. That was a year. Body fat was measured with calipers before and after.  I can post before and afters. Bit embarrassed of the before though I looked like a corpse.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Othyem]
    #18966891 - 10/12/13 02:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Othyem said:
I went from 130 to 170 in a year cut back down to down to 160. That was a year. Body fat was measured with calipers before and after.  I can post before and afters. Bit embarrassed of the before though I looked like a corpse.




Let me ask you a question. What do you think would happen if you stopped working out for 3 weeks, and lowered your caloric intake to about 1000kcal a day, again for 3 weeks straight? How many pounds do you think you would lose in those 2 weeks? Because realistically, you would only be losing grams of "actual" muscle. But if you step on the scale, you will find that you have lost around 5lbs. So what else is it you are losing?


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OfflineOthyem
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Crystal G]
    #18966920 - 10/12/13 02:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I went from 205 to 190 in about 3 weeks over the summer.  I lost a fuckload of water bodyfat and muscle.

My numbers for my year before and after came after I cut. I understand I added water and fat in that time. Had I not accounted for that I would have said 40 lbs, but I know that initial 40 was not all lean gains.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Othyem]
    #18967120 - 10/12/13 04:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Othyem said:
I went from 205 to 190 in about 3 weeks over the summer.  I lost a fuckload of water bodyfat and muscle.

My numbers for my year before and after came after I cut. I understand I added water and fat in that time. Had I not accounted for that I would have said 40 lbs, but I know that initial 40 was not all lean gains.




Exactly how did you lose 15lbs in 3 weeks? The only people I've heard of possibly losing that much weight in such a short span of time did it with crack or meth.

More than likely, I'm guessing you were on a heavy bulking diet until you hit 205. I say that because the weight you gain on a bulking diet is very very hard to retain once you stop bulking. Bulking causes a lot of water retention, it causes bloating, and this is why it's so easy to lose the weight once you stop--because most of what you gained wasn't just muscle but rather water retention and bloated fat cells, largely due to excess carbohydrate intake. This is a large part of why your muscles APPEAR larger on a bulking diet, it's "pumped" with fluid and you become more vascular as you retain water. Because clearly you did not lose 15lbs of muscle (or fat for that matter) within that period of time.

If I am accurate about you having bulked to 205lbs, then your weight loss is actually consistent with what I'm saying about weight gain and weight loss during bulking and cutting diets.

Realistically, you are not going to gain or lose any more than grams of muscle each week. This translates to roughly 5 pounds of muscle a year. Any additional weight you are gaining or losing is not muscle, but a combination of other things. The reason your muscles appear larger when bulking is largely due to water retention.

It's the same reason your muscles appear larger within hours of recent exercise, is because of increased blood flow to your muscles. Your actual muscle is not gaining in mass when this happens. It has more of a "balloon effect," and it inflates when blood and water circulate through the area. Your muscles give off the appearance of looking "pumped." This is why when you end a steroid cycle or go on a low-carb diet and water begins leaving your body, you might lose 10lbs in a week and your muscles will "deflate" and look smaller, but what you lost was actually water, not muscle.

It is entirely possible and accurate to say that a large portion of your muscles "shrank," or "expanded in size," because that is what happens visually. Muscles can give the appearance of bloating and deflating rather quickly, but this is not the actual muscle increasing or decreasing this quickly in mass or weight.


Edited by Crystal G (10/12/13 04:50 AM)


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OfflineOthyem
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Re: Creatine vs Amino Acids [Re: Crystal G]
    #18968281 - 10/12/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I sat at 205 for a good while. I can maintain 200 really easy. I sint think dropping the weight had much to do with bulking. I was just under a lot of stress and didn't eat. I also quit taking creatine. That shit makes me hold about 5lbs of water on its own.


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