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OfflineConfettiHead
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Registered: 06/14/12
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: NetDiver]
    #18960988 - 10/10/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

ConfettiHead said:
a) You die, your brain functioning ceases and there is only non-perceivable darkness.



Non-perceivable darkness is a non-sequitur. :shrug:

I don't believe in an afterlife, as there is no evidence for one, however the fact remains that "nothingness" is not perceivable.




I see what you're saying, but what I meant by non-perceivable darkness is essentially "nothingness", I just said it in a more difficult way. I know that nothingness is not perceivable. However, darkness is perceivable. Therefore, non-perceivable darkness would be nothingness. I think you know what I meant.

Quote:

The entire idea of non-perception is fundamentally paradoxical, but I'm not ready to solve the paradox with an unsupported leap of faith. Right now the best I can do is that I think it would be wrong to say there's "nothingness," and just as wrong to say that there's an afterlife. What the right answer is, I don't know. :shrug:




Nobody knows, haha. That's why speaking from a position of authority on the matter is utter foolishness. It's quite hilarious when I see individuals doing that.


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Offlinestellarshnap
Poet who doesn't know it


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 646
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18961301 - 10/10/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Most human beings over most of recorded history disagree with you. So do I. Sleep is sleep and death may result in an number of possibilities. Those possibilities have everything to do with the condition of the being who is transitioning into death. Annihilation is one possibility for certain individuals. In the highest mystical states, Eternity is experienced, non-linearity. In those states, there is no memory because thought is linear. It is a Pure Consciousness Event, it is Awareness of Awareness, and Awareness consisting of non-cognitive Identity, the "I AM" of Jesus in the Johannine Gospel, the Logos experiencing Itself as Self-Effulgent Eternal and Unbearable Compassion. Enlightenment or Salvation seems to consist in the illusion of our temporal identities falling away, and Awakening to the Realization that we've ALWAYS been the Eternal Logos. This is what awaits those who are duly prepared for death. The Buddhists call it the Clear Light. Christians call it the Kingdom of God or Heaven.




This would all be awesome, if these weren't states of mind experienced while ALIVE, with the use of the brain. Shit I've had experiences where my sense of self melted away and I merged with the infinite, I just didn't automatically assume it was some sort of mystical experience of a higher truth. Rather, that my brains perception of reality had been distorted to a great extent with the help of some healthy drug doses.


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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Offlinestellarshnap
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Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 646
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18961315 - 10/10/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Delta sleep as equivalent to death just doesn't seem very imaginative a thing to happen. It's so anticlimactic.




When I compare death to a deep, dreamless sleep, I do so because that is the closest I've come to "experiencing" nothingness. In other words, I didn't experience those 8 hours. I fell asleep, and woke up, my brain not registering/remembering anything in between. Why does death have to be climactic? Have you ever thought that maybe life IS the climax?


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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Offlinestellarshnap
Poet who doesn't know it


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 646
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #18961324 - 10/10/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ConfettiHead said:
Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

ConfettiHead said:
a) You die, your brain functioning ceases and there is only non-perceivable darkness.



Non-perceivable darkness is a non-sequitur. :shrug:

I don't believe in an afterlife, as there is no evidence for one, however the fact remains that "nothingness" is not perceivable.




I see what you're saying, but what I meant by non-perceivable darkness is essentially "nothingness", I just said it in a more difficult way. I know that nothingness is not perceivable. However, darkness is perceivable. Therefore, non-perceivable darkness would be nothingness. I think you know what I meant.

Quote:

The entire idea of non-perception is fundamentally paradoxical, but I'm not ready to solve the paradox with an unsupported leap of faith. Right now the best I can do is that I think it would be wrong to say there's "nothingness," and just as wrong to say that there's an afterlife. What the right answer is, I don't know. :shrug:




Nobody knows, haha. That's why speaking from a position of authority on the matter is utter foolishness. It's quite hilarious when I see individuals doing that.




I'm not saying that this is what it is, don't misunderstand my intentions. I formed an idea, and presented that idea along with the logic I used to get to it. That simple. An idea is nothing more than that, an idea.


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18961753 - 10/10/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

But I have felt compelled to make a certain amount of moderate to high risk investments, and so, investing my mind with this possibility has positive consequences for my attitude, mood, and Joie de vivre.

Ah!  Such a wise man you are, such a wise move.  You seem to have put me to shame in this regard. :blush:

:thumbup::heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinestellarshnap
Poet who doesn't know it


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 646
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18961841 - 10/10/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I have felt compelled to make a certain amount of moderate to high risk investments, and so, investing my mind with this possibility has positive consequences for my attitude, mood, and Joie de vivre.




I guess you and I are simply two different people in the sense that investing my mind in the idea that this life is all you will have, when it's over, it's over, has done the same to me, as thinking the opposite has to you. When I first thought about this it incited a degree of nihilism and apathy in me, but then again at the time I was a teenager listening to Nirvana. It's to be expected. :lol: Now the idea that this is all I get just motivates me to have the best time I can, be the best person I can be, and do the most I can while I'm here. It also makes me extraordinarily grateful in general, because I feel unbelievably lucky to have had the chance to experience this flicker of perception we call life.


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


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InvisibleCactilove
Controversial Mystic
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18962020 - 10/10/13 11:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Must we cover this fallacy once a month always spouted off by people with nary an understanding of physics? Please explain how data = energy?



http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9230150/IBM_claims_spintronics_memory_breakthrough?pageNumber=1
^ Maybe that's how. I am far too ignorant to understand what the fuck they are really talking about, maybe someone with a higher intelligence can explain it.  :dawerp:

Quote:

Modern physics has discovered one of the greatest things ever discovered, and that is: matter is energy. That is the greatest contribution of Albert Einstein to humanity: e is equal to mc squared, matter is energy. This formula proposes that when a body has a mass, it has a certain amount of energy, even if it is at rest, and does not have any form of potential energy, chemical energy, etc, it still has that amount of energy. As opposed to the Newtonian mechanics in which a massive body could have no energy at all. That is why we often call the mass the rest energy of the body. The E of the formula can be seen as the total energy of the body, which is proportional to the mass only when the body is at rest.

Conversely, a cloud of photons travelling in empty space, with each photon having no rest mass, still have a mass, m, due to their kinetic energy.

This formula also gives the quantatative relation of energy and mass in any process when they transform into each other, such as a nuclear explosion. Then this E could be seen as the energy released when a certain amount of mass m is annihilated, or the energy absorbed to create a certain amount of mass m. In those cases, the energy released(absorbed) equals in quantity to the mass annihilated(created) times the speed of light squared. Eddington, one of the greatest scientists of this age, has said, "We used to think that matter is a thing; now it is no more so. Matter is more like a thought than like a thing."

Existence is energy. Science has discovered that the observed is energy, the object is energy. Down through the ages, at least for five thousand years, it has been known that the other polarity- the subject, the observer, consciousness- is energy.

Your body is energy, your mind is energy, your soul is energy. Then what is the difference between these three? The difference is only of a different rhythm, different wavelengths, that's all. The body is gross energy functioning in a gross way, in a visible way.

Mind is a little more subtle, but still not too subtle, because you can close your eyes and you can see the thoughts moving; they can be seen. They are not as visible as your body; your body is visible to everybody else, it is publicly visible. Your thoughts are privately visible. Nobody else can see your thoughts; only you can see them, or people who have worked very deeply into seeing thoughts. But ordinarily they are not visible to others.

And the third, the ultimate layer inside you, is that of consciousness. It is not even visible to you. It cannot be reduced to an object, it remains the subject.

If you dissect a painting, you will find the canvas and the colors, but the painting is not simply the sum total of the canvas and the colors; it is something more. That "something more" is expressed through the painting, the color, the canvas, the artist, but that "something more" is the beauty. Dissect the rose flower, and you will find all the chemicals and things it is constituted of, but the beauty will disappear. It was not just the sum total of the parts, it was more.

The whole is more than the sum total of the parts. It expresses itself through the parts but it is more. To understand that it is more is to understand the "divine". The divine is that more, that plus. It is not a question of theology; it cannot be decided by logical argumentation. You have to feel beauty, you have to feel music, you have to feel dance. And ultimately you have to feel the dance in your body, mind and soul.

I have come to my conclusions through meditation and intuition, not through the scientific method. Therefore, we are at odds because if I say anything that is not provable via the scientific method then it will be rendered false or useless. The scientific method is the bible of the scientific community, anything that is presented outside the guidelines of that bible is considered blasphemous. Therefore, I have nothing left to say to you, except that I have my own view of reality.



This made me want to smoke opium while re-reading it.

Quote:

Enlightenment or Salvation seems to consist in the illusion of our temporal identities falling away, and Awakening to the Realization that we've ALWAYS been the Eternal Logos. This is what awaits those who are duly prepared for death. The Buddhists call it the Clear Light. Christians call it the Kingdom of God or Heaven.



I suppose the makes me a fallen angel. :frown:
Sometimes I really miss the old days...
Maybe I will one day ascend once again.:shrug:
If not I am certainly grateful to have had the experience.


Edited by Cactilove (10/10/13 11:33 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Cactilove]
    #18962266 - 10/11/13 12:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

As a materialist I can't help but agree with the OP. In a more spiritual frame of mind it seems prudent to step back and see the mystery of life from a less personal view. Species come and go. Worlds come and go, and probably universes come and go. But these things, they are only qualities of reality. Even universes are just a quality. In that context there is nothing which represents a beginning and nothing which represents an end. There is only the ceaseless momentum... doing whatever it does.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
    #18962316 - 10/11/13 01:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

stellarshnap said:
Perhaps it's because I'm still young that I'm able to brush aside the idea of death so easily. But still when pondering it I feel nothing related to fear. In fact I think on a subconscious level I welcome my death. This world is full of pain, beauty, and more pain. Death honestly just seems like a wonderful escape.




"Knowledge comes with death's release."

For now, just enjoy the music. 



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleCactilove
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I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18962335 - 10/11/13 01:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

As a materialist I can't help but agree with the OP. In a more spiritual frame of mind it seems prudent to step back and see the mystery of life from a less personal view. Species come and go. Worlds come and go, and probably universes come and go. But these things, they are only qualities of reality. Even universes are just a quality. In that context there is nothing which represents a beginning and nothing which represents an end. There is only the ceaseless momentum... doing whatever it does.



That :feelsgoodman:  Digging it.


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.


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Offlinebigbrad
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Cactilove]
    #18962366 - 10/11/13 01:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

where am I?


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OfflineJaegar
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Registered: 05/04/09
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
    #18962369 - 10/11/13 01:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A Meatbag foretelling its future how original.


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Jaegar]
    #18962402 - 10/11/13 01:58 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Fuk i hate you cunts.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Jaegar]
    #18962440 - 10/11/13 02:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jaegar said:
Fuk i hate you cunts.




What a shame.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Jaegar]
    #18962642 - 10/11/13 05:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It's all you baby. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineConfettiHead
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
    #18962915 - 10/11/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Now the idea that this is all I get just motivates me to have the best time I can, be the best person I can be, and do the most I can while I'm here. It also makes me extraordinarily grateful in general, because I feel unbelievably lucky to have had the chance to experience this flicker of perception we call life.




See it does the exact opposite for me because of the amount of suffering I have been through. Multiple times I have been in a situation where I didn't know if I was going to survive simply because I didn't have enough food to eat. I have lived in substantial poverty for years and I don't have any family to help me. It's only been since May of 2012 that I've really started to have a somewhat normal life, simply because I worked my fucking ass off. When you're living homeless, nobody gives a shit about your situation. People think you are the scum of the earth and could care less if you live or die. Add not having a family (both parents are dead) to that and life is a pretty shitty reality.

I'm not saying this to show pride or anything, in fact, I'm not proud of a lot of the experiences I've had. I'm telling you this to explain that, if this life is all there is, then it ain't a thing of beauty. Why would I want to be a good person if I have suffered most of my life and now I'm going to die and descend into nothingness? In fact, if that is true, then I WANT to be a bad person, I WANT others to feel the pain I've felt, I WANT to wipe the smile off of these people who have had everything handed to them.

However, when I think...

"Maybe this isn't it"

"Keep pushing man, what you do here has eternal implications"

"Don't give up, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, even if it arrives at death, there is still a light"

"I've got nothing and no one left to turn to except the universe itself"

or like Markos said:

Quote:

But I have felt compelled to make a certain amount of moderate to high risk investments, and so, investing my mind with this possibility has positive consequences for my attitude, mood, and Joie de vivre.




Yes, when I think in this way, I want to become a better person, I want to live a more wholesome life, I want to achieve goals, etc.

So maybe my thinking is flawed. Maybe there is nothingness at the end. And if so, so be it. Like I have stated before, nobody REALLY knows for sure. But, if thinking the way I do helps me to lead a better life (no matter how untrue it may be) can it really be called wrong?


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Male


Registered: 03/15/05
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Loc: underbelly
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #18963113 - 10/11/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Good post. All beliefs are just that.  If your beliefs do not hurt others physically and if they help you then they are the most correct beliefs imo. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Icelander]
    #18963203 - 10/11/13 09:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
But I have felt compelled to make a certain amount of moderate to high risk investments, and so, investing my mind with this possibility has positive consequences for my attitude, mood, and Joie de vivre.

Ah!  Such a wise man you are, such a wise move.  You seem to have put me to shame in this regard. :blush:

:thumbup::heart:




And I am humbled by your response. :bow2:  All too often I have 'put all my eggs in one basket,' and suffered the consequences. To venture another financial metaphor, one needs to diversify the possibilities of our inevitable demise. This choice has the additional perk of offsetting death-anxiety a bit.  :shrug: Although, the developmental literature says that death-anxiety drops off among octogenarians. Although, my late 82 year old mother-in-law was still afraid of death, but on the day she died, toxicity from kidney failure rendered her delusional. She called us in the middle of the night to say that she was Barack Obama, and she wanted her limo to take her to D.C. immediately. I don't think Death phased her at all when he came. Sometimes nature can demonstrate kindness.

:death:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
    #18963245 - 10/11/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

stellarshnap said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I have felt compelled to make a certain amount of moderate to high risk investments, and so, investing my mind with this possibility has positive consequences for my attitude, mood, and Joie de vivre.




I guess you and I are simply two different people in the sense that investing my mind in the idea that this life is all you will have, when it's over, it's over, has done the same to me, as thinking the opposite has to you. When I first thought about this it incited a degree of nihilism and apathy in me, but then again at the time I was a teenager listening to Nirvana. It's to be expected. :lol: Now the idea that this is all I get just motivates me to have the best time I can, be the best person I can be, and do the most I can while I'm here. It also makes me extraordinarily grateful in general, because I feel unbelievably lucky to have had the chance to experience this flicker of perception we call life.




A Gnostic is a 'Knower,' as opposed to an Agnostic who doesn't Know. Like Socrates, "I Know that I don't Know," but I am living my life with the possibility that physical death will be identical to, or an even better condition that I experienced during the most profoundly mystical moment of my life. The letting go was not a tortured affair filled with fear, regret, helplessness or despair. It was like slipping into a hot bath, a warm cosmic vagina of soft Clear Light and Unbearable Compassion. The final thought was an ecstatic relief from a then, young lifetime of doubt and fear, and the Realization of Total Familiarity with Reality. I had always been THAT, and the life I was leaving had been a long dream from which I was Awakening in ecstatic gratitude. Then, thoughtless, nameless, memory-less Eternal Light-Life experiencing Itself. Mark was gone.  The Infinite Ocean of Light-Compassion turned into a Infinitesimal Point of Compassion in the twinkling of an eye, and that Point became a 'seed' that grew back into Mark from the Heart Center. And Mark returned to this life. That experience was 1974, and it lives within me and informs me to this moment. I expect to experience It again when I die, and again, It will Realize that It has always Been, and It will Awaken from the Mark dream. :peace:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: ConfettiHead]
    #18963275 - 10/11/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ConfettiHead said:
I see what you're saying, but what I meant by non-perceivable darkness is essentially "nothingness", I just said it in a more difficult way. I know that nothingness is not perceivable. However, darkness is perceivable. Therefore, non-perceivable darkness would be nothingness. I think you know what I meant.



People in this forum always think I'm playing word games or being pedantic, but I'm not. I was saying that non-perceivable darkness is not a possible answer to the question of "what will happen to me when I die." I am saying the concept is inherently incoherent.


--------------------


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