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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #18960401 - 10/10/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

what's liberal, is the liberal use of a newly found tidbit of only slightly relevant information to substantiate a cause for berating and being blind to the fact that said tidbit doesn't really answer to, or solve any real problems.

:shrug:

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm not concerned in the least about global warming.  It's undoubtedly caused by humans, but who cares?  Whatever is going to happen is inevitable.  These facts are not going to change:

1. We will burn every drop of oil that we can find and extract from the planet
2. We will burn every ton of coal that we can find and extract


Any discussion about what we "should" do is irrelevant simply because the above facts are not going to change.

As a result of the above, it really doesn't matter what the effects of global warming will be, since there's nothing we can do to avoid them.  Maybe some coastlines will change, but it's no skin off my dick since I won't be living at 20 ft MSL.



i'm pretty sure this is all Zappa's point is. that nothing is going to change as of yet, so what's the point aimlessly blithering about the subject?

i think, anyway... that would be my main point of contention here.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18960409 - 10/10/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Apparently being liberal is substantial evidence contradicting the conservative dogma.

Sorta like evolution.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18960413 - 10/10/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You seem to misunderstand what science is.  Science can rarely give us a 100% positive answer to any question.  That's not really how it works.  That's why we have theories like evolution that will likely always remain theories despite the fact that they are universally accepted as true.

You can pretend to know what you're talking about, but you clearly don't.  Computer models are routinely used in science, and the fact that you reject them out of hand just means that you're living in the 60's when you went to college.

You're free to reject the conclusions of nearly every expert in the field.  At this point, however, you're just starting to sound like another :tinfoil: who thinks he's got the inside track on what's really happening while all of the sheeple are falling for the "official story."




You haven't produced one single study that establishes human generated global warming to within statistical significance.  Do you know why you haven't?  Because there isn't one.  And you have the unmitigated gall to tell me I don't know how science works?  I reject computer models that fail to predict.  The globullshit climate models have been woefully inadequate in the prediction realm.  That is all of what science is about,  Predicting.  For instance I can predict, thanks to science, that when I flip a light switch the light will go on.  If it doesn't, science tells me there is something wrong in the circuit and this is always correct.  It is never because the model of electromagnetic field theory is wrong.  Climate modelers need to scrap their models because they do not predict accurately.  That is a fact, not an interpretation..


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18960424 - 10/10/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Zappa: Science is all about predicting.


Think you just disqualified yourself from any credible retort.



Example: The same percentage of doctors/scientists believe smoking cigs causes cancer. You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.




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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #18960426 - 10/10/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Apparently being liberal is substantial evidence contradicting the conservative dogma.

Sorta like evolution.




Denying evolution is not a feature of conservatism.


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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18960434 - 10/10/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Dear god...

Zap: Do you have any idea how stupid you sound like in this thread??? This is borderline reddit material...


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
    #18960444 - 10/10/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

only this thread?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #18960449 - 10/10/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Example: The same percentage of doctors/scientists believe smoking cigs causes cancer. You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.






um, why not, exactly? scientist's beliefs dictate other's beliefs? unless the fact is proof, then what can't people do with it?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #18960452 - 10/10/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.






Dude, my dad smoked for 60 years, and he didn't get cancer, so those doctors are wrong.  It's just that simple.  IT'S NOT SCIENCE!


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18960458 - 10/10/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Example: The same percentage of doctors/scientists believe smoking cigs causes cancer. You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.






um, why not, exactly? scientist's beliefs dictate other's beliefs? unless the fact is proof, then what can't people do with it?




The point is that they aren't beliefs, they're facts.

If you wanna deny the reality of carcinogens (or gravity), light up a smoke and go jump off a cliff.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
    #18960463 - 10/10/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Dear god...

Zap: Do you have any idea how stupid you sound like in this thread??? This is borderline reddit material...



Show me the study that establishes AGW.  Evolution denial is not, sad to say for the liberals, a feature of conservatism.  It certainly isn't a feature of my conservatism.

I am dead serious.  There are several of you here babbling about AGW.  Fucking prove it.  There have been scientists trying to do it for decades.  None of them have.  If one of them has let's see it.  I'm wide open.  Show me.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18960470 - 10/10/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I'm wide open. 



Clearly.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18960475 - 10/10/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, you nor anyone else can give an explanation about specificity of what goes into creating a particular cancer, and understand rates of specific cancers in the population, to give an explanation of what specific causes there are and in what rates of exposure to carcinogens there are and where, and what exactly they are, altogether.

certain science doesn't provide a complete "truth". it can provide a picture, and people will often distort their views in order to fit into that picture. doesn't make it right.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18960476 - 10/10/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.






Dude, my dad smoked for 60 years, and he didn't get cancer, so those doctors are wrong.  It's just that simple.  IT'S NOT SCIENCE!




Sadly, this is how people think. People who value (irrelevant) personal experience over empirical evidence.

The same type of people who get lucky with their careers, then deem all people less wealthy than them lazy.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #18960492 - 10/10/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Example: The same percentage of doctors/scientists believe smoking cigs causes cancer. You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.






um, why not, exactly? scientist's beliefs dictate other's beliefs? unless the fact is proof, then what can't people do with it?




The point is that they aren't beliefs, they're facts.

If you wanna deny the reality of carcinogens (or gravity), light up a smoke and go jump off a cliff.



what? no one is debating that. they are facts. but it is incomplete information to state what, if anything, is the cause FOR CONCERN, after becoming aware of the current models relevance; which is slim to none.

some poignant questions have been posed... like since there have concurrent "climate warmth" during other periods of human civilization, too. what can account for those?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18960494 - 10/10/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.






Dude, my dad smoked for 60 years, and he didn't get cancer, so those doctors are wrong.  It's just that simple.  IT'S NOT SCIENCE!



There are studies that establish more than a correlation but a causation to cancer due to smoking.  Would you care to produce one that does the same for AGW?  Take your time.  I probably have a few years left.

Did you know that ice core data tend to suggest that CO2 rise follows global temperature rise

Quote:

There is, however, still a degree of uncertainty about which came first—a spike in temperature or CO2. Until now, the most comprehensive records to date on a major change in Earth’s climate came from the EPICA Dome C ice core on the Antarctic Plateau. The data, covering the end of the last ice age, between 20,000 and 10,000 years ago, show that CO2 levels could have lagged behind rising global temperatures by as much as 1,400 years. “The idea that there was a lag of CO2 behind temperature is something climate change skeptics pick on,” says Edward Brook of Oregon State University’s College of Earth, Ocean and Atmospheric Sciences. “They say, ‘How could CO2 levels affect global temperature when you are telling me the temperature changed first?’”




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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18960529 - 10/10/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not going to produce anything else, zappa, because you'll just miss the overall point.  That point being:


YOU ARE NOT AN EXPERT AND ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO CRITIQUE OR INTERPRET THE RESULTS OF OTHER SCIENTISTS.

That's the point.  You've chosen your belief, and you've found a few experts that agree.  The rest of the experts disagree, but you simply reject them out of hand as if you have the first fucking clue what you're talking about.  You don't.  You don't know jack shit about any of it, but because you took a few classes in college, you think you're qualified to critique the work of scientists.

Scientists routinely look at each other's work critically...and in the case of AGW, the vast majority agree that global warming is caused by human activity. 

I hate relying on the expertise of others, but that's all we have here.  You can play expert all you want in this thread, but you really don't know shit about it.  I don't either.  The only difference between us is that I have chosen to trust the 97% instead of the 3%.


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: topdog82]
    #18960662 - 10/10/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
So i have met probably 4 conservatives my entire life.




Lucky fuck.

I dont believe its co2 and its somehow special to our time. I am not a conservative either.

:shrug:


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18960669 - 10/10/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
1. We will burn every drop of oil that we can find and extract from the planet




Except for what we make into plastics and ultimately bury in landfills, locking up the carbon safely underground again in a stable form. :wink:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: psi]
    #18960694 - 10/10/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
1. We will burn every drop of oil that we can find and extract from the planet




Except for what we make into plastics and ultimately bury in landfills, locking up the carbon safely underground again in a stable form. :wink:




I'm curious what the ratio is. But not curious enough to google it myself :bonghit:


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