|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
MystiqueMushroom

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 4,737
Loc: PNW
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#18959378 - 10/10/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I still believe in you website123
|
website123
master in flinging nails

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 182
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#18959577 - 10/10/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:

Sorry we're all being buzz kills. Hope you get to where you want to go, you can get there if you keep learning and applying yourself. Just make sure you can verify you've done right before you eat anything...
sure man!
|
Rauhfasertapete
The Final Cauliflower of Doom!



Registered: 02/22/13 
Posts: 214
Loc: Upper Franconia
Last seen: 8 years, 16 days
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: website123]
#18959662 - 10/10/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
website123 said:
oh, thats.... well... thanks for the info.. i really dont know that other toxins that we can make  they arent all discovered yet?
I´m following this thread because it´s always good for a laugh. website 123, you have some huge gaps in your knowledge. Didn´t you know that the identification and description of the ergot alkaloids and their derivates were the original purpose of Hofmann´s research? He kept his stuff under strict absence of air because he didn´t know what the vapours could to to him; also in order to keep it from degrading. Really, don´t do that. You´ll get caught buying laboratory equipment, which is suspicious as you´re a private person (the DEA may think you´re into amphetamines or something). Or you´ll inhale something really shitty. The safety precautions for such a project are already more expensive than your 400 to 800$. You need a laboratory and one or two decades of experience.
By the way, do you grow the plants in a greenhouse or in a garden? Had any yield yet? It may take a few years to get a kg from a few plants, and if you´ve got that much LSA, what´s the point in making LSD from them? A clean extraction of LSA and a separation from all those substances that cause the nasty side effects would be an interesting thing... but I guess separating different very similar alkaloids from each other is already a bit too tricky...
-------------------- Ich will Eins werden mit dem Gewürm auf dem Felde! if mutual gift exchange is desired, follow this link
|
website123
master in flinging nails

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 182
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: website123]
#18959703 - 10/10/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
website123 said:
Quote:
D.M.T said: Dichloromethane is the solvent you wanna use. However I don't think they're gonna react the way you think they will. Synthesizing diethylamine yourself from DEET and using a peptide coupling reagent are your best bet. This could actually be done but is gonna cost you $50,000 to get started. At that cost and the extra steps as well as lower yield the old methods are superior. of course I have no idea what I'm talking about. 
thanks! done a search and you are right,ill fix the synth.. just that im not going to buy 50000 in equipment... my synth costs aroung 400-800 dollars, the most expencive thing is the lsa from argyrea that in my case will cost like nothing because i am growing 13m of it in my meadow house 
ooooowww ow ow! no way! Dichloromethane will degrade LSD! in fact both of us are wrong... i shoud use a NOCl and ethanol in this case Cl will evaporate and not degrade the LSD...
|
rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: Rauhfasertapete]
#18959719 - 10/10/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
...
Edited by rikuni (03/16/14 05:12 AM)
|
website123
master in flinging nails

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 182
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: rikuni]
#18959833 - 10/10/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rauhfasertapete said:
Quote:
website123 said:
oh, thats.... well... thanks for the info.. i really dont know that other toxins that we can make  they arent all discovered yet?
I´m following this thread because it´s always good for a laugh. website 123, you have some huge gaps in your knowledge. Didn´t you know that the identification and description of the ergot alkaloids and their derivates were the original purpose of Hofmann´s research? He kept his stuff under strict absence of air because he didn´t know what the vapours could to to him; also in order to keep it from degrading. Really, don´t do that. You´ll get caught buying laboratory equipment, which is suspicious as you´re a private person (the DEA may think you´re into amphetamines or something). Or you´ll inhale something really shitty. The safety precautions for such a project are already more expensive than your 400 to 800$. You need a laboratory and one or two decades of experience.
By the way, do you grow the plants in a greenhouse or in a garden? Had any yield yet? It may take a few years to get a kg from a few plants, and if you´ve got that much LSA, what´s the point in making LSD from them? A clean extraction of LSA and a separation from all those substances that cause the nasty side effects would be an interesting thing... but I guess separating different very similar alkaloids from each other is already a bit too tricky...
see there, ive changed it... its safer now of course thet when dealing with nytrosyl chloride you shoud use a closed fume screen...
|
Rauhfasertapete
The Final Cauliflower of Doom!



Registered: 02/22/13 
Posts: 214
Loc: Upper Franconia
Last seen: 8 years, 16 days
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: rikuni]
#18959839 - 10/10/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Actually I´d even prefer LSA over LSD if the side-effects weren´t so horrible. Hey website 123, have you found any viable method to get you LSA pure? I mean not just getting an alkaloid-extract, but a solution with only LSA in it?
-------------------- Ich will Eins werden mit dem Gewürm auf dem Felde! if mutual gift exchange is desired, follow this link
|
website123
master in flinging nails

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 182
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: website123]
#18959847 - 10/10/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rauhfasertapete said:
I´m following this thread because it´s always good for a laugh. website 123, you have some huge gaps in your knowledge. Didn´t you know that the identification and description of the ergot alkaloids and their derivates were the original purpose of Hofmann´s research? He kept his stuff under strict absence of air because he didn´t know what the vapours could to to him; also in order to keep it from degrading. Really, don´t do that. You´ll get caught buying laboratory equipment, which is suspicious as you´re a private person (the DEA may think you´re into amphetamines or something). Or you´ll inhale something really shitty. The safety precautions for such a project are already more expensive than your 400 to 800$. You need a laboratory and one or two decades of experience.
in fact ive said that it is easy, not to anyone do it in the kitchen i have a laboratory(not complete yet ) in my home and ill use some safe mask, safe gloves and a closed fume screen
|
website123
master in flinging nails

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 182
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: Rauhfasertapete]
#18959865 - 10/10/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rauhfasertapete said: Actually I´d even prefer LSA over LSD if the side-effects weren´t so horrible. Hey website 123, have you found any viable method to get you LSA pure? I mean not just getting an alkaloid-extract, but a solution with only LSA in it?
sure man, 95% pure shoud work... look at the synth... thats what ive made there, only then I could work with it and the process that ur talking about is called defating
Edited by website123 (10/10/13 03:12 PM)
|
D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant



Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: website123]
#18959923 - 10/10/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Just a thought but you could try asking your professor in a hypothetical manner what he thinks might work (if he isn't a total square - you don't want him to report you of course). Heck he might even give you a hand and let you use his lab space (this would be a LOT more safer I think). A lot more research needs to be done. Try doing more simple things like converting 2C-I to 25I-NBOMe first, you could probably do that in your kitchen and cheap, then work your way up making a better understanding.
The thing about attempting all of this is you stir too long, too little, and you get a toxic sludge. Can't control the air, temperature, lighing just perfectly, then you could very well go ka-boom. Don't give up on the idea though we need more people to be dedicated enough to the cause.
Personally I think you should strip the home lab idea altogether not only because of the dangers but because you've posted about it on a public forum. Hopefully you're hidden deep in proxies and other anonymity.
LSA to LSD probably won't get you the purity ergotamine tartrate will. But I don't see why DEET > Diethylamine + PyPOB wouldn't be able to yield LSD.
|
modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,229
Loc: Zone 13
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: D.M.T]
#18960238 - 10/10/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Sounds like your following the 'Method X' synthesis remember this is only theoretical and hasn't been proven to work (as far as I'm aware). To my knowledge there are people that are attempting this to see if it is possible. I have no chemistry background so I can't help.
|
website123
master in flinging nails

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 182
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: D.M.T]
#18960415 - 10/10/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
D.M.T said: Just a thought but you could try asking your professor in a hypothetical manner what he thinks might work (if he isn't a total square - you don't want him to report you of course). Heck he might even give you a hand and let you use his lab space (this would be a LOT more safer I think). A lot more research needs to be done. Try doing more simple things like converting 2C-I to 25I-NBOMe first, you could probably do that in your kitchen and cheap, then work your way up making a better understanding.
ive done alod of extractions, from psylocin to menthol, dont know if that counts 
Quote:
The thing about attempting all of this is you stir too long, too little, and you get a toxic sludge. Can't control the air, temperature, lighing just perfectly, then you could very well go ka-boom. Don't give up on the idea though we need more people to be dedicated enough to the cause.
Personally I think you should strip the home lab idea altogether not only because of the dangers but because you've posted about it on a public forum. Hopefully you're hidden deep in proxies and other anonymity.
relax man, i have my ways! 
Quote:
LSA to LSD probably won't get you the purity ergotamine tartrate will. But I don't see why DEET > Diethylamine + PyPOB wouldn't be able to yield LSD.
uhm... the "Method X" huh? they say it wont work... but, look where we are, right? it could fit perfectly if we coud get that aromatic ring away... any ideas?
|
Rauhfasertapete
The Final Cauliflower of Doom!



Registered: 02/22/13 
Posts: 214
Loc: Upper Franconia
Last seen: 8 years, 16 days
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: website123]
#18960499 - 10/10/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
website123 said:
Quote:
Rauhfasertapete said: Actually I�d even prefer LSA over LSD if the side-effects weren�t so horrible. Hey website 123, have you found any viable method to get you LSA pure? I mean not just getting an alkaloid-extract, but a solution with only LSA in it?
sure man, 95% pure shoud work... look at the synth... thats what ive made there, only then I could work with it and the process that ur talking about is called defating
Quote:
website123 said:
Quote:
Rauhfasertapete said: Actually I´d even prefer LSA over LSD if the side-effects weren´t so horrible. Hey website 123, have you found any viable method to get you LSA pure? I mean not just getting an alkaloid-extract, but a solution with only LSA in it?
sure man, 95% pure shoud work... look at the synth... thats what ive made there, only then I could work with it and the process that ur talking about is called defating
No, defatting is not what I mean. With your acid base extraction you extract not only all the different alkaloids of the plant, but almost everything that is alkaline. LSA may be among the main alkaloids of the plant, but there are some more, and you will extract them as well with your method. I dont think you can use that juice to make anything pure from it. Imagine what happens with those other alkaloids when you proceed with the process? You may turn a lot of different unknown substances in something that is even more unknown. You need to find some kind of fractioning method or something.
-------------------- Ich will Eins werden mit dem Gewürm auf dem Felde! if mutual gift exchange is desired, follow this link
|
D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant



Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: modern.shaman]
#18960515 - 10/10/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
modern.shaman said: Sounds like your following the 'Method X' synthesis remember this is only theoretical and hasn't been proven to work (as far as I'm aware). To my knowledge there are people that are attempting this to see if it is possible. I have no chemistry background so I can't help.
"Method X", eh? You mean there's a name to it? and here I was thinking I was being innovative.
I googled it.. Not quite what I was thinking, you could definitely kill yourself doing it this "Uncle Fester" dude's way. it could work still I think..there's flaws.. BUT
I did some further Googling however and found it HAS been done in the same vein as what I was going for, check this out, he even uses Dichloromethane as a solvent per my suggestion:
Quote:
2.80 grams of lysergic acid was added to 100 ml of magnetically stirring CH2Cl2. To this was added 1.81 grams di-N-ethyl-mono-N-methylamine and the solution was allowed to stir for five minutes. Then 5.70 grams of PyPOB was added and the solution was allowed to stir for an additional five minutes. Then 0.84 grams of diethylamine was added and the reaction was allowed to stir at RT for 60 minutes.
The reaction mixture was quenched with 100 ml of 7.5M concentrated NH4OH, the layers were separated and the aqueous phase was then thrice extracted with 30 ml CH2Cl2, the organic layers were combined and rotary evaporated at 35°C under high vacuum.
The residue was dissolved in 40 ml of cold saturated NaHCO3 and extracted thrice with 20 ml EtOAc, the organic layers were combined and washed with deionized H2O, brine, and then dried over MgSO4, filtered and rotary evaporated at 40°C under high vacuum to a constant weight. Yield 3.13 grams before chromatography, 93%.
Another run of 5.12 grams lysergic acid with the same amines, equivalents, and times, yielded 5.55 grams after chromatography, 90%.
Still you are going to need to synth diethylamine from DEET. Not sure of a way around that.
also turns out the guy who did that TEK was arrested right after. he had a nice looking lab in his own home as well: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/southern_counties/4362841.stm
|
website123
master in flinging nails

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 182
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: D.M.T]
#18960626 - 10/10/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
D.M.T said:
Still you are going to need to synth diethylamine from DEET. Not sure of a way around that.
also turns out the guy who did that TEK was arrested right after. he had a nice looking lab in his own home as well: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/southern_counties/4362841.stm
maaan... that looks fucking serious!  dont forget that everything that we are talking about here is mere hypothesis!
|
website123
master in flinging nails

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 182
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: Rauhfasertapete]
#18960676 - 10/10/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rauhfasertapete said:
Quote:
website123 said:
Quote:
Rauhfasertapete said: Actually I´d even prefer LSA over LSD if the side-effects weren´t so horrible. Hey website 123, have you found any viable method to get you LSA pure? I mean not just getting an alkaloid-extract, but a solution with only LSA in it?
sure man, 95% pure shoud work... look at the synth... thats what ive made there, only then I could work with it and the process that ur talking about is called defating
No, defatting is not what I mean. With your acid base extraction you extract not only all the different alkaloids of the plant, but almost everything that is alkaline. LSA may be among the main alkaloids of the plant, but there are some more, and you will extract them as well with your method. I dont think you can use that juice to make anything pure from it. Imagine what happens with those other alkaloids when you proceed with the process? You may turn a lot of different unknown substances in something that is even more unknown. You need to find some kind of fractioning method or something.
i dont know if ur aware of that but.. defating is not only getting out the fat but alot of other organics too! and when LSD is basic, it is soluble in almost any solvent but acid it is more difficult to dilute.. so in my extraction i mix it with tartaric acid and put some toluene... that getting off the majority of the problem alkaloids! pleasse, if you want to know more about it see LSD chromatography
|
D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant



Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: website123]
#18960693 - 10/10/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
yes but looks a lot safer and less flaws to make than "Method X". I'm surprised the guy from the tek I posted was able to get in the 90s of purity. 3 to 5 grams yield - not that bad at all. I was thinking the purity range would be more in the 75-85% range with an LSA>LSD tek. geez just think about Owsley and Pickard pulling kilograms of LSD though.
|
Rauhfasertapete
The Final Cauliflower of Doom!



Registered: 02/22/13 
Posts: 214
Loc: Upper Franconia
Last seen: 8 years, 16 days
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: website123]
#18961135 - 10/10/13 07:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I´m aware that defatting means to get rid of everything that is soluble in nonpolar solvent. Alkaloids are usually soluble in nonpolar solvents too. So the toluene washing would be the first step where you fail.
I don´t know much about chemistry, but I can´t see how you get the LSA separated from anything in that recipe. You´ve got to read about how to do a proper acid base extraction with a defatting step. After having succeeded with that, you´ve got a mixture of different alkaloids, but still don´t know how to separate the LSA from the others. That´s the point where it gets expensive.
Edit: Now I´ve just seen that the order of adding toluene and tartaric acid is wrong in your recipe. But having read your last post, I can assume you at least have an idea about the extraction. But its still a dirty soup.
-------------------- Ich will Eins werden mit dem Gewürm auf dem Felde! if mutual gift exchange is desired, follow this link
Edited by Rauhfasertapete (10/10/13 07:40 PM)
|
modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,229
Loc: Zone 13
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: Rauhfasertapete]
#18961165 - 10/10/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Hydrolysis
|
rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
|
Re: LSD <--- improving the synthesis and doing it eazy!!! [Re: modern.shaman]
#18962621 - 10/11/13 04:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
...
Edited by rikuni (03/16/14 05:12 AM)
|
|