|
starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Lynnch]
#18957184 - 10/09/13 11:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Lynnch said: Therefore we should accept smog, acid rain, and oil spills in our oceans as just natural occurrences.
Who said that? Just because people don't believe in global warming doesn't mean they want the planet poisoned.
--------------------
    [/url] [/url]
IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH
|
Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal] 1
#18957832 - 10/10/13 03:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Patlal said: It does exist, it's been proven 2 or 3 weeks ago. The earth is warming due to human activity and scientist are now 98% sure of it. It was a study made in collaboration of hundreds of scientist worldwide and confirmed by several hundreds more to see if the proper scientific method had been used. It was.
It used to be a 50/50 thing that was unproven so people could be either for or against. Now the evidence is overwhelming. I had to completely change my view on the environment 3 weeks ago, I was part of the clan that it was the natural cycle of things, but apparently it's not that.
As a brand new environmentalist, I have to adjust my behaviors and my views about everyday living. I now have to support ideas like carbon taxes and clean energy and stuff. Even if it costs billions.
Its kinda weird, its not a hippy bandwagon anymore, its proven scientific fact. I am a man of science.
This sounds like something one would read in the Onion. First, it sounds like it's coming from someone that does so little thinking on their own that they are immediately and completely swayed by any report, regardless of where it's from, so long as they can invoke the holy name of Science! And yes, that's what you and everyone else these days is doing with this "I am a man of science" nonsense. Blindly following authority is not science. The best you can honestly say is that you have not researched it, you don't know the first thing about it, and you really do not know. As if the IPCC suddenly took this stance 2 or 3 week ago, lol.
From the IPCC Fourth Assessmnet Report in 2007
"Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations."
Very likely and likely mean "the assessed likelihood, using expert judgment" are over 90% and over 66%, respectively.
From the IPCC Third Assessment Report in 2001:
"There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities"
The IPCC has always had the same agenda. It is not an executor of scientific method. As stated on its website, it does not conduct any research nor does it monitor climate related data or parameters.
The way "climate science" typically works is that anything that supports the claim, whatever it happens to be that day, is trumpeted and any data that is neutral or contradicts it is ignored because, after all, anyone with the position that the work they are doing is aimed to "stop" "climate change" has the moral high ground because their work aims to save all life on Earth and anyone who doesn't acquiesce utterly is a "denier", kinda like in the Inquisition. Worse, the sacred peer-review process, which is the foundation of the "integrity" of "climate science" is corrupt and "climate science" is ruining the legacy of scientific method and has created a new dogma that one could call Scientism, or more simply, "Science!".
Look at physics by comparison, a pure science, incorruptible by the kind of bullshit that has lead the climate discussion to where it is now.
There is no way to cleanly refute by experiment a claim like "It is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century". What the hell kind of claim is that anyway? The "95% Certain" thing is basically an estimate of congruity of judgement of all the different people involved of the soundness of the thousands or more different claims being made. The conclusion itself has nothing whatsoever to do with scientific method. The many facets of the experimental data comprised of timelines, computer models, CO2 levels, assertions of causality, etc, would all need to be judged on their own merits and once you start getting into that you see that it's all so convoluted and subject to various data integrity issues, incongruous info, bunk computer models, lapses in judgement and outright bias, not to mention the fact that 50 years is a nano-fraction of a blink of climate history, that it begins to look pretty foolish to walk into the middle of all this and just go, "The debate is settled" or some other nonsense that journalists, activist politicians and scientists, and infotainment consumers love to spout. The debate over what? What are we even talking about? CO2? It's never even been established empirically that this is anything more than correlation much less to what extent anthropogenic emissions are purported to have an impact.
The reality is nobody actually knows what the fuck is going on and anyone who thinks they know what is happening, in a dynamic system like Earth's climate, is full of shit at a certain point(guess that's the missing 5% huh?)
Yes, it's reasonable to presume that human activity is having an impact on Earth's climate. Why can't everyone just admit we don't really know the extent, much less what the ideal state of the climate is, given that such a static condition could or should ever by imposed on a constantly changing system, and start spending all this research money and mental energy on the only thing that's going to make a scintilla of difference to the whole equation - new tech. Even if all the carbon tax in the world were imposed tomorrow it wouldn't change what climate alarmists purport that it would. Or would it? We don't really know do we because correlation vs. causation with CO2 hasn't been empirically demonstrated, "climate science" is just banking on causation. So then the typical response to this is something to the effect of "Well, it's theoretically possible that we'll burn off the atmosphere by 2050 so just in case we'd better do X". But the world doesn't and can't work that way. There has to be a cost benefit analysis. Plus we have no idea how any policy scheme would actually work out, much less that it is operating on all the(assumed)correct principles.
And I'll say it again, only new and developing technology will bring about any significant difference in how the human organism powers it endeavors. And stop demonizing energy companies. Who do you think is going to develop the tech, the UN? Lol.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18958784 - 10/10/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The IPCC report is not a study.
You haven't read it, so you're talking out of your ass.
They don't do studies
--------------------
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18958825 - 10/10/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
The report is an assessment of MANY studies conducted by MANY scientists around the world.
You still have missed the point, however. You can't find a single national or international scientific body that is of the opinion that global warming is not due to human activities.
The best you can come up with is an odd scientist here or there that has some theory that has been widely rejected...along with your agenda-driven sources.
If you want to argue that climate change is due to natural cycles, that's fine...but you're in the extreme minority within the scientific community. Republicans tend to agree with you, of course, but almost every expert, republican, democrat, or other, doesn't.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,103
Loc: Raccoon City
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18958850 - 10/10/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
As well as not performing the studies personally, they also say that they will not form an opinion, based on the studies.
You're telling us to read this compilation of data, in support of your opinion.
Again, I believe that global warming does exist, but on a 15-30 year cycle, and throughout the entire solar system.
|
Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,812
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 6 hours, 34 minutes
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18958857 - 10/10/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: The report is an assessment of MANY studies conducted by MANY scientists around the world.
You still have missed the point, however. You can't find a single national or international scientific body that is of the opinion that global warming is not due to human activities.
The best you can come up with is an odd scientist here or there that has some theory that has been widely rejected...along with your agenda-driven sources.
If you want to argue that climate change is due to natural cycles, that's fine...but you're in the extreme minority within the scientific community. Republicans tend to agree with you, of course, but almost every expert, republican, democrat, or other, doesn't.
Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike/can't handle change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done. Scientist actually found that their ammygdala are bigger than average people. The amygdala is what processes fear and doubt.
--------------------
Edited by Patlal (10/10/13 11:23 AM)
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18958865 - 10/10/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: The report is an assessment of MANY studies conducted by MANY scientists around the world.
That is the first correct thing you have said about it. It is a political paper and not a science paperQuote:
You still have missed the point, however. You can't find a single national or international scientific body that is of the opinion that global warming is not due to human activities.
I can find lots of scientists who do. International scientific bodies are political agencies. I don't care about their opinion, I want their proof before we go off half cocked ruining the West's economy.Quote:
The best you can come up with is an odd scientist here or there that has some theory that has been widely rejected...along with your agenda-driven sources.
There is not one single scientific study that establishes human activity as contributing to global warming or that global warming requires an explanation that is not normal natural variability. See Phil Jones, HAD CRUT tool, admitting that there were at least three other periods in recorded history that had similar increases to the one that ended 15 years ago.Quote:
If you want to argue that climate change is due to natural cycles, that's fine...but you're in the extreme minority within the scientific community. Republicans tend to agree with you, of course, but almost every expert, republican, democrat, or other, doesn't.
They gain money and recognition scaring people.
--------------------
|
dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
#18958867 - 10/10/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
If global warming is real why not have China and India do some shit with all those billions of people and we have not nearly as much
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18958880 - 10/10/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Enlil said: The report is an assessment of MANY studies conducted by MANY scientists around the world.
You still have missed the point, however. You can't find a single national or international scientific body that is of the opinion that global warming is not due to human activities.
The best you can come up with is an odd scientist here or there that has some theory that has been widely rejected...along with your agenda-driven sources.
If you want to argue that climate change is due to natural cycles, that's fine...but you're in the extreme minority within the scientific community. Republicans tend to agree with you, of course, but almost every expert, republican, democrat, or other, doesn't.
Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Show me the proof and I'll go for it. Absent that it is ridiculous to effect the cure proposed. It is like ordering chemotherapy before you even diagnose cancer.
We need fusion or we are well and truly fucked anyway.
--------------------
|
durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,103
Loc: Raccoon City
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: dark3st]
#18958892 - 10/10/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
The American, Sanger, founded abortion clinics. Our eugenics programs were praised by Hitler himself.
China and India both support sterilizations and abortion with incentives, or by force.
This brings up an important point, that conservation means rationing, and rationing means preference.
Environmentalism would necessarily result in eugenics.
|
Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,812
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 6 hours, 34 minutes
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18958895 - 10/10/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Enlil said: The report is an assessment of MANY studies conducted by MANY scientists around the world.
You still have missed the point, however. You can't find a single national or international scientific body that is of the opinion that global warming is not due to human activities.
The best you can come up with is an odd scientist here or there that has some theory that has been widely rejected...along with your agenda-driven sources.
If you want to argue that climate change is due to natural cycles, that's fine...but you're in the extreme minority within the scientific community. Republicans tend to agree with you, of course, but almost every expert, republican, democrat, or other, doesn't.
Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Show me the proof and I'll go for it. Absent that it is ridiculous to effect the cure proposed. It is like ordering chemotherapy before you even diagnose cancer.
We need fusion or we are well and truly fucked anyway.
Well, when the world's top scientist realease a 2200 page paper that comes to the conclusion that it is 95% likely that humans are responsible for global warming, I tend to respect that and consider it as a fact. Who am I to argue the results of the world's top scientists?
--------------------
|
luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal] 1
#18958897 - 10/10/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Patlal said: Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Pretty dumb statement.
The reason many don't buy into this shit based upon what we know now is because many of us not only pay attention to what both "sides" say, but we've lived through a great many "the sky is falling" crises which turned out to be a load of shit.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
|
Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,812
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 6 hours, 34 minutes
|
|
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Pretty dumb statement.
The reason many don't buy into this shit based upon what we know now is because many of us not only pay attention to what both "sides" say, but we've lived through a great many "the sky is falling" crises which turned out to be a load of shit.
It's not gonna cause the end of the world. But it's going to create significant challenges in the future which could be lessened if we act now. It's always better to prevent that to react.
Both "sides". Right now side one has 95% and side 2 has 5%. And that's not a political opinion. It's scientific research
--------------------
|
dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
#18958918 - 10/10/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
durian_2008 said: The American, Sanger, founded abortion clinics. Our eugenics programs were praised by Hitler himself.
China and India both support sterilizations and abortion with incentives, or by force.
This brings up an important point, that conservation means rationing, and rationing means preference.
Environmentalism would necessarily result in eugenics.
But China and India both have a billion + people. I'm seeing no progress from them other than placing backdoors in computers RAM and anywhere else they can mange. Fuck em
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
|
durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,103
Loc: Raccoon City
|
|
The paper neither draws conclusions nor takes credit for the research. If you were to actually begin reading, you would have seen so many disclaimers, within the first ten pages.
As for change, what about the rolling stone which gathers no moss. Artists say there is a certain point, in which another brush stroke will destroy the masterpiece.
We say, if it's not broken, don't fix it, because the fix would usually be wasteful.
|
dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18958937 - 10/10/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
"The sky is falling" reaction (IMO) is stuff like 2012, Y2K bullshit. Just as many believe in global warming (IME)
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Pretty dumb statement.
The reason many don't buy into this shit based upon what we know now is because many of us not only pay attention to what both "sides" say, but we've lived through a great many "the sky is falling" crises which turned out to be a load of shit.
It's not gonna cause the end of the world. But it's going to create significant challenges in the future which could be lessened if we act now. It's always better to prevent that to react.
Both "sides". Right now side one has 95% and side 2 has 5%. And that's not a political opinion. It's scientific research
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
|
durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,103
Loc: Raccoon City
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: dark3st]
#18958951 - 10/10/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I see that I've been talking informally, but which percentage of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere are manmade. Do any of the alarmists have a solid, and consequential figure, or do you mainly like to delegate.
|
luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18958959 - 10/10/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Periods of increased temperatures have somehow coincided with the periods of great advancement in human history. Isn't that amazing?
When you've personally queried all the worlds climate scientist you let me know. 95% might actually mean something then. While doing so remind yourself that the predictions of doom and gloom have fallen flat and that few, if any, of the climate models have even been close to accurate.
The MSM is on-board and the odds of hearing the dissenting voices are pretty slim. It's become a more religion than an actual religion.
But hey, let Mother Earth know that we have it all figured out. I'm sure she'll be delighted.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18958968 - 10/10/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
There is not one single scientific study that establishes human activity as contributing to global warming or that global warming requires an explanation that is not normal natural variability.
Not one you've read, of course...but there are many such studies:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.2337&rep=rep1&type=pdf "None of the natural processes can account for the overall warming trend in global surface temperatures. In the 100 years from 1905 to 2005, the temperature trends produce by all three natural influences are at least an order of magnitude smaller than the observed surface temperature trend reported by IPCC [2007]."
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?2000ESASP.463..201T&data_type=PDF_HIGH&whole_paper=YES&type=PRINTER&filetype=.pdf "our results strongly suggest that anthropogenic forcings have been the dominant cause of temperature changes over the last 30 to 50 years."
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/1520-0442%282004%29017%3C3721%3ACONAAF%3E2.0.CO%3B2 "The late-twentieth-century warming can only be reproduced in the model with anthropogenic forcing"
http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/improved-constraints-on-21st-century-warming-derived-using-160-years-of-temperature-observations.pdf "we detect a response to changes in greenhouse gases, aerosols and natural forcings in the full 1851–2010 instrumental temperature record, and find that greenhouse-gas-induced warming was significantly larger than the observed warming over the 1951–2000 period"
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,103
Loc: Raccoon City
|
|
During all of that progress, figures for anthropogenic gases have fallen under one percentage point.
I don't use very much, personally, but the math doesn't justify me taking it from you.
|
|