|
stellarshnap
Poet who doesn't know it


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 646
Last seen: 7 years, 20 days
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: White Beard]
#18960036 - 10/10/13 03:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
White Beard said:
Quote:
stellarshnap said: Now as for death anxiety, I don't really understand it.
Creatures that fear death and avoid it are better at surviving and passing on their genetic code then creatures who don't. Anxiety is fear of something happening in the future. Humans, being able to think abstractly, can place themselves in time time, so we, unlike any other creature on earth, can look into the future, realize we're going to die, and feel anxious about it.
Yes, but being able to think abstractly and all, shouldn't we be able to think about it objectively, realize that really it's not that big of a deal, you're not gonna worry about being dead when you die. You came from nothing, and you're returning to it. Big deal.
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
|
Memories



Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 10,484
Loc: Suwannee River
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
#18960078 - 10/10/13 03:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
stellarshnap said:
Quote:
White Beard said:
Quote:
stellarshnap said: Now as for death anxiety, I don't really understand it.
Creatures that fear death and avoid it are better at surviving and passing on their genetic code then creatures who don't. Anxiety is fear of something happening in the future. Humans, being able to think abstractly, can place themselves in time time, so we, unlike any other creature on earth, can look into the future, realize we're going to die, and feel anxious about it.
Yes, but being able to think abstractly and all, shouldn't we be able to think about it objectively, realize that really it's not that big of a deal, you're not gonna worry about being dead when you die. You came from nothing, and you're returning to it. Big deal. 
It only becomes a big deal when there is no denying that death is very near.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
#18960081 - 10/10/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
stellarshnap said:
Quote:
White Beard said:
Quote:
stellarshnap said: Now as for death anxiety, I don't really understand it.
Creatures that fear death and avoid it are better at surviving and passing on their genetic code then creatures who don't. Anxiety is fear of something happening in the future. Humans, being able to think abstractly, can place themselves in time time, so we, unlike any other creature on earth, can look into the future, realize we're going to die, and feel anxious about it.
Yes, but being able to think abstractly and all, shouldn't we be able to think about it objectively, realize that really it's not that big of a deal, you're not gonna worry about being dead when you die. You came from nothing, and you're returning to it. Big deal. 
Sure if you were a computer but humans are emotional and so have emotional charges around ideas. We think subjectively and very rarely (maybe math) objectively.
It's easy to say "Big deal" when it's not staring you in the face. That's why many people believe they have no fear of death. They think about it at safe and secure times and so don't feel afraid at least consciously, but as they say "there are no atheists in foxholes".
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
stellarshnap
Poet who doesn't know it


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 646
Last seen: 7 years, 20 days
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Icelander]
#18960093 - 10/10/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Perhaps it's because I'm still young that I'm able to brush aside the idea of death so easily. But still when pondering it I feel nothing related to fear. In fact I think on a subconscious level I welcome my death. This world is full of pain, beauty, and more pain. Death honestly just seems like a wonderful escape.
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Icelander]
#18960095 - 10/10/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
But are there foxes in atheist holes?
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
#18960117 - 10/10/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
stellarshnap said: Perhaps it's because I'm still young that I'm able to brush aside the idea of death so easily. But still when pondering it I feel nothing related to fear. In fact I think on a subconscious level I welcome my death. This world is full of pain, beauty, and more pain. Death honestly just seems like a wonderful escape.
Watch what happens when you have your next "close call". If you truly welcomed death as you claim here you'd off yourself. Yet here you are talking about how much pain life is. Now maybe you can see an unconscious dynamic at work.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
stellarshnap
Poet who doesn't know it


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 646
Last seen: 7 years, 20 days
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Icelander]
#18960171 - 10/10/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I've had moments on high doses of drugs where I was 100% sure I was about to die, and it scared me at first, but really soon after that I accepted it, and it felt good to do so. Really the only reason I haven't offed myself at this point is because it would hurt the people close to me. Don't get me wrong I enjoy life, death just doesn't seem like a bad alternative.
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
Edited by stellarshnap (10/10/13 04:10 PM)
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
#18960189 - 10/10/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Right you were scared, that's death anxiety. It can happen again too with the right stimulus. Life is long, you'll likely get a chance to verify this.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
stellarshnap
Poet who doesn't know it


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 646
Last seen: 7 years, 20 days
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Icelander]
#18960193 - 10/10/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Point of that was that I got past it, and it didn't really bother me anymore.
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
#18960203 - 10/10/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yes and as I said it will likely happen again so you can get over it again. If you want to understand the mechanism behind this read Ernest Becker's Denial of Death.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#18960239 - 10/10/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: But are there foxes in atheist holes?
Are there foxes in atheist holes?
|
PsilocybinWarrior
Stranger
Registered: 06/03/13
Posts: 4
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Repertoire89]
#18960308 - 10/10/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
stellarshnap
Poet who doesn't know it


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 646
Last seen: 7 years, 20 days
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Icelander]
#18960316 - 10/10/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Will do. Thanks for the recommendation.
-------------------- Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know. "Or is it?" The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.
|
CosmicAdventurer
Dr Getafix?



Registered: 09/15/13
Posts: 127
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
#18960507 - 10/10/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
So I guess you guy haven't been to the great wall of knowledge yet, Pity. Thing evolve and manifest in different forms. Cloud storage is a wonderful thing, think about it.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: CosmicAdventurer]
#18960522 - 10/10/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Gee, thanks for posting.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: stellarshnap]
#18960578 - 10/10/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Most human beings over most of recorded history disagree with you. So do I. Sleep is sleep and death may result in an number of possibilities. Those possibilities have everything to do with the condition of the being who is transitioning into death. Annihilation is one possibility for certain individuals. In the highest mystical states, Eternity is experienced, non-linearity. In those states, there is no memory because thought is linear. It is a Pure Consciousness Event, it is Awareness of Awareness, and Awareness consisting of non-cognitive Identity, the "I AM" of Jesus in the Johannine Gospel, the Logos experiencing Itself as Self-Effulgent Eternal and Unbearable Compassion. Enlightenment or Salvation seems to consist in the illusion of our temporal identities falling away, and Awakening to the Realization that we've ALWAYS been the Eternal Logos. This is what awaits those who are duly prepared for death. The Buddhists call it the Clear Light. Christians call it the Kingdom of God or Heaven.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: ConfettiHead]
#18960606 - 10/10/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ConfettiHead said: a) You die, your brain functioning ceases and there is only non-perceivable darkness.
Non-perceivable darkness is a non-sequitur. 
I don't believe in an afterlife, as there is no evidence for one, however the fact remains that "nothingness" is not perceivable. The entire idea of non-perception is fundamentally paradoxical, but I'm not ready to solve the paradox with an unsupported leap of faith. Right now the best I can do is that I think it would be wrong to say there's "nothingness," and just as wrong to say that there's an afterlife. What the right answer is, I don't know.
Edited by NetDiver (10/10/13 05:56 PM)
|
LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: CosmicAdventurer]
#18960613 - 10/10/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
CosmicAdventurer said: So I guess you guy haven't been to the great wall of knowledge yet, Pity. Thing evolve and manifest in different forms. Cloud storage is a wonderful thing, think about it.
I prefer to make rain.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#18960688 - 10/10/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Most human beings over most of recorded history disagree with you. So do I. Sleep is sleep and death may result in an number of possibilities. Those possibilities have everything to do with the condition of the being who is transitioning into death. Annihilation is one possibility for certain individuals. In the highest mystical states, Eternity is experienced, non-linearity. In those states, there is no memory because thought is linear. It is a Pure Consciousness Event, it is Awareness of Awareness, and Awareness consisting of non-cognitive Identity, the "I AM" of Jesus in the Johannine Gospel, the Logos experiencing Itself as Self-Effulgent Eternal and Unbearable Compassion. Enlightenment or Salvation seems to consist in the illusion of our temporal identities falling away, and Awakening to the Realization that we've ALWAYS been the Eternal Logos. This is what awaits those who are duly prepared for death. The Buddhists call it the Clear Light. Christians call it the Kingdom of God or Heaven.
Or so it is said.
I plan on turning down the 40 virgins and heading straight for the XTC bar and grill.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
|
Re: When you die you cease to exist, and here's why. [Re: Icelander]
#18960913 - 10/10/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Most human beings over most of recorded history disagree with you. So do I. Sleep is sleep and death may result in an number of possibilities. Those possibilities have everything to do with the condition of the being who is transitioning into death. Annihilation is one possibility for certain individuals. In the highest mystical states, Eternity is experienced, non-linearity. In those states, there is no memory because thought is linear. It is a Pure Consciousness Event, it is Awareness of Awareness, and Awareness consisting of non-cognitive Identity, the "I AM" of Jesus in the Johannine Gospel, the Logos experiencing Itself as Self-Effulgent Eternal and Unbearable Compassion. Enlightenment or Salvation seems to consist in the illusion of our temporal identities falling away, and Awakening to the Realization that we've ALWAYS been the Eternal Logos. This is what awaits those who are duly prepared for death. The Buddhists call it the Clear Light. Christians call it the Kingdom of God or Heaven.
Or so it is said.
I plan on turning down the 40 virgins and heading straight for the XTC bar and grill.
Right. But I have felt compelled to make a certain amount of moderate to high risk investments, and so, investing my mind with this possibility has positive consequences for my attitude, mood, and Joie de vivre. If a transcendental dawn doesn't arise, so be it. But Delta sleep as equivalent to death just doesn't seem very imaginative a thing to happen. It's so anticlimactic. Birth of a baby is always being fawned over, 'How miraculous!, The Miracle of Life!...' Meh. I never had the desire to become a father. I had friends who thought about it a lot and followed through. My best friend found he really wasn't into it, and when he and his wife divorced, he became little more than a child-support contributor until his daughter turned 18. Now, 9 days younger than me, he's a grandfather three times over. But, what about the 'Miracle of Death?' Why, that's preposterous, blasphemous, totally disgusting! Why? Mahatma Gandhi's birth was laudable, but Hitler's was not. Were they both illustrations of the miraculousness of life when they were infants? I suppose so, but then Life developed one of those 'miracles' into a loathsome demon. There are good deaths and bad deaths. Dying while gazing at the sky from the roots of a big tree while reclining is a good death in my imaginings, death in Auschwitz's gas chamber was not. But I can't help but wonder about the metaphysics that comes before the physics of our birth and after the physics of our life.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
|
|