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OfflineMescalitoMagnality
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Registered: 09/22/13
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can you soak WBS for too long?
    #18955350 - 10/09/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hey guys was just wondering if my 3 day soaked WBS is good, when i opened the lid too my pot their was white sudsy looking bubbles all over the place, and it also doesnt smell good at all i know it smells fermented at times but my question is can you soak WBS for too long? or is the suds from not properly cleaning out my pot? which im pretty sure i did.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: MescalitoMagnality]
    #18955365 - 10/09/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Your WBS has started ferminting and likely started sprouting.

I use rye, and if I were in your shoes, I would start over.


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OfflineMescalitoMagnality
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18955435 - 10/09/13 05:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Your WBS has started ferminting and likely started sprouting.

I use rye, and if I were in your shoes, I would start over.



Alright yea ill just start over and do the normal 14 hour soak.. i just started soaking it and couldnt get around to PCing it lol dammit i gotta learn not too waste materials


Edited by MescalitoMagnality (10/09/13 05:14 PM)


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: MescalitoMagnality]
    #18955470 - 10/09/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Been there, done that.:thumbup:


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18955604 - 10/09/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

24 hours is about the most you want to soak. You could get away with 36 if you change the water often, like I do.


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InvisibleGretchenmeister
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #18956099 - 10/09/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I just steep/simmer to capacity first, then drain and rinse and let the grains rest/drain for 24 hrs to ensure the endospores are hatched out. Also allows the outside of the seeds to dry some before you jar and pc the grain. 

If you are soak and simmering: the goal of the soak has always been to  help encourage endospore hatching, so they can germinate and be killed in the pc, not necessarily just to hydrate the seeds.  The seeds will become hydrated in the steep/simmer, whether you soaked or not :smile:

The goal of steeping/simmering is not to cook the seeds, but to allow the grains to soak up maximum moisture without bursting/cooking the grains.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: Gretchenmeister]
    #18956159 - 10/09/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gretchenmeister said:
If you are soak and simmering: the goal of the soak has always been to  help encourage endospore hatching, so they can germinate and be killed in the pc, not necessarily just to hydrate the seeds.  The seeds will become hydrated in the steep/simmer, whether you soaked or not :smile:



The soak is what hydrates the grains, not the simmer.

I know this because I do not simmer my grains, I just soak them for 24 hours in hot tap water and that does the trick.

The purpose of simmering them is just to get them hot enough to steam dry in a timely fashion, not to hydrate them.



Edited by PussyFart (10/09/13 07:52 PM)


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InvisibleGretchenmeister
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18956951 - 10/09/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

Gretchenmeister said:
If you are soak and simmering: the goal of the soak has always been to  help encourage endospore hatching, so they can germinate and be killed in the pc, not necessarily just to hydrate the seeds.  The seeds will become hydrated in the steep/simmer, whether you soaked or not :smile:



The soak is what hydrates the grains, not the simmer.

I know this because I do not simmer my grains, I just soak them for 24 hours in hot tap water and that does the trick.

The purpose of simmering them is just to get them hot enough to steam dry in a timely fashion, not to hydrate them.






You are not wrong, you dont even have to simmer if your grains are hydrated well enough after the soak.

The new modern purpose of simmering them is to steam dry them. (oh hey guys check this out ..my seeds dry better like this)

The original purpose and still primary purpose of soaking is however to allow endospores to hatch.  There has been a huge gap of basic information in some regards on the boards, does not make the truth of the matter any different, because people don't know :smile:


While resistant to extreme heat and radiation, endospores can be destroyed by burning or by autoclaving. Endospores are able to survive boiling at 100°C for hours, although the longer the number of hours the fewer that will survive. An indirect way to destroy them is to place them in an environment that reactivates them to their vegetative state (hydration). They will germinate within a day (24hr soak) or two with the right environmental conditions, and then the vegetative cells can be straightforwardly destroyed (in the pc). This indirect method is called Tyndallization. It was the usual method for a while in the late 19th century before the advent of inexpensive autoclaves. Prolonged exposure to ionising radiation, such as x-rays and gamma rays, will also kill most endospores.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18957083 - 10/09/13 10:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

Gretchenmeister said:
If you are soak and simmering: the goal of the soak has always been to  help encourage endospore hatching, so they can germinate and be killed in the pc, not necessarily just to hydrate the seeds.  The seeds will become hydrated in the steep/simmer, whether you soaked or not :smile:



The soak is what hydrates the grains, not the simmer.

I know this because I do not simmer my grains, I just soak them for 24 hours in hot tap water and that does the trick.

The purpose of simmering them is just to get them hot enough to steam dry in a timely fashion, not to hydrate them.






Could you explain why ever after soaking when you simmer the grains expand?


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: budmanman]
    #18957640 - 10/10/13 01:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i had grains ferment on me when i soaked them in hot water during the summer in just 12 hours.

use cold tap water and dont let them soak for more than 24 hours.

i usually let soak 10-14 hrs in cold tap then bring to full boil and steam dry in collander


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: twistedty]
    #18957646 - 10/10/13 01:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

twistedty said:
i had grains ferment on me when i soaked them in hot water during the summer in just 12 hours.



I seriously doubt this....


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18957650 - 10/10/13 01:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

twistedty said:
i had grains ferment on me when i soaked them in hot water during the summer in just 12 hours.



I seriously doubt this....




i swear, smelled like straight vomit in just half a day. i still used them and they still worked but they smelled terrible, i wouldnt lie to you guys.

so after that i use just reg temp cool/tepid tap water

maybe ferment was bad choice of words but it was a funk of a smell


Edited by twistedty (10/10/13 01:27 AM)


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: twistedty]
    #18957655 - 10/10/13 01:31 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

my wbs rolls around like bbs and colonize like a mofo.  overboiling grains is so easy.

its just like cookin food, alot of food eggs meat etc will continue to cook for minutes on end even after you remove them from the heat.

a little culinary 101 for yall


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: twistedty]
    #18957660 - 10/10/13 01:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

oh yes and btw my tap water come out to 140+F on max so i think that is why my wbs fermented so fast that plus the 80+ degrees ambient.

im telling you it smelled like straight mash for shine in just 12 hours.


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: twistedty]
    #18957663 - 10/10/13 01:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

cmon hacker dont do me like that!


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: twistedty]
    #18957690 - 10/10/13 01:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Damn bro.....it's iight.....I just havent checked my threads is all....I was just sayin.

Yea maybe that wasn't the right word....lol.


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OfflineSillyputty67

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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? *DELETED* [Re: PussyFart]
    #18958233 - 10/10/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Sillyputty67

Reason for deletion: 1



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1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: Sillyputty67]
    #18958259 - 10/10/13 08:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Endospores are very real and a problem if not properly dealt with.

Simmering dry grains will hydrate them, as will soaking.  However, if you boil or simmer dry grains, they expand too fast and many will burst.  Burst grains spill starch and are harder for the mycelium to colonize.  This can and does cause problems later.

Soaking grains in hot water hydrates them without bursting.  If one follows this procedure, the boil is to get them hot enough to steam dry before loading into jars. Other growers use different procedures, but all of them involve getting the grains to the correct moisture content and then sterilizing.

Endospores do not need to germinate to be killed.  Stinky, fermented grains will have far more endospores than the original dry grain simply because endospore forming bacteria will begin to form new endospores within hours of germination.  Simply hydrate the grains before pressure cooking for at least 4 hours.  When the grains are hydrated, the hard shell of the endospore is also hydrated, thus it will easily be nuked in the pressure cooker whether it has germinated or not.
RR


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InvisibleSteyner
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #18958299 - 10/10/13 08:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

sorry RR just to be clear, a 4 hour soak is good enough?

I have been following what seems to be the main consensus on this site, soaking for 24 hours, simmer for 10 minutes and steam dry.

can I get away with a 4 hour soak no problem?


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: Steyner]
    #18958341 - 10/10/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've found that soaking rye berries for 24 hrs in the summer was too long.
I dont know if fermentation is what happened, but I got some bubbly white foamy substance floating on top of the soak water.
The berries didn't seem to hydrate much more from the 8hr mark to the 24 hr mark,
so I've changed my soak time to under 16hrs.
Haven't grown enough to tell a difference, except I no longer have that
smelly icky white stuff in my water.

4 hrs would probably also suffice. Even more convinced now that RR says so (even though this is about wbs)


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