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MorphinTime
Tulpa



Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 7,151
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
#18988311 - 10/16/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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millzy said: you seem to be looking at religion and science as one being superior to the other.
That is the way I tend to look.
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religion and science are both products of human curiosity and reasoning. i would tend to think that the impetus for any type of question would be curiosity and the usefulness of any question lies in the context of the question itself.
Good point, but I don't think curiosity is necessarily the impetus for all types of questions. Sometimes I ask questions just to piss people off without being interested in an answer or furthering my understanding of the world.
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asking religious questions in a scientific context is as useless as asking scientific questions in a religious context. at least now. again, different games with different sets of rules and goals.
I think it's often useless to ask scientific questions in a religious context, but I disagree that asking religious questions in a scientific context would be just as futile, though not in every case.
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g00ru said: believe in god or else you are emotionally repressed. the end.
I'm not sure actual belief in god is a conscious decision that can be made on a whim.
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starfire_xes said: Anyone want to read a nice sci-fi that presents a really different perspective on religion/why we are here should read Arthur C. Clarke's 'Childhood's End'
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millzy said: my favorite arthur c. clarke short story is "the nine billion names of god". the ending will give you chills.
I just started getting into some Clarke. I read the Time Odyssey series that he authored with Stephen Baxter and enjoyed it, but I'm not sure what to read next. I was thinking about 2001 and its sequels but I've seen the Kubrick movie a million times and I'm not sure if I want to "leave it at that" or not.
The two works you guys listed are on my reading list but would you recommend I just start with his earliest works first or do you think it matters?
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millzy said: while being ignorant of sports is generally of no consequence, as our global community becomes smaller, the importance of understanding religious differences is crucial regardless of what you believe.
I agree and think the same could be said for understanding cultural differences in general. However, there is a lot out there to understand.
Don't leave millzy! I know you're frustrated with school and work, and this thread , but your posts are helping this thread stay interesting.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: Uzziel]
#18988393 - 10/16/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Uzziel said: So you're saying there is no right and wrong? Sounds like chaos to me. If that isn't chaos, I don't know what is. What you say is contradictory, if consciousness is worthless in terms of morality, why do people seek it?
If there are no right and wrongs, why do people feel that there are right and wrongs?
Is the right answer to "Is unnecessary pain good?" Yes or No? Are such things really subjective to each person? If one answers No, you would fall under the limitation of "Problem of Evil" If you answer yes, you're a psycho along with your "god"... 
I clearly said that good/evil, or right/wrong, are subjective terms--nowhere did I imply that they do not exist. I have a clear notion of what is good and what is evil, but I'm also aware that my perspective may not necessarily be shared by others.
I do not see killing and eating other animals as an evil, but I also don't believe that an animal I eat shares that perspective. If it had a choice, it would probably choose to not be eaten. Relative to the animal being eaten, killing and eating animals is an evil. The Israeli soldier is the evil one, from the perspective of the Palestinian citizen. From the perspective of the Israeli soldier, they are a force of good. A starving dog steals me lunch, sucks for me. Good for the starving dog.
Are you starting to understand how morality is relative?
And yes, sometimes many folks will have the same interpretation of good/evil. Your concept of unnecessary pain, for example, I'm sure the vast majority of humans would agree is bad. I don't know why you are bringing up the problem of evil again though, even if something like unnecessary pain exists in the universe, and I identify it as an existing evil, the concept of god as I understand it remains uncontradicted.
Beyond that, how are we to define the necessary/unnecessary schism. This would imply a general plan of achievement intended by the deity in question--with certain actions either necessary or unnecessary to reach the desired outcome. If you believe in the god with a plan (I don't), then one can easily explain 'unnecessary' pain away by making the claim that--in the grand scheme of god's plan--the pain is necessary, for whatever reason.
As for me, I don't believe the universe has a reason for its existence beyond fulfilling the potential for it to exist. There is no such thing as 'necessary' or 'unnecessary'--merely that which is, and that which isn't. Pain exists, and my personal morality says it sucks, but there is nothing to blame--it's just how things are--if I put my focus on anything, it is on reducing pain/suffering in what little ways I can.
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#18988574 - 10/16/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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with clarke morphin, i haven't had a lot of exposure to him. a friend of mine read 2001 and highly recommends it. she has a masters in english studies and really good taste, so i trust her opinion even though i've just seen the film.
my recommendation for sci-fi is iain m. banks' culture cycle.
consider phlebus the player of games matter surface detail
none are related plot wise, but i would suggest reading those in that order. shit's pretty mind blowing. banks does an excellent job of envisioning what a truly utopian posthuman society would be like. and the battles are fucking awesome.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
Edited by millzy (10/16/13 10:00 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
#18988590 - 10/16/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you are reading Clarke, you must read Childhood's End*. One of his earlier works, but also touches on religion quite a bit.
Then, you need to read The Songs of Distant Earth - the only book I know of that has a soundtrack:
* it is such classic sci-if that a lot of ideas that seem commonplace in modern sci-if came from this book. Alien crafts over all the big cities, for example from Signs, or V from the 80s or Independence Day.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (10/16/13 10:12 PM)
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: koods]
#18988696 - 10/16/13 10:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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the last sci fi i read was james s.a. corey's expanse series. corey is a pseudonym for two writers who came up through george r.r. martin's little college of authors. conceptually it's nothing mind blowing, but it's a great story with great characters. it is a little different twist on space opera in that it takes place during a period before we've expanded beyond the solar system. somewhat of a wild west feel to it but there's a lot of nods to a lot of different genres. not terribly heady, but a read that you most likely won't be able to put down once you pick it up.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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MorphinTime
Tulpa



Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 7,151
Loc: Angel Grove
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: koods]
#18988747 - 10/16/13 10:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks guys, I appreciate the recommendations 
Childhood's End is probably next, and that's twice now someone has suggested Iain M. Banks to me so he's going on the list next to Heinlein.
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: MorphinTime]
#18988896 - 10/16/13 10:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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i wish i was a culture citizen.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
#18988926 - 10/16/13 11:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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millzy said: i wish i was a culture citizen. 
What's that? Is that like being a permanent member of Culture Club?
Wait a second, what's happened to this thread? Here:
Religion is the opiate of the masses. I prefer oxycodone.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (10/16/13 11:07 PM)
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: koods]
#18988941 - 10/16/13 11:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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the culture cycle is a utopian, posthuman space opera series written by the late iain m. banks. this is an essay written by banks about the world and philosophy of the culture. no spoilers. william gibson calls the culture cycle some of the most imaginative science fiction he's ever read.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
Edited by millzy (10/16/13 11:08 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: millzy]
#18989336 - 10/17/13 01:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ohhhh. I thought it was a real thing. Like Bigfoot.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (10/17/13 01:27 AM)
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: 10,000 if you can provide proof of god or supernatural? [Re: koods]
#18989351 - 10/17/13 01:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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oh yer
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