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OfflineCitizenErased
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Contams, contams and more contams.
    #18956922 - 10/09/13 10:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I really don't know what the deal is here. This is my third grow, the first of which being the only one to produce anything at all before contaminating, which was just over 1/2 oz dried. First I went with buckets, then tried a monotub, which went to shit fast. So I switched back to buckets for round three.

Rye berries, soaked for 24 hours, boiled for ten minutes, drained, shaken, dried (using the toilet paper test). Loaded into jars with polyfil in the center of the lids and foil over the tops. Pressure cooked at 15 psi for 90 minutes. Cooled overnight.

Still air box, cleaned thoroughly with soap and water, sprayed with lysol and wiped down with 90% iso for good measure("why not?", I thought). Then lathered lightly with soapy water again. Put everything inside, including master grain jar. Waited 15 minutes. Performed g2g slowly and carefully. 

Coir/verm/gypsum brought to field capacity, then pasteurized in jars, (keeping proper temps. 140-160 for an hour).

Smelled and examined all of my colonized rye. Found no problems. Dunked grains individually in jars, then mixed 2 jars of sub/1 jar of spawn individually among 7 buckets. Buckets have 1 inch holes on the bottoms just above the sub at the 4" mark on either side, and four holes of the same size around the top. Duct taped for colonization. Polyfil for fruiting. Stuffed as tightly as possible in the bottom holes, and as loosely as possible in the top holes. Showercaps on top, pointed down for colonization, and pulled up afterward. Electric fan on in room nearby but not directly on them. Temps at an average of 70-75 F. 

Waited 8 days to fruit for 4 of them, and 11 for three that didn't appear to be quite ready. Three days after putting the final three into fruiting, all but two buckets have trich, and I'm going to go ahead and assume the others most likely will by tomorrow.

What the shit am I doing so disastrously wrong?


Edited by CitizenErased (10/09/13 10:25 PM)


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18956949 - 10/09/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Could be your sterile procedure is not a good as you think, bad pasteurization (what kind of sub are you using), sub could be too wet, or else your inoculate is dirty.

Proper pasteurization and good field capacity for your substrate and agar for your inoculate will be your ticket :super:


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #18957681 - 10/10/13 01:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

bucket tek is like a lottery ticket my first five tubs i did with it did GREAT!

after that it was hit or miss. alot of misses than hits.

proper past in jars is the way to go.


FUCK THE BUCKET TEK. i find it sterilizes more than pastuerizes


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: twistedty]
    #18958352 - 10/10/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think he is talking about the Damion5050 bucket tek but rather using a bucket as a fruiting chamber/monotub setup. He said he pasteurized his substrate in jars in the OP but some people can't read I guess.

Quote:

Coir/verm/gypsum brought to field capacity, then pasteurized in jars, (keeping proper temps. 140-160 for an hour).




My guess would be your sterile procedure with G2G transfers. Either that or the polyfil lids you have. Polyfill in a lid should be like a 1/4-3/8" hole and stuffed super tightly.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (10/10/13 08:51 AM)


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #18958758 - 10/10/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Could be the poly-fil. Could be the G2G. Could be the sterile process. Poly-fil or G2G are the more likely candidates IMO. I personally would never trust poly-fil for my grain jars.

I'm not exactly sure about your FC set up. In monotubs, we put 4 holes at substrate level and 2 holes at the top. It sounds like you have this reversed. Could be causing FAE issues that lead to contams. FAE is contams worst enemy.

And, just because it's green, doesn't mean it's trich.


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18958885 - 10/10/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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OfflineCitizenErased
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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #18959201 - 10/10/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hm, so could I just modify my existing buckets rather than obtaining new ones? like if I were to drill two more holes at the bottom and simply tape the two extra at the top? Don't see why not, but just asking.


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18959348 - 10/10/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Probably but I don't fruit in buckets. Most people round these part prefer monotubs :shrug:


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #18959430 - 10/10/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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Offlinejimbojones
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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18959873 - 10/10/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I see three possible reasons for contamination here.

1. The jars you used for the gtg could have been contaminated.
  What was your initial inoculation procedure for the master grain jar?

2. If your cultures were clean, contams could have been introduced during the gtg transfers.  What exactly was your gtg procedure?

3. The polyfill filters could be letting contams in.


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: jimbojones]
    #18959885 - 10/10/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jimbojones said:
I see three possible reasons for contamination here.

1. The jars you used for the gtg could have been contaminated.
  What was your initial inoculation procedure for the master grain jar?

2. If your cultures were clean, contams could have been introduced during the gtg transfers.  What exactly was your gtg procedure?

3. The polyfill filters could be letting contams in.




Thanks for the recap of what everyone already said. I think the OP will have an easier time reading this since you broke it down with numerals.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (10/10/13 03:05 PM)


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #18959902 - 10/10/13 03:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:rofl2:


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Offlinejimbojones
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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #18960276 - 10/10/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:

Thanks for the recap of what everyone already said. I think the OP will have an easier time reading this since you broke it down with numerals.




Yes, you're right I point out the same issues that everybody else did, but I'm the only one that actually asked questions about the OP's sterile technique. 

Sure you can tell somebody their sterile technique is to blame all day, but you gotta realize that they may have trouble understanding what correct sterile technique is.  This is why the specific steps of the OP's inoculation procedure of both the master and gtg's need to be looked at. Then we can all make suggestions on how exactly to rectify this contamination issue.


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: jimbojones]
    #18960301 - 10/10/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

You are a good customer service representative. I wished I got someone like you when I call in about my cable not working. Does the shroomery pay by the hour or are you salaried? I'm just a volunteer.


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #18960402 - 10/10/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Lol it'd be awesome if the Shroomery paid some of their mods. OP, you sure it's trich? Pix worth a thousand...


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OfflineCitizenErased
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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: OneiricOutsider]
    #18960840 - 10/10/13 06:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'll be able to take some pics within the hour. My master jar was inoculated g2g as well. I've been doing things this way exclusively since I had my first batch of spawn from MS. That is until the other day, when I used the rest of my left over spores (refrigerated) to inoculate 56 more jars. So...hopefully that works out.

The holes in my jars are around 1/4 inch in diameter. The polyfil is tightly fitted, and trimmed. My g2g is done inside of a still air box. I shower before hand, brush my teeth, put on clean clothes (that I spray with lysol for the hell of it). Then I put on an unused disposable showercap, and long sleeves with near-elbow length rubber gloves and a surgical mask (not a dust mask). I break up the master jar and put it inside of the clean box with the jars to be inoculated.

Then I wait 10 or 15 minutes for the air to settle and continue. I transfer the grains from the master by tilting and turning it so that they fall into the receiving jars, individually, and then close them up,as well as the master. I move on to the next jar and repeat. I do this as quickly, but with as little movement as I can manage to.


Edited by CitizenErased (10/10/13 06:43 PM)


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OfflineCitizenErased
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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18960868 - 10/10/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Again, all of the spawn that I used for this grow looked and smelled fine. Plus, I mixed them individually into the buckets, thinking well if one jar is bad for some reason it won't fuck everything up. That's a big part of the reason I chose this route rather than to do a monotub, which I did end up doing, but that didn't go well at all. Shit turned black.


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OfflineCitizenErased
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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: OneiricOutsider]
    #18960998 - 10/10/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)













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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18961006 - 10/10/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:poopbanana:


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: PussyFart]
    #18961096 - 10/10/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #18961243 - 10/10/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ahh shit. Well follow the others' suggestions, although it seems like you're taking nearly every precaution. Perhaps try G2G/colonization in a different room with less air flow? Best of luck to you on your other jars, I think you'll get it this time :thumbup:


Edited by OneiricOutsider (10/10/13 08:08 PM)


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OfflineCitizenErased
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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: OneiricOutsider]
    #18961251 - 10/10/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Do you think that it could in fact be the way that I've set up the holes in these buckets? Having two on the bottom, and four on top, rather than the other way around? Could it make that drastic of a difference?


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18961273 - 10/10/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Personally I doubt it. Its not going to give very good conditions for fruiting and might make it easier for trich to move in later on down the road but, IME trich before the first flush is either bad spawn or bad pasteurization. Because your sub is just coir verm and gypsum, I'm tempted to blame the spawn.


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OfflineCitizenErased
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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18961495 - 10/10/13 09:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I don't get it though. If they look and smell fine, how can I ever know whether they're good or not?


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OfflineCitizenErased
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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18961506 - 10/10/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

And which wouldn't give very good conditions for fruiting? 4/bottom,two/top or vice versa?


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18961670 - 10/10/13 09:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CitizenErased said:
I don't get it though. If they look and smell fine, how can I ever know whether they're good or not?




IME molds in spawn can be buried in the jar's centre and if the contam is small you might not see or smell it. Best thing to do is ensure clean inoculate (agar) and good filters. Also check your sterilization times. I live at a fairly high elevation and when I was using a piece of shit PC that probably never got above 13psi I found that I needed to PC for 2-2.5 hours to be sure of clean grains.

Quote:

CitizenErased said:
And which wouldn't give very good conditions for fruiting? 4/bottom,two/top or vice versa?




Like I said a bucket is not something I have any experience fruiting in but in monotubs you want two loosely stuffed holes on the top and 4 tightly stuffed holes on bottom. No matter what, I think that you would want more holes on the bottom than the top. The loose poly will allow lots of FAE in, while the tightly stuffed holes provide the exhaust. Obviously less gas will exit through the tight holes which is why you would want more of those on the bottom :shrug:


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #18961707 - 10/10/13 10:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I think your issue is dirty spawn. To the untrained eye, molds and even bacterias may look just like mycelium.

Get some new genetics, some SFDs, and be sure your jars aren't open for more than 3 seconds while G2G'ing.

When spawning to tub or w/e, use a liner, and try the "layering" method rather than using your hands to mix.

Also, hold your breath during G2G transfers and while spawning myc to a tub.

I've grown a few different types of mushrooms, and the only times I had contamination, I was able to trace it back to earlier stages weeks before bad signs started showing up. It was usually bad inoculant/spawn.

Remember, growing mushrooms is just a race against time- you're just trying to get to that big flush before the mean green or w/e settles in.

Sterilize longer, become more sterile in your practices, and try again!

Good luck. Cheers.


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: Mykes logos]
    #18961750 - 10/10/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mykes logos said:
Get some new genetics, some SFDs, and be sure your jars aren't open for more than 3 seconds while G2G'ing.




3 seconds is pretty short, I'd say he has five for sure :thumbup: I have noticed that its better to be slow and deliberate (causing little air disturbance in the SAB) than quick and jerky :shrug:

Quote:

Mykes logos said:
When spawning to tub or w/e, use a liner, and try the "layering" method rather than using your hands to mix.




I would never "layer" as it has been proven to take longer to colonize :shrug: I have also used my hands to mix. I don't even wear gloves *gasp* That's why we properly pasteurize in the first place :awesomenod:

Quote:

Mykes logos said:
Also, hold your breath during G2G transfers and while spawning myc to a tub.





So he can pass out with his arms in an SAB? :confused2: Just get a surgical mask. You could brush your teeth and use mouthwash as well if you were really paranoid. As for spawning you can pick your nose over a sub if its properly pasteurized :lol:


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OfflineCitizenErased
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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18962155 - 10/10/13 11:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I have a big box of surgical masks, that I dispose of after each use. And yeah, I shower, brush my teeth, etc.


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18962176 - 10/11/13 12:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CitizenErased said:
And yeah, I shower, brush my teeth, etc.



Funny, I never do any of that before I do my G2G transfers, and they all turn out successful.

I just clean the immediate area, the SAB, and whatever goes inside.

Then I wear tyvek sleeves and surgical gloves, and there are sleeves attached to my SAB that my sleeved arms fit thru.

Works freakin awesome for me, might not for some....only advocated for the wickedly brave and confident.


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Re: Contams, contams and more contams. [Re: CitizenErased]
    #18962646 - 10/11/13 05:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Experiment with being more gentle when you mix in your spawn.

In my experience, I have a hard time accepting this super ninja contamination theory. It could be true, but I just don't completely buy in to it. I could be convinced otherwise, but it just don't sit right with me.


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