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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18955308 - 10/09/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
There are still people that believe that the world is flat and that 9/11 was an "inside job."  For any theory, however inane, you can find people stupid enough to believe it.

There is, however, no debate in the scientific community.  There is one in congress (largely along party lines) and in the media...but not in the scientific community.



There is lots of debate in the science community
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/13/validity-of-marcott-et-al-part-ii/

But you wouldn't know that because of the poodle press who also make bank scaring people.  Let me remind you that in the seventies there was a consensus that we were cooling.

Here's a nifty little feature about science.  You have to prove something to a probability that it isn't chance by about 20 to 1 through experimentation.  Computer models are NOT science.  They made predictions and they were wrong over 15 years during which time emissions  of CO2 went up.




That article is from March 2013.

The study I'm talking about is 3 weeks old.

it has proven with 95% accuracy that global warming is due to human behavior

Now you can choose to believe science and get up to date with recent discoveries

OR

You can look like an idiot denying scientific facts.

Your choice


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Edited by Patlal (10/09/13 04:55 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Fire is Born]
    #18955310 - 10/09/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Fire is Born said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html



The climate changes.  Good thing, too.  Until 10,000 years ago the planet had been in an ice that had blanketed the Northern hemisphere for 100,000 years.  Alarmists make huge bank scaring the public.  In the seventies it was global cooling.  Some scientists think the results of computer modeling are facts.  They are not.  GIGO.  They made predictions about 15 years ago that have not panned out.  There has been no global warming since their predictions of disaster.  What would a real scientist do?  Scrap his model.  What are these politicians masquerading as scientists doing?  Doubling down and looking for excuses. 

I want to make one fact perfectly clear.  Cheap external sources of energy (i.e. not due to direct human physical labor) is what has allowed us to attain a level of comfort not seen for any species ever.  It started with draft animals and water powered mills and has moved on to fossil fuels and a few other lesser sources.  The other sources cannot replace fossil fuels.  Not hydro, not solar, not nuclear, not wind, not geothermal.  They all have huge limitations that just do not apply to burning of fossil fuels.  There is no replacement.  It would be a catastrophe of biblical proportions if we eliminate fossil fuels to the extent these nutcases insist on.

Eventually fossil fuels are going to run out, although it is a lot further down the road than the alarmists scream about.  The only hope for civilization when that happens is to make our own suns.  Fusion.  That is it.  While we funnel billions of dollars into bullshit that will never amount to cock we are neglecting fission research.  All because of Greenpeace retards that have infested the policy making realms of government.


The daily mail? :wowjustwow:



Do you dispute their facts?  Because I've seen this reported in lots of places.  That just came up first in the Google search.  Another example of a failed prediction.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18955323 - 10/09/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

haha, don't even bother Zappa. what is going on here, is beyond capacity for critical human thought.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18955325 - 10/09/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A computer programmed by the hand of man is going to reflect his biases.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18955333 - 10/09/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

There really isn't, zap.  I know you want to believe there is, but there isn't.

Global warming denial is on par with creationism.  There is simply no debate or controversy to discuss.  A few fringe scientists still hold on to theories about natural cycles, etc, but those theories are widely rejected by mainstream science. 

You're entitled to hitch your wagon to the star of your choosing, of course.  In this case, however, you're just clinging to an obsolete theory that isn't even credible enough to be argued anymore among scientists.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
    #18955344 - 10/09/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
A computer programmed by the hand of man is going to reflect his biases.




lol, and people one: will denounce this concept and two: will continue to argue their biases and continue to prop up news articles to dissuade people's arguments, making room for more pointless arguing.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18955352 - 10/09/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
There really isn't, zap.  I know you want to believe there is, but there isn't.

Global warming denial is on par with creationism.  There is simply no debate or controversy to discuss.  A few fringe scientists still hold on to theories about natural cycles, etc, but those theories are widely rejected by mainstream science. 

You're entitled to hitch your wagon to the star of your choosing, of course.  In this case, however, you're just clinging to an obsolete theory that isn't even credible enough to be argued anymore among scientists.



scientists = all prevailing human knowledge inspector

yeah, they can't be fallible in their believes or anything? :rolleyes: i am pretty sure all Zappa is arguing is that there is no proof, so... are we done now? or is this gonna... nope, it's gonna just... well... ok.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18955380 - 10/09/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Of course they can be fallible.  My argument is pretty simple:

1. Zappa is not an expert.
2. I am not an expert.
3. No one on this site is an expert.
4. Nearly every expert agrees that global warming is caused by human factors.

Any opinion I render or Zappa renders on the topic is close enough to worthless that we might as well consider them worthless.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
    #18955393 - 10/09/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
There are still people that believe that the world is flat and that 9/11 was an "inside job."  For any theory, however inane, you can find people stupid enough to believe it.

There is, however, no debate in the scientific community.  There is one in congress (largely along party lines) and in the media...but not in the scientific community.



There is lots of debate in the science community
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/13/validity-of-marcott-et-al-part-ii/

But you wouldn't know that because of the poodle press who also make bank scaring people.  Let me remind you that in the seventies there was a consensus that we were cooling.

Here's a nifty little feature about science.  You have to prove something to a probability that it isn't chance by about 20 to 1 through experimentation.  Computer models are NOT science.  They made predictions and they were wrong over 15 years during which time emissions  of CO2 went up.




That article is from March 2013.

The study I'm talking about is 3 weeks old.

it has proven with 98% accuracy that global warming is due to human behavior

Now you can choose to believe science and get up to date with recent discoveries

OR

You can look like an idiot denying scientific facts.

Your choice



What study?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html

Quote:

Professor Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon.

And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.





http://chipstero7.blogspot.com/2012/03/unprecedented-warming-oh-really.html

Quote:

HADCRUT data shows no “statistically-significant warming”
Here’s something interesting that you won’t hear from the IPCC. The HADCRUT3 data (the IPCC’s own data no less) shows that the temperature increased at almost exactly the same rate between 1910-1940 as it did between 1980-2000. According to the CAGW-hypothesis, it should have accelerated as our CO2-emissions accelerated, however it did not. In a 2010 BBC-interview Phil Jones (a leading CAGW-proponent) was asked: “Do you agree that according to the global temperature record used by the IPCC, the rates of global warming from 1860-1880, 1910-1940 and 1975-1998 were identical?” Phil Jones scarcely acknowledges the significance of his own words: “So, in answer to the question, the warming rates for all 4 periods are similar and not statistically significantly different from each other”. In other words, there is no anthropogenic signature in the homogenised global surface temperature record and the warming is within long-term natural variation. Furthermore, the HADCRUT4 data shows no statistically significant warming for 15 years, thereby demonstrating a divergence between atmospheric CO2 and temperature. See here. Quote from article: “The graph shows the global annual average temperature since 1997. No statistically significant trend can be discerned from the data. The only statistically acceptable conclusion to be drawn from the HADCRUT4 data is that between 1997-2011 it has remained constant, with a global surface temperature of 14.44 +/- 0.16C”. Remarkably, this is something even Phil Jones agrees with. In the BBC-interview Jones was asked: “Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically significant global warming”. His reply? “Yes, but only just”. Question: What do the IPCC consider to be the ‘confounding variables’ and why was this not predicted by Hansen’s $100,000,000 computer models?




Here's what I demand of the glubullshitists.  Show me the scientific proof.  I give no shits about your models or your opinions.  Where is the proof needed to enact huge changes in energy use that have allowed us to achieve our current unprecedented state of human comfort?


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18955397 - 10/09/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

(Pardon my digression.)

Quote:

Global warming denial is on par with creationism.




Many 'secular' sciences, including that of evolutionism, were first founded by pagan mystery schools.

The forefront of cosmic humanism now recognizes intelligent design, but does not give credit to the Christian God.

Extra dimensional entities are no longer assumed to be spiritual, are predicted to take part in this very discussion, eventually to reshape human society.

Your strongest adherents do, in fact, make assumptions, no less colorful than those of evangelists.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18955399 - 10/09/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i'd agree with that sentiment, too.

but still, computer models are less then accurate for what be accepted as scientific fact.  it's compelling, sure, but it isn't like a model prediction can be shown to be true until A: the time and prevalence in the models calculations are proven effective, as supporting a trend, and B: the model shows an ACTUAL prediction.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18955408 - 10/09/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Of course they can be fallible.  My argument is pretty simple:

1. Zappa is not an expert.
2. I am not an expert.
3. No one on this site is an expert.
4. Nearly every expert agrees that global warming is caused by human factors.

Any opinion I render or Zappa renders on the topic is close enough to worthless that we might as well consider them worthless.




I am not just rendering my opinion, I am providing links to scientists who dispute it.  You are ignorant of the debate because you only read the popular press.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18955417 - 10/09/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't read any press.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #18955418 - 10/09/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i'd agree with that sentiment, too.

but still, computer models are less then accurate for what be accepted as scientific fact.  it's compelling, sure, but it isn't like a model prediction can be shown to be true until A: the time and prevalence in the models calculations are proven effective, as supporting a trend, and B: the model shows an ACTUAL prediction.




This has been the failure.  There are a lot of people making a lot of money from scaring the dipshit browsers of information.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18955445 - 10/09/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Zappa, this is the latest report on Global warming.  Feel free to debunk it:

http://www.climatechange2013.org/images/uploads/WGIAR5_WGI-12Doc2b_FinalDraft_All.pdf

It's about 2000 pages, but here's a summary:

http://www.climatechange2013.org/images/uploads/WGIAR5-SPM_Approved27Sep2013.pdf


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Offlinedark3st
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18955449 - 10/09/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Whose to say those algorithms are accurate.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: dark3st]
    #18955453 - 10/09/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

There are many thousands of eyes connected to highly educated brains that have looked at it.  Do you have any reason to believe it's wrong other than the fact that you wish it were?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18955476 - 10/09/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

is there any reason for anything in this thread at all, since all anyone seems to be doing is arguing for the sake of arguing and not having any verification as to whether or not a computer models predictions will prove to be accurate?


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
    #18955487 - 10/09/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Bias is implied when the study is funded by wealth, expropriated at gunpoint, and dissenting opinion is politically incorrect.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
    #18955493 - 10/09/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)



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