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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: Gretchenmeister]
    #18958572 - 10/10/13 10:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gretchenmeister said:
I just steep/simmer to capacity first, then drain and rinse and let the grains rest/drain for 24 hrs to ensure the endospores are hatched out. Also allows the outside of the seeds to dry some before you jar and pc the grain. 

If you are soak and simmering: the goal of the soak has always been to  help encourage endospore hatching, so they can germinate and be killed in the pc, not necessarily just to hydrate the seeds.  The seeds will become hydrated in the steep/simmer, whether you soaked or not :smile:

The goal of steeping/simmering is not to cook the seeds, but to allow the grains to soak up maximum moisture without bursting/cooking the grains.





Nice to see you on the forums Gretch. (I myself have been absent for a while)

I use Foo's No Soak WBS tek  and it always works.

I guess there is some discussion about whether or not this is ideal for maximum hydration

The idea behind soaking your grains is to hydrate and germinate the endospores in the grain to be killed during the PC.

Honestly I have never needed to do this in the past 7 years I have been cultivating. I just boil water, take it off the heat, add grain, strain it 20-30 min later. Let it dry, jar it, PC, inoculate

Foo's method is especially popular for those who don't like bursting grains or who have a finicky stovetop.

I like it because I can skip the soak completely, but better yet I dont need to simmer or watch my grains. Just boil water to a nice hot rolling boil, remove it from the heat, add your grain, put the top on, and wait

Never burst another kernel again:awehigh:


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: spacechildo]
    #18958584 - 10/10/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It seems to me, that endospores forming in water would also be hydrated and thus nuked in the PC, just like the endospores that were on the dry grain. :shrug:


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #18958646 - 10/10/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Endospores do not need to germinate to be killed.  Stinky, fermented grains will have far more endospores than the original dry grain simply because endospore forming bacteria will begin to form new endospores within hours of germination.




I came in to say this. I don't agree that soaking does all of the hydrating that you need. I soak my WBS for ~24 hours per batch, and I change the water often to keep it hot (comes out of my tap at about 150F) and this still doesn't completely hydrate it. A few minutes of simmering (until the milo starts to split and the wheat goes translucent) and they're noticeably more swollen. I never worry about endospores, though. By soaking you actually provoke the production of millions more endospores than you started with.


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Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #18959160 - 10/10/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Endospores do not need to germinate to be killed.  Stinky, fermented grains will have far more endospores than the original dry grain simply because endospore forming bacteria will begin to form new endospores within hours of germination.




I came in to say this. I don't agree that soaking does all of the hydrating that you need. I soak my WBS for ~24 hours per batch, and I change the water often to keep it hot (comes out of my tap at about 150F) and this still doesn't completely hydrate it. A few minutes of simmering (until the milo starts to split and the wheat goes translucent) and they're noticeably more swollen. I never worry about endospores, though. By soaking you actually provoke the production of millions more endospores than you started with.





Yup:stoned::thumbup:


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OfflineMoGrow
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: Brain Fart]
    #18959472 - 10/10/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

As the liquid heats, its molecules begin to move around very rapidly. These molecules bump into the grains, disrupting their structure enough to cause the grains to take in more water. At a certain point during heating, the solution reaches a balance where the grains are still mostly intact but have absorbed as much liquid as they can.




grains do absorb water when heated, i never simmer i bring to a boil, then turn off the stove. My grains do more absorbing during the boil than they do for the 16-24 hours they soak.

Ive used the no soak method before and it worked fine, Endospore is the #1 reason i soak. Does it matter? IDK ive never had an issue w/ either method, but my product is too important to me to take a chance, so i soak. To my understanding soaking for endospores is for inside the grains not outside so the increase in endospores from soaking is irrelevant since were talking external endos in the water and on the outside of the grains.

PCing is suposed to kill everything in your PC, yet ive used grains after a 36 hour soak (got wrecked one night and forgot about them) even after rinsing the grains 6 or 7 times before stove topping. I lost 1:5 jars to bacterial contam (this is the only time ive had this issue). So  again IDK. just my $.2 worth of experience.


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OfflineSillyputty67

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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? *DELETED* [Re: MoGrow]
    #18959517 - 10/10/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Sillyputty67

Reason for deletion: 1



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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: Sillyputty67]
    #18959639 - 10/10/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

malicom said:
1 out of 5 is not bad.




1 out of 5 is awful. That's a 20% contam rate. Anything more than 1% is unacceptable IMO.


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Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineSillyputty67

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 2,239
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: can you soak WBS for too long? *DELETED* [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #18959913 - 10/10/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Sillyputty67

Reason for deletion: 1



Edited by Sillyputty67 (10/10/13 03:29 PM)


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OfflineMoGrow
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: Sillyputty67]
    #18960293 - 10/10/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I was :bonghit: when i typed that, im :bonghit: now but i see a mistake in what i typed, it was 72 hours i guess i said 36 because i had 3 days on my mind, or maybe it was because i still had 36fuckin5's post rattling around.

1 in 5 is horrible, but i didnt get a spawn contam they had bacterial contam before i ever thought about g2ging to them, i let them sit for a week because they soaked for so long, i lost 5 out of 27 jars i PCed. This was the only incident ive ever had w/ bacterial contams in a jar, ive only delt w/ it on agar (from dead skin cells falling i assume).

This is the only loss to sterilization ive encountered and the only difference between this run and the countless other successful ones, is the soak time on the grains, and the fact they were stupendously fermented. Of course this was just to see if they would be of use, gladly i only lost 5 :omgawesome:


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Edited by MoGrow (10/10/13 04:38 PM)


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: MoGrow]
    #18960344 - 10/10/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Glad to know I'm on your mind. :crazy:

You learned a cheap lesson. Remember it.


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Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineMoGrow
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Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: 36fuckin5] * 1
    #18960400 - 10/10/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yea it only happened once, cuz i got wrecked and forgot about em, should have made some shine. :lol:


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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: can you soak WBS for too long? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19009255 - 10/21/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Quote:

malicom said:
1 out of 5 is not bad.




1 out of 5 is awful. That's a 20% contam rate. Anything more than 1% is unacceptable IMO.




lol right


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