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Offlinetripluv
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pf jars and mad bag options
    #18945016 - 10/07/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I am a first timer and have some questions. I have 15 pf tek half pint jars close to 100% colonization that I will let consolidate for a week before birthing. I also have 8 mad bags that I inoculated a week before the jars and are mostly 90-100% colonized.

I would like to use the monotub method after reading endless info on the shroomery. I am not exactly sure what the mad bags consist of as they are supposed to be in vitro grow bags, but I am feeling ambitious. They have some grain for sure - could I spawn (not sure that is the correct terminology here) the bags to a monotub? What is recommended method? Better to do after first flush?

I also bought plenty of peat, verm, crushed oyster shell, lime, and perlite to do a separate 50/50+ casing tub and third tub as straight pf tek jars dunked and rolled on perlite.  Would I be better off using the jars with the monotub?  Could I combine jars and bags in monotub (this seems unlikely, but I am curious)?  :stirthepot: 

My grow hasnt been flawless as I threw out a jar yesterday with no mycelium, but cloudy white contam that was turning tan/brownish. I opened the jar outside before tossing it, so that I could get a whiff of my first contam and it was AWFUL smelling, haha.  Name of mold, anyone?

I'm sure some of you think that I am trying too much to start  :wowz: , but I worked in a lab growing cancer cells under laminar flow some years back (so some experience playing with cells, media, contams, etc) and am excited about playing with all this dirt, spores, microscopes, and techniques  :rockon: . Any and all input is greatly appreciated!


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
    #18945094 - 10/07/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The options really consist of exactly what you've listed and with as many jars and spawn bags as there are, I would say that you have plenty enough to experiment with all of the available options to figure out whatever works best for however you do things.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Muffinman1552]
    #18945136 - 10/07/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I would recommend you just birth your cakes and mad bags into a sgfc and fruit them that way but go ahead and start you some grain jars to use to spawn a monotub with.
I think it is important to fruit mushrooms in a regular old manual sgfc for your first grow. It gives you a very good opportunity to learn how to watch the mushrooms grow and see what they need to grow.

Btw you could combine jars and bags to spawn a monotub


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Offlinetripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
    #18949843 - 10/08/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for the input. I do plan on birthing some of the cakes to a SGFC, but not the bags as I remember reading FrankH saying he got nothing but contams when treating the bags like cakes.

I forgot to mention that I also bought a mono tub fill kit from a sponsor containing: 3 one pound bags of rye berries, 2 five pound bags of Manure Based Mushroom Substrate and 1 one pound bag of casing.  I have some more MS syringes that I could noc the rye berries up with, but MS just doesnt sound great after doing research.  I also watched the entire "Let's grow mushrooms" catalog by RR this morning and want to do cloning and isolation on agar if I get some decent fruits.

I could just take my 4 fully colonized bags and break it up with the manure substrate, let that colonize in a tub, then case, and fruit, correct?  Is that overkill?

Also, the mycelium in this jar (you can see it on the right side) and a couple others have pulled away from the side of the jar a good 1/2" - is that normal?  What does it indicate?  Does there look like too much condensation in the jar?



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Offlinetripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
    #18949884 - 10/08/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

psilly, after going back and reading your bulk tek maybe I should go ahead and noc up some grain jars (I happen to have pint and a half on hand) just to have at least one good one to go for g2g when I'm ready.  How many cc's of MS do you suppose is good for pint and a half? 5?


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
    #18949943 - 10/08/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

1 cc is more than enough. Heck a half of a cc is enough. Sorry I haven't got any pics up on the tek yet. I been pretty busy with my bees


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
    #18950024 - 10/08/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

From the materials as youve listed them, you can inoculate the rye berries and allow it to fully colonize and mix it in with a bulk substrate as a seperate project while you may as well use your fully colonized substrate as spawn for your bulk manure and casing.
Rye grain spawn however can also be used as a spawn culture for jars as you will only need a few grains per jar and you will therefore have the opportunity to make as many jars as you wish with a substrate of your choice. (provided that you have sterile conditions with which to inoculate your jars)
As for the reductions from the walls of your jar, I would attribute it to a fully colonized cake. Condensation is normal.


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Offlinetripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Muffinman1552]
    #18950885 - 10/08/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Good to know about my jars!  Thanks for the advice about what to do with the rye, poop, and casing - sounds like what I'll do in addition to the all important and most educational pf tek.  I am, however, uncertain about what you're saying about the rye spawn...Are you saying to fully colonize a grain jar as a master, then take a little clump of colonized grain and move it, in a SAB (I def dont have laminar flow), to another jar containing whatever bulk substrate I want?

Also, my spore syringes are pretty clear looking from a no-longer-sponsored-vendor (not LC), however they did seem to work well with the mad bags and my pf jars - 4 1/2 weeks and 3 1/2 weeks for full colonization, respectively. Just making sure that 1/2cc is still good with that info...

Looking forward to the picks, psilly, and have fun with the bees!


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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
    #18950982 - 10/08/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

1/2 cc is still enough with a "clear" syringe. I guarantee you there are a lot more spores in there than you realize

Good luck bud. Let us know how it goes


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Offlinetripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
    #18951030 - 10/08/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ya man! Looking forward to posting some pics of my own if all goes well!!  :grin:


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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
    #18951062 - 10/08/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Stick to the teks of people like frankhorrigan and transcending life and you'll be good. My complete bulk tek came from a combination of their teks. I was just trying to combine everything in one place to make it easier for first timers. It still needs some work, some editing, and some pics to make it a little easier to follow for a first time grower. When it gets cold out soon I will have a lot more time


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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
    #18951100 - 10/08/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

would like to use the monotub method after reading endless info on the shroomery. I am not exactly sure what the mad bags consist of as they are supposed to be in vitro grow bags, but I am feeling ambitious.



If they're meant to be grown in vitro you could fruit them in a monotub as is (once they fully colonize). If they're just grains, no manure or compost or anything in the bag you would need to spawn the colonized grains to a bulk substrate or use a casing layer to fruit them.


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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Kizzle]
    #18951116 - 10/08/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

would like to use the monotub method after reading endless info on the shroomery. I am not exactly sure what the mad bags consist of as they are supposed to be in vitro grow bags, but I am feeling ambitious.



If they're meant to be grown in vitro you could fruit them in a monotub as is (once they fully colonize). If they're just grains, no manure or compost or anything in the bag you would need to spawn the colonized grains to a bulk substrate or use a casing layer to fruit them.




Mad bags are a mixture of Grain, brf, and vermiculite. They do ok invitro but they do really well fruiting in a sgfc. Although they take a while to colonize. I am speaking from personal experience.


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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
    #18951188 - 10/08/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So we want pics when this happens and we want to know what the hell are you going to do with all those mushies!

  Good Job Bro, Best of luck.


  Birth the Jars to a SGFC.

Bags to a Mono.

Get some Malt/Agar and start growing some Myc. Cancer Boy!


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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Sockadin]
    #18951317 - 10/08/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

haha, ya I tend to get carried away when I get excited about something! Pics will definitely be coming...I'm already dreaming up growing scenarios for pan cyans and azures - I would love to try some outside...AND definitely edibles!  I already have some san pedro cuttings rooting, haha. Ugliest cuttings ever...we'll see

malt/agar sounds a lot closer than my other dreams as I want to feel good about these cubes first


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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
    #18951331 - 10/08/13 07:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Get some Malt/Agar and start growing some Myc. Cancer Boy!




:lmafo:


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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Stromrider]
    #18951421 - 10/08/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

there will be a shock for most kinds of mycellium when introduced to a new substrate, however, yes, a chunk of fully colonized and fresh mycellium will colonize new substrate if handled correctly.


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Offlinetripluv
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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Muffinman1552]
    #18954073 - 10/09/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Anything wrong with starting a SGFC with a couple of the bags and then adding pf cakes later to the FC, like in a couple days when they are consolidated?

[tex][/
Quote:

Muffinman1552 said:
there will be a shock for most kinds of mycellium when introduced to a new substrate, however, yes, a chunk of fully colonized and fresh mycellium will colonize new substrate if handled correctly.




In RR's "Horse Manure Prep" video he spawns grain to horse poop in open air.  So, when do I need to be careful?  I guess when I'm going from grain master to another sterile substrate?  Guess I answered my own question, but I have zero experience


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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: tripluv]
    #18954779 - 10/09/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

In RR's "Horse Manure Prep" video he spawns grain to horse poop in open air.  So, when do I need to be careful?  I guess when I'm going from grain master to another sterile substrate?  Guess I answered my own question, but I have zero experience




horse manure is naturally resistant to contaminants as many other varieties of substrate are not.


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Re: pf jars and mad bag options [Re: Muffinman1552]
    #18954947 - 10/09/13 03:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

ahhh i see said the blind nooB  :bandana:

looking more into agar today, looks like a bunch of money to get started with petri dishes and MEA with all the steps in isolation!  Lot cheaper to clone with LC for a while


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