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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Global warming doesn't exist?
#18954656 - 10/09/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So i have met probably 4 conservatives my entire life. All of them had brought up the idea that global warming doesnt exist. I live in cali, so i rarely have heard the other side of the arguement. I believ that global warming is a very real thing
Could any ppl here explain to me the opposite side of the arguement?
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B_BOY
Phuck Ewe



Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 2,819
Loc: O
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: topdog82]
#18954662 - 10/09/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The Earth runs on cycles, has warmed and cooled many times in it's history, well before people were saying it is only man made.
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Mrdbrewer
Mr



Registered: 06/17/13
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Loc: Galafrey.
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: B_BOY]
#18954682 - 10/09/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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"the air temps arent rising anymore they have leveled off" ive heard this way to many times due to the mass production of co2 into the atmosphere the heat of the planet is rising but it going into the sea not the air thats why the ice caps are melting due to the temp of the water
-------------------- Constantly checking my dick and nips to see if im not dying
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dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Mrdbrewer]
#18954701 - 10/09/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
B_BOY said: The Earth runs on cycles, has warmed and cooled many times in it's history, well before people were saying it is only man made.
agreed. A major thing known about history
Ya in central FL most here are like, "global warming? Why don't you just kill yourself" pretty much verbatim lol.
Look at Iceland and how many active volcanos with that shit coming from them every day of the year. Fuck off with thar global warning shit lol
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: topdog82]
#18954718 - 10/09/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The Earth warms.
The Earth cools.
Weatherpersons still can't get the weather right a few days in advance.
We're supposed to believe that the prognosticators can somehow predict what the climate will be dozens of years from now. That some think they can, when the climate models have been shown to be so spectacularly wrong, just reveals the arrogance and desperation of those who attempt to sway public opinion.
The Earths temperature has been stable for quite some time now despite the increasing amounts of CO2. None of the models account for this.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Mrdbrewer]
#18954821 - 10/09/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html
The climate changes. Good thing, too. Until 10,000 years ago the planet had been in an ice that had blanketed the Northern hemisphere for 100,000 years. Alarmists make huge bank scaring the public. In the seventies it was global cooling. Some scientists think the results of computer modeling are facts. They are not. GIGO. They made predictions about 15 years ago that have not panned out. There has been no global warming since their predictions of disaster. What would a real scientist do? Scrap his model. What are these politicians masquerading as scientists doing? Doubling down and looking for excuses.
I want to make one fact perfectly clear. Cheap external sources of energy (i.e. not due to direct human physical labor) is what has allowed us to attain a level of comfort not seen for any species ever. It started with draft animals and water powered mills and has moved on to fossil fuels and a few other lesser sources. The other sources cannot replace fossil fuels. Not hydro, not solar, not nuclear, not wind, not geothermal. They all have huge limitations that just do not apply to burning of fossil fuels. There is no replacement. It would be a catastrophe of biblical proportions if we eliminate fossil fuels to the extent these nutcases insist on.
Eventually fossil fuels are going to run out, although it is a lot further down the road than the alarmists scream about. The only hope for civilization when that happens is to make our own suns. Fusion. That is it. While we funnel billions of dollars into bullshit that will never amount to cock we are neglecting fission research. All because of Greenpeace retards that have infested the policy making realms of government.
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Edited by zappaisgod (10/09/13 03:15 PM)
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Lynnch
Strangerer



Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,855
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod] 2
#18954842 - 10/09/13 03:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Therefore we should accept smog, acid rain, and oil spills in our oceans as just natural occurrences.
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B_BOY
Phuck Ewe



Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 2,819
Loc: O
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Lynnch]
#18954851 - 10/09/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lynnch said: Therefore we should accept smog, acid rain, and oil spills in our oceans as just natural occurrences.
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dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
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That and their fear of an explosion that will consume earth.
This whole thing is 
Who cares if its global warming or cooling. Its earth and like our body's maintains equalliberium as best as it can, and will continue to do so.
I believe in global equalliberium and it.Quote:
B_BOY said:
Quote:
Lynnch said: Therefore we should accept smog, acid rain, and oil spills in our oceans as just natural occurrences.

-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
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Spiderbaby
?



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Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18954857 - 10/09/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only hope for civilization when that happens is to make our own suns. Fission. That is it. While we funnel billions of dollars into bullshit that will never amount to cock we are neglecting fission research. All because of Greenpeace retards that have infested the policy making realms of government.
Great post but I assume you meant fusion.
Also on the topic of fusion energy http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24429621
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Heffy
BrauMeister



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Lynnch]
#18954865 - 10/09/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lynnch said: Therefore we should accept smog, acid rain, and oil spills in our oceans as just natural occurrences.
Global warming, and the negative effects of pollution are different things...... It's almost as if the huge concern about one has shifted attention away from the other.
-------------------- I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Lynnch] 1
#18954879 - 10/09/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lynnch said: Therefore we should accept smog, acid rain, and oil spills in our oceans as just natural occurrences.
What does that have to do with the global warming nonsense? This thread was about globullshit warming.
Smog and acid rain have been drastically reduced even though we are burning far more fossil fuels than ever before. Smog and acid rain are also byproducts of natural occurrences. Ever heard of volcanoes? Do you know how much oil seeps into the ocean naturally. We need fossil fuels as a civilization. Period. Burn it cleaner, fine but it is ridiculous to label CO2 as a pollutant. It is a naturally occurring gas that has increased from 0.03% of the atmosphere to 0.04% And this is a fucking catastrophe?
http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm
Quote:
As pointed out by the National Research Council (NRC) of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, "natural oil seeps contribute the highest amount of oil to the marine environment,
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Spiderbaby]
#18954885 - 10/09/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiderbaby said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only hope for civilization when that happens is to make our own suns. Fission. That is it. While we funnel billions of dollars into bullshit that will never amount to cock we are neglecting fission research. All because of Greenpeace retards that have infested the policy making realms of government.
Great post but I assume you meant fusion.
Also on the topic of fusion energy http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24429621
My bad, I did mean exactly that. I shall edit
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theonlysun81
Long Time Lurker, Recent Member


Registered: 05/11/12
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18954908 - 10/09/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Lynnch said: Therefore we should accept smog, acid rain, and oil spills in our oceans as just natural occurrences.
What does that have to do with the global warming nonsense? This thread was about globullshit warming.
Smog and acid rain have been drastically reduced even though we are burning far more fossil fuels than ever before. Smog and acid rain are also byproducts of natural occurrences. Ever heard of volcanoes? Do you know how much oil seeps into the ocean naturally. We need fossil fuels as a civilization. Period. Burn it cleaner, fine but it is ridiculous to label CO2 as a pollutant. It is a naturally occurring gas that has increased from 0.03% of the atmosphere to 0.04% And this is a fucking catastrophe?
http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm
Quote:
As pointed out by the National Research Council (NRC) of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, "natural oil seeps contribute the highest amount of oil to the marine environment,
yes naturally acid rain occurs, water is acidic and hard, and oil seeps into the oceans. But these natural behaviors have evolved over the course of hundreds of thousands of years to come to an equilibrium. Its when humans accelerate and maintain disequilibrium faster than nature can evolve that will turn this planet into a wasteland.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: theonlysun81]
#18954940 - 10/09/13 03:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Amazingly enough the environment manages to deal with the extra oil in the oceans and, like I said, acid rain has been vastly decreased due to cleaner burning methods. Although probably not in China, who aren't going to do shit about it. Oil spills are a temporary local issue and not frequent enough to merit insane measures, like halting oil drilling in the ocean, to stop.
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Lynnch
Strangerer



Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,855
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955016 - 10/09/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The main assertion from global warming deniers is that human beings do not affect the environment, when it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that we do. I frankly don't care what your opinion on the science of global systems that few people can completely understand is. I simply find any argument against cleaner, more efficient, and renewable energy idiotic. You're arguing against progress. Why don't you want us to do better?
There's less smog in the air because we've forced people to put catalytic converters in their cars. We cured a bunch of nasty disease once we got our heads out of our asses and realized we shouldn't dump our shit in the same river we were drinking out of. Clean air and water is WAY more important to us as people than a couple of assholes being able to make more money.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Lynnch]
#18955043 - 10/09/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The main assertion should be to strive for a better environment, but know what the fuck you're talking about before making huge and expensive changes.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: topdog82]
#18955048 - 10/09/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The undeniable fact is that the scientific community agrees that the planet is warming because of human activities. There are a few scientists that do not subscribe to that theory, but there is no real debate any longer within the scientific community.
The real debate is about what the effects will be of global warming. There is no consensus as to what we can expect in the next decade or three.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: topdog82]
#18955065 - 10/09/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: So i have met probably 4 conservatives my entire life. All of them had brought up the idea that global warming doesnt exist. I live in cali, so i rarely have heard the other side of the arguement. I believ that global warming is a very real thing
Could any ppl here explain to me the opposite side of the arguement?
It does exist, it's been proven 2 or 3 weeks ago. The earth is warming due to human activity and scientist are now 98% sure of it. It was a study made in collaboration of hundreds of scientist worldwide and confirmed by several hundreds more to see if the proper scientific method had been used. It was.
It used to be a 50/50 thing that was unproven so people could be either for or against. Now the evidence is overwhelming. I had to completely change my view on the environment 3 weeks ago, I was part of the clan that it was the natural cycle of things, but apparently it's not that.
As a brand new environmentalist, I have to adjust my behaviors and my views about everyday living. I now have to support ideas like carbon taxes and clean energy and stuff. Even if it costs billions.
Its kinda weird, its not a hippy bandwagon anymore, its proven scientific fact. I am a man of science.
Now, as a provate citizen, changing my views is easy. How long until the government changes its views and adapts, that's another story
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Lynnch]
#18955073 - 10/09/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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waters will spread the people into the motherland of Russia, and into the oceans, where they will drown.
those who survive will be come Russianese, and speak in a dialect not unlike the Future People from South Park, and we'll homogenize into a peaceful workforce.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Lynnch]
#18955085 - 10/09/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lynnch said: The main assertion from global warming deniers is that human beings do not affect the environment, when it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that we do.
Of course we do. Stop raising straw men. You sound like Obama.Quote:
I frankly don't care what your opinion on the science of global systems that few people can completely understand is.
Few people? How about NO people. They made predictions, their predictions were wrong. Now what?
Quote:
I simply find any argument against cleaner, more efficient, and renewable energy idiotic. You're arguing against progress.
Who is arguing against cleaner and more efficient? What renewable? It can never take the place of non renewables and they come with their own issues of environmental harm. Hydro fucks fish. Wind fucks birds. Solar has a whole shit load of environmental issues. Do you have any idea what batteries are made of and how toxic they are? The stupid curly light bulbs come with a government issued 20 page treatise on how to deal with them if you break one.Quote:
Why don't you want us to do better?
I do want us to do better and I clearly elucidated it. Fusion. Fusion or we devolve into a feral state in a few centuries. That's it. Evrything else is a jerk off.Quote:
There's less smog in the air because we've forced people to put catalytic converters in their cars. We cured a bunch of nasty disease once we got our heads out of our asses and realized we shouldn't dump our shit in the same river we were drinking out of. Clean air and water is WAY more important to us as people than a couple of assholes being able to make more money.
This has nothing to do with a couple of assholes making money ot is about the whole society. Speaking of assholes making money have you ever seen Al Gore's carbon footprint? It's fucking huge.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955092 - 10/09/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The undeniable fact is that the scientific community agrees that the planet is warming because of human activities. There are a few scientists that do not subscribe to that theory, but there is no real debate any longer within the scientific community.
The real debate is about what the effects will be of global warming. There is no consensus as to what we can expect in the next decade or three.
You should stick to law
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dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Lynnch]
#18955099 - 10/09/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lynnch said: The main assertion from global warming deniers is that human beings do not affect the environment, when it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that we do. I frankly don't care what your opinion on the science of global systems that few people can completely understand is. I simply find any argument against cleaner, more efficient, and renewable energy idiotic. You're arguing against progress. Why don't you want us to do better?
There's less smog in the air because we've forced people to put catalytic converters in their cars. We cured a bunch of nasty disease once we got our heads out of our asses and realized we shouldn't dump our shit in the same river we were drinking out of. Clean air and water is WAY more important to us as people than a couple of assholes being able to make more money.
It was proven (prove me wrong) that the machines and programs tend to overestimate their results.
Also there is no way I'm going to change my ways. Ill burn plastic and run a motor till the gas is out rather then empty the tank any other way.
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955113 - 10/09/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Enlil said: The undeniable fact is that the scientific community agrees that the planet is warming because of human activities. There are a few scientists that do not subscribe to that theory, but there is no real debate any longer within the scientific community.
The real debate is about what the effects will be of global warming. There is no consensus as to what we can expect in the next decade or three.
You should stick to law
You should stick to framing buildings.
"In the scientific literature, there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused mainly by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases. No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955119 - 10/09/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Enlil said: The undeniable fact is that the scientific community agrees that the planet is warming because of human activities. There are a few scientists that do not subscribe to that theory, but there is no real debate any longer within the scientific community.
The real debate is about what the effects will be of global warming. There is no consensus as to what we can expect in the next decade or three.
You should stick to law
You should stick to framing buildings.
"In the scientific literature, there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused mainly by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases. No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming
Enlil is right. It's now 98% sure humans are responsible for it.
Get updated on science dude, you can't just spit out opinions like its a 50/50 issue anymore.
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Edited by Patlal (10/09/13 04:29 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil] 1
#18955120 - 10/09/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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"you should stick to your day job." LOLOLOLOL that's the discourse here
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dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955128 - 10/09/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just because a government wants to go to war doesn't mean everyone wants two. Their are few still in those institutions that don't agree but the majority does do they say "WE"
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: dark3st]
#18955148 - 10/09/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There are still people that believe that the world is flat and that 9/11 was an "inside job." For any theory, however inane, you can find people stupid enough to believe it.
There is, however, no debate in the scientific community. There is one in congress (largely along party lines) and in the media...but not in the scientific community.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955212 - 10/09/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Enlil said: The undeniable fact is that the scientific community agrees that the planet is warming because of human activities. There are a few scientists that do not subscribe to that theory, but there is no real debate any longer within the scientific community.
The real debate is about what the effects will be of global warming. There is no consensus as to what we can expect in the next decade or three.
You should stick to law
You should stick to framing buildings.
"In the scientific literature, there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused mainly by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases. No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming
I am quite sure that in the course of your university experience you assiduously avoided science courses. I did not. Geography, oceanography, two semesters pre med chem, biochemistry, more. Here is how science works. You make an observation and come up with an idea. Then you test it. If the ides pans out you test it some more and some other people do too. These guys had an idea and made a prediction. IT DIDN'T PAN OUT! It has been long enough that it is significant. There is not one shred of real evidence that changing the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere from .03% to 0.04% is in any way catastrophic. It is all speculation and the speculation has been thwarted. That is not science.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: topdog82]
#18955227 - 10/09/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is such a thing as natural asphalt, floating in water ways. It has been collected by mankind, since times immemorial, and even feeds it's own microbes. We were told of a fragile crust and great pressure, beyond the ability of mankind to control them. In some cases, they are part of the ecology.
In my region, volcanic vents show up on Doppler radar, as clouds periodically emanating from the same pinpoint, but never moving far from it. Hotpools come to the surface, in open desert, and are found in nearby caves. The sulfurous smell is arguably geological in scope, is apparent from a much greater distance than automobile exhaust. These same compounds have been prescribed as a way to cool the planet but would result in acid rains.
Quote:
Could any ppl here explain to me the opposite side of the arguement?
I understand that, in the 70's, the threat of an ice age was popular.
But, it has been claimed that temperature change, probably resulting from solar cycles, occurs throughout the entire solar system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_decadal_oscillation http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2006/161106suvjupiter.htm
Talking heads on either side of the (hot vs. cold) debate were debunked, so have since blamed change, itself, on mankind.
Quote:
We need fossil fuels as a civilization. Period.
What we tend to call civilization is driven by noble lies, change agents, false flags, and reconstruction.
Voluntary de-industrialization, and coping with it's results, would count as one such disaster.
In ancient times, there were peace pacts and pledges of fealty. With all due respect to the good stewards and free thinkers, asking innocent questions, here, alarmism for it's own sake would have been considered criminal, in those days.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955233 - 10/09/13 04:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can rage and argue all you want, but the scientific community isn't. I'm sure you're an expert and all, but other experts nearly universally disagree with you.
And you're wrong. I took a lot of science classes in college. I even took a class on global warming. I also took oceanography, biology, chemistry, physics, and Lighting Design (the most scientific of all my classes).
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955258 - 10/09/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: There are still people that believe that the world is flat and that 9/11 was an "inside job." For any theory, however inane, you can find people stupid enough to believe it.
There is, however, no debate in the scientific community. There is one in congress (largely along party lines) and in the media...but not in the scientific community.
There is lots of debate in the science community http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/13/validity-of-marcott-et-al-part-ii/
But you wouldn't know that because of the poodle press who also make bank scaring people. Let me remind you that in the seventies there was a consensus that we were cooling.
Here's a nifty little feature about science. You have to prove something to a probability that it isn't chance by about 20 to 1 through experimentation. Computer models are NOT science. They made predictions and they were wrong over 15 years during which time emissions of CO2 went up.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955263 - 10/09/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You can rage and argue all you want, but the scientific community isn't. I'm sure you're an expert and all, but other experts nearly universally disagree with you.
And you're wrong. I took a lot of science classes in college. I even took a class on global warming. I also took oceanography, biology, chemistry, physics, and Lighting Design (the most scientific of all my classes).
Then how come you don't know what science is?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955265 - 10/09/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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they are basing their assumptions off of computer models? what is this the Deadliest Warrior?
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dark3st
Stranger

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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955269 - 10/09/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Therefore my idea of releasing bubbles from the bottom of the ocean with a net charge so the hydrogen and oxygen get stripped from each other under pressure and the natural charge of the ocean causing an increase in O2 and H displacing the CO2
My science is a little off but I've been out of classes for a month or 4
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955270 - 10/09/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The institutions are funded, accredited organs of a biased state.
And, limiting the number of people, able to receive credentials, is a form of market control, which privileges adherents to their ideologies.
None of their philosophy was necessary to a technical field, formerly learned by apprenticeship.
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Fire is Born
wanderer



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955297 - 10/09/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html
The climate changes. Good thing, too. Until 10,000 years ago the planet had been in an ice that had blanketed the Northern hemisphere for 100,000 years. Alarmists make huge bank scaring the public. In the seventies it was global cooling. Some scientists think the results of computer modeling are facts. They are not. GIGO. They made predictions about 15 years ago that have not panned out. There has been no global warming since their predictions of disaster. What would a real scientist do? Scrap his model. What are these politicians masquerading as scientists doing? Doubling down and looking for excuses.
I want to make one fact perfectly clear. Cheap external sources of energy (i.e. not due to direct human physical labor) is what has allowed us to attain a level of comfort not seen for any species ever. It started with draft animals and water powered mills and has moved on to fossil fuels and a few other lesser sources. The other sources cannot replace fossil fuels. Not hydro, not solar, not nuclear, not wind, not geothermal. They all have huge limitations that just do not apply to burning of fossil fuels. There is no replacement. It would be a catastrophe of biblical proportions if we eliminate fossil fuels to the extent these nutcases insist on.
Eventually fossil fuels are going to run out, although it is a lot further down the road than the alarmists scream about. The only hope for civilization when that happens is to make our own suns. Fusion. That is it. While we funnel billions of dollars into bullshit that will never amount to cock we are neglecting fission research. All because of Greenpeace retards that have infested the policy making realms of government.
The daily mail?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
#18955299 - 10/09/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: The institutions are funded, accredited organs of a biased state.
And, limiting the number of people, able to receive credentials, is a form of market control, which privileges adherents to their ideologies.
None of their philosophy was necessary to a technical field, formerly learned by apprenticeship.
i agree with this sentiment.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955301 - 10/09/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: they are basing their assumptions off of computer models? what is this the Deadliest Warrior?
Yep. Other than that they got nothing.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955305 - 10/09/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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if people want an answer enough they... make a computer get it for them, no problem.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955308 - 10/09/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Enlil said: There are still people that believe that the world is flat and that 9/11 was an "inside job." For any theory, however inane, you can find people stupid enough to believe it.
There is, however, no debate in the scientific community. There is one in congress (largely along party lines) and in the media...but not in the scientific community.
There is lots of debate in the science community http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/13/validity-of-marcott-et-al-part-ii/
But you wouldn't know that because of the poodle press who also make bank scaring people. Let me remind you that in the seventies there was a consensus that we were cooling.
Here's a nifty little feature about science. You have to prove something to a probability that it isn't chance by about 20 to 1 through experimentation. Computer models are NOT science. They made predictions and they were wrong over 15 years during which time emissions of CO2 went up.
That article is from March 2013.
The study I'm talking about is 3 weeks old.
it has proven with 95% accuracy that global warming is due to human behavior
Now you can choose to believe science and get up to date with recent discoveries
OR
You can look like an idiot denying scientific facts.
Your choice
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Edited by Patlal (10/09/13 04:55 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Fire is Born]
#18955310 - 10/09/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fire is Born said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html
The climate changes. Good thing, too. Until 10,000 years ago the planet had been in an ice that had blanketed the Northern hemisphere for 100,000 years. Alarmists make huge bank scaring the public. In the seventies it was global cooling. Some scientists think the results of computer modeling are facts. They are not. GIGO. They made predictions about 15 years ago that have not panned out. There has been no global warming since their predictions of disaster. What would a real scientist do? Scrap his model. What are these politicians masquerading as scientists doing? Doubling down and looking for excuses.
I want to make one fact perfectly clear. Cheap external sources of energy (i.e. not due to direct human physical labor) is what has allowed us to attain a level of comfort not seen for any species ever. It started with draft animals and water powered mills and has moved on to fossil fuels and a few other lesser sources. The other sources cannot replace fossil fuels. Not hydro, not solar, not nuclear, not wind, not geothermal. They all have huge limitations that just do not apply to burning of fossil fuels. There is no replacement. It would be a catastrophe of biblical proportions if we eliminate fossil fuels to the extent these nutcases insist on.
Eventually fossil fuels are going to run out, although it is a lot further down the road than the alarmists scream about. The only hope for civilization when that happens is to make our own suns. Fusion. That is it. While we funnel billions of dollars into bullshit that will never amount to cock we are neglecting fission research. All because of Greenpeace retards that have infested the policy making realms of government.
The daily mail? 
Do you dispute their facts? Because I've seen this reported in lots of places. That just came up first in the Google search. Another example of a failed prediction.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955323 - 10/09/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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haha, don't even bother Zappa. what is going on here, is beyond capacity for critical human thought.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955325 - 10/09/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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A computer programmed by the hand of man is going to reflect his biases.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955333 - 10/09/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There really isn't, zap. I know you want to believe there is, but there isn't.
Global warming denial is on par with creationism. There is simply no debate or controversy to discuss. A few fringe scientists still hold on to theories about natural cycles, etc, but those theories are widely rejected by mainstream science.
You're entitled to hitch your wagon to the star of your choosing, of course. In this case, however, you're just clinging to an obsolete theory that isn't even credible enough to be argued anymore among scientists.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
#18955344 - 10/09/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: A computer programmed by the hand of man is going to reflect his biases.

lol, and people one: will denounce this concept and two: will continue to argue their biases and continue to prop up news articles to dissuade people's arguments, making room for more pointless arguing.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955352 - 10/09/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: There really isn't, zap. I know you want to believe there is, but there isn't.
Global warming denial is on par with creationism. There is simply no debate or controversy to discuss. A few fringe scientists still hold on to theories about natural cycles, etc, but those theories are widely rejected by mainstream science.
You're entitled to hitch your wagon to the star of your choosing, of course. In this case, however, you're just clinging to an obsolete theory that isn't even credible enough to be argued anymore among scientists.
scientists = all prevailing human knowledge inspector
yeah, they can't be fallible in their believes or anything? i am pretty sure all Zappa is arguing is that there is no proof, so... are we done now? or is this gonna... nope, it's gonna just... well... ok.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Posts: 65,505
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955380 - 10/09/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Of course they can be fallible. My argument is pretty simple:
1. Zappa is not an expert. 2. I am not an expert. 3. No one on this site is an expert. 4. Nearly every expert agrees that global warming is caused by human factors.
Any opinion I render or Zappa renders on the topic is close enough to worthless that we might as well consider them worthless.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18955393 - 10/09/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Enlil said: There are still people that believe that the world is flat and that 9/11 was an "inside job." For any theory, however inane, you can find people stupid enough to believe it.
There is, however, no debate in the scientific community. There is one in congress (largely along party lines) and in the media...but not in the scientific community.
There is lots of debate in the science community http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/13/validity-of-marcott-et-al-part-ii/
But you wouldn't know that because of the poodle press who also make bank scaring people. Let me remind you that in the seventies there was a consensus that we were cooling.
Here's a nifty little feature about science. You have to prove something to a probability that it isn't chance by about 20 to 1 through experimentation. Computer models are NOT science. They made predictions and they were wrong over 15 years during which time emissions of CO2 went up.
That article is from March 2013.
The study I'm talking about is 3 weeks old.
it has proven with 98% accuracy that global warming is due to human behavior
Now you can choose to believe science and get up to date with recent discoveries
OR
You can look like an idiot denying scientific facts.
Your choice
What study?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html
Quote:
Professor Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon.
And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.
http://chipstero7.blogspot.com/2012/03/unprecedented-warming-oh-really.html
Quote:
HADCRUT data shows no “statistically-significant warming” Here’s something interesting that you won’t hear from the IPCC. The HADCRUT3 data (the IPCC’s own data no less) shows that the temperature increased at almost exactly the same rate between 1910-1940 as it did between 1980-2000. According to the CAGW-hypothesis, it should have accelerated as our CO2-emissions accelerated, however it did not. In a 2010 BBC-interview Phil Jones (a leading CAGW-proponent) was asked: “Do you agree that according to the global temperature record used by the IPCC, the rates of global warming from 1860-1880, 1910-1940 and 1975-1998 were identical?” Phil Jones scarcely acknowledges the significance of his own words: “So, in answer to the question, the warming rates for all 4 periods are similar and not statistically significantly different from each other”. In other words, there is no anthropogenic signature in the homogenised global surface temperature record and the warming is within long-term natural variation. Furthermore, the HADCRUT4 data shows no statistically significant warming for 15 years, thereby demonstrating a divergence between atmospheric CO2 and temperature. See here. Quote from article: “The graph shows the global annual average temperature since 1997. No statistically significant trend can be discerned from the data. The only statistically acceptable conclusion to be drawn from the HADCRUT4 data is that between 1997-2011 it has remained constant, with a global surface temperature of 14.44 +/- 0.16C”. Remarkably, this is something even Phil Jones agrees with. In the BBC-interview Jones was asked: “Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically significant global warming”. His reply? “Yes, but only just”. Question: What do the IPCC consider to be the ‘confounding variables’ and why was this not predicted by Hansen’s $100,000,000 computer models?
Here's what I demand of the glubullshitists. Show me the scientific proof. I give no shits about your models or your opinions. Where is the proof needed to enact huge changes in energy use that have allowed us to achieve our current unprecedented state of human comfort?
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955397 - 10/09/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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(Pardon my digression.)
Quote:
Global warming denial is on par with creationism.
Many 'secular' sciences, including that of evolutionism, were first founded by pagan mystery schools.
The forefront of cosmic humanism now recognizes intelligent design, but does not give credit to the Christian God.
Extra dimensional entities are no longer assumed to be spiritual, are predicted to take part in this very discussion, eventually to reshape human society.
Your strongest adherents do, in fact, make assumptions, no less colorful than those of evangelists.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955399 - 10/09/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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i'd agree with that sentiment, too.
but still, computer models are less then accurate for what be accepted as scientific fact. it's compelling, sure, but it isn't like a model prediction can be shown to be true until A: the time and prevalence in the models calculations are proven effective, as supporting a trend, and B: the model shows an ACTUAL prediction.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955408 - 10/09/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Of course they can be fallible. My argument is pretty simple:
1. Zappa is not an expert. 2. I am not an expert. 3. No one on this site is an expert. 4. Nearly every expert agrees that global warming is caused by human factors.
Any opinion I render or Zappa renders on the topic is close enough to worthless that we might as well consider them worthless.
I am not just rendering my opinion, I am providing links to scientists who dispute it. You are ignorant of the debate because you only read the popular press.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955417 - 10/09/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't read any press.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955418 - 10/09/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: i'd agree with that sentiment, too.
but still, computer models are less then accurate for what be accepted as scientific fact. it's compelling, sure, but it isn't like a model prediction can be shown to be true until A: the time and prevalence in the models calculations are proven effective, as supporting a trend, and B: the model shows an ACTUAL prediction.
This has been the failure. There are a lot of people making a lot of money from scaring the dipshit browsers of information.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955445 - 10/09/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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dark3st
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955449 - 10/09/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Whose to say those algorithms are accurate.
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: dark3st]
#18955453 - 10/09/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There are many thousands of eyes connected to highly educated brains that have looked at it. Do you have any reason to believe it's wrong other than the fact that you wish it were?
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akira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955476 - 10/09/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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is there any reason for anything in this thread at all, since all anyone seems to be doing is arguing for the sake of arguing and not having any verification as to whether or not a computer models predictions will prove to be accurate?
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
#18955487 - 10/09/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bias is implied when the study is funded by wealth, expropriated at gunpoint, and dissenting opinion is politically incorrect.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955493 - 10/09/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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--------------------
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955500 - 10/09/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: There are many thousands of eyes connected to highly educated brains that have looked at it. Do you have any reason to believe it's wrong other than the fact that you wish it were?
Do you pay any attention at all or just read the headlines of your local newspaper written by scientific illiterates?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955508 - 10/09/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Enlil said: There are still people that believe that the world is flat and that 9/11 was an "inside job." For any theory, however inane, you can find people stupid enough to believe it.
There is, however, no debate in the scientific community. There is one in congress (largely along party lines) and in the media...but not in the scientific community.
There is lots of debate in the science community http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/13/validity-of-marcott-et-al-part-ii/
But you wouldn't know that because of the poodle press who also make bank scaring people. Let me remind you that in the seventies there was a consensus that we were cooling.
Here's a nifty little feature about science. You have to prove something to a probability that it isn't chance by about 20 to 1 through experimentation. Computer models are NOT science. They made predictions and they were wrong over 15 years during which time emissions of CO2 went up.
That article is from March 2013.
The study I'm talking about is 3 weeks old.
it has proven with 98% accuracy that global warming is due to human behavior
Now you can choose to believe science and get up to date with recent discoveries
OR
You can look like an idiot denying scientific facts.
Your choice
What study?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html
I jsut said that March 2013 was obsolete and you reply with a 2010 article?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955509 - 10/09/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You and your mainstream press, bro...
I'm guessing you didn't even read the summary...much less the report.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955512 - 10/09/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Enlil said: There are many thousands of eyes connected to highly educated brains that have looked at it. Do you have any reason to believe it's wrong other than the fact that you wish it were?
Do you pay any attention at all or just read the headlines of your local newspaper written by scientific illiterates?
As I said before...I don't read any press.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955513 - 10/09/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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i have the feeling the longer we go, the more like paper this thread is gonna be like.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955521 - 10/09/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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What IPCC? I read what the NY Times said about it. That has nothing to do with the fact that it is a political organization and not a scientific one.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955522 - 10/09/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm just gonna leave stop arguing with Zappa. Let him and his pals Adam and Eve sort this out.
Clearly when you deny science over personal belief, you are a lost cause.
Don't forget to vote Republican Zap!
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mr sniffles
expert textpert


Registered: 06/03/13
Posts: 1,663
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18955526 - 10/09/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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i did not read this topic
but neither is adhd or aspergers
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18955527 - 10/09/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
There is lots of debate in the science community http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/13/validity-of-marcott-et-al-part-ii/
But you wouldn't know that because of the poodle press who also make bank scaring people. Let me remind you that in the seventies there was a consensus that we were cooling.
Here's a nifty little feature about science. You have to prove something to a probability that it isn't chance by about 20 to 1 through experimentation. Computer models are NOT science. They made predictions and they were wrong over 15 years during which time emissions of CO2 went up.
That article is from March 2013.
The study I'm talking about is 3 weeks old.
it has proven with 98% accuracy that global warming is due to human behavior
Now you can choose to believe science and get up to date with recent discoveries
OR
You can look like an idiot denying scientific facts.
Your choice
What study?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html
I jsut said that March 2013 was obsolete and you reply with a 2010 article?
So? You also said you had a study. Well?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18955530 - 10/09/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: I'm just gonna leave stop arguing with Zappa. Let him and his pals Adam and Eve sort this out.
Clearly when you deny science over personal belief, you are a lost cause.
Don't forget to vote Republican Zap!
Where is the science? Show it to me.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955535 - 10/09/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Enlil said: There are many thousands of eyes connected to highly educated brains that have looked at it. Do you have any reason to believe it's wrong other than the fact that you wish it were?
Do you pay any attention at all or just read the headlines of your local newspaper written by scientific illiterates?
As I said before...I don't read any press.
Then how do you know the science is settled? TV?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955536 - 10/09/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The NY times? and you accuse me of reading the local paper?
Your source "climatedepot.com" is funded largely by big oil. Again, there is no debate among the scientific community. There is only a political debate about it...not a scientific one.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Climate_Depot
P.S. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is a scientific intergovernmental body http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.shtml#.UlXopZ3D9GE
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955543 - 10/09/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: I'm just gonna leave stop arguing with Zappa. Let him and his pals Adam and Eve sort this out.
Clearly when you deny science over personal belief, you are a lost cause.
Don't forget to vote Republican Zap!
Where is the science? Show it to me.
Enlil just showed you.
PS: 3 weeks ago I would of backed you up 100%. I dind't believe anything global warming. But the latest study (which enlil posted, which you claim is bogus) pretty garantees its human behavior that causes global warming.
So I had to update my beliefs. So should you.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18955552 - 10/09/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The IPCC is currently preparing the Fifth Assessment report, which will be released in phases from September 2013 to October 2014
they say on that on the site. has this report come out yet, because it says on the site, the last report on Climate Change was in 2007.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18955607 - 10/09/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: I'm just gonna leave stop arguing with Zappa. Let him and his pals Adam and Eve sort this out.
Clearly when you deny science over personal belief, you are a lost cause.
Don't forget to vote Republican Zap!
Where is the science? Show it to me.
Enlil just showed you.
PS: 3 weeks ago I would of backed you up 100%. I dind't believe anything global warming. But the latest study (which enlil posted, which you claim is bogus) pretty garantees its human behavior that causes global warming.
So I had to update my beliefs. So should you.
The IPCC is not a study. It is a political paper
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955614 - 10/09/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The NY times? and you accuse me of reading the local paper?
Your source "climatedepot.com" is funded largely by big oil. Again, there is no debate among the scientific community. There is only a political debate about it...not a scientific one.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Climate_Depot
P.S. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is a scientific intergovernmental body http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.shtml#.UlXopZ3D9GE
The IPCC is a political body
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955617 - 10/09/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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that website is lol
Quote:
It does not conduct any research nor does it monitor climate related data or parameters.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955637 - 10/09/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The NY times? and you accuse me of reading the local paper?
Your source "climatedepot.com" is funded largely by big oil. Again, there is no debate among the scientific community. There is only a political debate about it...not a scientific one.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Climate_Depot
P.S. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is a scientific intergovernmental body http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.shtml#.UlXopZ3D9GE
Do you dispute the facts of the Climate Depot article? I posted two others that agree.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955643 - 10/09/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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At that rate, anyone with sufficient funds could clone the same sentiment, a thousand times, and say he has a consensus.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955645 - 10/09/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: that website is lol
Quote:
It does not conduct any research nor does it monitor climate related data or parameters.
Which one?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Loc: Ottawa
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955648 - 10/09/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: I'm just gonna leave stop arguing with Zappa. Let him and his pals Adam and Eve sort this out.
Clearly when you deny science over personal belief, you are a lost cause.
Don't forget to vote Republican Zap!
Where is the science? Show it to me.
Enlil just showed you.
PS: 3 weeks ago I would of backed you up 100%. I dind't believe anything global warming. But the latest study (which enlil posted, which you claim is bogus) pretty garantees its human behavior that causes global warming.
So I had to update my beliefs. So should you.
The IPCC is not a study. It is a political paper
Of course it is, who the hell has the money to fund such a big study? Governments teamed up to fund it. The goal was to discover the truth behind global warming
They involved hundreds of scientists and they made a their 2000 page paper. The conclusion is almost undeniable. 95% sure its caused by humans.
Results are results. You can bet on that 5% if you want. I won't.
When the scientific elite of the planet comes to a 95% conclusion. I take them seriously
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955676 - 10/09/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: that website is lol
Quote:
It does not conduct any research nor does it monitor climate related data or parameters.
Which one?
the iccp one. it's a clearly a government operated site, not independent.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal] 1
#18955679 - 10/09/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
When the scientific elite of the planet comes to a 95% conclusion. I take them seriously
where ... is... the... findings?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955692 - 10/09/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
When the scientific elite of the planet comes to a 95% conclusion. I take them seriously
where ... is... the... findings?
Enlil posted them earlier
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955718 - 10/09/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
When the scientific elite of the planet comes to a 95% conclusion. I take them seriously
where ... is... the... findings?
Quote:
Enlil said: Zappa, this is the latest report on Global warming. Feel free to debunk it:
http://www.climatechange2013.org/images/uploads/WGIAR5_WGI-12Doc2b_FinalDraft_All.pdf
It's about 2000 pages, but here's a summary:
http://www.climatechange2013.org/images/uploads/WGIAR5-SPM_Approved27Sep2013.pdf
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akira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955725 - 10/09/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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oh sorry, i missed that one fucking post. reading it now.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955731 - 10/09/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Posts: 16,685
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955750 - 10/09/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
A depiction of evidence and agreement statements and their relationship to confidence.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955785 - 10/09/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: There are so few scientists that deny global warming that there is actually a wiki page listing them
just because there is an agreement that global warming exists, is there any determination that this "flux" of human propriety of climate warming, hasn't occurred before, but in a less "populated" circumstance? is it postulated that there is to be an imminent danger to the planet or life on the planet?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955797 - 10/09/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Enlil said: There are so few scientists that deny global warming that there is actually a wiki page listing them
just because there is an agreement that global warming exists, is there any determination that this "flux" of human propriety of climate warming, hasn't occurred before, but in a less "populated" circumstance? is it postulated that there is to be an imminent danger to the planet or life on the planet?
I recall a radio show that summurized the thing saying that by 2100 will will have passed the 0.04 ppm of CO2 and that the temperature would raise sufficiently high to do some serious damage. (I think)
Read the 2200 page document. I'm sure your questions will be answered
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18955805 - 10/09/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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meh, not interested right now. but i know where it is, for later. and hell if am gonna "soak it all in", i don't care if this world burns. i'm just here for the knowledge.
i'll skim through it, and see if there is any interesting findings.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18955813 - 10/09/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: There are so few scientists that deny global warming that there is actually a wiki page listing them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming
First five words on your link
Quote:
This is an incomplete list,
You are beclowning yourself. The IPCC report is not a study. Where is the study that establishes that human activity has raised CO2 production and that shows it causes climate change in any way at all?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955827 - 10/09/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Enlil said: There are so few scientists that deny global warming that there is actually a wiki page listing them
just because there is an agreement that global warming exists, is there any determination that this "flux" of human propriety of climate warming, hasn't occurred before, but in a less "populated" circumstance? is it postulated that there is to be an imminent danger to the planet or life on the planet?
I believe I posted a link previously in which Phil Jones, HAD CRUT and a disciple, admitted that there were at least 4 periods in recent history that showed a similar temperature increase.
I just want them to show me the proof. And then we can have a discussion about whether it is a bad thing.
--------------------
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955860 - 10/09/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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it's tough. tough stuff, zap.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955924 - 10/09/13 06:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It may be real or it may not be real. I just want them to prove it before we embark on a project that will thwart prosperity. There have been legions of them trying to prove it for decades and they haven't come close. The UN is a joke and always has been. 100 nations of losers and a handful of winners and the losers want the winners to cut their own nuts off to level the field. What do you think China and India are going to do? Bulletin.................Nothing.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955957 - 10/09/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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i've got the perfect song for this thread.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal] 1
#18955972 - 10/09/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: When the scientific elite of the planet comes to a 95% conclusion. I take them seriously
I will too. Let me know when that happens, because it hasn't yet.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18955977 - 10/09/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: i've got the perfect song for this thread.
I love him but he sure put out some godawful crap
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18956009 - 10/09/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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hahaha, that's why this is the best song for this thread. people clamoring over facts and suddenly you get smashed in the face with a rock, for having an opinion because we all have to fight for the "American way" as most people see it. when it's all the American way, it's just how things are, just how things go. people wanna get ahead of the curve, and people will fight over their differences because that's what is taught. conflict breeds innovation. so people are gonna end up getting shot, even the peacemakers.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18956042 - 10/09/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I only skimmed through this but I for one put very little faith in anything that a large corporation that is government funded tries to tell me to believe.
War on Drugs
9/11
Pearl Harbor
Gulf of Tonkin
GMO's are harmless.
Diet pop isn't bad for you.
Ringing any bells? The government and large corps lie to it's people on a regular basis...
Edited by TrentBoyett (10/09/13 07:23 PM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: TrentBoyett]
#18956086 - 10/09/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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How about the preferential rationing of useful resources, in the name of the better good.
We have a word for this, but no examples of it actually working.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: TrentBoyett]
#18956097 - 10/09/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just because they lie sometimes doesn't mean they lie all the time. 9/11 was perpetrated by a bunch of Muslim assholes. Pearl Harbor was perpetrated by a bunch of Japanese assholes. GMOs are extremely beneficial. Sugary soda is worse for you than diet soda and I don't drink either.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#18956135 - 10/09/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Just because they lie sometimes doesn't mean they lie all the time. 9/11 was perpetrated by a bunch of Muslim assholes. Pearl Harbor was perpetrated by a bunch of Japanese assholes. GMOs are extremely beneficial. Sugary soda is worse for you than diet soda and I don't drink either.
9/11 was carried out with help from people within the US government.
Yes Japan bombed pearl harbor, but the govt knew it was going to happen and they still let it happen.
Some GMO's may be beneficial, but a lot are untested, or were tested and show very bad results in mice/rats.
And idk if diet soda is better or worse than regular soda, but I know it's not good for you.
Gulf of Tonkin the govt let its own people die to further its own agenda.
And yeah but if you build a reputation as a liar I'm surely not going to believe what you say.
Edited by TrentBoyett (10/09/13 07:49 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: TrentBoyett]
#18956164 - 10/09/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjmihalov said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Just because they lie sometimes doesn't mean they lie all the time. 9/11 was perpetrated by a bunch of Muslim assholes. Pearl Harbor was perpetrated by a bunch of Japanese assholes. GMOs are extremely beneficial. Sugary soda is worse for you than diet soda and I don't drink either.
9/11 was carried out with help from people within the US government.
BullshitQuote:
Yes Japan bombed pearl harbor, but the govt knew it was going to happen and they still let it happen.
BullshitQuote:
Some GMO's may be beneficial, but a lot are untested, or were tested and show very bad results in mice/rats.
And a lot didn't. I am not a ratQuote:
And idk if diet soda is better or worse than regular soda, but I know it's not good for you.
Neither is pot or beer. Quote:
And yeah but if you build a reputation as a liar I'm surely not going to believe what you say.
You're first two points above do not do much to establish a trust link between you and me.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18956168 - 10/09/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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My problem with conspiracy theories is that the conventional explanation was enough to make hated authority figures seem incompetent, but the speculation would tend to make you believe that they are all powerful.
When I research what is probably, most-accurately called Luciferianism, the only sins are weakness and ignorance. It occurs to me that people such as those might tell you exactly what they are doing, considering your acceptance to be the only justification they need.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
#18956174 - 10/09/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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speculation would have me believe that all the world leaders are people like everyone else, and capable of being fallible and making mistakes whilst having the best of intentions.
and some of them are just really dumb, even if they are criminals.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18956195 - 10/09/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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imho, this begs a question. How do really dumb people rise in a meritocracy, or in the law of the jungle.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
#18956200 - 10/09/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Darwin's theory of evolution says they do.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18956202 - 10/09/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you don't believe 9/11 was an inside job by now than I'm sorry, there are WAY to many holes in their story for it to add up.
The thing about Pearl Harbor is well known.
You may not be a rat, but you are a mammal.
I never claimed they were(well not in this thread at least) but still that has nothing to do with anything, beer is not portrayed as being healthy.
And what no refuting GoT? Another well known time the govt lied to and sacrificed its own people.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
#18956242 - 10/09/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: imho, this begs a question. How do really dumb people rise in a meritocracy, or in the law of the jungle.
A gift for sales. Seen it many times.
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Envix
Avoidant Disorder



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18956246 - 10/09/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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C02 May not be harmful to the planet but it is harmful to our human bodies in large amounts in the environment
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Envix]
#18956254 - 10/09/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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but we can build domes, with air filtration. c'mon man. no one is gonna give up this endless pursuit of stuff. are they?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: TrentBoyett]
#18956284 - 10/09/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjmihalov said: If you don't believe 9/11 was an inside job by now than I'm sorry, there are WAY to many holes in their story for it to add up.
 Quote:
The thing about Pearl Harbor is well known.
Well known in nutland maybeQuote:
You may not be a rat, but you are a mammal.
Would that we had the same physiology. BUt we don't.Quote:
I never claimed they were(well not in this thread at least) but still that has nothing to do with anything, beer is not portrayed as being healthy.
Juice is bad for you too. If you follow all the bad for you crap all you should drink is water.Quote:
And what no refuting GoT? Another well known time the govt lied to and sacrificed its own people.
The Gulf of Tonkin lie is the least of the disgrace in Vietnam. The enemy were shits, our allies were shits and the greatest generation got a whole shit load of my generation killed for nothing because they refused to win. The enemy were pretty egregious scumbags themselves. If you think we were wrong entire to help the non communist Viets all you need to do is look at North Korea. A nation of slaves. It was right to fight the Cong. It was wrong to do it the way we did.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Envix] 1
#18956288 - 10/09/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Envix said: C02 May not be harmful to the planet but it is harmful to our human bodies in large amounts in the environment
What is a large amount? 5%? 20%?
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18956300 - 10/09/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well we obviously have different opinions, no reason to get all defensive.
And idk maybe it is well know in nutland as well, but its also well known here in the US and other countries with internet or television.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18956313 - 10/09/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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My personal greed has physical limits, without debt peonage, and is ultimately besides the point, because anthropogenic, greenhouse gases are a fraction of a percent, no matter how many resources I can leverage.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18956427 - 10/09/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The IPCC report is not a study.
You haven't read it, so you're talking out of your ass.
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)

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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Envix]
#18956599 - 10/09/13 09:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Envix said: C02 May not be harmful to the planet but it is harmful to our human bodies in large amounts in the environment
current levels in the atmosphere/environment are ~0.04%. it's gonna be a looooooooooooooooooooooong time until CO2 levels are harmful to anything.
-------------------- --------------------------------------------------- hmmm........
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Holy shit. I posted a forum midday out of curiousity. I come home, vape a bowl or two. Then I see that this thread has 6 pages!

I will read this over. I am glad that people on both sides are giving thier arguements. I never heard the other side of the story. Thanks to all!
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: topdog82]
#18956991 - 10/09/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: Holy shit. I posted a forum midday out of curiousity. I come home, vape a bowl or two. Then I see that this thread has 6 pages!

I will read this over. I am glad that people on both sides are giving thier arguements. I never heard the other side of the story. Thanks to all!
6 pages? You're still on default settings? What a noob, if you don't have at least 50 replys per page you ain't shit, lol.
But on a serious note, yeah this has been at the top of the first page all day.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Lynnch]
#18957184 - 10/09/13 11:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lynnch said: Therefore we should accept smog, acid rain, and oil spills in our oceans as just natural occurrences.
Who said that? Just because people don't believe in global warming doesn't mean they want the planet poisoned.
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Viveka
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal] 1
#18957832 - 10/10/13 03:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: It does exist, it's been proven 2 or 3 weeks ago. The earth is warming due to human activity and scientist are now 98% sure of it. It was a study made in collaboration of hundreds of scientist worldwide and confirmed by several hundreds more to see if the proper scientific method had been used. It was.
It used to be a 50/50 thing that was unproven so people could be either for or against. Now the evidence is overwhelming. I had to completely change my view on the environment 3 weeks ago, I was part of the clan that it was the natural cycle of things, but apparently it's not that.
As a brand new environmentalist, I have to adjust my behaviors and my views about everyday living. I now have to support ideas like carbon taxes and clean energy and stuff. Even if it costs billions.
Its kinda weird, its not a hippy bandwagon anymore, its proven scientific fact. I am a man of science.
This sounds like something one would read in the Onion. First, it sounds like it's coming from someone that does so little thinking on their own that they are immediately and completely swayed by any report, regardless of where it's from, so long as they can invoke the holy name of Science! And yes, that's what you and everyone else these days is doing with this "I am a man of science" nonsense. Blindly following authority is not science. The best you can honestly say is that you have not researched it, you don't know the first thing about it, and you really do not know. As if the IPCC suddenly took this stance 2 or 3 week ago, lol.
From the IPCC Fourth Assessmnet Report in 2007
"Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations."
Very likely and likely mean "the assessed likelihood, using expert judgment" are over 90% and over 66%, respectively.
From the IPCC Third Assessment Report in 2001:
"There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities"
The IPCC has always had the same agenda. It is not an executor of scientific method. As stated on its website, it does not conduct any research nor does it monitor climate related data or parameters.
The way "climate science" typically works is that anything that supports the claim, whatever it happens to be that day, is trumpeted and any data that is neutral or contradicts it is ignored because, after all, anyone with the position that the work they are doing is aimed to "stop" "climate change" has the moral high ground because their work aims to save all life on Earth and anyone who doesn't acquiesce utterly is a "denier", kinda like in the Inquisition. Worse, the sacred peer-review process, which is the foundation of the "integrity" of "climate science" is corrupt and "climate science" is ruining the legacy of scientific method and has created a new dogma that one could call Scientism, or more simply, "Science!".
Look at physics by comparison, a pure science, incorruptible by the kind of bullshit that has lead the climate discussion to where it is now.
There is no way to cleanly refute by experiment a claim like "It is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century". What the hell kind of claim is that anyway? The "95% Certain" thing is basically an estimate of congruity of judgement of all the different people involved of the soundness of the thousands or more different claims being made. The conclusion itself has nothing whatsoever to do with scientific method. The many facets of the experimental data comprised of timelines, computer models, CO2 levels, assertions of causality, etc, would all need to be judged on their own merits and once you start getting into that you see that it's all so convoluted and subject to various data integrity issues, incongruous info, bunk computer models, lapses in judgement and outright bias, not to mention the fact that 50 years is a nano-fraction of a blink of climate history, that it begins to look pretty foolish to walk into the middle of all this and just go, "The debate is settled" or some other nonsense that journalists, activist politicians and scientists, and infotainment consumers love to spout. The debate over what? What are we even talking about? CO2? It's never even been established empirically that this is anything more than correlation much less to what extent anthropogenic emissions are purported to have an impact.
The reality is nobody actually knows what the fuck is going on and anyone who thinks they know what is happening, in a dynamic system like Earth's climate, is full of shit at a certain point(guess that's the missing 5% huh?)
Yes, it's reasonable to presume that human activity is having an impact on Earth's climate. Why can't everyone just admit we don't really know the extent, much less what the ideal state of the climate is, given that such a static condition could or should ever by imposed on a constantly changing system, and start spending all this research money and mental energy on the only thing that's going to make a scintilla of difference to the whole equation - new tech. Even if all the carbon tax in the world were imposed tomorrow it wouldn't change what climate alarmists purport that it would. Or would it? We don't really know do we because correlation vs. causation with CO2 hasn't been empirically demonstrated, "climate science" is just banking on causation. So then the typical response to this is something to the effect of "Well, it's theoretically possible that we'll burn off the atmosphere by 2050 so just in case we'd better do X". But the world doesn't and can't work that way. There has to be a cost benefit analysis. Plus we have no idea how any policy scheme would actually work out, much less that it is operating on all the(assumed)correct principles.
And I'll say it again, only new and developing technology will bring about any significant difference in how the human organism powers it endeavors. And stop demonizing energy companies. Who do you think is going to develop the tech, the UN? Lol.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18958784 - 10/10/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The IPCC report is not a study.
You haven't read it, so you're talking out of your ass.
They don't do studies
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18958825 - 10/10/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The report is an assessment of MANY studies conducted by MANY scientists around the world.
You still have missed the point, however. You can't find a single national or international scientific body that is of the opinion that global warming is not due to human activities.
The best you can come up with is an odd scientist here or there that has some theory that has been widely rejected...along with your agenda-driven sources.
If you want to argue that climate change is due to natural cycles, that's fine...but you're in the extreme minority within the scientific community. Republicans tend to agree with you, of course, but almost every expert, republican, democrat, or other, doesn't.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18958850 - 10/10/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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As well as not performing the studies personally, they also say that they will not form an opinion, based on the studies.
You're telling us to read this compilation of data, in support of your opinion.
Again, I believe that global warming does exist, but on a 15-30 year cycle, and throughout the entire solar system.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18958857 - 10/10/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The report is an assessment of MANY studies conducted by MANY scientists around the world.
You still have missed the point, however. You can't find a single national or international scientific body that is of the opinion that global warming is not due to human activities.
The best you can come up with is an odd scientist here or there that has some theory that has been widely rejected...along with your agenda-driven sources.
If you want to argue that climate change is due to natural cycles, that's fine...but you're in the extreme minority within the scientific community. Republicans tend to agree with you, of course, but almost every expert, republican, democrat, or other, doesn't.
Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike/can't handle change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done. Scientist actually found that their ammygdala are bigger than average people. The amygdala is what processes fear and doubt.
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Edited by Patlal (10/10/13 11:23 AM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18958865 - 10/10/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The report is an assessment of MANY studies conducted by MANY scientists around the world.
That is the first correct thing you have said about it. It is a political paper and not a science paperQuote:
You still have missed the point, however. You can't find a single national or international scientific body that is of the opinion that global warming is not due to human activities.
I can find lots of scientists who do. International scientific bodies are political agencies. I don't care about their opinion, I want their proof before we go off half cocked ruining the West's economy.Quote:
The best you can come up with is an odd scientist here or there that has some theory that has been widely rejected...along with your agenda-driven sources.
There is not one single scientific study that establishes human activity as contributing to global warming or that global warming requires an explanation that is not normal natural variability. See Phil Jones, HAD CRUT tool, admitting that there were at least three other periods in recorded history that had similar increases to the one that ended 15 years ago.Quote:
If you want to argue that climate change is due to natural cycles, that's fine...but you're in the extreme minority within the scientific community. Republicans tend to agree with you, of course, but almost every expert, republican, democrat, or other, doesn't.
They gain money and recognition scaring people.
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dark3st
Stranger

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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
#18958867 - 10/10/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If global warming is real why not have China and India do some shit with all those billions of people and we have not nearly as much
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18958880 - 10/10/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Enlil said: The report is an assessment of MANY studies conducted by MANY scientists around the world.
You still have missed the point, however. You can't find a single national or international scientific body that is of the opinion that global warming is not due to human activities.
The best you can come up with is an odd scientist here or there that has some theory that has been widely rejected...along with your agenda-driven sources.
If you want to argue that climate change is due to natural cycles, that's fine...but you're in the extreme minority within the scientific community. Republicans tend to agree with you, of course, but almost every expert, republican, democrat, or other, doesn't.
Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Show me the proof and I'll go for it. Absent that it is ridiculous to effect the cure proposed. It is like ordering chemotherapy before you even diagnose cancer.
We need fusion or we are well and truly fucked anyway.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: dark3st]
#18958892 - 10/10/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The American, Sanger, founded abortion clinics. Our eugenics programs were praised by Hitler himself.
China and India both support sterilizations and abortion with incentives, or by force.
This brings up an important point, that conservation means rationing, and rationing means preference.
Environmentalism would necessarily result in eugenics.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18958895 - 10/10/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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Patlal said:
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Enlil said: The report is an assessment of MANY studies conducted by MANY scientists around the world.
You still have missed the point, however. You can't find a single national or international scientific body that is of the opinion that global warming is not due to human activities.
The best you can come up with is an odd scientist here or there that has some theory that has been widely rejected...along with your agenda-driven sources.
If you want to argue that climate change is due to natural cycles, that's fine...but you're in the extreme minority within the scientific community. Republicans tend to agree with you, of course, but almost every expert, republican, democrat, or other, doesn't.
Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Show me the proof and I'll go for it. Absent that it is ridiculous to effect the cure proposed. It is like ordering chemotherapy before you even diagnose cancer.
We need fusion or we are well and truly fucked anyway.
Well, when the world's top scientist realease a 2200 page paper that comes to the conclusion that it is 95% likely that humans are responsible for global warming, I tend to respect that and consider it as a fact. Who am I to argue the results of the world's top scientists?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal] 1
#18958897 - 10/10/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Pretty dumb statement.
The reason many don't buy into this shit based upon what we know now is because many of us not only pay attention to what both "sides" say, but we've lived through a great many "the sky is falling" crises which turned out to be a load of shit.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 4 hours, 32 minutes
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Pretty dumb statement.
The reason many don't buy into this shit based upon what we know now is because many of us not only pay attention to what both "sides" say, but we've lived through a great many "the sky is falling" crises which turned out to be a load of shit.
It's not gonna cause the end of the world. But it's going to create significant challenges in the future which could be lessened if we act now. It's always better to prevent that to react.
Both "sides". Right now side one has 95% and side 2 has 5%. And that's not a political opinion. It's scientific research
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dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: durian_2008]
#18958918 - 10/10/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: The American, Sanger, founded abortion clinics. Our eugenics programs were praised by Hitler himself.
China and India both support sterilizations and abortion with incentives, or by force.
This brings up an important point, that conservation means rationing, and rationing means preference.
Environmentalism would necessarily result in eugenics.
But China and India both have a billion + people. I'm seeing no progress from them other than placing backdoors in computers RAM and anywhere else they can mange. Fuck em
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Loc: Raccoon City
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The paper neither draws conclusions nor takes credit for the research. If you were to actually begin reading, you would have seen so many disclaimers, within the first ten pages.
As for change, what about the rolling stone which gathers no moss. Artists say there is a certain point, in which another brush stroke will destroy the masterpiece.
We say, if it's not broken, don't fix it, because the fix would usually be wasteful.
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dark3st
Stranger

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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18958937 - 10/10/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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"The sky is falling" reaction (IMO) is stuff like 2012, Y2K bullshit. Just as many believe in global warming (IME)
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Pretty dumb statement.
The reason many don't buy into this shit based upon what we know now is because many of us not only pay attention to what both "sides" say, but we've lived through a great many "the sky is falling" crises which turned out to be a load of shit.
It's not gonna cause the end of the world. But it's going to create significant challenges in the future which could be lessened if we act now. It's always better to prevent that to react.
Both "sides". Right now side one has 95% and side 2 has 5%. And that's not a political opinion. It's scientific research
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: dark3st]
#18958951 - 10/10/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I see that I've been talking informally, but which percentage of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere are manmade. Do any of the alarmists have a solid, and consequential figure, or do you mainly like to delegate.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18958959 - 10/10/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Periods of increased temperatures have somehow coincided with the periods of great advancement in human history. Isn't that amazing?
When you've personally queried all the worlds climate scientist you let me know. 95% might actually mean something then. While doing so remind yourself that the predictions of doom and gloom have fallen flat and that few, if any, of the climate models have even been close to accurate.
The MSM is on-board and the odds of hearing the dissenting voices are pretty slim. It's become a more religion than an actual religion.
But hey, let Mother Earth know that we have it all figured out. I'm sure she'll be delighted.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18958968 - 10/10/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
There is not one single scientific study that establishes human activity as contributing to global warming or that global warming requires an explanation that is not normal natural variability.
Not one you've read, of course...but there are many such studies:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.2337&rep=rep1&type=pdf "None of the natural processes can account for the overall warming trend in global surface temperatures. In the 100 years from 1905 to 2005, the temperature trends produce by all three natural influences are at least an order of magnitude smaller than the observed surface temperature trend reported by IPCC [2007]."
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?2000ESASP.463..201T&data_type=PDF_HIGH&whole_paper=YES&type=PRINTER&filetype=.pdf "our results strongly suggest that anthropogenic forcings have been the dominant cause of temperature changes over the last 30 to 50 years."
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/1520-0442%282004%29017%3C3721%3ACONAAF%3E2.0.CO%3B2 "The late-twentieth-century warming can only be reproduced in the model with anthropogenic forcing"
http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/improved-constraints-on-21st-century-warming-derived-using-160-years-of-temperature-observations.pdf "we detect a response to changes in greenhouse gases, aerosols and natural forcings in the full 1851–2010 instrumental temperature record, and find that greenhouse-gas-induced warming was significantly larger than the observed warming over the 1951–2000 period"
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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During all of that progress, figures for anthropogenic gases have fallen under one percentage point.
I don't use very much, personally, but the math doesn't justify me taking it from you.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Periods of increased temperatures have somehow coincided with the periods of great advancement in human history. Isn't that amazing?
When you've personally queried all the worlds climate scientist you let me know. 95% might actually mean something then. While doing so remind yourself that the predictions of doom and gloom have fallen flat and that few, if any, of the climate models have even been close to accurate.
The MSM is on-board and the odds of hearing the dissenting voices are pretty slim. It's become a more religion than an actual religion.
But hey, let Mother Earth know that we have it all figured out. I'm sure she'll be delighted.
It'll never be a 100% conclusion. We only have one sample in this research and it's planet Earth. If we had 10 planets to test on we could come to a 99.99% certainty.
I have believed in some coincidences before, but with doubt. I was on the side of the earth cycle opinion not too long ago. It made sense to me. There's probably a lot of that that affects the current results. But then again, we live in an aquarium of air and we've been burning copious amounts of oil and chemicals and releasing them in the atmosphere. That's on top of cutting down nature's lungs at a rapid rate. Something is bound to fuck up the balance.
Personally, when you take levels of CO2 and the temperatures of the planet over 1000000 years and compare them to the last 100 years which is when we started nurning all the crap and cutting trees. That's a 1/10000 chance. Its beyond coincidence
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dark3st
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18959003 - 10/10/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Or a 0.0000001—5% certainty
Hey maybe a -5690—0.0000005269042% and ice age's are more common.
I love to assume shit too
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
Edited by dark3st (10/10/13 11:53 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18959023 - 10/10/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here's how I see it (and it's not hard to find scientists that agree).
Yup, we've polluted the shit out of the planet.
Yup, we shouldn't have.
Yup, we should do our best to minimize our impact.
Yup, clean air and water should be our goal.
Nope, the end days are not upon us.
Nope, we should not make radical changes based upon what we know at this time regarding "climate change".
We just don't know. Perhaps had the climate models not been so far off you'd find more willing to join your religion. As it stands now, "the sky is falling" is an accurate assessment of the hysteria.
It's more likely that humans will be wiped out by the flu or an asteroid then that mankind will suffer great consequences from climate change.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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mpd
Lammen Gorthaur



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tl;dr the thread. Global warming is like affirmative action, you know you are getting scammed and you hang with it anyway because that is where there are people who are willing to accept all arriving freaks and geeks. Believing it requires one to abhor logic and actual science instead. This makes it an ideal cause celeb for liberals.
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: mpd]
#18959121 - 10/10/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Here's how I see it (and it's not hard to find scientists that agree).
Yup, we've polluted the shit out of the planet.
Yup, we shouldn't have.
Yup, we should do our best to minimize our impact.
Yup, clean air and water should be our goal.
Nope, the end days are not upon us.
Nope, we should not make radical changes based upon what we know at this time regarding "climate change".
The scientific community doesn't agree on what the result will be of global warming. I haven't seen any scientist claim that it will result in the extinction of the human race or even a serious reduction in population.
Still, nearly every expert agrees that human activity is a major cause of it. That's all I'm arguing here.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18959411 - 10/10/13 01:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Don't argue with him. Conservative such as Zap dislike change. They would rather be at the status quo so that they aren't moved out of their comfort zone. They believe that everything they learned at 20 years old is going to be the absolute truth until they die, therefore they will reject any forms of change or anything that goes against what they think is right. This kind of mentality is what is constantly holding the world back because most elected officials are older. They live 30 to 50 years in the past.
Nothing can be done
Pretty dumb statement.
The reason many don't buy into this shit based upon what we know now is because many of us not only pay attention to what both "sides" say, but we've lived through a great many "the sky is falling" crises which turned out to be a load of shit.
It's not gonna cause the end of the world. But it's going to create significant challenges in the future which could be lessened if we act now. It's always better to prevent that to react.
Fact not in evidence. When did you start accepting whatever authorities say? Show me the proof.Quote:
Both "sides". Right now side one has 95% and side 2 has 5%. And that's not a political opinion. It's scientific research
2/3rds of the IPCC are not scientists, they are politicians. Not just any politicians but politicians for the most part from shit countries who would exempt themselves from being hamstrung. And if you don't hew the line as a scientist they kick you off the panel. Please find me ONE scientist who says he has a peer reviewed and replicated study that proves a strictly human activity caused rise in planetary temperature, which rise has been non-existent for 15 years contra all these ersatz scientists who think modeling is proof even when the models don't work.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18959441 - 10/10/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
There is not one single scientific study that establishes human activity as contributing to global warming or that global warming requires an explanation that is not normal natural variability.
Not one you've read, of course...but there are many such studies:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.2337&rep=rep1&type=pdf "None of the natural processes can account for the overall warming trend in global surface temperatures. In the 100 years from 1905 to 2005, the temperature trends produce by all three natural influences are at least an order of magnitude smaller than the observed surface temperature trend reported by IPCC [2007]."
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?2000ESASP.463..201T&data_type=PDF_HIGH&whole_paper=YES&type=PRINTER&filetype=.pdf "our results strongly suggest that anthropogenic forcings have been the dominant cause of temperature changes over the last 30 to 50 years."
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/1520-0442%282004%29017%3C3721%3ACONAAF%3E2.0.CO%3B2 "The late-twentieth-century warming can only be reproduced in the model with anthropogenic forcing"
http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/improved-constraints-on-21st-century-warming-derived-using-160-years-of-temperature-observations.pdf "we detect a response to changes in greenhouse gases, aerosols and natural forcings in the full 1851–2010 instrumental temperature record, and find that greenhouse-gas-induced warming was significantly larger than the observed warming over the 1951–2000 period"
Not one of those meets the criteria I established. This sloppiness supports my assertion that you don't know shit about what science is.
1. Both natural and anthropogenic influences caused twentieth century climate change but their relative roles and regional impacts are still under debate.
2. our results strongly suggest
3. in the model
4. Projections of 21st century warming may be derived by using regression-based methods to scale a model
Models are not science. For the last 15 years for sure and I believe going back forever the fucking models do not work. "Strongly suggesting" is not proof. "Still under debate" kind of kicks the consensus argument to the curb, does it not?
You have done a better job of making my case than your own. Thanks
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Posts: 81,741
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18959455 - 10/10/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Here's how I see it (and it's not hard to find scientists that agree).
Yup, we've polluted the shit out of the planet.
Yup, we shouldn't have.
Yup, we should do our best to minimize our impact.
Yup, clean air and water should be our goal.
Nope, the end days are not upon us.
Nope, we should not make radical changes based upon what we know at this time regarding "climate change".
The scientific community doesn't agree on what the result will be of global warming. I haven't seen any scientist claim that it will result in the extinction of the human race or even a serious reduction in population.
Still, nearly every expert agrees that human activity is a major cause of it. That's all I'm arguing here.
Not according to your links. You are clearly a complete dilettante in this matter.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18959680 - 10/10/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I love how you move the goalposts. First, you said:
Quote:
There is not one single scientific study that establishes human activity as contributing to global warming
Now, when I've shown you studies that established just that, you say:
Quote:
Both natural and anthropogenic influences caused twentieth century climate change but their relative roles and regional impacts are still under debate
As I've said all along, human activity is partially to blame...you now admit that. It took you 8 pages, but you've finally admitted it.
Even an old dude like you can use reason from time to time...kudos.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18959845 - 10/10/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Zappa, 97% of climate scientists agree that human activity is responsible for global warming. Source. So, on one side, there's 97% of the experts, and on the other side, there is 3% and YOU...raging for what you desperately hope is the truth.
As I've said time and again, I am no expert, and neither are you. Simply put, when 97% of the experts agree on something...anything...that's a strong indicator that they're right.
I'm going with the 97% on this one...you're free to deny to your grave, though.
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chutney
slappin' the whiners
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18959920 - 10/10/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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lulz at how zappaisgod fronts like he's smarter than any of the hundreds (if not thousands) of climate scientists who've spent their entire lives studying this at great length in academia... but hey let's listen to the "expert" who spends his days and free time on the shroomery
Good laughs though, thanks
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18960253 - 10/10/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
There is not one single scientific study that establishes human activity as contributing to global warming or that global warming requires an explanation that is not normal natural variability.
Not one you've read, of course...but there are many such studies:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.2337&rep=rep1&type=pdf "None of the natural processes can account for the overall warming trend in global surface temperatures. In the 100 years from 1905 to 2005, the temperature trends produce by all three natural influences are at least an order of magnitude smaller than the observed surface temperature trend reported by IPCC [2007]."
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?2000ESASP.463..201T&data_type=PDF_HIGH&whole_paper=YES&type=PRINTER&filetype=.pdf "our results strongly suggest that anthropogenic forcings have been the dominant cause of temperature changes over the last 30 to 50 years."
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/1520-0442%282004%29017%3C3721%3ACONAAF%3E2.0.CO%3B2 "The late-twentieth-century warming can only be reproduced in the model with anthropogenic forcing"
http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/improved-constraints-on-21st-century-warming-derived-using-160-years-of-temperature-observations.pdf "we detect a response to changes in greenhouse gases, aerosols and natural forcings in the full 1851–2010 instrumental temperature record, and find that greenhouse-gas-induced warming was significantly larger than the observed warming over the 1951–2000 period"
Not one of those meets the criteria I established. This sloppiness supports my assertion that you don't know shit about what science is.
1. Both natural and anthropogenic influences caused twentieth century climate change but their relative roles and regional impacts are still under debate.
2. our results strongly suggest
3. in the model
4. Projections of 21st century warming may be derived by using regression-based methods to scale a model
Models are not science. For the last 15 years for sure and I believe going back forever the fucking models do not work. "Strongly suggesting" is not proof. "Still under debate" kind of kicks the consensus argument to the curb, does it not?
You have done a better job of making my case than your own. Thanks
no matter how many times, they'll still come back with, but the scientists agree!1 even though they can't state why it's such a big deal as to be arguing for the fact that they know scientists agree, about climate change, when there is nothing else to discuss, anyway.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960263 - 10/10/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I love how you move the goalposts. First, you said:
Quote:
There is not one single scientific study that establishes human activity as contributing to global warming
There isn't and you haven't posted one. Quote:
Now, when I've shown you studies that established just that, you say:
Quote:
Both natural and anthropogenic influences caused twentieth century climate change but their relative roles and regional impacts are still under debate
As I've said all along, human activity is partially to blame...you now admit that. It took you 8 pages, but you've finally admitted it.
Even an old dude like you can use reason from time to time...kudos.
You have not posted one single study that establishes human activity is causing warming that mayor may not exist. Do you really not know what the word "establish" means? Everything you posted was full of caveats or models. Where is the study, real science, that establishes human caused warming?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960290 - 10/10/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Zappa, 97% of climate scientists agree that human activity is responsible for global warming. Source. So, on one side, there's 97% of the experts, and on the other side, there is 3% and YOU...raging for what you desperately hope is the truth.
As I've said time and again, I am no expert, and neither are you. Simply put, when 97% of the experts agree on something...anything...that's a strong indicator that they're right.
I'm going with the 97% on this one...you're free to deny to your grave, though.
Once again you and they have failed to come close to prove your contention. They have been trying oh so hard and still can't do it. Their predictions don't pan out. Do you know what science that can't predict is? Bullshit. The real world says your heroes are fucking morons, at best. The alternative is that they are fund seeking liars. Either way, they are 
Do or do not. There is no try in science.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18960349 - 10/10/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You seem to misunderstand what science is. Science can rarely give us a 100% positive answer to any question. That's not really how it works. That's why we have theories like evolution that will likely always remain theories despite the fact that they are universally accepted as true.
You can pretend to know what you're talking about, but you clearly don't. Computer models are routinely used in science, and the fact that you reject them out of hand just means that you're living in the 60's when you went to college.
You're free to reject the conclusions of nearly every expert in the field. At this point, however, you're just starting to sound like another who thinks he's got the inside track on what's really happening while all of the sheeple are falling for the "official story."
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akira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960374 - 10/10/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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he's not saying that he doesn't agree with what you're saying, he's asking you to provide an example of a reason why anyone should have cause for concern... or whether or not anyone can bring anything else to the table here other then an argument for how scientists "now believe climate change is caused by humans"; when that conclusion provides nothing. nothing, at least, but more questions.
those questions, by the way, which seemingly cannot be answered. that's what's annoying and stupid.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#18960389 - 10/10/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Experts, that is; people with graduate degrees in climate science and published research papers agree that manmade climate change exists, to the tune of 95%.
Thats about the same as doctors who agree smoking cigarettes cause cancer.
On the other hand, its probably just another global conspiracy perpetrated by the liberal education system, through the liberal science community, via the liberal media.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18960395 - 10/10/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not concerned in the least about global warming. It's undoubtedly caused by humans, but who cares? Whatever is going to happen is inevitable. These facts are not going to change:
1. We will burn every drop of oil that we can find and extract from the planet 2. We will burn every ton of coal that we can find and extract
Any discussion about what we "should" do is irrelevant simply because the above facts are not going to change.
As a result of the above, it really doesn't matter what the effects of global warming will be, since there's nothing we can do to avoid them. Maybe some coastlines will change, but it's no skin off my dick since I won't be living at 20 ft MSL.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#18960401 - 10/10/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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what's liberal, is the liberal use of a newly found tidbit of only slightly relevant information to substantiate a cause for berating and being blind to the fact that said tidbit doesn't really answer to, or solve any real problems.

Quote:
Enlil said: I'm not concerned in the least about global warming. It's undoubtedly caused by humans, but who cares? Whatever is going to happen is inevitable. These facts are not going to change:
1. We will burn every drop of oil that we can find and extract from the planet 2. We will burn every ton of coal that we can find and extract
Any discussion about what we "should" do is irrelevant simply because the above facts are not going to change.
As a result of the above, it really doesn't matter what the effects of global warming will be, since there's nothing we can do to avoid them. Maybe some coastlines will change, but it's no skin off my dick since I won't be living at 20 ft MSL.
i'm pretty sure this is all Zappa's point is. that nothing is going to change as of yet, so what's the point aimlessly blithering about the subject?
i think, anyway... that would be my main point of contention here.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18960409 - 10/10/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Apparently being liberal is substantial evidence contradicting the conservative dogma.
Sorta like evolution.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960413 - 10/10/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You seem to misunderstand what science is. Science can rarely give us a 100% positive answer to any question. That's not really how it works. That's why we have theories like evolution that will likely always remain theories despite the fact that they are universally accepted as true.
You can pretend to know what you're talking about, but you clearly don't. Computer models are routinely used in science, and the fact that you reject them out of hand just means that you're living in the 60's when you went to college.
You're free to reject the conclusions of nearly every expert in the field. At this point, however, you're just starting to sound like another who thinks he's got the inside track on what's really happening while all of the sheeple are falling for the "official story."
You haven't produced one single study that establishes human generated global warming to within statistical significance. Do you know why you haven't? Because there isn't one. And you have the unmitigated gall to tell me I don't know how science works? I reject computer models that fail to predict. The globullshit climate models have been woefully inadequate in the prediction realm. That is all of what science is about, Predicting. For instance I can predict, thanks to science, that when I flip a light switch the light will go on. If it doesn't, science tells me there is something wrong in the circuit and this is always correct. It is never because the model of electromagnetic field theory is wrong. Climate modelers need to scrap their models because they do not predict accurately. That is a fact, not an interpretation..
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18960424 - 10/10/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Zappa: Science is all about predicting.
Think you just disqualified yourself from any credible retort.
Example: The same percentage of doctors/scientists believe smoking cigs causes cancer. You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#18960426 - 10/10/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Apparently being liberal is substantial evidence contradicting the conservative dogma.
Sorta like evolution.
Denying evolution is not a feature of conservatism.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18960434 - 10/10/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dear god...
Zap: Do you have any idea how stupid you sound like in this thread??? This is borderline reddit material...
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18960444 - 10/10/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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only this thread?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#18960449 - 10/10/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Example: The same percentage of doctors/scientists believe smoking cigs causes cancer. You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.
um, why not, exactly? scientist's beliefs dictate other's beliefs? unless the fact is proof, then what can't people do with it?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#18960452 - 10/10/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.
Dude, my dad smoked for 60 years, and he didn't get cancer, so those doctors are wrong. It's just that simple. IT'S NOT SCIENCE!
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: akira_akuma]
#18960458 - 10/10/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Example: The same percentage of doctors/scientists believe smoking cigs causes cancer. You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.
um, why not, exactly? scientist's beliefs dictate other's beliefs? unless the fact is proof, then what can't people do with it?
The point is that they aren't beliefs, they're facts.
If you wanna deny the reality of carcinogens (or gravity), light up a smoke and go jump off a cliff.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Patlal]
#18960463 - 10/10/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Dear god...
Zap: Do you have any idea how stupid you sound like in this thread??? This is borderline reddit material...
Show me the study that establishes AGW. Evolution denial is not, sad to say for the liberals, a feature of conservatism. It certainly isn't a feature of my conservatism.
I am dead serious. There are several of you here babbling about AGW. Fucking prove it. There have been scientists trying to do it for decades. None of them have. If one of them has let's see it. I'm wide open. Show me.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18960470 - 10/10/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I'm wide open.
Clearly.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960475 - 10/10/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah, you nor anyone else can give an explanation about specificity of what goes into creating a particular cancer, and understand rates of specific cancers in the population, to give an explanation of what specific causes there are and in what rates of exposure to carcinogens there are and where, and what exactly they are, altogether.
certain science doesn't provide a complete "truth". it can provide a picture, and people will often distort their views in order to fit into that picture. doesn't make it right.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960476 - 10/10/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.
Dude, my dad smoked for 60 years, and he didn't get cancer, so those doctors are wrong. It's just that simple. IT'S NOT SCIENCE!
Sadly, this is how people think. People who value (irrelevant) personal experience over empirical evidence.
The same type of people who get lucky with their careers, then deem all people less wealthy than them lazy.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#18960492 - 10/10/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Example: The same percentage of doctors/scientists believe smoking cigs causes cancer. You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.
um, why not, exactly? scientist's beliefs dictate other's beliefs? unless the fact is proof, then what can't people do with it?
The point is that they aren't beliefs, they're facts.
If you wanna deny the reality of carcinogens (or gravity), light up a smoke and go jump off a cliff.
what? no one is debating that. they are facts. but it is incomplete information to state what, if anything, is the cause FOR CONCERN, after becoming aware of the current models relevance; which is slim to none.
some poignant questions have been posed... like since there have concurrent "climate warmth" during other periods of human civilization, too. what can account for those?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960494 - 10/10/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: You don't get to dispute that claim just because they couldn't build a computer model predicting WHEN you'll get cancer.
Dude, my dad smoked for 60 years, and he didn't get cancer, so those doctors are wrong. It's just that simple. IT'S NOT SCIENCE!
There are studies that establish more than a correlation but a causation to cancer due to smoking. Would you care to produce one that does the same for AGW? Take your time. I probably have a few years left.
Did you know that ice core data tend to suggest that CO2 rise follows global temperature rise
Quote:
There is, however, still a degree of uncertainty about which came first—a spike in temperature or CO2. Until now, the most comprehensive records to date on a major change in Earth’s climate came from the EPICA Dome C ice core on the Antarctic Plateau. The data, covering the end of the last ice age, between 20,000 and 10,000 years ago, show that CO2 levels could have lagged behind rising global temperatures by as much as 1,400 years. “The idea that there was a lag of CO2 behind temperature is something climate change skeptics pick on,” says Edward Brook of Oregon State University’s College of Earth, Ocean and Atmospheric Sciences. “They say, ‘How could CO2 levels affect global temperature when you are telling me the temperature changed first?’”
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18960529 - 10/10/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not going to produce anything else, zappa, because you'll just miss the overall point. That point being:
YOU ARE NOT AN EXPERT AND ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO CRITIQUE OR INTERPRET THE RESULTS OF OTHER SCIENTISTS.
That's the point. You've chosen your belief, and you've found a few experts that agree. The rest of the experts disagree, but you simply reject them out of hand as if you have the first fucking clue what you're talking about. You don't. You don't know jack shit about any of it, but because you took a few classes in college, you think you're qualified to critique the work of scientists.
Scientists routinely look at each other's work critically...and in the case of AGW, the vast majority agree that global warming is caused by human activity.
I hate relying on the expertise of others, but that's all we have here. You can play expert all you want in this thread, but you really don't know shit about it. I don't either. The only difference between us is that I have chosen to trust the 97% instead of the 3%.
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Yogi1
Squatchin
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: topdog82]
#18960662 - 10/10/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: So i have met probably 4 conservatives my entire life.
Lucky fuck.
I dont believe its co2 and its somehow special to our time. I am not a conservative either.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960669 - 10/10/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: 1. We will burn every drop of oil that we can find and extract from the planet
Except for what we make into plastics and ultimately bury in landfills, locking up the carbon safely underground again in a stable form.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: psi]
#18960694 - 10/10/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
Enlil said: 1. We will burn every drop of oil that we can find and extract from the planet
Except for what we make into plastics and ultimately bury in landfills, locking up the carbon safely underground again in a stable form. 
I'm curious what the ratio is. But not curious enough to google it myself
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: psi]
#18960698 - 10/10/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's certainly true. That's why I'm all for plastic cups, bottles, etc.
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Yogi1
Squatchin
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: psi]
#18960707 - 10/10/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
Enlil said: 1. We will burn every drop of oil that we can find and extract from the planet
Except for what we make into plastics and ultimately bury in landfills, locking up the carbon safely underground again in a stable form. 
For now. Definitely if a bunch of tires, plastics etc submerge into the earth and cook for a while it only takes an earth quake etc to release the carbon. I know there's a shit ton undersea that occasionally gets broken into and released via natural processes.
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Yogi1
Squatchin
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960716 - 10/10/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That's certainly true. That's why I'm all for plastic cups, bottles, etc.
Not like its going to slow the consumption post peak oil to stop with the plastics rubbers etc. Noones going to care till we're dropping bombs and rioting over hundred year old outdated fuel.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Yogi1]
#18960725 - 10/10/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's a moot point anyway. At most, we've got 2-3 weeks before were out of oil. Coal will last a bit longer, but no more than another 4 months tops.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960738 - 10/10/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I'm not going to produce anything else, zappa, because you'll just miss the overall point. That point being:
YOU ARE NOT AN EXPERT AND ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO CRITIQUE OR INTERPRET THE RESULTS OF OTHER SCIENTISTS.
I don't have to. They don't make the claims of proof you say they do. Because some of them have some shred of honesty, counselor.Quote:
That's the point. You've chosen your belief, and you've found a few experts that agree. The rest of the experts disagree, but you simply reject them out of hand as if you have the first fucking clue what you're talking about. You don't. You don't know jack shit about any of it, but because you took a few classes in college, you think you're qualified to critique the work of scientists.
You can't find one single expert who says he can prove it. Not one.Quote:
Scientists routinely look at each other's work critically...and in the case of AGW, the vast majority agree that global warming is caused by human activity.
Google "hide the decline" and then get back to me about why I don't trust them.Quote:
I hate relying on the expertise of others, but that's all we have here. You can play expert all you want in this thread, but you really don't know shit about it. I don't either. The only difference between us is that I have chosen to trust the 97% instead of the 3%.
Your numbers *(97-3 Even Phil Jones says it aint so) are crap and you admit ignorance and blind acceptance of authorities who stand to profit. The fact is that they have tried for nigh unto two decades, at least, to prove this and they have failed. You can suck credential cock but I won't.
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Champion des Champignons
long standing member;)

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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960753 - 10/10/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: It's a moot point anyway. At most, we've got 2-3 weeks before were out of oil. Coal will last a bit longer, but no more than another 4 months tops.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
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Yogi1
Squatchin
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18960782 - 10/10/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: It's a moot point anyway. At most, we've got 2-3 weeks before were out of oil. Coal will last a bit longer, but no more than another 4 months tops.
I dont get the sarcastic tease, really. maybe youre a jaded old fogie but I am really concerned about what happens a couple generations down the line when the most efficient abundant fuel source in history is gone. Oil is single handedly responsible for the mass evolution of the last hundred years and is not at all being replaced in the infrastructure of the future.
Kind of a big deal when you think about the mass destruction that might come when Saudi's are hoarding their supply (for good reason) and everywhere else is dried up.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Yogi1]
#18960790 - 10/10/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I won't be alive by then, and I think good things will come from the dearth of cheap energy. Population growth is out of control, and hopefully, the scarcity of oil will start to depopulate the planet a bit.
In any case, I won't be here, and no one I know will either.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18961023 - 10/10/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I won't be alive by then, and I think good things will come from the dearth of cheap energy. Population growth is out of control, and hopefully, the scarcity of oil will start to depopulate the planet a bit.
In any case, I won't be here, and no one I know will either.
Well that is wonderfully selfish. Now I don't particularly disagree with your sentiment that the whole place can go to hell after I'm dead, after all, I am the pinnacle of human existence and all who come after are pale shades of me, but that does not mean I shy from the wonderfully fun exercise of "how will people go on without me?" Consider it a game show.
I can assure you that the only thing that will come from the absence of cheap energy is chaos, wrack and ruin. It is the most important determiner of the human condition. It is the source of all luxury and leisure and is what allows both of us the wherewithal to pontificate to an audience that not long ago could only be reached at great expense. Cheap energy is the sine qua non of civilization.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18961145 - 10/10/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I can assure you that the only thing that will come from the absence of cheap energy is chaos, wrack and ruin.
All good things in my book...particularly so if I'm dead at that time.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18961199 - 10/10/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I can assure you that the only thing that will come from the absence of cheap energy is chaos, wrack and ruin.
All good things in my book...particularly so if I'm dead at that time.
Wouldn't you rather be around to watch? I would.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18961206 - 10/10/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'd be okay...at least until I got really old. I've got enough solar to pretty much keep my home comfortable. Getting food would be a bit more challenging, though.
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18962636 - 10/11/13 05:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not if you eat the neighbors.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Enlil
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That's kinda what I meant by "a bit more challenging."
They're likely to put up more of a struggle than the beef tenderloin at Shop Rite.
It just means I have to work harder to eat. No biggie, really, since I'll have a lot of extra time since I won't have to work.
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18962685 - 10/11/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You likely already know this but the young ones are the more tender and tasty. The really young ones have trouble moving fast enough to get away.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Enlil
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The really young ones will be very scarce. If things are going well, procreation will be curbed dramatically.
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Yogi1
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18963296 - 10/11/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Normally I would join in on this gourmet fillet of cynicism but jesus christ i have been out done.
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dark3st
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Yogi1]
#18963382 - 10/11/13 10:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Anyone remember or heard of the broadcasting of "war of the worlds"
Most of us will get end of the world syndrome so badly when they(probably me included) will panic so badly when the news reports we are out of fuel and have only weeks (days maybe) of power left that it will be hell on earth.
This is why we must invest in fusion technology.
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: dark3st]
#18963454 - 10/11/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oil will run out before coal and natural gas, so you will still have electricity for a good while. What you wont have is fuel to power cars, trucks or planes. That will have a huge impact. Additionally, you won't have fuel to run farm machinery to produce food.
So less food will be grown, and none of it can get to market. Information is about the only thing that will be able to travel long distances, and only until the infrastructure starts to break down and there is no fuel for the trucks to get out to fix it.
If, by some miracle, electric vehicles become practical by that time, maybe you can hold on for a bit longer, but with that much more load on the electrical power generation, you're going to burn through the coal much, much faster.
On second thought, scratch what I said above. There will be no vehicles to take the coal to the coal fired plants. They'll shut down too.
Yep...you're fucked.
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dark3st
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18963532 - 10/11/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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All while were dead by then.
What's wrong with nuclear power and fusion)
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: dark3st]
#18963577 - 10/11/13 11:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nuclear fission alone can't replace fossil fuel. Fusion could if they could get it to work, but we're probably decades away from a working reactor, and another decade or two before we can build them for commercial use.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18963590 - 10/11/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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solar/wind should be able to sluggishly bridge the gap between fossil fuels and fusion reactors.
Or we could just stop being pussies and build nuclear plants again.
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topdog82
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#18963594 - 10/11/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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What about cold fusion? Is that a possbility at all? Or has that been dubunked? It doesnt look like a hoax at all?
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dark3st
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: topdog82]
#18963610 - 10/11/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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They also have to trust the people with the nuclear reactors as well.
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18963687 - 10/11/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Oil will run out before coal and natural gas, so you will still have electricity for a good while. What you wont have is fuel to power cars, trucks or planes. That will have a huge impact. Additionally, you won't have fuel to run farm machinery to produce food.
So less food will be grown, and none of it can get to market. Information is about the only thing that will be able to travel long distances, and only until the infrastructure starts to break down and there is no fuel for the trucks to get out to fix it.
If, by some miracle, electric vehicles become practical by that time, maybe you can hold on for a bit longer, but with that much more load on the electrical power generation, you're going to burn through the coal much, much faster.
On second thought, scratch what I said above. There will be no vehicles to take the coal to the coal fired plants. They'll shut down too.
Yep...you're fucked.
We can make oil from coal and we can run cars on gas.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18963699 - 10/11/13 12:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Nuclear fission alone can't replace fossil fuel. Fusion could if they could get it to work, but we're probably decades away from a working reactor, and another decade or two before we can build them for commercial use.
Fission is problematic for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that it is also finite.
We have a few decades to get fusion and I think we could do it if we got dedicated enough. The problem is we are wasting billions of dollars on inadequate stopgaps and nor concentrating on what is the ONLY long range solution.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: topdog82]
#18963709 - 10/11/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: What about cold fusion? Is that a possbility at all? Or has that been dubunked? It doesnt look like a hoax at all?
Total crap. Fleishman and Pons are a disgrace. I didn't even have to look up their names I remember it so well.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18963725 - 10/11/13 12:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's not going to be able to produce the quantities that would be needed. You could make enough for certain critical needs, but it uses a lot of coal and it isn't a very efficient process. It would just mean running out of coal far sooner than we would.
It could buy us a few decades though, if we're on the verge of fusion or some other energy source.
It would also require a huge infrastructure of coal liquefaction plants to produce even enough to fuel trucking and essential services. These plants would be expensive to build and would become largely obsolete in a relatively short time. That would make the price of the fuel very high.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18963731 - 10/11/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: We have a few decades to get fusion and I think we could do it if we got dedicated enough. The problem is we are wasting billions of dollars on inadequate stopgaps and nor concentrating on what is the ONLY long range solution.
Fission reactors can't solve the problems alone, though. In order for fission reactors to replace fossil fuels, we're going to need to develop an electrical storage system that is light and practical enough to give adequate range at a reasonable cost. At this point, batteries are not enough for medium range cars, and they aren't even close to light enough for an electric passenger plane to be feasible.
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psi
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18964489 - 10/11/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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A severe energy shortage would force much lighter vehicles. The current situation is that cars must be overbuilt in order for its occupants to stand any chance of surviving a collision with the much heavier vehicles they must share the road with. Otherwise there is no real need to transport a single 150-200 lb human in a vehicle weighing thousands of pounds. Cutting down weight would reduce the amount of energy needed to get up to speed (some of which gets wasted in braking even with regenerative systems) or to climb hills, and cutting down the size and surface area would reduce drag losses.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: psi]
#18964584 - 10/11/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll keep driving an H1. Screw the environment...I'll get my use out of it.
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psi
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18964873 - 10/11/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Perhaps you will, but once fuel gets expensive enough fewer people will be able to afford to drive much in big heavy vehicles.
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: psi]
#18964878 - 10/11/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll just convert it to electric motors, anyway.
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psi
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18964897 - 10/11/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's not as much fun. You should put in a big old steam engine and fuel it with old growth redwoods or baby pandas or something.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: Enlil]
#18965372 - 10/11/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: We have a few decades to get fusion and I think we could do it if we got dedicated enough. The problem is we are wasting billions of dollars on inadequate stopgaps and nor concentrating on what is the ONLY long range solution.
Fission reactors can't solve the problems alone, though. In order for fission reactors to replace fossil fuels, we're going to need to develop an electrical storage system that is light and practical enough to give adequate range at a reasonable cost. At this point, batteries are not enough for medium range cars, and they aren't even close to light enough for an electric passenger plane to be feasible.
I said fusion. I already acknowledged that fission is problematic.
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ClockCode
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18965413 - 10/11/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The two most miserable people in the site debating something they know nothing about, this was a great read.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: ClockCode]
#18965476 - 10/11/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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ORLY?
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Enlil
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Re: Global warming doesn't exist? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18973187 - 10/13/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: We have a few decades to get fusion and I think we could do it if we got dedicated enough. The problem is we are wasting billions of dollars on inadequate stopgaps and nor concentrating on what is the ONLY long range solution.
Fission reactors can't solve the problems alone, though. In order for fission reactors to replace fossil fuels, we're going to need to develop an electrical storage system that is light and practical enough to give adequate range at a reasonable cost. At this point, batteries are not enough for medium range cars, and they aren't even close to light enough for an electric passenger plane to be feasible.
I said fusion. I already acknowledged that fission is problematic.
Fusion or fission, the same problem exists. Unless we find a way to store electricity, neither can replace fossil fuels to power cars, trains and planes.
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