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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Mind Control [Re: cez]
    #18952928 - 10/09/13 05:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

And having a soul cannot allow one to be in the moment?

Perhaps it is precisely in the moment when we are most connected to the soul. There are mechanical, animalistic sides to us; sure, they evolved with us. When the going gets tough, the tough get going; we have needed this part of ourselves to survive. But for some reason or other we developed the ability to feel and question much more deeply than other animals of Earth, to be able to see that animal in each of us and feel guilt (or empowerment) when we resort to it. Man loves to control things, especially each other, and perhaps on some level Man loves to be controlled.. Perhaps as a way to deal with uncertainty.

Alphas over betas, betas over betas to reach alpha..this is the animal nature of Man, something we share with most animals. If the game is realized for what it is, one can rise above beta and alpha behaviours, no longer be controlled by them. This is unique to Man. We time travel in our minds and due to our analytical nature can realize mistakes made in the past and occasionally correct them in the future. Our memory and projections are unique to us as well. :thumbup:

Our very own intelligence is the cause of all suffering, all suffering the cause for more suffering. The only way to get out of this is to realize, truthfully, the cause of suffering and stop being apart of it. Take control of the mind; of that intelligence. Quit playing the primate game of who's better by having complete comfort in your own skin. That is empowerment and whatever it takes to realize complete comfort in ones skin is empowerment.

You say the soul offers hope..what about fear? :shocked:

Fear of karma, fear of reincarnation, of judgment. The true believers, the real religious, are typically God-fearing instead of God-loving.

Some love out of fear instead of gratitude for existence. Fear-based love is slavery. Love based love is freedom.

One judges out of fear of being judged, and in doing so judges the very qualities they so deny in themselves, creating a subconscious separation from their fellow man and from themselves; contributing to the whole of suffering. 

One embraces out of love and in doing so accepts the human as a whole, feels a connection with typical human behaviors seeing themselves in all, is able to see more easily the cause of suffering; allowing one to operate outside of suffering and create a space to ease others from their suffering instead of contributing to it. 

So I feel, with anything that we do, its important to realize where ones heart is. :wink:


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zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Mind Control [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18952953 - 10/09/13 06:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

hTx said:

It is completely self-evident that religion and spirituality can ennoble any human of any class, most notably and most easily, the most numerous. The poor.
Religious institutions have helped many 'find themselves' and continues to do so. Religion remains popular after 10,000 years or so because of this very ennobling factor (many other factors as well). It gives man reason to believe in himself.
If man is reduced to a mechanism without any individuality..where does that leave man?

A mechanism. Without any individuality.




That sounds like a lump of assumptions to me, compared to the historical facts concerning religion's oppression of humanity. Is anyone tortured and killed for not 'finding themselves'? They're oppressed for reaching beyond the glass ceiling religion sets over them



I agree, and if you notice I didn't say religion was good for all, but that it did and has helped many, namely the individual looking for help (the poor).

Madness is rare in the individual. It seems to take the concentrated madness of the many for it to manifest itself into the horrors we have seen from religious conquests and inquisitions. But this is true in all large groups; organizations, parties, and nations, not just religious ones.

Just look at what's going on presently.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18953001 - 10/09/13 06:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

We cannot blame religion for mans faults.

It seems most religious texts I have read may have many interpretations, but the true purpose for them is to free the individual from themselves by introducing the idea that we are more than ourselves (or not ourselves at all). This is naturally disturbing to any power at be who would want the masses to stay beta and thus easily controlled...so it makes sense that religion was, at various points in history, quite oppressive; in doing so those in the hierarchy could establish and flex their power.

Claiming different interpretations and religions as 'the true and only way' and killing over it... never realizing the irony that nearly all religious texts instruct us to love one another.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx] * 1
    #18953051 - 10/09/13 07:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

but the true purpose for them is to free the individual from themselves by introducing the idea that we are more than ourselves

I don't see how you know the "true purpose" of religion.  I think it has possibly many purposes and they are all true.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/09/13 07:02 AM)


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18954410 - 10/09/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
We cannot blame religion for mans faults.




Well I'll agree at least that with religion gone, mankind would be little better "morally" speaking.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Mind Control [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18954575 - 10/09/13 02:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What would replace the church (religion) if this were the case? Are you saying that their should be no religion whatsoever, no spirituality, based on a few minor mistakes in the past?
Are you calling for abolition of spirituality and religion; claiming that this would be better for all-mankind?
How exactly would we be better 'morally' speaking, it seems this would be the opposite. But i dunno i'm a little drunk/barred out at the moment so :stoned:

I'll come back to this one :lol:


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18954596 - 10/09/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
What would replace the church (religion) if this were the case? Are you saying that their should be no religion whatsoever, no spirituality, based on a few minor mistakes in the past?
Are you calling for abolition of spirituality and religion; claiming that this would be better for all-mankind?
How exactly would we be better 'morally' speaking, it seems this would be the opposite. But i dunno i'm a little drunk/barred out at the moment so :stoned:

I'll come back to this one :lol:




As much as I'd like to see religion gone, all I was saying is with religion gone humans would be almost as corrupt as they are with it.

If it were in my power I probably would abolish all the major religions: christianity, judaism, islam, hinduism, jainism, buddhism. That would make me really happy, but I'm not sure that people would be much less corrupt - although at least science could move on unimpeded.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Mind Control [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18954670 - 10/09/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

hTx said:
What would replace the church (religion) if this were the case? Are you saying that their should be no religion whatsoever, no spirituality, based on a few minor mistakes in the past?
Are you calling for abolition of spirituality and religion; claiming that this would be better for all-mankind?
How exactly would we be better 'morally' speaking, it seems this would be the opposite. But i dunno i'm a little drunk/barred out at the moment so :stoned:

I'll come back to this one :lol:




As much as I'd like to see religion gone, all I was saying is with religion gone humans would be almost as corrupt as they are with it.

If it were in my power I probably would abolish all the major religions: christianity, judaism, islam, hinduism, jainism, buddhism. That would make me really happy, but I'm not sure that people would be much less corrupt - although at least science could move on unimpeded.



I agree, not much would change if religion disappeared..but it wouldn't disappear for long. People have spiritual/religious experiences all the time. Perhaps these experiences are very much apart of being human, but regardless, writers and poets a like would rekindle the flame that you attempted to put out.

I think science does move on unimpeded already, well it is impeded by its dogmatism..and to ignore an aspect of human experience (spiritual experiences) completely sounds a lot like impeding science as well.

I feel even if all religious texts were destroyed, and we started over with an unknowing populace..people would question everything to the point of getting an answer. For many that answer is God, the Universe, Flying Spaghetti monster, w/e.

If we hit a reset button on humanity, leaving them essentially caveman...would we develop similiar ideas about a soul and of God?

P.S.

I think if you abolished all major religions you would draw mass hate from the masses :lol: they would come at ya with pitchforks n shit.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18954758 - 10/09/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:

I think if you abolished all major religions you would draw mass hate from the masses :lol: they would come at ya with pitchforks n shit.




Maybe then they would understand how I feel about them, but probably not. I'd take their religion away out of spite



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18955871 - 10/09/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

based on a few minor mistakes in the past?

:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineIdentity
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18958261 - 10/10/13 08:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
“The first thing to be degraded in any nation is the state of Man, himself. Nations which have high ethical tone are difficult to conquer. Their loyalties are hard to shake, their allegiance to their leaders is fanatical, and what they usually call their spiritual integrity cannot be violated by duress. It is not efficient to attack a nation in such a frame of mind. It is the basic purpose of [mind-control] to reduce that state of mind to a point where it can be ordered and enslaved. Thus, the first target is Man, himself. He must be degraded from a spiritual being to an animalistic reaction pattern. He must think of himself as an animal, capable only of animalistic reactions. He must no longer think of himself, or of his fellows, as capable of ‘spiritual endurance,’ or nobility... “As it seems in foreign nations that the church is the most ennobling influence, each and every branch and activity of each and every church, must, one way, or another, be discredited. Religion must become unfashionable by demonstrating broadly, through pyschopolitical indoctrination, that the soul is non-existent, and that Man is an animal.”

Seems a lot like what is going on nowadays. Degradation of the human being to an animal.. Making this idea seem like this is the intelligent way to believe oneself to be.

So, lets discuss. I mean..this is a belief after-all.

Which is a more empowering (meaning to the individual) belief?
The belief in the soul?
Or the belief in the animal?




If I may, I read a book called Ishmael written by Daniel Quinn. If your enjoy short novels I'd definitely recommend it. I believe it would answer this question far better than I ever could.


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