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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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A thought on how they busted DPR
#18954333 - 10/09/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright, we all know DPR was arrested and that it was because he used the nickname attached to one of his email-addresses before setting up Silk Road. Most importantly, we believe, according to the indictment, that they didn't manage to break the onion network and that it was only a fault on DPR's side (among some others) that got him busted.
However, there's a thought that was crawling up my spine and I didn't like it. It's just a thought, a hypothesis, if you prefer that name, that I wanted to share.
Recently there's been a couple news articles on the NSA spying on everyone and that everyone is pretty much a suspect. We believe that they neither have the man nor computing power to disentangle that fucking huge amount of information and as long as they are not searching for anything (or anyone!) specific, there's really not much you have to worry about. A few weeks later there were other news reports that the NSA is handing out the information it gathers to the DEA and they use it to actively prosecute people or tell other agencies (like the FBI) the information they gathered. However, when those people are prosecuted, there will be no mentioning of the NSA and the way the information was gathered (very often illegally). You can find these articles on google, describing it probably a lot better than I did here. The most important point is that the police/DEA has to use a method called parallel construction to prosecute people: That means they know everything from the NSA already and that tells them how to and where to look for building up a case, but they are not allowed to mention the NSA or its information anywhere. Now my questions are:
What if this is how they busted DPR? What if the NSA does have enough tor nodes and computing power to monitor the tor network? What if the NSA gave the information it gathered this way about DPR and some vendors to the FBI/DEA and they used parallel construction to bust DPR?
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NetDiver
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18954339 - 10/09/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If that were the case, you'd think he would have been busted a lot sooner, since according to those articles the DEA-NSA partnership has been going on for months (if not years).
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: NetDiver]
#18954370 - 10/09/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, but you do not know when they managed to crack the tor network (if they did). You also do not know how much time the DEA/FBI needed to disentangle that information and build up a good case against DPR. Recall that they are not allowed to use the information the NSA gave them before court and that they need time to build up something bulletproof. They cannot just bust him without any solid evidence.
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Legend
RIP Sasha



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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18954402 - 10/09/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not saying i know shit about anything, but that totally makes sense to me OP. and i don't like it.
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TrentBoyett
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Lord_McLovin] 1
#18954408 - 10/09/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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This has already been brought up multiple times in other threads, I believe this is pretty much exactly what happened.
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ilus
Bred in Captivity



Registered: 05/07/04
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: TrentBoyett]
#18954442 - 10/09/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, there is no way to tell but I believe the fact that they "randomly" found paper passports in the mail makes it pretty clear that the NSA was involved somehow. No idea about tor. The evidence suggests it is alright but who knows.
-------------------- Message me for Mushroom Tinctures Lion's Mane, Reishi, Turkey Tail, Chaga, Shiitake / Extracts / CBD Isolate, Oil ---- My Art, Design, Sculpture & Music: http://www.conceptflow.org
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zappaisgod
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: TrentBoyett]
#18954457 - 10/09/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Any improperly gathered evidence will not be admissable in court.
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: ilus]
#18954488 - 10/09/13 01:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
illustrain said: Yeah, there is no way to tell but I believe the fact that they "randomly" found paper passports in the mail makes it pretty clear that the NSA was involved somehow. No idea about tor. The evidence suggests it is alright but who knows.
Not that I disagree with the overall possibility of parallel construction being used here, but finding some passports in the mail is investigating 101 and doesn't really imply the work of the NSA.
Mail is far from secure and any good private investigator, much less federal agent investigator, has people within the USPS who tip them off when they're watching somebody. Packages are even less secure as they're often left on doorsteps and can easily be intercepted, opened and repackaged. These days they probably don't have to do any of that they can x ray the envelope.
I read once that 90% of an FBI field agent's job is digging through the trash and looking at the mail of the target.
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EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18954494 - 10/09/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lord_McLovin said: Alright, we all know DPR was arrested and that it was because he used the nickname attached to one of his email-addresses before setting up Silk Road. Most importantly, we believe, according to the indictment, that they didn't manage to break the onion network and that it was only a fault on DPR's side (among some others) that got him busted.
However, there's a thought that was crawling up my spine and I didn't like it. It's just a thought, a hypothesis, if you prefer that name, that I wanted to share.
Recently there's been a couple news articles on the NSA spying on everyone and that everyone is pretty much a suspect. We believe that they neither have the man nor computing power to disentangle that fucking huge amount of information and as long as they are not searching for anything (or anyone!) specific, there's really not much you have to worry about. A few weeks later there were other news reports that the NSA is handing out the information it gathers to the DEA and they use it to actively prosecute people or tell other agencies (like the FBI) the information they gathered. However, when those people are prosecuted, there will be no mentioning of the NSA and the way the information was gathered (very often illegally). You can find these articles on google, describing it probably a lot better than I did here. The most important point is that the police/DEA has to use a method called parallel construction to prosecute people: That means they know everything from the NSA already and that tells them how to and where to look for building up a case, but they are not allowed to mention the NSA or its information anywhere. Now my questions are:
What if this is how they busted DPR? What if the NSA does have enough tor nodes and computing power to monitor the tor network? What if the NSA gave the information it gathered this way about DPR and some vendors to the FBI/DEA and they used parallel construction to bust DPR?
I had a similiar theory in the original SR thread before it got nuked.
Pretty much it boils down to they wouldnt want to let anyone know if they broke tor for a few reasons.
One is damage control over the NSA spying on everyone. Wouldnt look good if they just broke a very strong encryption while they tell everyone they cant.
Also, if they did hack tor, but made it seem as if they didnt. When the next round of SR clones pop up, they will be easier to take down.
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ilus
Bred in Captivity



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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18954496 - 10/09/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Any improperly gathered evidence will not be admissable in court.
But that is exactly where the parallel construction comes in. I personally cant ever remember hearing about any court case where specifically the NSA's evidence was used.
-------------------- Message me for Mushroom Tinctures Lion's Mane, Reishi, Turkey Tail, Chaga, Shiitake / Extracts / CBD Isolate, Oil ---- My Art, Design, Sculpture & Music: http://www.conceptflow.org
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fapjack
Title



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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: ilus]
#18954531 - 10/09/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
illustrain said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Any improperly gathered evidence will not be admissable in court.
But that is exactly where the parallel construction comes in. I personally cant ever remember hearing about any court case where specifically the NSA's evidence was used.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/05/the-nsa-is-giving-your-phone-records-to-the-dea-and-the-dea-is-covering-it-up/
They took over 2 and a half years to take SR down, who the hell knows how they did it.
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fiddle



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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18954532 - 10/09/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Any improperly gathered evidence will not be admissable in court.
The premise of parallel construction is that illegally obtained information is used to acquire up more incriminating evidence which is in turn used to make an arrest and to explain away the illegality of the first set of information. It is a process of information laundering.
-------------------- Tickle my bassline.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: ilus]
#18954539 - 10/09/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I haven't either. Nor do any of us know much at all about the case. The OP is pure speculation without one shred of support in the known record. Let's wait for the facts before we hyperventilate.
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fiddle



Registered: 04/10/08
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Loc: PNW
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18954546 - 10/09/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll go file a FOI request with the NSA and be back with some facts in a jif'.
-------------------- Tickle my bassline.
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Smushroom
Avid Learner

Registered: 02/02/05
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I won't argue whether or not the NSA has the ability to analyze all the data they actually collect I will say that in this case it wasn't necessary. Why would they go to the effort when basic investigative techniques can solve the crime?
It doesn't seem as the IDs sent from Canada were used in tracking him down. They were just included to add PC after the fact. ~10% of all packages being mailed through customs get inspected (opened, xrayed, or dogs). WOuldn't take much crappy packaging on the shippers part to find them. Also depends on what he was hiding them in as well. If customs gets a package that cost $20 to ship but contains a $2 item on the declaration form or if the dec form doesn't match the contents it will get flagged.
To find the owner of a website IMO the basic routine would be: Search for all mentions of that website online
Take note of the users/sites mention the website
Search for other posts by those users that may relate
Find users that have made multiple posts that relate to, not just mention, that website
Link those users to real life identities
Look for links between those identities and the website
******** If you follow that basic routine for SR and put in the time to analyze it then it is a pretty obvious trace since all the info was available on searchable forums. I'm actually surprised he didn't get busted earlier.
The amount of time, manpower, and computing power to analyze NSA web traffic data is probably 10x the cost of the manpower needed to do the search posted above manually.
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Dr. P. Silocybin
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#18954611 - 10/09/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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of course the NSA shared information about Dread Pirate Roberts with the DEA and FBI. That's what they do, and I doubt there was ever a time when they couldn't crack tor.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said: of course the NSA shared information about Dread Pirate Roberts with the DEA and FBI. That's what they do, and I doubt there was ever a time when they couldn't crack tor.
Link?
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Dr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?



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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18954726 - 10/09/13 02:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Common sense?
We know they're gathering the information. What do you think they're doing with it?
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Not Responding
Busted Liar...


Registered: 09/17/13
Posts: 6,755
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whos DPR? a shroomy member? what if and i mean what if ythan is selling our accounts?
-------------------- Dear Kratom, I've been numb for so long that I forgot how to feel So I don't care if it will break my heart, Just fuck me till I disappear
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Link?
Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said: Common sense?
I don't see the link. Not saying it's impossible just saying that it is unnecessary and unlikely. And fuck DPR anyway. In fact, fuck anybody in Anonymous.Quote:
We know they're gathering the information. What do you think they're doing with it?
Tracking communication patterns. This is 100% legal.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
Not Responding said: whos DPR? a shroomy member? what if and i mean what if ythan is selling our accounts?
Dread Pirate Roberts
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
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Quote:
Not Responding said: whos DPR? a shroomy member? what if and i mean what if ythan is selling our accounts?
He's the silk road guy who got busted...
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Not Responding
Busted Liar...


Registered: 09/17/13
Posts: 6,755
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: TrentBoyett]
#18954867 - 10/09/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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oh, yall are crazy...
silk was no secret and finding out who ran the shit was no secret either. theres no conspiracy behind this... the dude had an illegal drug site and the dude had illegal drugs. this shit was bound to happen sooner or later.
-------------------- Dear Kratom, I've been numb for so long that I forgot how to feel So I don't care if it will break my heart, Just fuck me till I disappear
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NetDiver
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955018 - 10/09/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Any improperly gathered evidence will not be admissable in court.
Actually there was an article about this a little while back. DEA has been using NSA surveillance to pinpoint suspects, then they pull them over with a "routine" stop or something similar, and pretend that the investigation began there. Come to think of it, this sounds like exactly what happened to DPR.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805
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Smushroom
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: NetDiver]
#18955175 - 10/09/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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My point is "why is that necessary?"
I just outlined and very simple way DPR could have been outed using nothing but google. There is no need to analyze billions of surveillance records to figure it out
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Dr. P. Silocybin
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955431 - 10/09/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: This is 100% legal.
You think that what the NSA is doing to spy on the communications of American citizens is legal?
Please, explain. I would love to hear your justification for this breach of privacy.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: This is 100% legal.
You think that what the NSA is doing to spy on the communications of American citizens is legal?
Please, explain. I would love to hear your justification for this breach of privacy.
It is 100% legal to observe who calls who. And if they get a warrant it is legal to read the contents. That is the fucking law. Act accordingly.
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Smushroom
Avid Learner

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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955557 - 10/09/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree with zappa here, they are operating within the law. Also there is no guaranteed right to privacy in the constitution.
The only illegal thing they have actually done is spy on communications of foreign governments and embassies within the US. That is a world matter, not a national one though.
While I don't agree with what they are doing until we actually elect senators and representatives that can actually work together and draft a solution to stop it that can be voted on by the people, there is little that can be done.
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fapjack
Title



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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Smushroom]
#18955585 - 10/09/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You guys trust our government a lot more than I do... Actually more than 99% of the people on this forum do.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: fapjack] 2
#18955596 - 10/09/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I trust them to fuck me. Act accordingly
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fapjack
Title



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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955774 - 10/09/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fair enough.
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RiderOnTheStorm
Reject thug culture



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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18955949 - 10/09/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I trust them to fuck me. Act accordingly
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mylfgur
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: NetDiver]
#18956066 - 10/09/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I trust them to fuck me. Act accordingly
Indeed
Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: This is 100% legal.
You think that what the NSA is doing to spy on the communications of American citizens is legal?
Please, explain. I would love to hear your justification for this breach of privacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Any improperly gathered evidence will not be admissable in court.
Actually there was an article about this a little while back. DEA has been using NSA surveillance to pinpoint suspects, then they pull them over with a "routine" stop or something similar, and pretend that the investigation began there. Come to think of it, this sounds like exactly what happened to DPR.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805
Except if you'd fully read the federal indictment or criminal complaint you'd see that they only were able to link much to DPR except through retroactive investigation on logged ISP records obtained after copious amounts of subpoenas, communications obtained presumably after copious amounts of subpoenas, and money transferred through legal channels. This information was able to be "disentangled" (as one user above put it) from the cornucopia of logged data only after the feds had a suspect in mind to devote the energy towards.
Actually, one of the Snowden leaks reveal that the NSA has indeed been trying to crack and track Tor users since 2007. Their most recent guidelines as to how to deal with it are to identify Tor users and exploit known security vulnerabilities in their software to track them (i.e. hack them). Other methods involve tracking cookies from google ads. All of this points to the conclusion that the NSA used conventional methods to retroactively link DPR to his crimes only after he had revealed himself as a suspect to the prying federal eyes.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18956113 - 10/09/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lord_McLovin said: Alright, we all know DPR was arrested and that it was because he used the nickname attached to one of his email-addresses before setting up Silk Road. Most importantly, we believe, according to the indictment, that they didn't manage to break the onion network and that it was only a fault on DPR's side (among some others) that got him busted.
he was arrested because he was alleged to have established a criminal enterprise, evaded taxes and conspired to commit a number of criminal acts, not because of his handle on the internet
they didnt need to hack/crack or do anything else with the tor network, the shit isnt as secure as you're led to believe, the feds took their time, they gathered information, they traced the money and they built a case
the NSA needed no involvement, the info the NSA is gathering isnt on you and me and it's nothing important, it's metadata, the same shit your phone company sells to advertisers. the NSA isnt interested in domestic crime
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fapjack
Title



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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Prisoner#1]
#18956123 - 10/09/13 07:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Read my link.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: fapjack]
#18956161 - 10/09/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fapjack said: Read my link.
your link means dick, the data contains nothing personal, no conversations or anything that's actually important, it's the same shit that your phone company is already selling to other companies but for some reason everyone is upset that the NSA and other agencies have it, why, because they didnt make the big evil corporations even wealthier?
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mpd
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Prisoner#1]
#18956166 - 10/09/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Lord_McLovin said: Alright, we all know DPR was arrested and that it was because he used the nickname attached to one of his email-addresses before setting up Silk Road. Most importantly, we believe, according to the indictment, that they didn't manage to break the onion network and that it was only a fault on DPR's side (among some others) that got him busted.
he was arrested because he was alleged to have established a criminal enterprise, evaded taxes and conspired to commit a number of criminal acts, not because of his handle on the internet
they didnt need to hack/crack or do anything else with the tor network, the shit isnt as secure as you're led to believe, the feds took their time, they gathered information, they traced the money and they built a case
the NSA needed no involvement, the info the NSA is gathering isnt on you and me and it's nothing important, it's metadata, the same shit your phone company sells to advertisers. the NSA isnt interested in domestic crime
Says who?
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: mpd]
#18956261 - 10/09/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
mpd said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Lord_McLovin said: Alright, we all know DPR was arrested and that it was because he used the nickname attached to one of his email-addresses before setting up Silk Road. Most importantly, we believe, according to the indictment, that they didn't manage to break the onion network and that it was only a fault on DPR's side (among some others) that got him busted.
he was arrested because he was alleged to have established a criminal enterprise, evaded taxes and conspired to commit a number of criminal acts, not because of his handle on the internet
they didnt need to hack/crack or do anything else with the tor network, the shit isnt as secure as you're led to believe, the feds took their time, they gathered information, they traced the money and they built a case
the NSA needed no involvement, the info the NSA is gathering isnt on you and me and it's nothing important, it's metadata, the same shit your phone company sells to advertisers. the NSA isnt interested in domestic crime
Says who?
says who what?
you think that DPR was busted because of his moniker/email?
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fapjack
Title



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Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Prisoner#1]
#18956381 - 10/09/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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fapjack said: Read my link.
your link means dick, the data contains nothing personal, no conversations or anything that's actually important, it's the same shit that your phone company is already selling to other companies but for some reason everyone is upset that the NSA and other agencies have it, why, because they didnt make the big evil corporations even wealthier?
Your opinion means dick, and hints to you being a homosexual.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: fapjack]
#18956580 - 10/09/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wasnt expressing my opinion, I was stating facts
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Prisoner#1]
#18956671 - 10/09/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You were not stating facts, you were stating how you lack common sense. I can't prove that the DEA regularly breaks the law, but common sense says that they do.
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EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: fapjack]
#18956722 - 10/09/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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themusicofzann
Meta-Ubermensch



Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 532
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: EdibleStereos]
#18956796 - 10/09/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Rumor is DPR was a shroomerite, just like YOU
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    The above is hypothetical, when it is illegal. Psychedelics are performance enhancers for the philosopher. Knowledge and wisdom are one and the same.
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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If he was why did he post his link in the forum no one goes to?
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EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
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Quote:
themusicofzann said: Rumor is DPR was a shroomerite, just like YOU
not true dude. That buddy was loaded. I'm broke as fuck.
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Dr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?



Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 2,620
Loc: The Great Divide
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18956897 - 10/09/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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Dr. P. Silocybin said:
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zappaisgod said: This is 100% legal.
You think that what the NSA is doing to spy on the communications of American citizens is legal?
Please, explain. I would love to hear your justification for this breach of privacy.
It is 100% legal to observe who calls who. And if they get a warrant it is legal to read the contents. That is the fucking law. Act accordingly.
So I am supposed to believe that is all the NSA does? They aren't tracking internet usage, Looking for patterns, and flagging users who visit certain sites?
This is the Patriot Act surveillance state.
Quote:
smushroom said: I agree with zappa here, they are operating within the law. Also there is no guaranteed right to privacy in the constitution.
The fourth Amendment guarantees my right to privacy against unreasonable search and seizure.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Quote:
themusicofzann said: Rumor is DPR was a shroomerite, just like YOU
Rumor is he made one post here and then fucked off.
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Smushroom
Avid Learner

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
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Every single time you sign up to a website, internet service, cable tv service, telephone service, etc they have the Terms of Service that no one actually reads. For *most* websites it gives them the authority to monitor your usage and sell that data for profit. If you agree to allow them to give out your usage data then you have no real expectation of privacy and the 4th amendment doesn't apply.
I am not trying to argue that what the NSA is doing is right, far from it. I disagree with the amount of monitoring they are conducting on American citizens. I am saying that given our current laws they are legally allowed to do what they do. So far everything Edward Snowden has revealed them doing is completely legal given our current laws.
And no, I do not think the NSA has the computing power to actually process 99% of the data they collect and are not making lists based on patterns and flagging users. You are completely overestimating their abilities. It is much easier for them to use that data to go after a specific target than it is to use it to find targets.
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Smushroom]
#18957922 - 10/10/13 04:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smushroom said: I am saying that given our current laws they are legally allowed to do what they do. So far everything Edward Snowden has revealed them doing is completely legal given our current laws.
That's not an argument at all. Everything the Nazis did was perfectly legal in Germany as well, I mean they were the guys in charge of the legislature. They were the guys brutally murdering 5 million jews and everything was in accordance with the law. And don't come telling me the US isn't a police state nowadays, because it de facto is. All you have to do is take a look at the amount of people incarcerated, the prison industrial complex, the incarceration and exploitation of minorities, the petty shit you can get into prison for nowadays, the cutting of civil liberties in the last decades and the amount of surveillance that surpasses anything the Stasi or GeStaPo did. Oh, I forgot to mention the torturing and taking away peoples liberty without court decision going on in Guantanamo bay. This shit is real and to me it appears as if you're trying to play it down. Oh, yeah, it's legal, right?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: This is 100% legal.
You think that what the NSA is doing to spy on the communications of American citizens is legal?
Please, explain. I would love to hear your justification for this breach of privacy.
It is 100% legal to observe who calls who. And if they get a warrant it is legal to read the contents. That is the fucking law. Act accordingly.
So I am supposed to believe that is all the NSA does? They aren't tracking internet usage, Looking for patterns, and flagging users who visit certain sites?
This is the Patriot Act surveillance state.
Quote:
smushroom said: I agree with zappa here, they are operating within the law. Also there is no guaranteed right to privacy in the constitution.
The fourth Amendment guarantees my right to privacy against unreasonable search and seizure.
The word privacy is not in it and reasonable is open to interpretation. Data mining is not an infringement on your privacy since it is a monitoring of public activity. Who you call is public information. What you say is protected.
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dfoolz
Stranger
Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 10
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18958787 - 10/10/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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o_O
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: dfoolz]
#18958805 - 10/10/13 11:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There are eyes everywhere. Act accordingly.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: zappaisgod]
#18958807 - 10/10/13 11:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The word privacy is not in it and reasonable is open to interpretation. Data mining is not an infringement on your privacy since it is a monitoring of public activity. Who you call is public information. What you say is protected.
I'm curious about how you're defining the term "public information." Can just anyone obtain your call logs?
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Magicman69
All About the Benjamins



Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 6,876
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: dfoolz]
#18958812 - 10/10/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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My college English teacher (who's ex Navy) Claimed that there is nothing the NSA can't crack online. He said if they want your information, they will get it (A lot of times illegally). Being the good Shroomerite I am I mentioned Tor, and he said hes positive they have beat the Tor system but would never openly admit to spending so much money on spying on us
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: psi]
#18958827 - 10/10/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The word privacy is not in it and reasonable is open to interpretation. Data mining is not an infringement on your privacy since it is a monitoring of public activity. Who you call is public information. What you say is protected.
I'm curious about how you're defining the term "public information." Can just anyone obtain your call logs?
Doesn't the phone company have them? If you are walking down the street and a camera nearby records you talking to somebody is that private? The content can be reasonably assumed private up until they get a warrant but the fact that you spoke over public transmission lines is not.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Magicman69]
#18958834 - 10/10/13 11:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magicman69 said: My college English teacher (who's ex Navy) Claimed that there is nothing the NSA can't crack online. He said if they want your information, they will get it (A lot of times illegally). Being the good Shroomerite I am I mentioned Tor, and he said hes positive they have beat the Tor system but would never openly admit to spending so much money on spying on us 
Stop flattering yourself.
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Magicman69]
#18958835 - 10/10/13 11:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magicman69 said: My college English teacher (who's ex Navy) Claimed that there is nothing the NSA can't crack online. He said if they want your information, they will get it (A lot of times illegally). Being the good Shroomerite I am I mentioned Tor, and he said hes positive they have beat the Tor system but would never openly admit to spending so much money on spying on us 
He's wrong. He doesn't understand how Tor works, and he doesn't understand how encryption works. The NSA nor anyone as of now can crack a 4096 bit encrypted message (or higher) - it would take thousands upon thousands of years. It's mathematically impossible until we get processing power that can complete that task. Even a 1024 bit key is unbreakable as of now, however they may become breakable in the future. This is why using a higher bit key such as 4096 ensures your encrypted message will not be decrypted anytime in the distant future.
-------------------- Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world? There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K Something abut that anaesthetic rush... Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One
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Magicman69
All About the Benjamins



Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 6,876
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I argued this, he said they don't need to break the encryption. He said they look for loopholes and most users aren't savvy enough to know them all, because the NSA doesn't expose there secrets. Just like OP said, they send the information to another agency who arrests you, and then says nothing about how the information was actually gained. I think hes on tin foil hat status, unless your fucking Bin-Laden or someone like that, I don't see the NSA fucking with you
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
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Re: A thought on how they busted DPR [Re: Magicman69]
#18958896 - 10/10/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magicman69 said: I argued this, he said they don't need to break the encryption. He said they look for loopholes and most users aren't savvy enough to know them all, because the NSA doesn't expose there secrets. Just like OP said, they send the information to another agency who arrests you, and then says nothing about how the information was actually gained. I think hes on tin foil hat status, unless your fucking Bin-Laden or someone like that, I don't see the NSA fucking with you
Well there are not "loopholes" in encryption, that being said someone can use complete encryption and still make slip ups (eg: DPR) - that is how they catch you. It's a game of chess - you always have to be thinking 10 steps ahead of them.
For example, DPR should have assumed from the beginning that the feds had control of his server. When you are developing something such as that, you have to assume the worst has happened. DPR did not - and as a result when the feds had access to the server(s) they were able to access him, as he just used a VPN (that kept logs!!!). It's all there in the indictment. It makes me think that DPR never had any formal or informal software security training.
-------------------- Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world? There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K Something abut that anaesthetic rush... Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One
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mylfgur
Untitled



Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 1,282
Loc: Ohio
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Quote:
tymoteusz3 said: It makes me think that DPR never had any formal or informal software security training.
I agree with you there for sure. He seemed to be intuitive and able to code, but as you can see his undergraduate degree was in Physics, and went for Materials Science for his MS.
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