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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: qman]
    #18953969 - 10/09/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

In full disclosure, I'm undecided on the topic and mostly skeptical.  However, if you search pubmed for "telepathy" and limit results to "clinical trials" it seems as though telepathy is well-documented. 

It seems as though one of the prominent authors is Sheldrake., who has published more than one article on the subject.

Other, perhaps less objective assessments have been performed as well, such as this study.

Admittedly, I haven't read many of these abstracts, but the interesting thing is that if you DO read the papers, the introductions are filled with oodles of citations, the same way any "traditional" research paper is. 

Taken as a whole, its really odd that there are (apparently) LOTS of data supporting "psi" phenomenon, but yet it still regarded as pseudoscience.  Kinda neat actually.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: hTx]
    #18953982 - 10/09/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
My friend still had very little success in guessing what my message was. We weren't sure if it was because of my 'sending' skills, or his reading skills.



I'll give you a hint -- it's because telepathy is bullshit. Also, I'm guessing that your "surprising amount of success" was confirmation bias and nothing more.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: NetDiver]
    #18954001 - 10/09/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

hTx said:
My friend still had very little success in guessing what my message was. We weren't sure if it was because of my 'sending' skills, or his reading skills.



I'll give you a hint -- it's because telepathy is bullshit.




that's not much of a hint lol. i mean if your idea of telepathy is 'guess what color im thinking of' yeah that might not always fly. but if you think we don't have mental levels of communication im sorry but that is what is bullshit.


--------------------
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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: g00ru]
    #18954020 - 10/09/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

g00ru said:
cause science would have a big problem with such a claim. behavioral psychology is getting closer though. they just need to find the right words to say that 'yeah, all our minds are connected to the same source'




No it wouldn't, in fact the Randi foundation offers a $1,000,000 prize for anyone who can demonstrate evidence of paranormal or supernatural abilities, of which telepathy is included. The parameters of the tests are fairly lenient, just enough to create a controlled experiment.

If it was so easy and such a given ability surely somebody in the last 17 years that the JREF has been around would have come forward and taken the million dollars, right?

I have a trick I do with my friends where I guess random cards from the top of a deck of shuffled and cut cards. I get three guesses on each card and my success rate is unbelievable, people always freak out when I do it. What I'm conscious of and what they're not is that I read the micro expressions on their faces and listen carefully to their verbal responses, and I can tell from that if I should guess lower, higher, if I got the suit right, or if I got the number but not the suit. "Telepathy" is just subconscious nonverbal communication, if it was more than that I'd have $1,000,000 and international fame for winning the JREF challenge.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: g00ru]
    #18954023 - 10/09/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

g00ru said:


that's not much of a hint lol. i mean if your idea of telepathy is 'guess what color im thinking of' yeah that might not always fly.




If telepathy is real, it should.  If you said, "I've chosen either green, red, blue, or orange, guess which color without looking", your chances of success should be 1 in 4 (25%).

If, over repeated trials, you guessed correctly at a rate significantly higher than 25%, that would be statistically greater than chance,


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: g00ru]
    #18954029 - 10/09/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

g00ru said:
that's not much of a hint lol. i mean if your idea of telepathy is 'guess what color im thinking of' yeah that might not always fly. but if you think we don't have mental levels of communication im sorry but that is what is bullshit.



What do you mean by "mental"? If you mean non-verbal, like reading facial expressions and stuff, that's not really mental. It results from pattern-recognition processes in our brains, which are physical.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #18954030 - 10/09/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
"Telepathy" is just subconscious nonverbal communication




right...but subconscious is different for everybody. some people are more aware of theirs than others. if you are experiencing these subconscious communications with your conscious mind, that is basically 'telepathy.' if you are a powerful magi or wizard, you can take that to the next level :cool:


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: NetDiver]
    #18954034 - 10/09/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

g00ru said:
that's not much of a hint lol. i mean if your idea of telepathy is 'guess what color im thinking of' yeah that might not always fly. but if you think we don't have mental levels of communication im sorry but that is what is bullshit.



What do you mean by "mental"? If you mean non-verbal, like reading facial expressions and stuff, that's not really mental. It results from pattern-recognition processes in our brains.




i mean perceived by the mind rather than the physical senses


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: g00ru]
    #18954040 - 10/09/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

g00ru said:
i mean perceived by the mind rather than the physical senses



:confused: Where is the line between the mind and the physical senses? I can find none.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: NetDiver]
    #18954055 - 10/09/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

dreams for example, are basically non-physical although they are influenced by memories of the physical world. same for the thinking rational mind, and then you have the intuitive mind that relies on feelings but is itself more of an energy.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineWhoManBeing
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: NetDiver]
    #18954059 - 10/09/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

where does thought come from?  where does it go?  i don't know :wink:


--------------------
Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!!

Eye was thinking the other day...  ahh, thinking never done me no good.



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OfflineWhoManBeing
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: WhoManBeing]
    #18954071 - 10/09/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

think there are more to dreams than just that.  what a mystery life is in itself.  how could one ever try to pinpoint something so vast and unexplainable.

row, row, row your boat gently down the stream.
merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.


--------------------
Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!!

Eye was thinking the other day...  ahh, thinking never done me no good.



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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: g00ru]
    #18954076 - 10/09/13 12:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

g00ru said:
dreams for example, are basically non-physical although they are influenced by memories of the physical world. same for the thinking rational mind, and then you have the intuitive mind that relies on feelings but is itself more of an energy.



How are dreams non-physical? We can hook someone's brain up to machines and see what they are dreaming. It's all in the brain, man.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2013/04/scientists-figure-out-what-you-see-while-youre-dreaming/


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: g00ru]
    #18954082 - 10/09/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

g00ru said:
Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
"Telepathy" is just subconscious nonverbal communication




right...but subconscious is different for everybody. some people are more aware of theirs than others. if you are experiencing these subconscious communications with your conscious mind, that is basically 'telepathy.' if you are a powerful magi or wizard, you can take that to the next level :cool:




No I'm using the term subconscious literally. As in, you are taking in the information without being consciously aware that you are. When a person becomes conscious of micro expressions and body language they have not become a wizard.

Way to ignore the rest of my post btw, since it makes your position look as ignorant as it is. If telepathy is as easy as eating some shrooms, why not go win a million dollars and turn the world of science upside down? Oh right, because despite years of attempts nobody has conclusively showed any ability of empirical telepathy, not on drugs, not in meditation, not in prayer. (Because it's not real)


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: NetDiver]
    #18954097 - 10/09/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

g00ru said:
dreams for example, are basically non-physical although they are influenced by memories of the physical world. same for the thinking rational mind, and then you have the intuitive mind that relies on feelings but is itself more of an energy.



How are dreams non-physical? We can hook someone's brain up to machines and see what they are dreaming. It's all in the brain, man.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2013/04/scientists-figure-out-what-you-see-while-youre-dreaming/




just because you can find a correlating pattern in the brain doesn't mean the physical brain is the source. you can easily look towards language as an equally valid source for how we perceive the universe, and language is a human invention.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Offlineqman
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #18954102 - 10/09/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
Quote:

g00ru said:
Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
"Telepathy" is just subconscious nonverbal communication




right...but subconscious is different for everybody. some people are more aware of theirs than others. if you are experiencing these subconscious communications with your conscious mind, that is basically 'telepathy.' if you are a powerful magi or wizard, you can take that to the next level :cool:




No I'm using the term subconscious literally. As in, you are taking in the information without being consciously aware that you are. When a person becomes conscious of micro expressions and body language they have not become a wizard.

Way to ignore the rest of my post btw, since it makes your position look as ignorant as it is. If telepathy is as easy as eating some shrooms, why not go win a million dollars and turn the world of science upside down? Oh right, because despite years of attempts nobody has conclusively showed any ability of empirical telepathy, not on drugs, not in meditation, not in prayer. (Because it's not real)


:whathesaid:


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: g00ru]
    #18954106 - 10/09/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

But, if you were to make adjustments to the brain, the dream would be different. Some people who have had brain injuries do not dream at all. Now, why would that be, if dreams are non-physical?


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #18954115 - 10/09/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
Way to ignore the rest of my post btw, since it makes your position look as ignorant as it is. If telepathy is as easy as eating some shrooms, why not go win a million dollars and turn the world of science upside down? Oh right, because despite years of attempts nobody has conclusively showed any ability of empirical telepathy, not on drugs, not in meditation, not in prayer. (Because it's not real)




that contest is totally silly man, that's like saying 'prove spiritual experiences are real, win million dollars.' they might as well give the money to some yogi sitting in an ashram in India if they were truly serious about it.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: NetDiver]
    #18954132 - 10/09/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
But, if you were to make adjustments to the brain, the dream would be different. Some people who have had brain injuries do not dream at all. Now, why would that be, if dreams are non-physical?




if you break a computer, the electricity can't run through it any more. if you alter the computer it alters the flow of electricity.

similarly the body is a very important part of the process, and obviously has its effect, i'm not arguing with that. that experiment makes total sense to me, but i dont feel the need to become strictly materialist because of it :shrug:


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Re: Telepathy Expirement [Re: g00ru] * 1
    #18954166 - 10/09/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

g00ru said:
Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
Way to ignore the rest of my post btw, since it makes your position look as ignorant as it is. If telepathy is as easy as eating some shrooms, why not go win a million dollars and turn the world of science upside down? Oh right, because despite years of attempts nobody has conclusively showed any ability of empirical telepathy, not on drugs, not in meditation, not in prayer. (Because it's not real)




that contest is totally silly man, that's like saying 'prove spiritual experiences are real, win million dollars.' they might as well give the money to some yogi sitting in an ashram in India if they were truly serious about it.




That's what you don't get, a yogi sitting in an ashram possesses no special powers. He's not telepathic, he's not really 150 years old, and he cannot really levitate. He can no doubt work his mind into strange places and experiences, but it's just a brain hack that has nothing to do with the objective world.

The contest is legitimate and has attracted purveyors of psuedoscience from around the world for two decades. More importantly it's an open invitation to mystics, psychics, telepaths, etc to establish their craft in full view of science for a substantial reward. If somebody won this it would not only make them rich it would force the scientific community to peer review the experiment.

Your argument that telepathy is not accepted for fear of upsetting the scientific status quo holds no water, many people try to show empirical evidence for telepathy every single year, and they repeatedly fail.


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