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Offlinewood chip
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pressure cooker limits
    #18952650 - 10/09/13 01:54 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't want to use a boiler, and would like to pressure cook 50 to 100 5 pound bags per run.

unicorn sell these the bottom picture http://fungiequipment.com/autoclaves/autoclaves/index.shtml ;

Has anyone used one of these before?
Apparently, it can use a boiler, or be heated with a gas burner as a pressure cooker.

I like the simplicity and lack of electrical parts, It would be nice if all American would make a 55 gallon pressure cooker.

Anyone know if they ever make bigger pressure cookers then the 941?


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: wood chip]
    #18953262 - 10/09/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

bubbasbarrels.com, i don't see it listed, but give them a call.  it's like 1200 for a 100 gallon drum with 55gal boiler, all stainless.  holds 50 5lb bags.


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InvisibleAleon
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: drake89]
    #18953304 - 10/09/13 08:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
bubbasbarrels.com, i don't see it listed, but give them a call.  it's like 1200 for a 100 gallon drum with 55gal boiler, all stainless.  holds 50 5lb bags.




Are you serious about this?  100GAL Drum and 55GALboiler? is this what you are using?


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Offlinemycoloco
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: Aleon]
    #18953547 - 10/09/13 10:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I wonder if Utube has any movies of someone trying to get a Bubbabarrel to 15 psi!!

BOOM!!!


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: mycoloco]
    #18953637 - 10/09/13 10:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

If using a drum, it should always have a 5 psi relief valve installed.  55 gallon drums can hold nearly 8 psi before warping.  Once they start to warp, they twist the lid ring enough to start letting the pressure out.  This is by design, as they're often left outdoors in very hot climates when half full.  They soon build pressure, but vent it rather than exploding.

That said, wanting to do 50 to 100 bags without a boiler is a tall order.  Any pressure cooker that large would be too big to lift and would require equipment just to move around.  If you want something homebuilt and you have welding and piping skills, you might look into my wood fired steam boiler used on our mushroom farm for the third year in a row now.  The boiler now feeds four 55 gallon drum sterilizers, each holding 18 to 20 six pound substrate bags.
RR


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Offlinewood chip
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #18954250 - 10/09/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

RR said "That said, wanting to do 50 to 100 bags without a boiler is a tall order"

Why?

25 bags per basket moved next to the flow hood on a cart is a lot easy then inoculating them.

I don't see any reason to move the cooker if a drain is installed at the bottom. Obviously wheels would be convenient with certain set ups.  For example, cooking outside and rolling the cooker into a clean room or lab to unload. 

A boiler seems like over kill unless you are retorting large amounts of bags. 
I have never understood why one would bother with a boiler with such a small amount of material. (100 bags and under). It is not as efficient, and typically require electrical source, sensors, more water, and extra piping additionally, moving heat and heating other materials the boiler itself, is a energy loss.  The boiler makes the cook longer also becuase it has to heat up first before steam can be generated.  Also, parts of boilers fail before "non electric all American pressure cookers"  and quality retorts which seem to outlast the boilers. 

The retort unicorn sells pictured at the bottom in the link can supposedly be used with or without a boiler.
In the case of this retort, why would one want to use a a boiler?


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Invisiblelaughingsol
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: wood chip]
    #18955510 - 10/09/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wood chip said:
why would one want to use a a boiler?




Cost prohibitiveness of the retorts.  If you've got the cash, lay it down on one of those units and you'll be happy.  Most people are trying to get into this business on the cheap and the boiler set-ups require little start-up capital.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: laughingsol]
    #18956316 - 10/09/13 08:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Aleon said:
Quote:

drake89 said:
bubbasbarrels.com, i don't see it listed, but give them a call.  it's like 1200 for a 100 gallon drum with 55gal boiler, all stainless.  holds 50 5lb bags.




Are you serious about this?  100GAL Drum and 55GALboiler? is this what you are using?




yes.  i'm thinking about getting another one, or figuring out if i can run it twice a day.  it's pretty badass.  joe (amanita virosa) 'designed' it, but I guess it all comes back to RR.


Quote:

mycoloco said:
I wonder if Utube has any movies of someone trying to get a Bubbabarrel to 15 psi!!

BOOM!!!




not sure if sarcasm or self promotion, but Carl says that people do that all the time.  my switch only goes up to 5psi, but i wouldn't want to work inside with a pressure bomb anyway.  maybe the 15psi people are distilling?  that seems to be a lot of their business.





Quote:

laughingsol said:
Quote:

wood chip said:
why would one want to use a a boiler?




Cost prohibitiveness of the retorts.  If you've got the cash, lay it down on one of those units and you'll be happy.  Most people are trying to get into this business on the cheap and the boiler set-ups require little start-up capital.




i've been on labx.com and the cheapest retort i found was $8k, 30 years old, and 3000 miles away.  it would probably require a lot more to get it running, like a boiler. 

I'm happy running at 3psi for 8 hours.  The boiler is quite efficient, it stays really hot cause it's so insulated.  so there's no 'cold' start except the first one.  you could do a 100 gal barrel upright, but you couldn't fit more bags, and it would be a total pain to load and unload versus mounting it horizontally.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: drake89]
    #18956824 - 10/09/13 09:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Where does one get a 100 gallon barrel?
RR


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Offlinewood chip
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #18956954 - 10/09/13 10:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The model Unicorn imports was under 3000 dollars. I think it can hold 100 gallons.
The dimension are 3 feet diameter and 4 feet deep which is much larger than a 55 gallon drum. 

If I had an all American pressure cooker that size I would be set because I could sterilize 100 bags in a couple of hours using a high pressure propane burner.  A drain on the bottom and four stack able racks would perfect the thing.


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InvisibleAleon
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: drake89]
    #18958268 - 10/10/13 08:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
Quote:

Aleon said:
Quote:

drake89 said:
bubbasbarrels.com, i don't see it listed, but give them a call.  it's like 1200 for a 100 gallon drum with 55gal boiler, all stainless.  holds 50 5lb bags.




Are you serious about this?  100GAL Drum and 55GALboiler? is this what you are using?




yes.  i'm thinking about getting another one, or figuring out if i can run it twice a day.  it's pretty badass.  joe (amanita virosa) 'designed' it, but I guess it all comes back to RR.





Yeah RR definitely made a groundbreaking stride in giving small scale mushrooms growers a chance.  One of my (friendly)competitors has a 300bag autoclave; its hard to compete and i need more sterilizer capacity.  If i was interested in one of those would i just call them and ask about it?  Does it come with all the parts?  Any more info on this unit would be awesome. I would build my own, but sadly i have no skills in this department (though i wish i could learn.) I do have 1 friend that can weld so that should help. Thanks drake


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: Aleon]
    #18958310 - 10/10/13 08:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Where does one get a 100 gallon barrel?
RR




http://bubbasbarrels.com/100-gallon-stainless-steel-drum

may be kind of pricey shipping TN -> OR or WA

Quote:

Aleon said:
Quote:

drake89 said:
Quote:

Aleon said:
Quote:

drake89 said:
bubbasbarrels.com, i don't see it listed, but give them a call.  it's like 1200 for a 100 gallon drum with 55gal boiler, all stainless.  holds 50 5lb bags.




Are you serious about this?  100GAL Drum and 55GALboiler? is this what you are using?




yes.  i'm thinking about getting another one, or figuring out if i can run it twice a day.  it's pretty badass.  joe (amanita virosa) 'designed' it, but I guess it all comes back to RR.





Yeah RR definitely made a groundbreaking stride in giving small scale mushrooms growers a chance.  One of my (friendly)competitors has a 300bag autoclave; its hard to compete and i need more sterilizer capacity.  If i was interested in one of those would i just call them and ask about it?  Does it come with all the parts?  Any more info on this unit would be awesome. I would build my own, but sadly i have no skills in this department (though i wish i could learn.) I do have 1 friend that can weld so that should help. Thanks drake




I dug through my email and found the proper link for those of you interested in buying one.  Or at least looking at it.  I'm not sure why he doesn't make it more accessible. 

http://www.bubbasbarrels.com/ashville-mushroom-sterilizer-50-deposit

Aleon, I would be happy to get you a parts list and tell you how to wire the thing up.  It's quite simple.  I think I paid Joe a $40 consulting fee, so maybe he'll chime in here.


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InvisibleAleon
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: drake89]
    #18958324 - 10/10/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks alot man.  So without shipping its $1300; with shipping, burner, all other parts, and shelves for inside 100gal drum it would maybe be around $2000 said and done?  And you said you can fit 50 bags, is this how much you do?  Not essential but pictures would be sweet.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: Aleon]
    #18958363 - 10/10/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, it has no burner, you screw a hot water heater element into the boiler that is attached to the bottom of the 100gal barrel.

The boiler also has a pressure switch, so it acts like an AA sterilizer.  Mine is set at 3psi.  That's the most expensive part.  The stainless piping is also expensive, but it should last forever.  Yes it was around $2000 all said and done.  It fits around 50-52 5pound bags.  You could run it twice a day if you did 6 hour runs at 5 psi, I reckon.  I could never find that chart for low pressure runs but we do 8-9 hours from 'cold' start at 2-3psi. 

Here's the only pic I could dig up, you can see the boiler hanging out in the background.  And that blue barrel up top is no longer in use, it scares me just looking at it now!



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Invisiblesolarity
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: drake89]
    #18959405 - 10/10/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I have a 180gal open topped tank with a piece of plastic covered PUR board cut to fit just inside to give a variable height lid. The tank is hooked up to a 7kw sauna steamer -the bottom box in the pic. A couple of thermostats for measuring tank and sub internal temps and some control circuitry for timings and measuring (top box).

I use it for  cold water soaking of dried sub, hot water soaking of grain in sandbags (just run the steam with water in it), steam pasteurising, sterilising grain bags and sub. bags. It has mesh over the steam pipe and a drain -it drains stuff really well. Everything is done in net vegetable bags, sand bags or sub bags.  Total cost less than $300.





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Offlinewood chip
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: solarity]
    #18960019 - 10/10/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Solarity

What kind of racks do you use and how to you remove them?
Also, when you say sterilize do you mean with pressure or just a long pasteurization.

You got a good price. 
How does a 7kw sauna steam generator differ from a boiler?  I am assuming it is electric and uses a lot of electricity. 

Besides cook time, my interest in a massive pressure cooker is to reduce energy cost, water use and avoid all electrical components.   

How many 5 lb bags of substrate can you run on a single cook?


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OfflineShu
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: wood chip]
    #18960338 - 10/10/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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Invisiblelipa

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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: drake89]
    #18960722 - 10/10/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
Yeah, it has no burner, you screw a hot water heater element into the boiler that is attached to the bottom of the 100gal barrel.

The boiler also has a pressure switch, so it acts like an AA sterilizer.  Mine is set at 3psi.  That's the most expensive part.  The stainless piping is also expensive, but it should last forever.  Yes it was around $2000 all said and done.  It fits around 50-52 5pound bags.  You could run it twice a day if you did 6 hour runs at 5 psi, I reckon.  I could never find that chart for low pressure runs but we do 8-9 hours from 'cold' start at 2-3psi. 

Here's the only pic I could dig up, you can see the boiler hanging out in the background.  And that blue barrel up top is no longer in use, it scares me just looking at it now!






You can buy a new boiler for 1500.00 and it will run 5-10 of those barrels @ 2psi all day long on very little gas.  3hp boiler would do that.


I am installing these in December and I am running them with a 7HP boiler that ran me 2900.00 with mechanical auto feeder. I calculated it will take 30-40 min to get them to 14psi and full of steam.

Lipa


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: lipa]
    #18961041 - 10/10/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lipa said:
Quote:

drake89 said:
Yeah, it has no burner, you screw a hot water heater element into the boiler that is attached to the bottom of the 100gal barrel.

The boiler also has a pressure switch, so it acts like an AA sterilizer.  Mine is set at 3psi.  That's the most expensive part.  The stainless piping is also expensive, but it should last forever.  Yes it was around $2000 all said and done.  It fits around 50-52 5pound bags.  You could run it twice a day if you did 6 hour runs at 5 psi, I reckon.  I could never find that chart for low pressure runs but we do 8-9 hours from 'cold' start at 2-3psi. 

Here's the only pic I could dig up, you can see the boiler hanging out in the background.  And that blue barrel up top is no longer in use, it scares me just looking at it now!






You can buy a new boiler for 1500.00 and it will run 5-10 of those barrels @ 2psi all day long on very little gas.  3hp boiler would do that.


I am installing these in December and I am running them with a 7HP boiler that ran me 2900.00 with mechanical auto feeder. I calculated it will take 30-40 min to get them to 14psi and full of steam.

Lipa




care to elaborate what those things are?  i know i've seen them in another thread.  they look like some pretty nice pressure vessels.


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Invisiblelipa

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Re: pressure cooker limits [Re: drake89]
    #18961353 - 10/10/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

They are simply as you said. Pressure vessels, retort, autoclave whatever application you want to use them for. These are old ones commonly found in hospitals. i believe they were made by American Sterilizer Co. in the early 1900. I will be using them to produce spawn for our local mushroom farms. They will hold about 800 lbs of substrate per run each.


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