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InvisiblehTx
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Registered: 03/27/13
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Mind Control
    #18949587 - 10/08/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

“The first thing to be degraded in any nation is the state of Man, himself. Nations which have high ethical tone are difficult to conquer. Their loyalties are hard to shake, their allegiance to their leaders is fanatical, and what they usually call their spiritual integrity cannot be violated by duress. It is not efficient to attack a nation in such a frame of mind. It is the basic purpose of [mind-control] to reduce that state of mind to a point where it can be ordered and enslaved. Thus, the first target is Man, himself. He must be degraded from a spiritual being to an animalistic reaction pattern. He must think of himself as an animal, capable only of animalistic reactions. He must no longer think of himself, or of his fellows, as capable of ‘spiritual endurance,’ or nobility... “As it seems in foreign nations that the church is the most ennobling influence, each and every branch and activity of each and every church, must, one way, or another, be discredited. Religion must become unfashionable by demonstrating broadly, through pyschopolitical indoctrination, that the soul is non-existent, and that Man is an animal.”

Seems a lot like what is going on nowadays. Degradation of the human being to an animal.. Making this idea seem like this is the intelligent way to believe oneself to be.

So, lets discuss. I mean..this is a belief after-all.

Which is a more empowering (meaning to the individual) belief?
The belief in the soul?
Or the belief in the animal?


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx] * 1
    #18949629 - 10/08/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Humans are animals and have always been animals.  I don't see how we are worse off then we have ever been. :shrug:  There's just more of us to muck it up.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18949660 - 10/08/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
“The first thing to be degraded in any nation is the state of Man, himself. Nations which have high ethical tone are difficult to conquer. Their loyalties are hard to shake, their allegiance to their leaders is fanatical, and what they usually call their spiritual integrity cannot be violated by duress. It is not efficient to attack a nation in such a frame of mind. It is the basic purpose of [mind-control] to reduce that state of mind to a point where it can be ordered and enslaved. Thus, the first target is Man, himself. He must be degraded from a spiritual being to an animalistic reaction pattern. He must think of himself as an animal, capable only of animalistic reactions. He must no longer think of himself, or of his fellows, as capable of ‘spiritual endurance,’ or nobility... “As it seems in foreign nations that the church is the most ennobling influence, each and every branch and activity of each and every church, must, one way, or another, be discredited. Religion must become unfashionable by demonstrating broadly, through pyschopolitical indoctrination, that the soul is non-existent, and that Man is an animal.”

Seems a lot like what is going on nowadays. Degradation of the human being to an animal.. Making this idea seem like this is the intelligent way to believe oneself to be.

So, lets discuss. I mean..this is a belief after-all.

Which is a more empowering (meaning to the individual) belief?
The belief in the soul?
Or the belief in the animal?




Are those quotes? By whom? Just curious, it doesn't really matter.

The belief that religious institutions "ennoble" people, is very ignorant in my opinion. Ignorant of the historical concerning the various churches active oppression of the human race, from the modern issues such as the pro-life and anti-gay movements anti-condom, through the inquisition and the European dark ages, Sharia law, down to India's caste system, the excessive Judaic law (as read in the Tanakh), and so on so forth.

Religion is a plague on mankind, it does not ennoble anyone.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Mind Control [Re: Icelander]
    #18949669 - 10/08/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Humans are animals and have always been animals.  I don't see how we are worse off then we have ever been. :shrug:  There's just more of us to muck it up.



No arguing that we are and always have been animals.

But we haven't always been spiritual animals.

What good has spirituality done?
What bad has it done?

What good/bad does a lack of these beliefs hold?

Which is more empowering and why?


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18949692 - 10/08/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:

What good has spirituality done?
What bad has it done?

What good/bad does a lack of these beliefs hold?

Which is more empowering and why?




Spirituality can ease death anxiety, if it is based on personal experience I'm more open minded towards it - unless there is a religious institution involved which guides those verifiably subjective experiences.

What bad it has done, in the form of religion is too long to list (began above in last post). In the form of mysticism it usually leads to delusion as one's experiences are guided by the assumptions they formed before beginning practice (or during practice). For someone such as myself to whom the truth is more important by an infinite degree than comfort, delusion/ignorance is as a greater harm than amputation.

The truth is more empowering whatever it may be, we're navigating at sea and bad maps sink ships.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18949699 - 10/08/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

By that you must mean we now think of ourselves as spiritual animals.  Well it doesn't seem to make much difference over all from what I've seen.  And there is easily as much evil that has come from it as good. 

If you want to see a change in mankind it will have to happen on the emotional psychological level and there is no real indication imo that any of that is happening to the race at large.  From my short study of human cultural history we seem to be pretty much the same psychologically as we have ever been.  Maybe we're a tad better overall but imo that's not enough to cause any major changes in the near or fairly distant future.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Mind Control [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18949721 - 10/08/13 01:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

the only way you can see you are possessed by your thoughts is by freeing yourself from them, then you will see that everybody else is too

not sure man is reduced to an animal, more made into a machine

:-)

it's a crazy world we live in, not much different from 500 years ago...
we still prosecute people that are different, we still think we know the absolute truth

it's great progress when you realize you are a soul in a body..
if only everybody knew this... then they would know themselves, there would be no suffering

machine: more is good, always want something, can never get enough(something missing), feels unique/separated from others (often above/below others)
human: common interests with others, less is more

many machines and many humans in society

free your mind of thoughts :wink: meditate/nature/simple lifestyle , don't watch tv


Edited by lessismore (10/08/13 02:03 PM)


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Mind Control [Re: Icelander]
    #18949727 - 10/08/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

From my short study of human cultural history we seem to be pretty much the same psychologically as we have ever been.




I've noticed somewhat of a difference in one area, its a negative change in my opinion. If you read the Odyssey there's a great example of this: Odysseus leaving Troy stops at a random town to slaughter its inhabitants and plunder - the narrator praises this 'heroic' action as Odysseus quickly flees before the cities allies could come seek vengeance.
In modern society a city may be annihilated and plundered, but people will pretend they care. Obviously they do not care as they commit the action in the first place and support the system in place which will perpetuate their favorite sport.

Its the same as with gladiatorial pits being replaced by boxing and ultra-violent movies. People pretend they don't like something or another which crosses their artificial sense of "morality", but their actions indicate a lack of that morality.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Mind Control [Re: lessismore]
    #18949731 - 10/08/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:

it's great progress when you realize you are a soul in a body..
if only everybody knew this... then they would know themselves, there would be no suffering




Prove any of this and I will suck your dick.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Mind Control [Re: lessismore]
    #18949735 - 10/08/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I firmly believe in mime control.



--------------------


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Mind Control [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18949750 - 10/08/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

hTx said:
“The first thing to be degraded in any nation is the state of Man, himself. Nations which have high ethical tone are difficult to conquer. Their loyalties are hard to shake, their allegiance to their leaders is fanatical, and what they usually call their spiritual integrity cannot be violated by duress. It is not efficient to attack a nation in such a frame of mind. It is the basic purpose of [mind-control] to reduce that state of mind to a point where it can be ordered and enslaved. Thus, the first target is Man, himself. He must be degraded from a spiritual being to an animalistic reaction pattern. He must think of himself as an animal, capable only of animalistic reactions. He must no longer think of himself, or of his fellows, as capable of ‘spiritual endurance,’ or nobility... “As it seems in foreign nations that the church is the most ennobling influence, each and every branch and activity of each and every church, must, one way, or another, be discredited. Religion must become unfashionable by demonstrating broadly, through pyschopolitical indoctrination, that the soul is non-existent, and that Man is an animal.”

Seems a lot like what is going on nowadays. Degradation of the human being to an animal.. Making this idea seem like this is the intelligent way to believe oneself to be.

So, lets discuss. I mean..this is a belief after-all.

Which is a more empowering (meaning to the individual) belief?
The belief in the soul?
Or the belief in the animal?




Are those quotes? By whom? Just curious, it doesn't really matter.

The belief that religious institutions "ennoble" people, is very ignorant in my opinion. Ignorant of the historical concerning the various churches active oppression of the human race, from the modern issues such as the pro-life and anti-gay movements anti-condom, through the inquisition and the European dark ages, Sharia law, down to India's caste system, the excessive Judaic law (as read in the Tanakh), and so on so forth.

Religion is a plague on mankind, it does not ennoble anyone.



It is from the book "A Synthesis of the Russian Brainwashing Manual on Pyschopolitics"
It is completely self-evident that religion and spirituality can ennoble any human of any class, most notably and most easily, the most numerous. The poor.
Religious institutions have helped many 'find themselves' and continues to do so. Religion remains popular after 10,000 years or so because of this very ennobling factor (many other factors as well). It gives man reason to believe in himself.
If man is reduced to a mechanism without any individuality..where does that leave man?

A mechanism. Without any individuality.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18949782 - 10/08/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

religion doesn't make you find yourself instantly, just like meditation doesn't

it is a slowly adopting lifestyle which follows, that does I think

slowly you get less and less thoughts, if you do either religion or meditation
you find inner peace either way, or with psychedelics

that is probably why people try to spread it, not only because some religions teach to spread it
but because people really do find inner peace and want to share the love

unfortunately religion can be used for mind control too.. and meditation too

there is no easy way of finding yourself, but finding yourself is one of the most important things you can do in this world
most people don't know themselves, but think/are 100% sure they do, very attached to their thoughts (own experience)
when you find yourself you are not in doubt, inner peace everyday that lasts :-) , and you often feel like you have to spread the love you feel

I have known a few christians that definitely knew themselves, because they felt love everyday and that love spread to everyone around them
met many muslims to that knew themselves
because they know that helping others is the best way to stay happy
religion is a possible way to know yourself :-)


Edited by lessismore (10/08/13 02:22 PM)


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18949834 - 10/08/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:

It is completely self-evident that religion and spirituality can ennoble any human of any class, most notably and most easily, the most numerous. The poor.
Religious institutions have helped many 'find themselves' and continues to do so. Religion remains popular after 10,000 years or so because of this very ennobling factor (many other factors as well). It gives man reason to believe in himself.
If man is reduced to a mechanism without any individuality..where does that leave man?

A mechanism. Without any individuality.




That sounds like a lump of assumptions to me, compared to the historical facts concerning religion's oppression of humanity. Is anyone tortured and killed for not 'finding themselves'? They're oppressed for reaching beyond the glass ceiling religion sets over them


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mind Control [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18949845 - 10/08/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't mind the idea of being an animal and don't consider the thought ignoble. I would guess that through religion a society achieves solidarity. Without a cohesive theme for culture to form around it's easy to splinter the masses and turn them against themselves.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mind Control [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18949967 - 10/08/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:

From my short study of human cultural history we seem to be pretty much the same psychologically as we have ever been.




I've noticed somewhat of a difference in one area, its a negative change in my opinion. If you read the Odyssey there's a great example of this: Odysseus leaving Troy stops at a random town to slaughter its inhabitants and plunder - the narrator praises this 'heroic' action as Odysseus quickly flees before the cities allies could come seek vengeance.
In modern society a city may be annihilated and plundered, but people will pretend they care. Obviously they do not care as they commit the action in the first place and support the system in place which will perpetuate their favorite sport.

Its the same as with gladiatorial pits being replaced by boxing and ultra-violent movies. People pretend they don't like something or another which crosses their artificial sense of "morality", but their actions indicate a lack of that morality.





:thumbup: 
That has been pointed out to me before.  We are only better at hiding our motives cloaked in PC ness. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mind Control [Re: Repertoire89] * 1
    #18949973 - 10/08/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

mio said:

it's great progress when you realize you are a soul in a body..
if only everybody knew this... then they would know themselves, there would be no suffering




Prove any of this and I will suck your dick.




Your dick is safe. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Mind Control [Re: Rahz]
    #18950022 - 10/08/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I don't mind the idea of being an animal and don't consider the thought ignoble. I would guess that through religion a society achieves solidarity. Without a cohesive theme for culture to form around it's easy to splinter the masses and turn them against themselves.




Good post :thumbup:

I think as humans, we think in terms of stories - "i"/ego stories, science/history stories, and religious/cultural stories. It definitely gives us a sense of collective, but probably is just the way the brain fundamentally works.


--------------------
full blown human


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18950144 - 10/08/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Which is a more empowering (meaning to the individual) belief?
The belief in the soul?
Or the belief in the animal?




I think neither are empowering.  I prefer the teachings occult teachings of Crowley and Gurdjieff, where one starts off as a mechanical animal and with hard work over time may develop some greater approximation of freedom.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Mind Control [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18952732 - 10/09/13 03:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Quote:

hTx said:
Which is a more empowering (meaning to the individual) belief?
The belief in the soul?
Or the belief in the animal?




I think neither are empowering.  I prefer the teachings occult teachings of Crowley and Gurdjieff, where one starts off as a mechanical animal and with hard work over time may develop some greater approximation of freedom.



This. :cool:


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Mind Control [Re: hTx]
    #18952835 - 10/09/13 04:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Cosmicjoke's answer :thumbup:


Edited by cez (10/09/13 04:52 AM)


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