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OfflineXUL
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Classical Conditioning
    #18946409 - 10/07/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Could you condition a fetus in the womb of a mother to fear trains. That is, when the baby is born into infancy could would it fear trains based on the classical conditioning you performed during fetal development?

Could a history or fear of trains result in negative behaviors during infancy? Could the behaviors continue further into adolescence?

Why, how?



I think yes. I will give an explanation later.


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OfflineLSDreams
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: XUL]
    #18946437 - 10/07/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:lolwut:


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: XUL]
    #18946501 - 10/07/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

well---- conditioning has been proven effective over an over.  the whole Behaviorism thing morphed into an evil science weilding the power to construct impenetrable industrial complexes of super-human comprehension. 

everything we experience in the modern world is the result of conditioning via behaviorism + capitalism.  Pavlov's Dogs aside, what you are suggesting is communicating with an unborn child.  while possible it might take quite a bit of effort and several scenarios to envoke the response you intend... not to mention the moral consequences of such actions.

I believe it is possible IF consciousness exists within the womb--- however, that is a mighty big if.  Since the fetus and mother are joined as one entity you may need the mother to agree to a bit of gestalt... or Stanislovsky method, or EST type actions in order to create true fear hormones. 

in the end--- a child wary of trains may live a safer life but also may exhibit some latent manifestations of a trauma disorder.

that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Reading what I just wrote reminded me of a social experiment i heard about, and I forget the Doctor's name right now, but he basically met with a series of undergrad students and asked them to write a sincere essay about something very personal.  Then using negative reinforcement he completely shredded these people's ideas of emotion, told them how incredibly stupid their grief was and suggested that they really weren't cut out for the study they had devoted themselves to for so many years.  Years later on a follow up interveiw, many of the people had dropped out of school, suffered severe depression, even suicide, all as a direct result of the experiment. 

So be careful.  Reality is subjective... even yours.


--------------------




"Whales have deep thoughts"

:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

:peace:


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: travelleler]
    #18946630 - 10/07/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------




"Whales have deep thoughts"

:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

:peace:


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: travelleler]
    #18946698 - 10/07/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Classical conditioning with a fetus is possible according to one of the doctors at my university. He explained it to us in terms of using pressure or gentle taps on the mothers abdomen in order to induce kicking. He said that a push will result in a kick with typical fetuses. By adding a tap to the sequence the fetuses were trained to kick by feeling just a tap - rather than a tap and push.

As far as the train goes, here is how I think about it. Everything I write here can be supported by a reference. If you want it PM me.

A mother lives next to train tracks. Once or twice a day a trains passes by and interrupts the mothers concentration thus causing her stress. The fetus is introduced to two stimuli: the rumbling wail of the train and the stress hormones from the mother. Consequently when the baby is born it will now react to the rumbling or wailing a train. The hormonal effect has been taken away and thus the infant has been conditioned to fear trains.

Apparently, according to my book, stress can play a negative role in fetal development.

That is how I imagine it. What do you think?


--------------------
TRUMP 2020


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: XUL]
    #18946719 - 10/07/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Apparently, according to my book, stress can play a negative role in fetal development.

That is how I imagine it. What do you think?




sure-- BUT if the effect is rather that the child is "WARY" of trains and not "HATEFUL" of trains then it could be a positive outcome.  Because trains are dangerous.


--------------------




"Whales have deep thoughts"

:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

:peace:


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: travelleler]
    #18946747 - 10/07/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

travelleler said:
Quote:

Apparently, according to my book, stress can play a negative role in fetal development.

That is how I imagine it. What do you think?




sure-- BUT if the effect is rather that the child is "WARY" of trains and not "HATEFUL" of trains then it could be a positive outcome.  Because trains are dangerous.




I used the word fearful, but I know what you mean. One issue may be when the infant grows into a child and has to ride a train and has a negative reaction.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: XUL]
    #18946845 - 10/07/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Or they get a train set for christmas. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinehockeyplyr1057
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: travelleler]
    #18947986 - 10/08/13 02:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

travelleler said:
well---- conditioning has been proven effective over an over.  the whole Behaviorism thing morphed into an evil science weilding the power to construct impenetrable industrial complexes of super-human comprehension. 

everything we experience in the modern world is the result of conditioning via behaviorism + capitalism.  Pavlov's Dogs aside, what you are suggesting is communicating with an unborn child.  while possible it might take quite a bit of effort and several scenarios to envoke the response you intend... not to mention the moral consequences of such actions.

I believe it is possible IF consciousness exists within the womb--- however, that is a mighty big if.  Since the fetus and mother are joined as one entity you may need the mother to agree to a bit of gestalt... or Stanislovsky method, or EST type actions in order to create true fear hormones. 

in the end--- a child wary of trains may live a safer life but also may exhibit some latent manifestations of a trauma disorder.

that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Reading what I just wrote reminded me of a social experiment i heard about, and I forget the Doctor's name right now, but he basically met with a series of undergrad students and asked them to write a sincere essay about something very personal.  Then using negative reinforcement he completely shredded these people's ideas of emotion, told them how incredibly stupid their grief was and suggested that they really weren't cut out for the study they had devoted themselves to for so many years.  Years later on a follow up interveiw, many of the people had dropped out of school, suffered severe depression, even suicide, all as a direct result of the experiment. 

So be careful.  Reality is subjective... even yours.




Conditioning is not a new concept and is certainly not exclusive to the modern world and capitalism as you claim. It has been around since humans have existed.


--------------------
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. -Gandalf


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OfflineWithinity
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: hockeyplyr1057]
    #18948036 - 10/08/13 03:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That's true, all culture is essentially Conditioning the details may be changing though the fundamentals stay the same.

I interpret what Travellor is saying as, that certain ways of being Conditioned fit the requirements of Capitalism better than others and their seems to be more of a general Conditioning going around these days with people from all over have access to similar information via mediums such as the Internet. Though in reality its a bigger than the forms of media we share in common, more places are selling out parts of their culture and adapting to ideals of the West and Capitalism.

Opeth for the win.:rockon:


Edited by Withinity (10/08/13 03:21 AM)


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: Withinity]
    #18948317 - 10/08/13 06:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

It has been around since humans have existed.




Sure, but that doesn't mean that the term was contrived.

I think it is exclusive to the modern world because with the discovery of classical conditioning we have developed cognitive behavioral therapy, essentially ways to alleviate phobias.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020


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InvisibleAWS
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: XUL]
    #18948559 - 10/08/13 08:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
Could you condition a fetus in the womb of a mother to fear trains. That is, when the baby is born into infancy could would it fear trains based on the classical conditioning you performed during fetal development?

Could a history or fear of trains result in negative behaviors during infancy? Could the behaviors continue further into adolescence?

Why, how?



I think yes. I will give an explanation later.




Train noises and electroshock.


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: AWS]
    #18950195 - 10/08/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Conditioning is not a new concept and is certainly not exclusive to the modern world and capitalism as you claim. It has been around since humans have existed.




indeed, I only used those examples to illustrate JUST HOW EFFECTIVE conditioning really is.

eshew obfuscation


--------------------




"Whales have deep thoughts"

:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

:peace:


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: AWS]
    #18951510 - 10/08/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AWS said:
Quote:

XUL said:
Could you condition a fetus in the womb of a mother to fear trains. That is, when the baby is born into infancy could would it fear trains based on the classical conditioning you performed during fetal development?

Could a history or fear of trains result in negative behaviors during infancy? Could the behaviors continue further into adolescence?

Why, how?



I think yes. I will give an explanation later.




Train noises and electroshock.




Hahaha. Of course in the laboratory setting!

But that is a question of ethics.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Classical Conditioning [Re: XUL]
    #18951816 - 10/08/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------




"Whales have deep thoughts"

:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

:peace:


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